Need Proper CONSEQUENCES for 4-Year Old Twin Boys - FLOODING

You have so many great responses! As a stepparent of twin boys, I would like to wholeheartedly recommend: Make it a rule that they cannot go into the bathroom together. We had to do this as well. When they are alone, they are more likely to just do their business and leave the bathroom. Together, they get ideas! Good luck, mama.

Make them clean up the mess. They are not too young to learn that if they make a mess they clean it up. The fun will go out of the game if they have to clean up.

I am a firm supporter of a properly applied spanking.

I'd sit down with them and tell them "destroying our home and things is not okay. This is our house and you are being mean to your family when you break and ruin things in our home. Next time you break/destroy/make a terrible mess, you will get a spanking."

Then, when it occurs, you don't just grab them up and commence to whooping. You sit down with them, with a VERY sad and disappointed look on your face, and remind them of the original warning. You tell them that they broke that rule and the consequence will be a spanking. Then you dole out the spanking.

If you are seriously mad at whatever it is they've done, PLEASE step away prior to the spanking. Never, ever give a spanking when you're mad. Your child should see that you are calm and collected...and you are giving them a consequence that they knew about.

Best of luck to you!

And I COMPLETELY understand all those mamas who say spanking isn't for them. I hardly ever do and can count on one hand the number of spankings I've applied. But here's the thing: My boys both know what those spankings were for as well...and they never repeated those offenses.

ETA: Locking them out of a room that they'll NEED to use for the rest of their lives will teach them nothing. Focus on stopping the bad behavior. Teach them what is okay and what is not. Locking them out does not do that. How will you teach them how to behave once you decide to unlock that door? It'll be back to square one.

Hmmm....this may not work in your house, but is there a way to simply lock the upstairs bathroom door(s) so that they are forced to use the potty downstairs where you are? It sounds like a majority of the issues you're having are bathroom/water related. If he's forced to have a chaperone every time he goes to the bathroom (even though it'll be a pain for you as well) it may well help the problem.

Also, I'm just going to toss this one out there, but do you have a local Y or Boys & Girls Club you guys could join with an indoor pool? If so, you might want to think about letting them physically play in water a few times a week. Maybe it'll help take the edge off??

Locking the door so they have to come to you to go inside (either or both of them) was my first thought but I see how that can be tough with kids this age, who may as you note wait very late to "go."

Maybe you could put an alarm on the door (for daytime!) that buzzes when someone opens the door so you know someone's gone in and can supervise. There are alarms like this at places like Home Depot stores etc. The down side is that they usually are small boxes that you affix to the door, with another small box on the door frame, and the opening of the door separates the boxes and sets off the alarm. I would be concerned, from the way you describe things, that your sons might find a way to pull off or disable the alarm as part of their shenanigans. I'd try locking first, but an alarm would be an alternative; maybe you can find a better and non-destroyable type online. Also be sure that older brother does not think an alarm is the coolest thing ever just to make noise with....Of course if you have a baby it would wake the baby at naptimes, but if baby's not a napper, you could try it.

Also, I haven't read all of every response, but they do need a rule that bathroom time is solo time, and neither of them should ever be in there when the other one is in there, period. If you're doing joint baths at this point, I'd stop it if you possibly can, as a way to reinforce that they now do everything in the bathroom solo or with mom or dad present, not any siblings at all. I'd lay down the rule and tell them in advance what the consequences will be if you find two of them in there (possibly I'd give a warning first before moving to consequences). They clearly egg each other on, even though one is the main instigator. It won't solve all the problems but it at least might reduce the volume of water being thrown around or toothpaste being squeezed....

Consequences depend on what their personal "currency" is. Making them pay for things is good but at four years old, a lot of kids aren't really as deep-down affected by having to do that as older kids would be. Time outs and missing dessert don't seem to be working. I would tell them in advance, at a time when things are calm and not in the heat of the moment when they've just done something, that you will be taking away (fill in absolutely favorite toy or activity in the universe here) for (fill in length of time here--one day, two days, whatever, make it count) if they do (fill in types of discipline-able behaviors here). Then when the behavior occurs -- instant impounding of the toy. Or make the thing taken away TV or screen time if that is what they value, and make the removal stick --not just one day's worth of loss but a couple if they really love TV. I would also review with them each morning how we behave in the bathroom; how we do NOT go in there with anyone but mom or dad; what will we lose if we show bad manners and bad behavior in the bathroom; etc.

And i LOVE the idea someone posted about letting them have pool time to perhaps make water play less of a fun novelty in the house!

Ban him from the bathroom without supervision. Every time he needs to use the bathroom, he has to get permisson, the door stays open, and if possible either you or your hubby supervise him while he's in there. He may have to "hold it" while you finish something before you can supervise him - oh well. I think after realizing that you no longer trust him in the bathroom alone, he will do whatever he can to regain your trust. If you find him in the bathroom without permission/supervision, he puts on pjs and goes straight to bed, no matter what time it is! And he stays there until the next day - again no matter how long that might be. Short time outs are not working - you need to really get his attention!

By the way, I would have spanked the hell out of him when he cost me $1800!

Hope your home owners coverd the 18K! A couple of questions and suggestions:

It's clear you have your hands full with your large family mom, but these two need closer supervision.

Do you have a half bath down stairs? Only there when you or dad are down stairs....Only the upstairs bathroom when you or dad are upstairs.

Never let the twins go to the bathroom at the same time.

Showers (separate) No more baths. Limited time

Yes they should ask permission before going into the bathroom.

Take them to the bathroom before bedtime, limit liquids about two or three hours before bedtime. If possible try and get them through the night without having to get up....have them wear pull-ups incase accidents. (Tell them they will be in pull us because even though they ARE NOT babies, they act like babies. When their overall conduct improves, regular briefs. (Do they wear those cute briefs now? If not take the to the store and let them pick a package, each out. They will get to wear them when they have had a months worth of good behavior).

If they do have to get up in the night, after what YOU KNOW they are capable of, I would still want them to call out to you or dad for permission.

You or dad put the toothpaste on the brush for a few weeks.

Best of everything to you and your family.

Blessings....

I agree with Cheryl O. You may not want a million rules. I also did not have a ton of rules with my kids, but there must be some. There must be real consequences to their actions. And you have to be willing to suffer along with them just a bit to get the point across and maintain order.

I agree they should not be allowed in the bathroom without supervision. Period. I'm not sure I would let them upstairs alone. And bathroom time is no longer fun. Maybe only allow one child in at a time. To help you monitor them I would hire some older kids to help you after school.

I think a consequence for their action would be no vacation for them this summer. I'd hire a sitter and tell them........ "I am so sorry kids, but Mommy and Daddy had to spend so much money fixing the bathroom we can only afford for two people to go. So afraid you will all have to stay home." If you don't want to do that, then use the same excuse and leave them home every Saturday Night for a couple of months while you and your husband go do something they would normally want to do. They've got to feel it to be motivated to be good. So a little slap on the hand ........ well, the sting will go away quickly. Spanking, although sometimes we lose it, rarely works in the long run. It just causes resentment. So make the consequence real, and impose it without anger, but DO impose it!

Okay, maybe they are channeling my boys. :p My oldest is almost 24 so they do grow out of it. Actually he was over for dinner Monday and put his plate in the sink without me asking. I can assure you you could have knocked me over with a feather. :)

Anyway, the beauty of the older child is he will tell me now why he did that and for the most part it was fun.

Oh, all my kids are ADHD so that little voice that says not a good idea is usually very late on the scene.

So when he was four he got a hold of a just purchased huge canister of Quik while I was carrying in groceries. By the time I got back in he and his little sister had dumped it all and had just discovered you can draw in the dust. He said he couldn't stop, it looked so cool while it was falling and then it kind of sprayed out like a paint splat when it landed. Before he knew it it was all gone.

My point is if your boys are anything like mine they are not setting out to add swear words to your vocabulary. It is just fun at the time, they need to do those things. Sort of like when you look at spectrum kids who get into mayo and paint your cabinets, get them paint and a roll of paper and they never do it again.

The easiest way to end this is acceptable outlets and time. The problem with locking the door is they will find other ways to fill the need. I swear to you they will find another way or another thing. This is a need in them, not a want. Or I could be wrong....this is just my experience, ya know?

You don't need to apologize for spanking your son. It happens.

As to consequences - obviously - they cannot go to the bathroom alone.

You need to take back control of your home and your children. Sounds like you are overwhelmed.

Make rules. Set consequences for the actions - both good and bad - I don't know you nor do I know your kids so I don't know if time out will work, I don't know if taking away privileges will work either. Only you and your husband know that.

Boundaries. Rules. Consequences. Same for all in the house.
I know it's hard NOT to yell. I've done it a couple of times and it makes me nuts that I let get to me like that. I'm the parent.

I do know that you need to treat them as you expect to be treated. Respectfully - they learn that from us. They will repeat us and mimic us.

If it means that they cannot go to certain locations in the house without supervision - then they cannot go to certain locations without supervision. They want this to stop? They need to exhibit self-control and respect for the house and property.

Lock the bathroom doors and make them ask to go. Better a pee pee accident than more major damage to your home. Perhaps you could plan potty times into your schedule to reduce the number of random requests- It works for pre-schools.

waterboard 'em?
i got nothin'.........
;) khairete
S.

I do home daycare and in addition to the required locks on things in there, I do make my kids ask/tell me before going to the bathroom. I have never ever had an issue like you describe and I can have up to 10 kids in my house (8 under age 5 and 2 schoolagers would be the normal mix..and my kids typically are toilet trained at age 2 1/2). SO I am constantly in the middle of a diaper change when somone needs to GO!

When there are such costly and PITA issues, I would go for some containment (ie locks on cabinets/doors and wean back into full privleges), and such. You are out manned at this point and they are far more creative with what they have at hand in there!

My kids almost always make it to the potty with needing to ask permission and learning to ask with enough time is a part of that process and a learned skill as well. Our motto and mantra is a constant "STOP and go potty"

Best wishes!!

My daughter has been up to bathroom antics lately too. She is three. Not to the extent of costing us money...yet. A few weeks ago she dumped a tub we keep bath toys in all over the floor...over a two gallons of water. I couldn't stop her, but I was there to clean it up immediately, fortunately. So that week she lost all of her bath toys and got a time out. Then she flushed her breakfast. She got a time out and lost the privilege of eating at the bar. Flushing random things has been a problem . Last week we had our toilet in the back yard while we had a hose in it to flush out a cap that she managed to jam in the pipe. For a bit, we thought we were going to have to get a new toilet. So she is no longer allowed in the bathroom alone.(If I will be unavailable, I try to get her to go potty before I get involved). Yes, it's been a complete and total pain in the butt! But she also hates it. So every time I hear "Please go away, mommy" or "I can do it myself." I remind her that she can't go in the bathroom by herself until she can make good choices in that room. It's been a week. We plan on trying again. But we have moved things a bit until we are sure she has learned her lesson. The soaps are all up in higher cabinets, so is the toothpaste. My husband unhooked the stoppers so she can't fill the sinks (another favorite hobby of hers). And yes, this is a pain too, but we are being pre-emptive. I'd rather be a little put out than the house destroyed. We took similar actions with her when she would go into our room and plunder...it worked then, fingers crossed it works again.GL!

ETA - we don't lock her out at night, but as of yet, she's been to sleepy for any issues during the night time...knock on wood.

Oh boy...sounds like you're outnumbered in the extreme! I really have nothing other than locking the upstairs bathroom as well. Someday you'll laugh about these shenanigans, really you will. God bless you...four boys...in 6 years...I hope they're all mamas boys and spoil you rotten when they're grown up!

I'm going to go into a completely different direction with this...could there be something else going on..like ADHD? I've read a lot about kids with ADHD having a lot of behaviorial problems because they can't control themselves even if they know it's wrong.

Just thought maybe if there is something to that and it's unaddressed then all the consequences in the world won't help until it's addressed.

You don't need more consequences - your kids need more supervision - and yes I know that is time consuming and exhausting. When my son was four he was never in the bathroom long enough to pour enough water on the floor to flood it without someone checking on him.

I try to use positive parenting. The first thing that means is I set my son up for success. I do NOT put him in situations where I can clearly anticipate a bad outcome. You know your kids love to play with water. You are honestly asking for trouble when you let them spend time in the bathroom themselves. Your consequence for repeatedly making the same mistake was an $18000 bill.

You may need to just wait until they are older to allow them to spend time in the bathroom unsupervised. You could also make a rule that it is one kid in the bathroom at a time.

If my son loved playing with water, I would give him opportunities to do so. So instead of spanking him, I would explain when it is appropriate (in the tub, outside, etc) and when it is not. My son learned very quickly that all splashing is towards the back corner of the tub. No water goes on the floor.

I'm sorry, I know you are at your wits end, but I'm dying laughing here, except for the financial repercussions of this.
I could totally see this happening in my house if my kids were closer in age, but they are so spread out, they just don't get in much trouble together.
I was trying to think though, because I have a 2 year old who would totally do something like this.
I am thinking maybe they really, really, really like water and need a bonafide safe place to have water play as often as possible. Do you have a back yard? We don't even have that, we just have a wide walkway, but we put the largest baby pool we could find, as well as a water table, and tons of stuff/toys to use with the water, and we let the younger two have SUPERVISED water time anytime it's hot enough outside. My younger two are addicted to water and go crazy if we can't go to the beach, so I had to find something for them. Otherwise, yeah, they are playing in the sink and getting into mischief!
Sidenote, always dump the water out when they are done to avoid a drowning hazard.
Also sidenote, my kids get spanked sometimes, I'm not opposed to it for certain situations. But it kind of seems like if your kid is analytical enough to tell his sibling "don't tell mom!", they might be able to understand the reasoning behind why it is problematic to make a big mess in the bathroom. Like "it takes my time away from being able to cook your meal, so you will not get to eat now until the bathroom is cleaned up", or "now we have to clean the bathroom instead of heading out to the park to see your friends". Real life consequences seem to work with my two kids who tend to get into mischief.

Make them use the downstairs bathroom where you can keep an eye on them.

I'd just like to add that your boys sound really clever - I know their behaviour is destructive, but I see it more as their wanting to see what would happen if ....

I can only imagine how hectic your life with a house full of boys can be. If at all possible, I think you would all benefit from getting a book on "experiments" which can be done with normal household items. I would set a time for all of you to "experiment" together once a day PROVIDED they behave. I'm almost certain that an activity like that - with your involvement - would be more rewarding for all of you! I've found that positive reinforcement works better (especially with stubborn little ... and big...boys)! Honestly, when I switched to trying to "catch" my son doing something "good" instead of only "pouncing" on him for bad behaviour, his behaviour improved tremendously. It even worked with DH - when I made a huge fuss on the extremely rare occasion he actually did dishes without my nagging him to! :) Really we ALL crave "recognition" and are willing to do a lot in order to get it! Good luck!!

Hi H.,

I didn't read past TL's answer because I also have tears of laughter running down my face and totally agree with her. What a couple of little devils! While I'm laughing too, I can certainly appreciate your frustration. Neither of my kids went to this extreme of "trouble making", but they certainly engaged in their share of inventive disasters. On the bright side, in my experience it's the really smart kids and the ones with amazing leadership potential who engage in the type of behavior you're seeing.

I second TL's suggestion for an area of safe water play. I would recommend investing in a water table and put it some place like your garage or a basement that can withstand getting the floor soaked. Make it clear that this is the ONLY place that water can be played with in the house. Since water tables are shallow and usually don't have a lot of open surface areas (they one's I've seen are usually a series of narrow troughs), you don't have to worry about drowning potential. Also, institute a hard and fast rule about where and how ANYTHING that can squirt or be used to pour liquid can be used. I found that if I wasn't COMPLETELY specific when my kids were small (and even now that they're 18 and 22), those little lawyers would always figure out some way around my restrictions.

I'd like to highly recommend two books for you: Robert Munsch's "Love You Forever" (be ready for your own waterworks if you haven't read this one before), and "The Berenstain Bears and the Bad Habit." You can read both with your kids, but it's the Berenstain Bears method for addressing problem behavior that I found worked really well when my kids were little. It's basically a method for using positive reinforcement to address negative behavior. In a nutshell, you set down ground rules for specific behavior (e.g., no water play in the bathroom -- the sink is ONLY for washing hands and brushing teeth). Then, take each child to the dollar store and have them pick out something they really want to work towards earning, but don't buy it. Next, give each child 1 - 10 pennies, nickles, dimes, or quarters (depending on how fast you want to them be able to attain their goal), and have them keep them in a pocket. These serve as tangible reminders of the "bad" behavior they're not supposed to engage in. Give them as many as you're willing to give them "chances" to remember not to break the rules. Everytime they break the rule in a single day, they have to give up one coin, and are reminded that it will take them that much longer to reach the goal. At the end of the day, if they have any coins left, they get to keep them. The next day, they start fresh with a new pocketful of coins. This helps to teach them that there is always room for correcting mistakes on a day-to-day basis. As they get better at controlling their playful, though inappropriate, impulses, you can reduce the number of coins (tolerance for mistakes) or lengthen the duration for which they must behave (2, 3, 4 days or more/pocketful of coins). When they've accumulated enough change, head to the store to claim the "prize." (This is a great opportunity to introduce the concept of "sales tax" too, if you want to!) If by this time some modification is still necessary, repeat the process. Hopefully, they won't figure out the trick of behaving just long enough to earn the toy!

Good luck! It sounds like you're in for quite a run for your money over the next 14 or so years! You have good health insurance, right? ;-)

I'd rather clean up an accident from a 4 year old who couldn't wait to get into a locked bathroom for toileting supevision, than pay for and clean up the mess of what can happen if you just allow them to go in and use it by themselves.

I would start using bathroom doors that you can lock so they can't get in there without an adult. Then I would chaperone them while they go potty and wash hands and brush teeth.

The consequence is that they no longer have the freedom and privacy to use the bathroom because you cannot trust them.

i do reward charts with my daughter still since she was 2 and they ussually always work. Shes 5 now. Maybe the boys will compete to see who can get to their prize first after so many days of being good. I'd try evrything before locking them out. Maybe set a timer or make them let you know before they have to use the bathroom..when theyre in school kids have to learn to ask and wait. They shouldn't be in there together or for more than a few minutes.