Play Date Shocker.....

probably if people came to my house they would be also shocked! It can get pretty dirty and messy sometimes, I have 2 small kids and my husband doesn't lift a finger to help - she is probably exhuasted.

I have a different perspective on this. I was a child raised in a filthy house. My dad was useless and my mom was just completely overwhelmed with raising 5 kids and having no money. She rarely cleaned the house, and she is a collector of clutter, if you know what I mean. She never threw anything away. I was always embarrassed to have friends over. However, it would have been a HUGE boost to my self esteem to have a few friends that didn't judge me on the way my house looked. Believe me, I had too many "friends" that, once they saw my house, were no longer my friends. That hurts more than you know. So I would say, let go of your pride and be friends with this family and don't judge them. You don't really know the whole situation. Maybe if you got to know them more, you would become really good friends. You never know until you try.

Yeah it is not a good idea to judge. I am a firm believer in the saying, You may know where you have been in life but you don't know where you are going. Things dont always turn out as we plan them to sometimes. Maybe she just has a bad break or is really going through something. If you want to befriend her simply to be her friend then do so. Maybe being around you will encourage her to become a better housekeeper and mother. If you feel like she will just a problem or basket case, find a new friend. People regardless of their situation need genuine friends not someonne who only feels sorry for them.

That answer is up to you.....however
Until you walk the shoes of having 3 kids in your household you'll never understand what she is going through. True, it sounds as though her children need some good discipline, but you'll never understand until you have 3 kids how hard it is to keep a house clean. Maybe some women are better at it than others, but I believe it to be a difficult task and I only have 2. Especially if your not sure how much her husband helps or contributes. (and I have a husband who helps) If your uncomfortable with her house, I suggest meeting her at outdoor activities also.

There are other alternatives. I saw that one poster suggested outdoors, zoos, etc. (eeuw, there's dirt and smells there, too ick ick, but somehow we don't mind that but really- I know what you mean. But there is an old saying, sort of like this, and the end result is: go away cobwebs, go away dust, I'm rocking my baby and babies don't last. Perhaps the mother is simply living in the now with her children. There is plenty of time when they grow up for all the moms who think this is forever, it is not, there is plenty of time to clean and go to clean houses and everyone's standards are different. Now about the filth, if it is truly that bad, you gently let her know you could help her clean or watch her children while she does it. The throwing toys by the boys, in that case I myself have done some yelling at them in these situations and let the mother/father know that I didn't want to tread on their authority but I felt it was necessary. You are definitely doing a future service to her by doing that. Schools do not accept throwing and tossing of things. Do not give up a friendship over the way someone else lives. My husband comes from a different country and what you and I might find dirty and uncomfortable they think they are living like kings, so enjoy your differences.

I would be her friend if you truly feel something for the mom, not just feeling sorry for her. Yes it is very difficult to have 3 kids and keep your house clean, maybe its not even a priority for her. But just hanging out with you probably wouldn't be enough to change her habits. If your daughter likes her daughter then definitely keep up with playdates, just do them at your house or neutral places.

Her boys sound out of control, if she doesn't say anything to them then it sounds like she has some parenting issues. Again, I don't know if you could change that, she would have to want to change. Maybe she's perfectly happy, some people don't see a problem with rambunctious boys that don't behave. But I would definitely not want my children around them either, they will just pick up bad habits.

So don't try to be her friend to try to "fix" her, unless she reaches out for help. Otherwise you'll just be really frustrated because some people don't change.

Yes, I have had this happen & I was even more taken aback when my daughter who does not like cleaning at all chose this particular time to lecture her friend on how dirty her room was & proceeded to let her know that she would help her clean it this time but that she was going to have to do a better job in the future!!!! The mom busted out laughing & suggested i bring my daughter by weekly to help clean her daughter's room! LOL. I am friends with her & we just usually do playdates in public areas or at my house. If she invites me over, we go, eventhough it is not ideal. I think the benefits of the friendship is more important to me at this point. Best of luck to you and know that I just keep saying to myself that the house isn't being cleaned cuz she is choosing to spend that time reading & playing with her kids! :) That said, I look at my house & imagine others would believe that my kids get no attention at all, which isn't true, but it is so easy to judge.......

Be her friend. It sounds like she may need one. You don't know what underlying situations there are that kept her from having a tidy house or dealing with her kids; but maybe your friendship, influence, and assistance can help her move in the right direction. Invite her over to your house and be willing to talk and listen. She may open up or even ask for suggestions.

At the same time, don't look at the friendship as "unequal." Sure, there are plenty of things she seems to lack that you can help her with. But there may also be some hidden treasures where she can bless your life as well. If you go into it with the idea of superiority/not equal friendship you will miss those things. She may also sense the attitude (even if you never say anything about it) which can damage any friendship. Look at her as equal, even if not the same.

Boys sometimes have a lot more energy than girls. Seeing boys play can be a shocker to the mom of a calm girl. Moms of boys are used to the energy and your new friend is probably used to the energy that her boys have.

Is your friend's house really filthy or is it just cluttered from the toys ? There's a difference between dirt and clutter. I can imagine that with 2 boys that young and that close in age there may be toys all over the house. And think about it - with 3 small kids - there isn't much time to take care of the house.

If it really does bother you, have more play dates are your house.

hi
Don't confuse poverty with out right sloppiness and filth.. there are plenty of well do to people who live like major slobs.. with that said,it's a tough call.. however, I wouldn't want my child playing at another kid's home where it is a complete MESS.. in which case, I would suggest playdates at your home OR in a neutral place like say a park... Personally, I , myself would find it hard to sit still in a messy place like that.... Additionally, with kids throwing toys at you and the mom not stopping them.. another reason I wouldn't go over there...... I always tell my child, GOOD manners are NEVER out of season.... sounds to me like the boys could use a little discipline. until then, why expose you or your little one to that kind of behavior.... Again, find a neutral spot and meet there... problem resolved..

I think that playdates are fine, you can go to parks, or your house if the girls like to play together. But only befriend the mom if you are doing it for the right reason. If she is a nice person (that just happens to be a slob), and you enjoy hanging out with her, great. If you are doing it out of a charity case or trying to change her, do the playdates, and that is all.

I agree with Riannon, that maybe her life was crazy that week. Or, another possibility is that she's given up. And maybe the reason she gave up is because her life is so rotten right now. And that means she needs a friend.

I'm sure I'm thinking of that because I've been in that situation. Just a few years ago, I was so down and depressed because of my life situation that I could see myself ending up like this woman. My two little kids were sort of on their own for much of the day, watching tv and playing computer games as I read "escape" novels. Instead of drinking, like some people would, I read books about other peoples' lives, so I didn't have to think about my own. My husband was struggling with a mental illness that made him emotionally abusive to all of us, and he also got violent (although he never hit us). We'd just moved, so I had no friends. We were renting a tiny duplex until our house sold so we could buy a new one, and it was uber-stressful. We had boxes piled up to the ceiling, having moved from a big house to a tiny rental. I got to the point where I thought, "why bother" about everything.

My husband still struggles some days, and although he's been to counseling and is doing MUCH MUCH better, my life is still stressful. I still feel a bit depressed. But what would have helped me then and now is a friend! A really good friend who I could spill my guts to would have been awesome. I had those, but they all lived out of state. But I also needed friends who I could talk to about everyday things and NOT talk about my problems with. They would have taken my mind off of them and helped me feel some joy again.

I think you should give her a shot. Just knowing that someone likes you and wants to do something with you can give you enough of a boost to start trying again. To wipe off that grimy kitchen table you didn't care about yesterday. To have more patience with your kids, so you actually engage their attention instead of just letting them bounce off the walls. And the best part is, she does'nt have to be your "project." Just the regular kind of friend to give her some happy times and help her feel like life isn't so horrible after all.

Find a way around meeting at her house. Do playdates at your house, like you suggested, or plan to meet at a park. I did that with one of my best friends, because when her kids came to my house, they trashed it (there were just too many kids all together!). So when she needed me to babysit once, I offered to watch them at the park and have a picnic. It was perfect!

Anyway, you will probably be doing the little girl a favor, too, by giving her a place where she can shine away from the chaos of her brothers. And the mom a place where she can shine away from the chaos of her regular life. It sounds like she's an enjoyable person. And if she turns out not to be, you can pull away and just let your daughters be friends.

you know, it's a difficult situation. i feel for all of them, but i have to think mom is overwhelmed and she is just trying to get by. my nephew is something like what you described. their house is not in disarray but his behavior is, and i don't think it's poor parenting more than trying to 'survive' the situation. my nephew throws things, slams the door you name it, hits adults, pushes etc. i have talked to the parents, but to no avail. so since it is important for me to have a relationship with them i bite my tongue. and that is that. you don't have a family connection to this woman but if you like her, like hanging out with her, and your daughter is friends with the little girls, then just ignore...or try to ignore the surroundings.

ok, I can over look dirt and clutter, my problem is with the lack of discipline, I met several people but never kept up playdates because of rambucious older siblings. I just wasn't comfortable with my son picking up crazy behaviors from older siblings. now that he is older, i can see that at certain times my own son's "energy level" can be high. So i guess i'm saying sometimes as your child matures you find that you can understand better the struggles someone with older children faces. no that it would ever be ok to hit guests, but maybe the noise level will be higher thanyou like it but you let it go because you've already fought over getting dressed dand eating breakfast. Maybe i'm not saying that right.
do what feels right for your daughter but don't befriend this mom out of pity or to try to change her.

wow. what a situation. first off, there's nothing wrong with your little girl experiencing anothers difficulties, it'll make her, eventaully, appreciate what she has, and help her be well-adjusted, as in, comfortable with people from all walks of life. and maybe mom needs a friend like you who can be friendly and supportive. and maybe her husband is NO help at home, obviously it doesn't appear that the kids would help out either. I'm not saying the kids should be responsible for all the cleaning but they should definately chip in some.
and how many children do you have? besides your little girl? it's difficult to keep a home spotless with three children. and if mom is working and taking care of the home, with little or no help, she must be having a hard time.
so, a, maybe be a little supportive, have her over to your home for coffee once in a while and let the kids play, tell her you've found such-and-such really helpful for organizing and maintaining your home. and b, let her know what's been useful for discipling your child/children.
you don't have to be her best friend, but for whatever reason, it seems like this mom wants and needs your support, so be gaurded, but genuine and supportive. and if she's in a really bad situation, there's always help for women out there. think on it, good luck

i have to slightly disagree with some of the posts - i don't think it's a "boy" thing. throwing toys at a guest? not okay. but the thing is your daughter is friends with the little girl, not the boys. you can have plenty of playdates, now that the weather is warmer, at parks, at the zoo, and yes, at your house. "if" you feel the need to bring up the (permanent) change of scenery, you could nicely tell the mom that your daughter was a little scared of the boys and uncomfortable around the noise and chaos. of course you don't want to judge. and yes, she's probably overwhelmed especially if she has a quiet, timid personality. she probably has no idea how to deal with it and get her house and her kids back on track. but it's not really your place to step in. maybe if you befriend her and she feels more comfortable with you, she will reach out. i wouldn't expose my child to that environment, and that is my first priority.

I'd have her daughter to your house.

My grandmother always used to say "It's not a sin to be poor, but soap and water don't cost THAT much!"

Poverty and FILTH are totally different issues.

Would you want someone to be your friend because they wanted to take on a charity case?? That doesn't sound like you could truely be a friend to her if you would judge her. Let the kids play at school but leave it at that.

I don't think it would hurt to befriend her -- just don't get your hopes too high about being able to change the situation. If your little girls get along, it will be nice for the other little girl to be able to go to your house and experience some normalcy.

As far as leaving your child at her house -- obviously at 3 you won't want to leave her there. My kids have had a couple of friends with dubious homes, and I would let them go there, but they were much older.

p.s. If the house is that dirty, the mother probably has some kind of OCD issue, and it's fine to always have the play dates at your house. It sounds like the mother won't ask why, and if she does you can just say you're more comfortable with it that way.

I would say I do not keep that great of a house, but if I have people over I make sure that things are clean. Also, clutter is one thing and filth is another. If someone has a cluttered house it's way different then dirt everywhere. I don't know, maybe some people are raised so differently they just don't know better. Like I said, no one comes to my house unless I make it decent. I surely hope that when you went there that was not her "decent".

Wow I guess you've never had a bad day when things spin out of controll and the house doesn't get clean. By all means leave this woman alone she seems happy in her life and is better off without you, your white gloves and perfect parenting ability.

I'd stick to the golden rule of "surrounding yourself with like-minded people." I personally would not nix a friendship but I would keep it at arms length for safety and health reasons.

Just some things to think about:

Is it possible the house isn't always that horribly messy? I know occasionally when I have a major event or an insanely busy week I end up with almost no time to clean and am embarrassed when people come over.

Also, perhaps she does try to discipline her sons but didn't want to when you were there.

In the end, I would trust your instincts. If the mother seems like a genuinely nice person who is perhaps just struggling with her life a little right now, then I'd try to be at least somewhat of a friend. If the problems run deeper (mom is a head case who ignores her kids) I'd try to keep my family away.

The only thing I keep coming back to is....*she* invited you to *her* house. She asked you over. Apparently the way she runs thing is different than you. If she were embarrassed you wouldn't never been able to set foot in there.GL in your decision!

try play dates at your house only, she may be relieved to be free of an extra child for a few hours? I would also suggest leading by example, showing your home at it's cleanest, if you become friends, perhaps she is overwhelmed and you could offer to either keep all three at the park for a few hours while she cleans, or help her clean, or suggest the mothers day out at churches.

other than that there is meetup.com, which provides all types of groups everywhere, but i found mom groups and play dates, and mom friends in my area. you could try their for friends for the both of you or you could create one via this site and see who is interested if there are none in your area already.

I tend to agree with everyone that says you should be her friend IF you can do so without feeling like you are going to fix her. She doesn't need pity or judgement, she sounds like she just needs a real friend.

I have a hard time being around kids who behave differently than mine, and everybody judges, no matter how hard you try not to. I would also be put off by holes in the wall and screaming kids, so I understand your feelings. But I try to remember to stop and remind myself that I don't know her situation. You might get a chance to know it if you give a real friendship with her a shot. But it is not fair to her to go into a friendship with the idea that you are taking on a problem case.

You are a lot like my mother, I am positive if there is a needy person or someone with huge issues my mom will be right there for them - and I mean ALL IN! That being said, I am going to tell you what I tell my mother. You will always run into charity cases or people who seem to really NEED you. As a favor to yourself first you need to really establish if you like this woman or not. I know it sounds trivial but why hang if it is not your type of person (you somehow need to keep the dirt thing out of it for this decision). If you like her and her daughter likes her daughter then I say move forward with a friendship.

That being said, in regards to the dirt thing. I am like you, I do not want my children around that filth let alone the crazy kids out there to teach them bad habits. If I were in your shoes, set up times and places that do not include her house. Go to the park, kids events around town, your house, etc. This does not mean you won't end up at her house at all, just have some reason that you cannot stay long so the exposure is short. I would also keep you time limited and in doses. You are the type of person that will take on this woman's problems to try to fix it for her. DON'T DO IT. Just be nice and realize, this is her problem, not yours, if she starts to draw you in just pull back a bit. Just enjoy your time, and stay out of it.

Hope this makes sense and it is probably easier said than done but give it a try. The important thing is you do things for you and your kids. This woman has a deep rooted problem you cannot fix, as human beings we were blessed with the ability to choose who we hang with and what we decide to take on. Pick your battles. = )

Good luck!

P.S. I hope you take this for what it is, I am not telling you to not help this woman at all, just keep it in perspective. There really is not a whole lot you can do. Just be that person she can enjoy (like Calgon take me away). This will help her more than you know.

Well I dont know if this new friend is married or not, but sometimes if the spouse is a bit of a bully they can create this kind of problem. also this friend may not know any better, or she could just be so overwelmed that she has gotten a little depressed. either way she may really need your friendship. maybe you could have them to your house and then she can see what a good place to live is like. when you do this you could maybe see if she needs a little help.