Odd

Call Cheryl Steinberg - she is an expert in helping parents deal with ODD children! She has given me great ideas for my son, including changes in diet, that have made a huge difference. Contact her at ____@____.com

My son also has ODD, he is now 15 years old and this is not something they grow out of so starting now to deal with it is key. God gave you this child with a special need because he knows you can handle it so be strong and take this advice with an open mind and consider it your challenge of a lifetime. I suggest you first get your mind set that your life needs to change in a dramatic way, sorry but this is the reality. First set out the rules and consequences, and remember all consequences have to be more than what you think is normal and gear them for your child (my son when younger was no watching tv or playing legos for a whole day). The rules also need to be for all the children in the household, consequences can be modified though (I had two others to accomadate for age). Now for the hard part, there is not just consistenty needed, it needs to be unemotional,no questions asked, no debating, no aurguing, very black and white. ODD doesn't do well with gray, if there is any gray they have room to argue and will fight for what they want. Sounds hard core and cold but it's the way they learn the best, everyone has different learning styles and this is their way. After a while things will get better, it will just be expected that this is the way it is but they will still test, just like a 2 year old, and they dont change their ways of malipulation. Over time rules need to change and consequences get more severe. Following through with the consequence is also more than important, they will try to get out of it, I have as my son got older let him makes deals with me such as 5 jobs done around the house you can get TV back etc.. but only when he knew that I was going to stick to the punishment no matter what. I dont have 100% faith in couseling but as one tool it does help, it reinforces what your teaching at home, and when they see that more than just their family is talking the same thing it does help. Another tool I used was medication, I am not a doctor or know your daughter so I would never suggest a certain one but see your doctor and no I dont mean your family doctor, an ODD specilist, someone that will understand her problems. Use whatever tools it takes and not just one, a combination usually works best. Dont worry about the labeling thing at school either, other kids dont know about labels at her age and if it gets her the help she needs than do it, doesn't mean she will go to a special class, maybe just a regular class with accomadations. My son did end up in a emtionally impaired class for 2 & 3 grade but now is in middle in all regular classes (he was never behind educationally) but has accomadations of a social worker when he needs it, the opportunity to go to the office to calm down before he does anything stupid and a few others to help his other issues. This may also seem harsh but I got training on how to do takedowns and we only used them in case of absolute nessisity but they work. It gives the body and mind time to catch up with each other without having them or anyone around them get hurt. My son learned very quickly that I was not only very serious but that he needed it. If you would like to set up a time to meet or interested in having a support system I would be happy join. Having a support system is key, you have to have a venue to not just support but to vent, have someone that knows what it feels like to listen. Take good care of yourself, you need to be ready at anytime for anything to happen and be ready to do what you have to do 150% no matter what.

There is a 20/20 episode that deals with ODD, it aired I'd say the last part of Aug. early Sept 09. You can go to ABC and watch, they interview the Yale Conduct Team Therapists, during the episode while showing different families and their struggles with their children. I found the episode helpful,I work with children and parents.

Hi J.---I'm a little behind on my mammapedia emails. Hope you are hanging in there.

I also want to suggest that you look at your daughters diet as a possible contribution to her 'disorder'. I am taking a series of wellness classes, taught by a naturopath who has her PhD in Nutrition. The proper function of our bodies, on all levels, is very much dependent on the food that we eat. So there are a couple of things to look at.
1-How much processed foods does she eat, compared to fresh fruits and veggies? Processed foods contain NUMEROUS additives, any of which might cause problems, the combination of them most likely do, in those people who are vulnerable.
2-An 'optimal' diet is mostly plant based: raw,fresh fruits and veggies, whole grains, legumes, nuts and seeds. Organic is best, particularly since your daughter is having health problems, but, it is better to get non-organic than none at all. Go to www.ewg.org/www.foodnews.org to find a list of fruits and veggies and how they rank in order of pesticide exposure. For example, #1 food to buy organic is peaches, followed by apples, bell peppers and celery. These foods require a greater level of pesticide application, or their outer surfaces hold on to the pesticides. The cleanest 3 on their list of 100 are cabbage, broccoli and eggplant. There are also lists of cosmetics, sunscreens, etc.

Eliminating additives from food and things like cleaning products and shampoos will reduce the challenges to her body and you are likely to see behavioral changes. Then, when she eats health supporting foods, over time, chemical imbalances in the brain, and elsewhere in the body, may start to improve But no amount of behavioral changes can be effective until her diet is no longer challenging her health.

There is so much more I could share, but it's really hard to explain it properly in a forum like this. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I can share my resources with you. I'm sure it can't hurt, and more knowledge never hurts in trying to improve a situation. I look forward to hearing from you. Good luck, and be strong for that beautiful daughter of yours. D. ###-###-####

Have you considered trying a dietary approach? I'm not one of those moms who is trying to push alternative medicines on you (and I'm definitely not out to sell anything) but you seem at your wits end. I've read a little on ODD and it shares many symptoms with ADHD. Many kids with these kinds of behavioral symptoms seem to really respond well to removing things like wheat and dairy from their diets along with all foods with artificial coloring and flavoring. I read a book on it that explained it really well in layman's terms. It's called Healing the New Childhood Epidemics: Autism, ADHD, Asthma, and Allergies by Dr. Kenneth Bock. My newphew has responded amazingly to this kind of approach. This approach aims to treat the symptoms rather than the disorder. And people that have used it find that getting rid of the symptoms often improves their kids' behavior. My nephew was acting out partially because his little body couldn't process wheat and dairy properly and it was making him feel sick. My sister in law changed his diet probably 4 or so years ago now and she's slowly able to start integrating small bits of wheat back into his diet as he gets older. Anyway, just something to think about.

Relationship is your best tool with ODD. I grew up with a sibling labeled ODD, have a niece with ODD, and as an adult have a close friend that works primarily with troubled teens, many with this diagnosis. I have witnessed an amazing number of attempts at behavioral approaches - all the charts, rewards, stickers, etc. But consequences don't work well with ODD kids and it isn't a matter of just teaching it - they just operate differently. My friend swears that the only real successes she has seen involve relationship building - it is hands down the best way with ODD kids. As exhausting as it might be to have your daughter need someone all of the time, this is probably a sign that she is truly motivated to have some sort of connection with people - and that is REALLY GOOD!!! Not that you throw consequences out, just don't dominate the situation with them. Focus on building her self esteem, and giving lots of positive attention for PROCESS not RESULT. What basic skills does she need to get through her day? Focus on rewarding her effort towards this with lots of pride, love, and positive attention. Removal of attention is going to be more effective as a negative response than anger, or anything intense. With that said, make sure she knows your home and family are always safe, that you always love her no matter what - you just may not like her choices, because you are worried that they will bring her or others pain, suffering, risk, etc. Set aside times that are all about her every day - enlist family if needed so you don't overextend yourself. Just listen to her, do what she wants, let her find some security and in time she will be able to settle down and get a little less antagonist. Equally important is to set aside time for yourself. You need to lead by example that you take your space when needed, and set appropriate boundaries to take care of yourself and have healthy relationships. In prep for your time, you may need to help her plan some things to do, and work on building the skills she needs to play independently. You may find some helpful tools in Love and Logic, but with an ODD kid you need to always keep the connection between you and your relationship at the forefront over anything behavioral. L&L has some good ideas at handing over the control to the child, something else that is REALLY important for an ODD kid. Kids with this issue (also aspergers, adhd, and others) are in a world that feels pretty out of control to them a lot of the time, and their constant grab for control of every situation is an expression of their need just to get things to settle down and be manageable - not that they are naughty. Kind of akin to a person with motion sickness handling the car ride better if they are driving, does that make sense? Relationships can also be their downfall as teens, this can be one of the scariest times for a parent of an ODD child, and one of the most dangerous times in their lives. Working on relationships now will set you up to get her through that rough time in a healthy, safe way - it is really great that you have the diagnosis this early, and so much time to work with her! There are therapists out there that focus on relationship building, if you want someone to help you, that should be their primary tactic. From there you will just work together on finding what her individual needs are. I hope those are some helpful ideas. You can do this!!! You have already put so much effort into helping your daughter, obviously you love her and have the drive and ability to help her succeed in life. She is VERY LUCKY TO HAVE YOU!!!

When my son was 7, we went through similar issues. We spent all of our energy as a family working through it. Structure, and a somewhat strict schedule helped us so much. Lots of patience, and reminding yourself that they will get through this helps. We did a lot of explaining feelings, ours, and what others may feel when he behaves that way. We did get help through the school system, and they saved our family. My husband did not want our son "labeled" either, but is so thankful that we have gone this route, and our son gets the support at home and at school that he needs. He is almost 11 now - an is doing amazing. I wish you the best of luck.

When my daughter, now 30 and disfunctional, was diagnosed with ODD it couldn't be diagnosed until age 13. She had had behavior problems all throughout elementary school. I looked it up to see how it had changed and found a good website. Therapy is essential for the whole family. Using something like Love and Logic may be a good discipline strategy too. We use it with my grandkids we are raising. We took the classes at the local Mental Health Facility.

http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/children_...

I agree w/ Christy. Try giving her what she needs, even if it is exhausting. Save the punishments and battles as you may be over-reacting to things as you could be over-whelmed by everything as it is.
I would even go so far as to recommend you join a support group (if any) with other parents that are in your situation. This way, you all can bond together and help each other out.
Be patient with her... Does she even realize why she is the way she is? Try walking a mile in her shoes today and see what she feels like. Sometimes that is the best way to put things into a parents perspective. (or anyone's for that matter.)

Gosh, I am sooo sorry! That sounds very challenging. :-( If you haven't already, search the Internet for info on odd. Maybe trying a favorite Disney movie she can switch her focus to would give you and hubby an hour breather. Perhaps taking away a favorite toy etc until she sits to actually watch it and then giving it back? I wish I could be of more help, but I give you my full support! You are a very strong mom and I'm sure you'll figure out something!!! :-)

Julie, My heart goes out to you...that sounds very difficult...for all of you.

What have your doctors told you about the relationship between behavior and allergies? between behavior and diet? Are you finding any connection?

I felt miserable with my allergies and couldn't even think. My son had difficulty staying focus and was very angry. Then I found that he and I both need some nutrients that have made a tremendous improvement for us.

I would be happy to share the information I've gathered if you think it will benefit you and your daughter.

warmly,
M.

We need a support group! I have the same issue with my son, and like you I've tried EVERYTHING. I'm interested in what others post. I love my son but some days I just want to cry and run away.

I know it's taboo and I'll probably get a lot of flack for mentioning it, but have you tried medication? We just put our son on Adderall 2 months ago and our lives are totally changed. It's not a perfect solution and there are some days that are still a challenge, but the medicine seems to give him the ability to stop and think about what he's doing before he does it. My son has ADHD combined and an accompanying anxiety disorder. It quite often rears it's head in a similar manner as ODD. He still has high anxiety, but we are able to console him within minutes, where before it would take hours to console him if he lost control. I'm not saying you should take this lightly, we talked about it and tried other therapies for over 2 years before deciding on medication. This past week, for the first time, we got an email from his teacher saying what a fantastic week he had. He did not have a single disciplinary problem.

Just an idea. What works for one does not work for another.

I haven't read all the other responses, and I am not an expert on ODD. But my son (3 1/2) has had some behavior issues, too, partly due to a sensory integration problem. 123 Magic worked with him at first, but then we found Love and Logic and it works really well. It puts the problem back on the child to deal with and also gives you techniques for making THEM do the thinking. My son has responded very well and it has helped me feel more calm and in control, because even if he is acting up, I KNOW what I am doing and why.

Love and Logic does address different age groups. We went to a free class at our local elementary school (teachers are learning it, too), but then I bought some of the CDs and listen to them in the car while commuting. We've been doing this for over 6 months and when I need a refresher I just pull out a CD. I always find a new perspective or tip. Just an idea.

Also, my son's teacher asked what we did at home to get him to participate, or clean up, or transition between activities, etc. I gave her my best Love & Logic tools that were working with him at the time, and things are better at school now, too. The consistency has helped all of us.

My son always wants us to participate with him, too. He is an only child and we both work, so he goes to school / day care 5 days a week and we think it's probably just that he wants quality time with us. One thing we do is have him help with what we are doing, at least some of the time. Then we can take turns and play what he wants to play for a while. It teaches them respect for others, and taking turns is probably something she understands? It also begins to train them to start having their own chores around the house, and understanding that life isn't all play.

You probably have already thought of this, but some quality time and 100% of your attention for a defined period of time might give her back some of the "control" and make her less demanding at other times. That is a Love & Logic idea, too. Give them lots of choices (aka control) at times when it doesn't matter so much, about things that don't cause a problem (e.g. should we have peas for dinner, or carrots? Do you think we should cook them on the stove or the microwave? Should I put butter on them before I bring them to the table, or should we each do our own butter at the table (we use spray butter)?). The idea is that they feel in control, and then when you need to make a choice, you can remind them that normally you give them a lot of choices, and this time it is your turn to make the choice.

Good luck!

My son had ODD. Have you tried Heather Forbes "Beyond Consequences"? That is the ONLY method that has worked for us. The basic premise is that all negative behavior stems from fear, and you as the parent must remain "in the moment" with the child. I will not say that it is easy, because I know how frustrating it can be, but it really does work. She has a website, phone coaching, books, cds, etc. You must also take good care of yourself, and remember to breathe. Respond, but don't react. Best of luck to you.