Need Advice on Fibbing Mean Four Year Old

My favorite sibling book is "Siblings Without Rivalry". Sorry I am not home so can't tell you the author, but message me privately and I can get it to you.

Hey N.,

Dontcha just love sibling rivalry? Dontcha?

You got some really good advice here. One thing I have had to do since I have just so many kids is (and I hate to quote Dr. Phil here) find their "currency." Because my kids are so different I had to find what consequence worked best for each. My 16 yr old son was a social butterfly. He was the oldest, had no idea that he wasn't a grown up and loved to be where the action was. Sending him to his room was torture for him. He hated it. He could have all the toys in the world in there and didn't care. Now my 14 yr old son was totally different. He as quiet and laid back and if you sent him to his room he took a nap. However, he leans toward being slothful, so extra chores was like being on the chain gang for him. You have to find out what consequence will be the most unpleasant and therfore the most effective for each.

I read some good advice about siblings arguing. One mom said that she would give her kids jobs that were acts of service and kindness to the others. She would have them get each other drinks, help take off or put on shoes, make their plate, play the game the other wanted and so forth. That might be good for your 4 yr. old to do for the 6 yr. old. It could help teach her compassion and empathy as well as bring out that nurturing part of her that comes to the 6 yr old more naturally.

My boys were just like your girls. My older one made my younger ones attempts at upsetting him so successful. I had to drill into my older son that when he acted out in retaliation he tied my hands. I told him, "If your brother hits you or is mean to you and you tell me he gets in big trouble. If you are mean or hit back, you are both in trouble because now you both are wrong. You get the same punishment because I can't punish him more. You already did it. Let me be the mom and I promise I will make sure it is fair."

That is what we had to do. I hope all the great advice on here helps.

When our boys were that age, my brilliant husband would come up with tasks for them to do that required the cooperation of all to accomplish. It might be moving something heavy or doing something a little more intricate (keep in mind this is heavy for 4 and 6 year olds or intricate for that age group) and this helped them learn to get along. My own tactic was to make them stand nose to nose looking into one another's eyes or hug until they decided to get along. It would usually end in a giggle fest.

As a side note, you might want to read about raising a child with reactive attachment disorder. Although I am not suggesting either of your girls have this issue, the parenting skills you can learn from reading about "RADishes" might give you some good ideas to try. One technique alone that has worked wonders for us is "strong sitting" which you can learn more about on just about any site dealing with reactive attachment. We've used this on our four youngest with great success.

Hello N..
I too had and still have that experience..lol..although things sometimes are better now, because they know better now, yet at times its alot harder. I am a mother of 3 beautiful girls, 12yo, 10yo and 2yo. They are my life, even though at times they can drive me insane. When my two older ones were 3 and 1, they were like best friends, well still are best friends they do everything pretty much together. And can't go without each other at times. Which is nice, but as well, the name calling, the fights, the threats..its all the same. They did that starting at age 5 and 3, due to the fact that they were around their cousins who watch and listen to their parents insult and hurt each other. So my kids picked it up. All I can say is explain to them how much it hurts one another. My oldest is a lot thinner and taller than my middle child who is more muscle bound and short. So the oldest will sit here and call her fatty and stupid. Which than my middle child gets hurt. I have asked them repeatedly even when they were tinier if they like seeing each other cry and if they really truly like to make the other sad and/or angry?! They say they don't, than I ask, "Why do you say that?" They say, "Its because she made me angry!" I say,"Than explain to her that she is hurting your feelings or annoying you and that makes you angry! Instead of hitting or calling bad names or saying things that hurt!" Sometimes they ask if I can sit in so they can explain it to them, that way it don't get out of hand. Like I said, its easier when they are older, because you can explain to them to where they can understand. With the littler ones, you just got to grab both of them, look them both in the eyes and ask at their level and firm yet caring, "Do you see that you hurt your sister?" "Do you like seeing her sad?" In time they'll notice that they are not being very considerate and they start to share more and talk, instead of fighting. It does take time. Good Luck!

don't give her a chance to fib. Think about it, if you were caught doing something, and you didn't want to get in trouble, wouldn't you maybe fib a little. Think about getting pullled over for speeding, taxes, not wanting to go somewhere with your mother-in-law, etc. John Rosemond gave me this idea. Never give her a chance to fib. Don't ask a question unless you know the answer, and then don't ask it in a question. Did you hit your sister becomes, because you hit your sister, here is your consequence. Also, whenit comes to siblings, it is best not to take sides. Period. Rarely is one child innocent and the other the total aggressor. Again, I recommend the books by John Rosemond. I think his philosophy is great, and I found them very helpful.

Welcome to the world of sibling rivalry! I hate to inform you, but you have many years of this in front of you. The sooner you can back out of the squabbles, the better. Tell them that you love them both, but you weren't there to see whose at fault; they'll have to work it out themselves. You're just there to maintain safety and prevent them from hurting each other. Abusive, hurtful words will not be tolerated; when you hear them, there will be consequences (which you choose). Be consistent: set the boundaries, and enforce them. Encourage the older one to use the silent treatment: ignore the younger when she says hurtful things. Try to give the older one some privileges for being older: an extra 15 minutes up before bed as long as she has done everything she should that day, or didn't whine, etc. Continue to try to be positive, by making folding laundry with you a reward for getting along. Ask dad to take one on an errand with him so you can spend time with the other, maybe for a short game, painting nails or such. Take time for a walk, a little reward at the store, or just sitting around in the back yard watching them run, and laughing. Life is short; enjoy it as much as you can. "Live well; laugh often; love much." (Nursing home plaque I bought) D.

N.,

Most kids will try fibbing at some point. Try not asking her questions that she is likely to lie about. I catch myself doing this with my fibber, but I try to not give her the chance to lie to me, it can be hard to do.

What works best when my kids fight, particularly when they hit or use name calling, we try not to ask them why they did what they did because we do not want them to think that why they missbehavied matters, because it really doesnt. After the particular misbehavior has been dealt with with dicipline, then we can have a discussion about what set them off, and what they could do differently.

M.

Do your daughters have any Veggie Tales movies? Larry Boy and the Fib from Outer Space is a GREAT movie dealing with lying and fibs. Kids just love Veggie Tales and all of them deal with helping kids to do the right thing. I strongly recommend it! =)

I think it is key to not take sides. This in turn makes sibling rivalry worse! If there is a problem, you need to address it by making it known that you are disappionted with the behavior and that you understand how the "victim" is feeling. Expect them to exchange apologies. If you are not in the room when the bickering begins, then take them both aside and let each have their turn to tell their side of the story. This may help curb your daughter's fibbing. She may feel as though she is getting her chance to voice her say. Sibling rivalry sucks! Good luck!

Besides the "birth order" traits, it sounds like you need to find the best way to work with two very different personality types. You can't change personalities, you can only learn how to work with them. The oldest normally becomes the nurturer since she has watched how you handled the 4 year old from birth. Conversely, that also brings resentment since she feels she lost your attention or never had the main focus.

The youngest hasn't had that opportunity to learn how to nurture others since she has no one younger than her. The "baby" of the family is often self-centered simply because everyone has catered to her due to her being the youngest. She has no practical example of how to nurture others, just herself.

These are things you cannot change, but can try to work with. For instance, the next time you're around when your oldest tells the 4 year old that she loves her, make sure you prompt the 4 year old to say it in return and then have her give her sister a hug. If she refuses, then by example do it yourself. Stay consistent and she will start to do it on her own unprompted.

Or, the next time the oldest shows resentment and says she doesn't want to live or wishes her sister was never born, give her a kiss and hug and tell her what she means to you. Explain that she is the oldest which is a tough role but God made it that way because it is a special job and He knew she could do it. Thank her for being such a great big sister, but then have her apologize to the youngest if the youngest heard her say it.

As far as fibbing goes, it will happen. But just like you mentioned, make sure they KNOW that they will be in worse trouble when they lie. Kids need to know consequences in advance in order to weigh out which path they want to take. So for instance, they should know ahead of time what the consistent penalty would be for bad behavior (ie time-out, or no TV, etc). But, if they're caught lying, then explain that they are in time-out because of the bad behavior, but because they lied too, then they also won't get to watch their favorite TV show either.

It all sounds like pretty normal stuff, but I know it gets trying. Good luck and God Bless!

growing up, my brother (5 years younger) always got the best of me and I got in trouble most of the time for it. We had a red metal stool that we had when we were growing up (they still have it). Mom would put that stool in the middle of the livingroom and sit one of us on it if we were bad or lied. We had nothing to reach, nothing to read, nothing to do but just sit there for the time she told us to do. She use to send us to our room when we were bad and figured out that we enjoyed that, so we were bad more often. By putting us on that stool and making us stay there with nothing to do, we finally got the idea that it wasn't nice to fight all the time or to lie. We still had out moments, what siblings don't, but we thought about the punishment a little for when we were bad or lied.

Sounds like they have you where they want you!!! Sorry, I know how frustrated you are!!!
Try rewarding good behavior. If there is no lying then there is a reward, if there is lying there is a punishment.
If they can't get along separate them, they can't play together or be in the same room unless an adult is there as well.
The older girl has to stop whining!!! When she whines there has to be a consequence involved for her. No whining she gets a reward.
It doesn't have to be money. They can have a chart with stars or check marks and at the end of the week for so many stars etc., they can pick out a movie, a dessert to go with supper, extra special time with an adult doing something one on one. For the demerits they have to do an extra chore.
Trying to get them to love each other and express it openly is a loser for all of you. Don't force the issue.
You have to be consistant with them.
P. R

I think you & your husband need a heart to heart conversation about the long term effects of what's going on and address it NOW! SET RULES, ABIDE BY THEM and DO NOT COMPROMISE......NO MATTER WHAT. Set standards for appropriate and inappropriate behavior and TALK TO THEM about both. When something is NOT addressed properly, discuss what would be an appropriate alternative. They are MORE than old enough to get this!

This child needs to understand what it means to treat others fairly and as you would have them treat you. MAKE CONSEQUENCES FOR INAPPROPRIATE behavior and STICK TO THEM! Award & acknowledge appropriate behavior....NOT just at home but acknowledge it when you see it out in a store, etc. That way.....they realize you're not "playing favorites". You can acknowledge and talk about behavior (not gossip, of course) but behavior with regard to how it should best be handled.
Kids need to learn HOW to make good decisions and WHY. If they don't think there are consequences, why should I behave appropriately???

TOO MANY kids AND adults think that they can do whatever they want and there are no consequences. "Cuteness" ISN"T an excuse! It's manipulation! Is that what you want to teach your child?? THINK LONG TERM!

They are probably competing for your attention, and to be the one in your good graces. They need to know that getting along with each other is important too. Whenever they don't get along, punish them both. Don't try to figure out who started it, or who is more in the wrong. Unless you see something blatant, the problem is that they aren't cooperating. Give them one warning, then if they don't settle their problem themselves, send them BOTH to time out.

You need to get this under control. It sounds as though your 4 years old is going to be a bully---you better do something when your older daughter tell you her sister is being mean to her . You need to question and give discipline, whether yousee it or not.