New to Site... Seeking Advice

So, she has mistreated him for OVER 18 years? That means that his son is of legal age now? If that is the case, then why the hell does he have to have anything to do with her at this point? If you all cannot afford to lose the car entirely or replace/fix any damage she does on it or with it, loaning her the car seems like a bad idea....

Well, it truly sounds like you have a compassionate wonderful man. Sounds like he sees the possibility in every person. I bet you love that about him except when it comes to the ex....

I'd really just drop this. I know it's going to be hard, really hard, but he's going to have to live with his choices and he may just be incapable of not helping someone in need.

Sit down and just talk with him, stop talking and listen to him. His beliefs about why he's helping her, why he gives so much to others, just listen.

Just because he has a child with this woman she is not allowed to mis-treat or use him. She is a big girl now and needs to stand on her own two feet. He is not a bank, a babysitter, or a rescue mission, he is the father of her son. His only obligation to her is to help raise the child and pay child support -- that is it.
I recommend HE join al-anon. Al-anon is for the families of a substance abuser. They develop tools to deal with a substance abuser without enabling or being used. The hardest thing to do is to step away and let a substance abuser deal with their own issues.
There are charities such as the Salvation Army and Catholic Charties who will help with car repairs for low income people. On Monday make a few calls and find out which charties in your area do this and then write out a list and give it to her. Tell her to call around and get help. She may also be able to get bus passes from the same charties to use until her car is fixed.

First point in dealing with a substance abuser ----NEVER GIVE THEM MONEY---- NEVER!!!! No matter what they say they need. If they are hungry buy them a meal and direct them to a food bank. When you give an addict money no matter what they say they will use it for chances are they are buying their drug of choice.

I have been there done that and I learned the hard way.

I had a discussion with my insurance agent a while ago about lending out vehicles to people (we have a van & truck with towing & trailer). What I was told was surprising - if anything happens when someone else is driving our vehicle, it goes on OUR insurance, even if that person has their own.

The damage to the vehicle, the damage to another vehicle, or property, injuries to the idiot driver we lent the vehicle to, injuries to other persons in an accident.

We were basically told flat out "don't do it". If someone needs a van or truck/trailer, do the work for them & charge them for your time/gas.

Same thing should apply here... it's nice to do favors for someone, but don't do it at the expense of your own financial security. A serious accident can easily exhaust the insurance limits, & then your own personal assets can be gone after, even if you weren't the ones driving.

My insurance agent admitted that the way vehicular insurance is set up in this country is nonsensical, but unfortunately, we can't change it by simply wishing it wasn't so.

In your situation, you & your husband should sit down & decide to either tell his ex to find her own alternative transportation, help support her (short term) with rides or busfare, or to straight out sell her the car, with transfer of title, ownership & insurance.

Because you are both married, this has serious implications on you & the children if anything were to happen while she was 'borrowing' the vehicle, & he needs to be responsible for his family now, as much as he wants to be the nice guy & help this woman out.

If necessary, call your insurance agent & verify what I have written above, & have them explain it to your husband.

Additionally, take the ex out of the picture when talking with your husband. First of all, it is clouding the picture & making him defensive against you. Secondly, it doesn't matter if she is an honor scout, fine upstanding citizen who has a perfect driving record & will assume responsibility for everything.

The insurance companies don't care, & they will go after YOU first. Even if she pays for damage, & any out of pocket expenses, your insurance will be hit, & you can have hiked rates, or even be dropped from coverage.

I'm assuming these are risks that you & your family cannot afford to take. A different means of helping his ex should be found.

Best of luck, T.

I would take it a step further. Tell him the repercussions of her getting into an accident and hurting someone else are too big a risk for you guys financially. Tell him instead of just letting her borrow the car to give it to her instead. That way she can buy the insurance on it (which doesn't sound like she can afford it) and when she gets into an accident, the insurance company & victims she hits cannot come after you. He needs to understand what can happen if she gets in an accident with the car being in your name, you could lose EVERYTHING and then some.

How about talking to the impartial third party-- a counselor--- if this is such a bone of contention between the two of you?

I agree with the assertions of others: no one can MAKE you feel a certain way. It sounds like you are angry, and I think that you have the right to be angry, but somehow the conversation has to move past that. My guess is that, despite how things have been, your husband *really* wants his kid to have a functional mom. He may be doing this a lot more for his kid than he is for HER. Maybe he holds himself accountable for picking such a disappointment to make a baby with and wants things to be better for his child's sake. Or maybe he doesn't want his kid to feel responsible/pressured by mom, so he's stepping in because he can manage this better? I don't know.... but if you find that this is a continual problem, maybe time to explore this part of your relationship a little deeper, so you can both have a chance to hear where the other is coming from.

The suggestion to just give her the car and put it in her name is actually a pretty sound one. If he's going to insist on her using it, I think her track record is speaking for itself and you do want a legal wall between she and you.

It sounds like you two are several years overdue for marriage counseling. You need to understand where he is coming from, and he needs to understand why he is choosing poorly and how to fix it.

I know people may hate it when I do this but I'm going to answer your question with a bunch of questions.

Is the car his car or is it a joint car that also has your name attached? If something does happen to the car who will pay for it? You? Him? Both of you? Is this the kind of decision that you would decide together if it were anyone else except for her? Or is this the type of decision he would typically make on his own except for the fact that it's her?

So your husband has a history of not listening to your advice about anything at all, not just his adult son's mother. Does it cause a fight every time he makes an independent decision that you disagree with? Does it cause a fight every time he makes an independent decision at all? Or is it only when the decision involves her?

I think maybe it's time to sit down together and establish some ground rules together. You've got to use a lot of "I" statements and let him know how you feel when he makes decisions regarding her and he doesn't include you in them. You've got to let him know how you feel when he makes unilateral decisions about anything and doesn't take your opinion or feelings into account, and you'd like to do these things as partners. It's got to be a conversation, though, and there will have to be compromise on both sides of this. Except you're both on the same side. You're married.

If I had to guess, I would say your husband is reflecting on the ways in which he contributed to the downfall of their marriage and the difficulties in his life, or else he is seeing that she is helpless. Once you love and marry someone, I believe it is very difficult, or at least very painful, to have so much hatred in your heart that you don't continue to show them kindness. It's the holidays, when people reflect on their own generosity and kindness, and it's the new year, when people vow to be better in the future.

The problem is you weren't there to know how things got the way they got. No one is 100% guilty for the downfall of a marriage - he had his faults, too. My neighbor was an alcoholic and her husband left her. From the outside, I know it looks like she was 100% in the wrong. But if I had had to be married to him, I would have been drinking, too. He's happily remarried now and has sole custody of their child. He's also become a kinder, more engaged husband and father than he was with her - I think he learned from that experience. She screwed up, big time, and yet I can't help but feel sorry for her.

Your husband's being a good guy. Why would you want the man you love to be anything less than that?

Ditto Jill K. and Nervy Girl. You two need a third party who is neutral and well-trained - you need to see a marriage counselor together. You ask that "someone impartial give me some helpful feedback" on here, but you need that feedback over time, from a professional, WITH your husband fully participating. If he refuses to go to marriage counseling -- and if he tends to make you the villain in his continuing enabling of his ex -- then he needs to know clearly that this could be a deal-breaker for you if he says he won't talk about this with you and a counselor.

He has no boundaries with this ex, and since she gets whatever she wants from him, she sure as heck doesn't want any boundaries set up. But you, not she, are his priority -- or you should be; you are not, right now. Whether he feels guilty for not staying with her, or feels guilty for not being with his kid enough years ago, or feels sorry for her -- he needs to find better ways to cope with that. He is choosing to keep a person in your JOINT life together who is seriously damaging your marriage, and he does not see what's happening. It's especially worrying that he turns you into the bad guy and the unsympathetic, mean second wife here. That is fundamentally unfair and indicates he is still manipulated by her.

She will remain in his life, and therefore in your life, until he wakes up and sees that he is now married to you and should put you first. He is going to claim he does put you first, if you ask, and that you are being unkind, etc. That's why you need a third party: He is not going to listen to YOU because the ex's drumbeat of guilt and demands is too loud for him. Some men will listen to a professional before they'll listen to their own spouses -- sad but true. Get to a counselor and not just for a session or two. He is tied up with the ex in very unhealthy ways and unless he sees it -- you are stuck with this emotional vampire in your life.

Someone who has made 18 years of mistakes does not deserve kindness.. seriously. I would have done as you. She's not going to change and it's too bad he can't see that you are supporting him in not burning your family. Who is to say the car will come back ir come back not wrecked? No thanks. He needs to chill and if he wants to help someone so bad, then help him find someone who actually needs it & deserves it,

Replace exwife with "mother" (my MIL) and I was in that situation.

They do it because they love them.

(Unless he'd give his car to a stranger, or his archenemy).

Not IN love... But honestly a filial kind of love. Be it actual family, friends, friends of family, ex-family. In the south we just said "kin", whether there's a blood or legal relationship or not.

She's his kin, through their son, and from years they were married.
Which creates an obligation for many people.
Even if they "know" better, and they're not being codependent/ unhealthy at all.

((Technically my ex is my kin the same way... Except that I've disowned him, and wouldn't spit on him if he were on fire. Which is the other side of the spectrum. Some people keep the kinship tie, others sever it.))

My rule of thumb was that if it affected me not at all, I stayed completely out of it. She put the man through the wringer... But that was his choice.
But when it DID conflict / he had to choose between taking care of his family, or taking care of his mother, then I took a stand.

I don't know if Id have made a thing about the car, or not,,as I don't know your situation. We had the car thing happen twice. Once it was no biggie, once it would have been a huge thing (If it had been damaged, sold, "stolen", etc.).

I'm sorry you're going through this. I think that this man must have been treated like this as a child by someone in his life, and is still trying to get approval and love. The ex is that person now.

You need to get him to go to counseling with you. You are not wrong to put your foot down. This is not about him being nice and trying to help someone. He has allowed and is allowing this woman to put a wedge between you and him as a married couple. This is wrong.

DON'T wish that you had just gone along with it. Enough is enough. Get him to a counselor and ask the counselor to help him learn to have boundaries outside of your marriage.

I'm so sorry. You are right, he doesn't need to be involved with his ex at all.
Her problems are her problems. They should not involve your family at all.
But unless He understands that, nothing is going to change.

I know you hate conflict between you. Nobody in their right mind likes to fight. But you did a good thing. You communicated your feelings. This effects you, too. No matter how you don't like it, it was a good thing.
In fact, you need to stick to your ground.

My H has a mom kind of like this ex. It took some horrible circumstances for him to see the way she uses people. He still wants to rescue her on occassion.But he knows how I feel about it. There have been times he's said, I'm not crazy enough to ruin my marriage over her. That's because he understands how I feel and he loves me and his family enough that he knows there would be consequences he can't live with. When you give your H a true picture, you are doing him a favor. Sometimes it hurts to be the bad guy in order for the right thing to happen. I get over it.

My mil and your H's ex sound a lot alike. Look at BPDfamily.com
It's a mental illness. It's not going to get better. The very best you can do is to set up boundaries. You can set up your own and maybe it will encourage your H to do so. They have a great board on there, too.

My H has learned to make suggestions for mil's problems without involving himself in the solution. That's not easy to do with your mom but it is very necessary in this situation. Your H has no such obligation to even listen to his ex's problems. Stop interacting with her.

Find a marriage counselor. Big churches have them for reduced cost. Let H know you are serious. He is crossing a line that he doesn't really want to cross.

I would say you tell him if she has a DUI in it, or an accident while she relapses, his insurance will be charged and rates could go way up or be dropped. I would say he should protect his own little family (you) and that if he wants to do something nice for someone else there are plenty of organzitions -not ex wives who need legitimate help. I would say if he TRULY wants to go there, that he gets her to show him her legitimate license, her own paid for insurance and that she returns the car with the same amount of gas in it. And get copies of everything. I would tell him that if she were to be under the influence while driving it then he will contact the police. And I would also mention should she be permitted to use the car that she have no passengers and that your husband better look inside and outside for any sorts of paraphanelia (illicit that is) that she or a friend could have left. The danger involved outweighs his kindness. She can take the bus. Sorry, we have been through a few of these things with relatives and I am not feeling very nice towards these users anymore.

I think you are right however I don't think this is a battle you can win. I would tell him he can do what he pleases but you strongly disagree and you just hope the consequences of helping her do not hurt your family.

What's next? Sympathy sex?

The bigger issue is he is trying to make you seem controlling. If he had any respect for you he wouldn't do that.

If she is a recovering addict, so she may sell the car. When someone has an addiction, it is not logical, nor even like the person themselves. She cannot be trusted with something that could be sold, because she can't even trust herself with those things. It's why she doesn't have anything. I would say no, because of those things. You are helping her change by not letting her take the car.

This is not about doing something nice for somebody. It's about boundaries and expectations. It's about patterns of behaviors and unhealthy dynamics between former intimate partners.

This is a case where I would insist on therapy. You need to feel validated and get it all off your chest without damaging your relationship. (You don't even need to say it all within his earshot, but you do need to say it.) He needs to hear from an unbiased third party. There are some things that he will not hear from you, and there is nothing that you can do about it. When it comes to this topic, you will always sound like the jealous and selfish wife who can't get over herself enough to see that there is enough room in his heart/soul/life to be kind to someone else, let alone his ex. He hears you trying to control him and tell him what to do, as if he doesn't have a working brain of his own.

He is being unreasonable. The most unreasonable thing that he is doing, though, is not being a partner with you. He's just making decisions based on his feelings and thoughts and not really bringing you into the decision-making process. You'd probably accept some of this if you felt that he was standing up to her and offering gifts from the two of you instead of just him. A man thinks that as long as you're getting what you want/need, then you shouldn't worry about what some other woman might be getting from him. (They use that to turn us against each other, saying that we're just jealous of each other. Completely out of context.) It's not taking away from you, right? He doesn't get that you want to feel like he is YOUR husband alone and that you are the only woman pulling his strings.

A therapist will say to each of you the things that you can't hear from each other right now. A therapist will also give you tools for talking to each other to hear and be heard.

Ten years is a long time to have dealt with this.

ETA: I agree with Riley J. that he sees her as his "kin". She is not family that he was born into but family that he sought out and created. That tends to make men feel responsible for the outcome, and there are women who know just how to work that little system. You don't like the idea of your man being manipulated, wrapped around some other woman's finger. You see it because you know how women operate and think. When I would point these things out to my husabnd reagrding his ex, her response would be an innocent "Who me? What'd I do? I'm just...." I wanted to punch her in her face because I knew exactly what she was doing. She would refuse to speak to me or be near me, and DH thought that that was a great idea, to keep us apart as much as possible. Bad idea, because she stayed in his head. She taught him to avoid her crazy fits by giving her what she wanted. His rationale was that it was good sense to avoid trouble. I was always calm and understanding, so he didn't worry about upsetting me. I get pissed just thinking about it, and I'm glad that those days seem to be over. I had to put my foot down and get a little crazy on my own.