Need Advice from Parents of Kids with Oppositional Defiant Disorder

It's hard to know what she is resistant to without knowing what her firmest consistent discipline has been. The book Back to Basics Discipline is great for her age. You can scan it on Amazon to see if it may be helpful. Also, since she's getting older, the show The World's Strictest parents (about troubled teens) has great discipline tips and episodes are available for free online.

That doesn't sound like oppositional defiant disorder. Just because someone questions authority doesn't mean they don't respect authority. They just need to understand why they must do what they are asked.

Kind of a 'why' kid, ya know? The kids that you may as well never say because I told you so, because you are wasting your breath? I will go out on a limb, smarter than average?

The good news is if this is your child discipline is not needed, it is actually counterproductive. You just have to tell them why. Of school I have actually told my kids I can't explain why but this the game, these are the rules and you must play to go on to the next grade level. A nice way of saying suck it up. It works.

If this is the case teen years are actually easier. These are the kids that ask why do my peers think smoking is cool, drinking is cool. They reject peer pressure if it makes no sense and most of the time it makes no sense. :)

I actually feel today that I can offer at least support-some knowledge-as behavior issues became my 'specialty' when I became a parent!
Like you I was a compliant kid and was afraid of breaking the rules.....in my mind however I would think "what is the worst that could happen if I don't do (insert rule here)?" Thing is, I never acted on that thought.....Fast foward to me being a 'grown up' and having kids......My 5 year old is like the alter ego I had when I was a kid = he acts on the "what would be the worst that could happen if I (whatever it is)."
Anyway, as Jo said discipline for these children can be counter productive.
My GREATEST success parenting my child is to ignore (extremely difficult!!!!!!) the acting out (as long as no one is in harms way) and turning my back........praising as much as possible what should be doing........and calmly taking things away when behavior is not improving - just, "well, no iPad/toy/etc. now because____." then turn my back let it go.

My child really is inquisitive - "Why do I have to_____; Why can't I____" So, I try to be as up front as possible and explain how and why's.

Best of luck to you!

EDIT to say: Ally G. if you ever had a child with a neurological disorder you wouldn't have had such a judgemental response. Walk a mile in those parents shoes - maybe read some support message boards for those who have children with these disorders.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I was that kid Jo (and maybe you) are talking about. I was good in school because I knew why I had to be good in school. I needed to move onto the next level, to be successful in life, that sort of thing.

But at home, I had to follow the rules because they were the rules and you are supposed to follow them. No explanation. No reasoning, that's just the way it was. That works for some people, but it didn't work for me. I'm STILL that way to this day. I don't do things just because you tell me to. I need to know why. If you give me, 'That's just the way it is" I'm doing it anyway.

Example: When I was teen, there were to be no phone calls for me after 8 p.m. Well, I thought that was ridiculous. Why do I need to be off the phone so early? When I asked about it, this was the answer, 'Because those are the rules.' That wasn't a good enough answer, so I would do it anyway. I got used to being punished because I was ALWAYS getting punished. I wasn't afraid of consequences at ALL. In fact, all the punishing made me immune to it. But, the only thing my parents had to do was relax with all the darned rules, explain themselves once in a while and it would have been all good. They thought by tightening up the rules more it would make it better, it just made it worse. I also had no qualms with peer pressure because I did what I wanted to do, not because so and so said it would be cool. Well, why is it cool??

The crazier part is that I served in the Army for 6 years! The rebellious person that I am, but the difference was that I knew WHY I had to follow the rules; they weren't arbitrary.

I think my parents felt that they were the authorities so I had to listen just because of that fact. But in my mind, that wasn't a good enough reason. It was a stand off between them and I until I moved out at 18.

Maybe try speaking to her and ask her what's going on. Are you explaining the rules and why they're they way they are? Are trying to overpower her (that's not gonna work BTW) with the rules? Are you trying to work with her so everyone can have harmony in the household or is it just, "do what I tell you?"

I don't have a disorder. I just don't like being bossed around.

EDIT: This is already long as hell, but I forgot a part. I was always respectfuI was very passive aggressive as a kid because that was all I was able to get away with! Call my mother stupid? HA! I wouldn't be typing this right now.

the fact that she is "good" at school and only disruptive at home/with you leads me to believe that it is NOT ODD - i'd seek out family therapy as well as having her checked out by a psychologist/counselor. good luck.

Second, third and forth the Love and Logic suggestions.

My youngest is only three...but has high Functioning Autism,ODD and Sensory Processing disorder.

We took love and logic course's that have helped us deal.

Good luck! I am fearful for the day he is bigger then me...He already does a good job being able to over power me...but I can still restrain him. Once he is too big...I am screwed:(

hoping lots of therapy and love help with alot of it...but he does not make connections very well and has a hard time with social ques so I cna not bet on it at this point:)

I was a very experienced teacher who was known for my gift of reaching the hardest kids. Until my child was 7 or 8, she was compliant and easy.

My child was evaluated this year because she shows signs of ODD but only at home. No one thought I should have her evaluated. My husband and I did it on our own.

She doesn't have it, but the way we discipline her makes her seem like it with us. She has anxiety and anger towards us.
She feels unloved and like we are mean when we get super strict. Spanking made her aggressive.

Had I not experienced this myself, I would have judged and blamed the parents. My child is highly intelligent and even more sensitive. She asks why and notices inconsistencies. Some people may think that is being a smarty. She is trying to find out things. Being like a drill instructor has caused a rift between us. If I could go back, I would try and stay calm and detached. "Late to school=no tv that day" for example.

"If you are late, you can't watch tv in the morning until you have been on time for a week." No arguing, no taking it personally, and no extreme punishments.

Just to throw my thoughts in about ODD, here's what I always learned/experienced in the very FEW rare case I came across it professionally (it's really difficult to identify a true case of it):

ODD kids do not respond at all to praise for good behavior, because they view it as a sign that they've been controlled, and that you (the authority) have successly gotten them to do what you want them to do. Due to their tendencies toward Opposition and Defiance, pleasing "the man" is never the goal. So if you say "thanks little johhnie for not throwing your food on the floor!" you will actually trigger little johnnie to throw his food on the floor right after you turn your back ("ha, see, I DIDN'T do what you wanted, I do what I want!")

Thus discipline is very tricky, as one said, it has to be as detched as possible, "if this then this" kind of system that is unrelated to pleasing others or the world at large. You have to get around that feeling of power or control, which seems to be the base of most parent/child relationships. They have to think they have the control, because they don't liek the feeling that some other person has the power over them. I know I'm being very vague but it's because I am not an expert. If your daughter truly has ODD I would consult the experts, it is very complicated disorder.

In response to Ally G, I grew up with a sister has ODD. It is VERY real, VERY stressful, and I can't even imagine being a parent to a child with ODD. If you don't even know what it is, why in the heck are you getting on here and spouting out useless information? You can't have an opinion, you've never even heard of it!!!

Back to your question, SweetChaos. You REALLY need to get your daughter into a psychologist. If she does have ODD, she needs a specific type of counseling. My sister went undiagnosed and untreated until she was a teen. Essentially, it was too late then. She was too far gone. With treatment, there is an incredibly successful rate of improvement and coping. The younger the treatment the better!! You will also learn coping skills, and how to "discipline" effectively. Trying to discipline right now, won't actually work. With that said, children with ODD almost never behave well at school. I mean, it's really kind of unheard of. I don't think a child could behave so well at school with ODD. I would suggest still seeing a psychologist (specific to children with behavior issues) and going from there. They might say there is nothing wrong with, but can teach YOU how to cope with her personalty. She might have something going on, and they can help everyone learn to cope. Good luck.

I have never heard of ODD. Seriously? There is a disorder for kids who don't have respect for authority? Is it so it can be covered by medical insurance should the child need medication or hospitalization or something? In my day, we were threatened with military school...or embarrassment by being walked into school every day by mom and dad.

Added: Where the hell am I making judgements? I was just trying to clarify what Sweet was describing as to what is the problem. And its true - in MY day - not yours obviously -, there was no diagnosing such a thing...maybe this disorder wasn't defined yet, and we DID get threatened by military school. Too bad my words offended some of you...maybe they would have helped you get a better handle on some of your issues.

My sibling had this, though it has improved greatly in adulthood. It was very difficult, you really need professional help depending on the severity. Counseling may help her, or at the very least you. My sibling had to be institutionalized for a while and medicated as well as a child.

here is some professional advice on what can be done to help:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/oppositional-defiant-dis...

http://www.aacap.org/cs/resource_center/odd_faqs

Look into the book Love & Logic- Teen Years. I attended a Love & Logic class that was more geared towards young children but learned a LOT. Someone loaned me the Teen Years book and what an eye opener!

I would seriously question the ODD. Usually people who have it cannot turn it on and off at will. If you really believe something is going on, ask your school about having her evaluated by the school's psychiatrist.

My daughter was the EXACT same way! It drove me crazy when people would accuse me of bad parenting.

I would look at her holistically- my daughter was originally diagnosed w/a plethora of these acronyms (ODD, ADD, OCD, etc.) along with Tourette's (so mild I would not have thought at the time of that one!)

Anyway, it turned out she has some pretty severe sensitivites to food (try the Feingold.org site or the GAPS or SCD diets if you want to test for food allergies yourself.) A good book is Is This Your Child by Doris Rapp, MD.

She was also diagnosed with PANDAS (an autoimmune disorder associated with strep throat which can cause some psychiatric symptoms ranging from opposition to aggression, along with other things like sporadic bed-wetting, handwriting changes, problems w/math, etc.- symptoms depend on the child.)

At any rate, those are a couple of things I would look at. Getting a therapist is not a bad idea, though I will say that even the "best of the best" in the area could not help us- my daughter simply would not engage with them at that age (maybe she would now that she is "better" and a little more mature at 11 yrs- I don't know!) I would advise getting a doctor who works in natural medicine/holistically, a good chiropractor who works with children/families, doing some diet changes to whole foods (GF/DF is great too) and keeping her routines the same and predictable daily/weekly.

It's pretty amazing how much allergies, pain, and other environmental things can influence our behavior- especially if we have never felt any other way! The body is amazing in that the physical things and emotional things are all tied up together.

Let me know if you need any referrals to doctors (we've been all over!) and any additional info.

:)
M.

Is there nothing you can take away that would make her upset and think about her actions before acting out? What does she love? An activity? Time with friends? A sport? Video game time? Can you find something that she would hate taken away from her and then start with that? Maybe you and your husband can sit her down and tell her how you expect her to behave in different scenarios (when are the times she acts out? When it is time to do something else? ). Give her concrete examples. Tell her if she can act the way she is supposed to act you will both praise her and be proud of her (and then praise her like crazy! Reward her even). If she acts rude/bad then she will get x taken away after you count to 3. I am sure you have tried this already...but you say nothing works. I'm really just thinking out loud here bc my son is very similar. His behavior rarely changes even though we have found a consequence he hates and he will do what I say at the count of 3...but with a lot of anger/moodiness. At least he will do what I say. You say she is good at school, so she must have some regard for authority. Maybe things are inconsistent at home? Maybe there is no concrete schedule at home? Make the rules about when she can do things very black and white so she knows things will not change. I don't know. If you find something else that works really well let me know.

My son does not have ODD, but also is a questioner who is not always respectful of authority. One thing we have done that has worked very well is to use an If Then strategy....If you choose not to get in the car you choose to go to your room when you get home. It works because it gives them the power to choose the outcome. You set the outcomes of course, but they get to choose. Either she gets in the car and can play with her friends at home or she doesn't and is sent to her room - her choice. Although it sounds like an ulitmatum, it's not - the power is in giving the child a choice. Give it a try, it's easy to implement and it works.

Can you give examples of what she does?

I'm not sure if this was mentioned (I can't see other responses) but please look into the work of Harvard psychologist Dr Ross Greene. Visit this website www.ccps.info and www.livesinthebalance.org

you make it HER problem.
Tell her that you talked to the doctor about her behavior and he said it is a symptom of being overtired. So the doctor ordered that for the next 3 weeks her bedtime has to be 6 pm. You don't want to do this, but the doctor said to, sorry. Tell her that the doctor also said that after 3 weeks if she has behaved properly her bedtime can be 7 pm, but it has to be 3 weeks of no attitude, no defiance or it starts over at day 1.
Trust me SHE will solve her attitude problem.
You may have to turn her lock around on her door and/or get a key lock for it. Cause she WILL try to get out and they are smart at that age and know to use a nail to open the lock. She will scream and fight and get angry. You may have to remove all her stuff from her room as well. Do it and tell her the doctor said this might happen and this was what he said to do. Sorry. But the doctor said.
It works.