So, an issue has come up within our extended family that my husband and I don't see eye to eye on. This happens frequently because we were raised very differently, and have had very different life experiences. For the most part we work it out, but this one is a bit different. I would like to get some outside perspectives on how you would deal with this scenario. I'm hoping some outside input might help us to see the issue a bit more clearly. I'll do my best to be as thorough as possible in explaining without giving too much away on where we each stand...
Approx. late 2004/early 2005 a family (mom, dad and 2 kids) who we are related to started into somewhat of a downward spiral. Prior to the decline the dad had worked outside the home full-time and mom stayed home with the kids. The spiral started when they sold their house and asked to move in with my husband (then boyfriend). The move was to allow them to save money so they could buy their dream house. Around the same time the dad's job was ending, there was an option to relocate with the job, but they elected not too. They were allowed to move in rent free, and it was clear immediately that they were not saving any money. (new cars, extravagant toys, etc). Dad's job ended and he began collecting unemployment. Things continued this way for a few years. Dad had one or 2 jobs, but they lasted maybe 3-6 months before he was fired from each. Each firing was "not his fault" and a tenor of "conspiracy theories" started to become evident. When my husband and I got married the family began renting the old house from us. A conflict arose between the dad and my husband while they were living in the house, and apparently to this day the dad has a serious grudge against my husband because of it. (We have learned of this from other family members, as we have little direct contact with this particular family). Eventually the family could no longer pay rent and moved from our old home and in with another family member. This happened probably in late 2007. They lived with the family member for maybe 6 months until Dad found a seasonal job. While dad was working they moved into a rental property. At the end of the season both he and mom found jobs working for the same company. Within 6-9 months the dad was again fired. Since that firing the family has been pursuing a law suit against the company because they believe there was a conspiracy to fire him. (Mom continues to work there, as does another family member) Since then, Dad has gotten more and more paranoid and has accused the other family member of being "in on" the conspiracy to fire him. (Dad was not asked back to the seasonal position the next year, i.e. fired again) After dad was fired the family again was at risk of losing their home, but managed to find a grounds keeper position which provided them with housing in exchange for grounds care. This continued for approx. a year, but the family was just recently fired. While working as grounds keeper dad was reported to have harassed individuals visiting the park because they were "spies" for the company he was suing. He was generally frightening (he's a large man), and I understand that his harassment of visitors and erratic behavior are the reasons they were fired. The family has now moved back in with the family member they lived with previously. Another family beef has arisen between the dad and another family member after she informed him that she would not help in his suit to sue the city for firing him from the grounds keeper position. (Again the firing was "not his fault" and it's all a conspiracy) He will not be in the same house with this family member, and recently spent an entire evening sitting in his car when we were all at the house where he is living for a baby shower.
That's the background info, here are the other facts that have come up in discussions between my husband and I:
Dad comes from a Christian upbringing, and believes that women should be subservient and the man is the clear head of the household. (Mom had previously declined to get a job because she believed it would "hurt dad's self-esteem")
Dad's owns firearms.
Dad spends his days playing war based internet video games. (probably 5-10 hours a day)
Dad is an extremely cold individual. He was at our home for Christmas last year and sat in silence on the sofa with his sun glasses on the entire evening. There are approx. 13 young children at family gatherings, so his stoic manner is very odd given the activity going on.
Dad does not have family locally.
The family member that the family is currently living with is VERY naive and cannot be trusted to help with questions like "where are the guns?" She is not ill-intended at all, but can't fathom how everyone in the world isn't well-meaning, honest and honorable. As a result, she has no filter when telling other what has been said about them. I imagine that any question about the guns would result in her saying to dad "A and B family members think you are unstable and shouldn't have guns, what do you think?"
My question is: Would you be comfortable spending time together with all the family if this individual is present? What if he is not present, but is aware of the location of the gathering? Would you be comfortable having this individual in your home?
Thanks for your perspective. Happily we live a couple hours drive from the center of this drama, but with the holidays approaching there are move and more requests coming into get together. My husband and I can't really agree on how to handle things.
K.
Thank you to everyone for your insightful comments. I think I have successfully gotten out of having to spend Thanksgiving with the family due to my husband's work schedule, so now I can work on Christmas. The "dad" is apparently applying for jobs, so I'm hoping that something comes up in the next month that might give them some much needed stability and encouragement before Christmas. While I'm not comfortable around "dad" in general, it was having to move in for the second time with my mother-in-law that has me really concerned. "Dad'" is married to my husband's sister. His family lives across the country and he has always had a very detached approach to my husband's family. It is clear that he does not want to be living in such close quarters with my MIL. The holidays are stressful to begin with, and I'm truly concerned about what he has the potential to do. Thank you again, so much.
K.
PS. Just to clarify, my remark that "dad" came from a Christian background wasn't intended to be a comment on Christianity at all. I'm sorry if that sounded inappropriate to anyone. It was meant to illustrate that dad's belief that he runs the family and has control over women is a core/fundamental belief to him that he apparently learned growing up. It seemed significant to me, as it seems that dad's who have a core belief that they must support their family, are the ones to lose it when they can't. Just another piece to the puzzle.
This person does not sound dangerous to me, and he is family. What he does sound is mentally ill. I do not know the depth of his conspiracy theories, but this type of thing can be common in Paranoid Personality Disorder, and in a more severe form, paranoid schizophrenia. He needs to be assessed by a professional. Both of these conditions can be treated with medication and therapy.
I'm afraid he may need to be evaluated by a mental health professional. These conspiracy theories and paranoia hint towards something like schizophrenia or at least bipolar.
How frustrating and scary for you. You asked for perspective, so this is what I will offer:
Think of how many times there are stories on the news about something awful happening, and once they dig into it, there were always signs and people watching think 'why did they think nothing would happen' or 'have could they have ignored these signs'. I'm all for just having to deal with family drama in certain instances. What you describe would not qualify in these circumstances.
I am a therapist, but I would not try to diagnose him just by your post- it's not what you asked for, and it's not appropriate. That said, from what you describe his odd behavior is increasing. I would definitely avoid this individual whenever possible- and it's always possible. And I understand you not wanting to stir up drama within the family. If you are ever around him and he seems unstable, I would consider making an anonymous call to the police. Seems harsh, but they will take him and if he is unstable, likely take him to be evaluated for up to 72 hours. This may be the only way he will be evaluated. Sounds extreme, but you don't want to confront him, and it sounds like other family members aren't willing to either. If people ask you why you aren't going to this or that, I would simply say you aren't comfortable around him. No gossip, no drama, just simply state why.
Good luck.
Mom, After this related family moved out of your rental property from then on their lives are really not your concern and I would stay out of thier business if I were you. Personally, I would also would not spend time with them. I'm sure you and your family can come up with some other plans over the holidays that will prevent you from seeing them, darn! It sounds like the man is suffering from some type of mental illness and needs help, the job losses may have brought on depression that has gotten worse. Hopefully someone in the family, ideally his wife, will steer the man to get the help he needs in couseling and with meds. Hope this helps
Well some of my answer you will like some you wont. Christian background does note equate to the man rules the house. I'm Catholic and I tell you I would not put up with that. The person is now not at your house and you should stay completely out of their lives at the new house. Not your business. As for family gatherings stay polite and coordial but thats it. If he is wearing sun glassses on inside the house and worries about conspiracy theories he is probably on drugs. Even more reason to stay away from the family and mind your business. Don't get yourself into gossip with other family members and put on a smile if you see him. Now if you feel that his kids are in danger then you have an obligation to call family services. As for the holiday gatherings I would forgo having any family gatherings in your house this year and I would limit the time at the other houses. Arrive late, leave early. Just say your tired and have a headache. If anything they will be more worried about your health. Again stay coordial to this individual and his family.
Hi K.,
I have a an unstable person in my family (and believe me, not nearly as unstable as the person you are describing) with whom I have no contact at all. The potential for even emotional danger--let alone physical danger--is just too great.
In regard to your naive relative, I hate to say it, but you are going to have to let her come to your own conclusions. This is hard, but not something that you can necessarily intervene in unless she specifically comes to you.
If it were me, I'd just send my regards to the people sending the invitation with a "Thanks, we have other plans" and stay out of it. It sounds as though YOU personally have an instinct/feeling that he is capable of acting out in a dangerous way, and I believe we all have that inner voice for a reason.
I'm wondering, do you have a therapist to speak to regarding this? I'm not saying you have a problem, but a neutral third party might be a good person to hear out both you and your husband's concerns. Me personally? I'd send my husband with no hard feelings but find other things to do with the kids during those times. I think Kade called it well, and can't add anything else.
I question this mans mental stability?? It sounds like he has issues. I've heard that in some states if three people make a claim about the persons mental status he can be forced (arrested) and taken to a mental institute for evaluation. I don't know how true that is but it might be worth looking into. Would I put my family in direct fire of this man??? NO!
hell no and he WOULD NOT BE IN MY HOUSE!
He sounds dangerous. You may want to think about calling the local police and telling them briefly that you have a family member that has mental problems and guns. If they aren't legal, maybe the police can do something. Oh, and, by the way, you don't have to be vague---we all know which side of this you're on! We're with you!
Well... I am pro-gun rights. That being said, it sounds like he is unsteable and therefore should not have access to guns. It sounds like he needs medical help - also not sure but I beleive that if you are found to be mentally unstable you can not possess a firearm.
Try to stay away from him as much as you are able - living a couple hours away should make it easier for you to stay univnolved.
I wouldnt' feel comfortable around this family-even if they were family! I don't like the usual family drama anyway and try not to get involved, but this sounds kinda scary.
~C.
A few questions.
Have you ever spoken to "Dad's" WIFE about any of this.
Does she seem to have a grasp of what's happening?
Regardless of his attitude about the man being head of the household,
do you think she is competent and aware of what's happening there?
Is "Dad" your husband's brother?
If so, does your husband feel some responsibility or obligation
because of their relationship?
Perhaps he is used to his brother since childhood
and therefore dismisses the negative behaviors
that you see as dangerous.
Will the only time you (your immediate nuclear family)
will be around "Dad" and his family be during the holidays,
at the home of mutual extended family?
If so, can you have some discrete conversations
with other extended family members.
You referred to your husband's family of origin
as being quite different from your own.
If their cultural/social behaviors and expectations
include denial/avoidance of discussion of problems, etc.,
is "Dad's" behavior/patterns swept under the rug
among other extended family members.
Are you (in effect) alone in your concerns
because you were raised with different attitudes
about openness and communication among family members?
Consider, perhaps, discussing this situation with a therapist
or social worker for some ideas/recommendations
of ways for you to take care of you and your immediate family members
during the holidays without creating a crisis situation.
Please let us know what happens.
This man sounds like he has a serious mental illness, either schizophrenia or delusional disorder. Not everybody with a mental illness is dangerous - in fact, only a small minority are - but still, I'd be nervous about his instability and gun ownership. I would stay away, frankly. I assume your husband doesn't want to avoid him. What are his reasons for that? It just seems like the man can't be trusted to be appropriate and safe around others.
This man is obviously mentally ill. The wife needs to step up and get him some care.
I may not "avoid" him at the holidays but I would minimize my time there. He is sick. And be vigilant when you are around him and don't hesitate to call 9-1-1 if he is threatening, seems like he will hurt himself or others.
I would stay far far away from this nutjob. You can't stop your husband from visiting his brother(?), but I would keep myself and my kids from seeing him. He sounds like he is a danger to himself and others unless he gets treatment for his mental illnesses.
The "Dad" sounds like he has some issues. It would probably be good for him to get professional help. But from the sounds of it he may reject that as another conspiracy against him. Someone needs to talk with his wife and then really give her lots of support. It needs to be handled delicately so the intervention is not perceived as condemning but because of love and caring. As far as the holidays I definitely would NOT avoid him. That would only fuel his mental suspicions that the world is against him. Owning a gun does not make him dangerous. I didn't read anything in your post that said he has threatened anyone with bodily harm. Although being unpleasant to be around, he sounds like he keeps to himself. Being anti-social and wearing sunglasses is not necessarily dangerous, it only means he is uncomfortable in his surroundings. He needs to receive compassion and help not condemnation.
I'm not sure if you are implying that this person is dangerous, and could potentially shoot people. If that is your concern, I don't think based on what you have said that you can make that conclusion. He sounds like a really unpleasant person, but not necessarily crazy.
If your question is: should you spend some small portion of the holidays (a day or two) with this person present, then I think the answer is yes.
Like I said, I don't think he sounds crazy enough to actually shoot people. But who knows.
p.s. Reading other responses -- everyone else seems to think he's dangerous, so I'll defer to them. Good luck convincing your husband.
No I would not in any way shape or form be comfortable with this man in or near my house or near my family anywhere. From what you describe he is mentally off balance. Maybe paranoid or schizophrenia or something. Do you think that maybe the wife and kids are to scared of him to leave? Do you think the wife may need some help to get away from him? Or is she the same way? Could you call child services and see if they could remove the kids and put them someplace (hopefully) safer?
The personal safety of you and your immediate family comes always first. And NO I would not feel comfortable anywhere close to "Dad".
Guns or not, this person sounds unstable. Going through a decline from having a "normal" life, a house and holding a job to not being able to hold down steady employment or their own roof over their head can be signs of mental illness. It would also fit with the paranoia you have described and the "coldness" - especially if he hasn't always been that way.
If "mom" or another family member asked you for an opinion, I would suggest that Dad get evaluated for depression or other mental health issues. As I said, guns aside, the poor guy sounds miserable and the entire family would probably benefit if he got treatment.
On another note, if you have SERIOUS concerns that he might be homicidal/suicidal I would suggest you contact the police.
Good luck!
Well, sounds like if you invite the one he isn't speaking to her won't come. Invite him without letting him know where it is until/unless he says he will come.
I have some odd relatives and I typically just grin and bear it. I think I would be uncomfortable with this particular relative.
No, I would not feel comfortable with my family around that kind of person. Your instincts are telling you that he is unsafe. Go with it. I would try to find a way to get him help. Does his wife have any pull with him? If so, I would approach her and see what she can do to sway him in that direction. He must be very unhappy. If that won't work, I would try to plan an intervention with several family members. He might respond better if approached by multiple loved ones. Good luck! It sounds like a challenging situation. If your husband still wants to spend time with him, that's fine, but I would make sure that happens away from your house and children.
