Need Advice - Avondale, AZ

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Men are not that clean of gender so my guess is its just an excues, and i can't say i would like to be somewhere I weasn't wanted so maybe a trial seperation is instore to see if he really is still interested.

FLYLADY.NET
FLYLADY.NET
FLYLADY.NET
She will save you, if you save yourself!

It's wonderful that you're both willing to try to make the marriage work, especially since children are involved. As for cleaning, Flylady.net has really helped me get routines down and make cleaning so simple and easy to keep up without ever doing a ton of work. I just do a little bit every day and it never seems to get out of control, and I was already clean to begin with. This system has just helped make it tons easier and systematic. I no longer wait till the floors are real dirty before mopping--I do them once a week even if they're not that bad and then spot mop throughout the week. My point is that when I used to wait until they really needed it, it took tons more time to do. Now it's quick and easy because they're never really that bad, plus they're usually clean in the meantime when anyone comes over which is very nice. So I HIGHLY recommend you go to www.flylady.net and check it out. It's not just about cleaning. It's about letting go of perfectionism and loving yourself and have peace instead of chaos and clutter, and as a result being happier and nicer to live with. It's about changing from the inside out and affecting everything in your life in a positive way.

Hi C.,
I really don't have any marrige advice or anything. However, what I do know is true is that you can't make someone happy. It seems to me that when hubby is unhappy about the house, the cleaniness, the finance, you or the kids it really isn't about all that. He is only unhappy with himself. Therefore, nothing you do can ever change that. (I am sure you tried all.) The only thing you can do is to be true to who you are. You be the woman you are and please yourself. Be true to yourself as a wife and mother. Fulfill those duties. If he still is unhappy and find faults. At least you will still be at peace with yourself knowing you have done what you need to do and it has nothing to do with you. I do think a councilor can help you with this. You said you both love each other still. A professional can give you both TOOLS to use to solve situations. Also, he/she will give hubby a different point of view on things. Sometimes, a wife can say the same thing over and over. However, when a third person says it he may actaully listen and ponder. Good luck and remember to just find happiness within yourself. He can't make you happy either.

Hey C.,

First, this isn't an issue simply about whether a house is clean or not. It sounds like a convenient excuse for your husband so he doesn't have to be home and can shift the blame for it onto you.

I'm also an at-home mom so I absolutely understand that there are things during the day that can interrupt cleaning. But, let's face it. We're mommies first, cleaning ladies second. If my child wants my time for something, I'm going to put down the laundry or the dishes long enough to hang out with them.

One thing that might help you, (not only with your sanity, but also with the cleaning), is beginning your older child with small chores that are age appropriate. It's just that much less you have to do, gives them a sense of accomplishment and teaches them how to be self-sufficient as they get older.

Really, this isn't about a clean home. You and your husband need to find a good counselor who will sit down with both of you, (together and independently), to find out the root causes that are making you both miserable. The dirty house excuse is just that....an excuse.

I dont have any advice as far as the relationship goes. But my husband used to say stuff to me about how messy our house was when he would get home from work. So what I started doing was only cleaning during naptime for my boys and then about 30 minute sbefore he would get home from work I would go and do a quick pick up of all the toys and everything so it looked cleaner when he got hom. it has helped a lot just having the toys up. and it has saved me hours of cleaning everyday. I am sorry that you are having problems and I hope that this advice can at least take away some of your stress.
E.

I read your story and I found myself thinking that it sounded a lot like me a year ago. I was not married tho. My ex would always go out without me, he worked nights and would just go out after work. Sometimes he would not come home until 4 am. I use to stay at home but after a year of fighting about it I went back to work. It did not make anything better. He was just not willing to set aside the resentment that he had twards me and realize how much I was trying. We were together 6yrs before I realized that even tho I loved him and I knew he loved me, we would never be happy together. I suggested we take some time apart to put things in perspective and after a few weeks we both decided that we would both be better off apart. Being a single mom is hard, but I have found myself again and a better mom because of it. I realized that I want my kids to see healthy loving relationships, and that I want them to be happy. And they are now.

The scenario you describe sounds pretty abusive to me. In the end, do what you think is best for your boys. I personally don't think it would be appropriate for me to say to you "Get a divorce." But I have two young children, and if my husband was the way you are describing, I wouldn't stick around. No man is that important to be treated that way.

Hi C.,

I can completely empathize with the cleaning. If you can afford it at all, it really helps to hire someone (even as little as once a month) to help you clean. I always joke that hiring my house cleaner saved my marriage!

But on a more serious note, as the others have said, cleaning is not the issue here. It sounds like your husband is not appreciative of your work (and we all know that motherhood and managing a house are hard work!) and not appreciative of you as a person. I sensed from your writing that you try very hard to please your husband, but he's never satisfied. It makes me wonder how much effort he makes to please you. Your relationship sounds very much like my parents'- for years my father expected my mother to do everything and made her feel like she couldn't do anything right.

Find a counselor! If you need names, I can give you some. My husband and I have most definitely benefited from counseling sessions. You need to discuss your feeling like everything is your fault, because IT IS NOT ALL YOUR FAULT. Your husband's attitude that you are to do everything (from caring for your children to keeping the house clean to earning a GED to getting your drivers license) by yourself is absurd and needs to stop IMMEDIATELY. You are right that a counselor can't fix this. But you and your husband can fix this with a good counselor's help, providing your husband agrees that changes need to be made.

Think about your sons and how you want them to treat women as they grow older. They will learn sooooooo much from watching your husband and you interact, not to mention what they will learn about women in general from how you carry yourself. I worry that your self-esteem is suffering, because your husband sounds like a bit of a bully. Unfortunately, your sons are likely to repeat the behaviors they see their father using unless you stand up and let them know that how you are being treated is unfair.

Good luck, and please let me know how things go. It might get yuckier before it gets better. And if for some reason your husband doesn't see any need to change, then please remember your sons and take care of yourself- because a divorce might not be so bad compared to raising two sons who might someday treat women (and especially their wives) this way.

Hi C.,
I am really sorry that you are going through that. I think it's universal.....in some sense or another. The thing I'm wondering is when you ask your husband to stop going out or talk to him about why you have a hard time keeping clean, is it delivered with complaining and whining, nagging and yelling, or is it a truly heartfelt expression? You know with my husband, the one thing that turns his ears off is when I whine or yell. On the other hand, when I take the time to really sort out my feelings and frustrations it's like magic! I mean think about it.....what drew you two together in the beginning??? Probably the same thing that draws any couple together.....great conversation and connection. It really stinks that when you have kids the balance changes and you stop communicating, and begin to bark orders at each other day in day out.....I know it sounds familar.... I think it happens to every married couple.... So my advice is to write it down, think about it, do what you need to to figure out how (in a tactful and loving way) to bring this to your husband and *help him understand what your feeling*. I know it will work...reach that connection point you have with each other (dinner out, a pincic, go for coffee, do whatever you guys do or did), but the thing is it's like a new habit, it'll take some time to really work it out...lots of rich communication and grace toward one another. Hang in there and understand he is going through entirely different emotions and being a man he probably can't figure them out.....that's where you come in to help draw him out instead of shutting him down, by being the victim in this matter.(unless of course he is abusive then I'd have different advice) God bless you, I really hope this can be a help, may God be with you. T.
P.S. Flylady works wonders

I have four small kids, so I know that cleaning after them (plus 2 adults) is what I refer to as "Damage Control." Someone once said that cleaning up after kids is like shoveling your driveway while it's still snowing!

I would suggest that your husband HELP clean. Ask a family member or neighbor to watch the kids for an entire day/weekend, and the two of you can get the house clean from top to bottom. Give things away that you don't use, and really stick to what you need to keep. De-cluttering can lift your spirits and do wonders for helping you get a fresh start!

Once everything is clean and organized, insist on making the kids accountable for their messes and rooms. We have a rule in our house that by bedtime at 8pm, if things are left "out" they get donated to charity plain and simple. It's amazing how fast they'll put there stuff away when it's CLEAN SWEEP Time at night - LOL. Try to limit toys to kids' bedrooms and toss/donate the ones that they're not using, are broken, missing pieces, etc.

If this all seems overwhelming, maybe hire Merry Maids - ask that you don't get other gifts per se - and that family donates to this cause in lieu of presents which are just going to = more clutter. A messy house is just a symbol of other chaos - so hopefully, you can work out the real issues together and avoid a divorce :)

P.S. You can get your GED online and many degrees too! Do what YOU want to do - and listen to your heart!

Best of luck!!

I was going to volunteer to help you study to get your GED, but then I saw that you live in AZ (I live in NM). You can buy a GED study guide at most book stores (Barnes and Noble has many). They look daunting because of their size, but you take a pre-test and then only go over the areas you need to re-learn. You can email at any time and I can try to help you through it- ____@____.com. There also might be GED prep classes in your area.
About the cleaning- I totally understand! I have a 10-month-old that rips through everything all day long!!!

I think there is a lot more going on here then just a clean house. My husband went through something like this before where he always complained about the house being dirty. But the house being dirty "was just the icing on the cake." It great that you want to work it out. For me what helped was going to church. My husband and I got to spend time together without our baby (he was in the nursery)and it really hit home when the preacher started talking about a mans roll in the house and family and the wives roll with the house and family. We currently go to Cornerstone Baptist church and we really feel at home there. I hope this helps. Feel free to email me if you want some more information on the church. I am also a stay at home mom and can relate.

Hi C.,

I can sympathize with you. I know what you mean. It's hard to keep a clean house with children. I am a SAHM with a 4 year old, 2 year old, and 10 month old. I am always cleaning. As soon as I let up and stop cleaning for a little bit the house is a disaster. My husband and I have argued. I hear "I pay the bills, cleaning is your job" But with my husbands profession he recently had more than a month of staying home with us ALL the time. And it was hard. (It's hard to be around your spouse 24/7 for a while. But towards the end I noticed he was a little more understanding about what goes on in the house. He saw that I was constantly picking up after the kids. He actually started to help out and I heard him telling my boys "your mom works hard to keep this house clean" That was a great thing to hear. Men don't understand how really hard it actually is. If he saw what you did on a regular basis he probably wouldnt act like that. I think you should try counceling. He needs to be willing to try to save your marriage also. It's not fair that he stays out with his friends and not spend time with the family. Not having a clean house is not an excuse to stay away from the family. Well, I just wanted to tell you that your not alone. A lot of couples fight about cleaning. It really is a hard job to stay home and raise your children and keep the house and laundry (I hate laundry) done. A lot more than the guys think. Hang in there and get some help!!

Good Luck!!!
D.

Hello I can relate to some of your issies in your relationship! I feel counseling can help relationships tremendously! I think what helps is having the little ones help out to learn responsibility. You both need to be willing to improve the relationship and he doesn't sound too supportive. I am now a working mom and have 2 kids ages 2 and 3 and am working because my significant other said we needed more money so I am working and also go to school. I think you need to find some way to get your GED. I am a firm believer in school for women. The stress of money has pnd effects on the entire family and I am living that cause we struggle for everything. Its a challenge. Feel free to message me if you even just need to vent! Good Luck..

A.

It really touched my heart to read your post. So many of the things you said hit home because my husband and I have had similar problems. We have been to a couple of counselors and have also talked with one of our pastors. The counselors weren't much help. Our pastor (in Wisconsin, unfortunately) was a great deal of help. If I could pass on just a few really important tidbits, I would remind you that the only person you can change is yourself, the marriage won't work if you don't want it to, and sometimes our own stubbornness gets in the way of an otherwise great relationship.
In my situation, my husband and I finally sat down and talked/yelled it out and came to an agreement that he will let some other things slide, i.e. vacuuming or the microwave not being clean if there are always clean dishes and clothes where they belong. We live in a first floor apartmet overlooking the street and people walk by and peek in our sliding glass patio door all the time, so he finally told me that his main concern is that the living room should always be clean. We still have our spats about this, but I have realized that I was spending too much time doing things that didn't need to be done (mostl on the computer) and leaving the cleaning until the last minute before he would get home.
My husband also asked me to go get a job. I started out part-time and my grandma watched my two girls 1 or 2 days a week to help out. Two kids under the age of 4 is too much for any great-grandma to handle. After a while, I started working full-time and put the kids in daycare 3 days a week. That ate up more than half of what I was bringing in every week. Being in daycare got my kids sick and I missed a week of work but still had to pay 1/2 of my usual daycare rate for the week. My kids started behaving badly and I felt guilty because I would wake them up in the morning, drop them off at daycare, go to work, pick them up, feed them a quick dinner and put them to bed. I don't know how career moms do it! My husband lost his job and then I lost mine. For 2 weeks, we were both unemployed. My husband found a job that pays better than his last one and some part-time work with a flexible schedule. We decided it would be better for him to have 2 jobs and do both of them well and for me to stay home and do it well than it would be for both of us to have one job and share childcare reponsibilites and not do anything well. So, now I am a sahm again.
Oddly enough, I have cleaned other people's homes for some extra money on the side in the past. I have found that it is a whole lot easier to clean someone else's home than my own. I think it has to do with being detached from all of the rest of the things that go on in the home. When I clean at home, there is always something else I could be doing. When I clean someone else's home, that is all there is to do.
On the upside, my marriage is healing. We both wanted to make it work. We are new to the area, and my husband doesn't have many friends to hang out with yet, so that has helped with the problem of him spending too much time with his friends - although I'm sure that is temporary.
One think a counsellor told us that actually made sense is that men and women express love differently and we tend to expect it to be expressed to us the same way we express it. The way my husband expects me to show him love is by doing things for him like keeping the house clean and making sure he gets enough bedroom time and by letting him sleep in every chance his work schedule allows. I wouldn't know that, except that he told me. I wish he would show me love by planning to spend time with me (outside of the bedroom, too) and sticking to it like he would plan to spend time with one of his buddies and maybe letting me sleep in once in a while for a change. He wouldn't know that unless I told him.
I have made a concerted effort to do what he wants. I don't always do it as well as he would like, but I do try. It hurts when he doesn't notice that I cleaned out our closet but does notice that there are dirty dishes in the sink. I'm not perfect and I never will be, but at least I'm trying to make him happy.
As far as your education goes, do what you need to do to feel happy and confident. I was homeschooled through high school and then took a year off before attending college for two years. I "technically" don't have a high school diploma either. University of Phoenix will not accept me as a student because I do not have proof that I graduated from high school - even with 2 years of college transcripts. UoP does accept GED. I suppose some employers would look at my resume the same way. If you feel that a divorce is imminent, it would probably be a good idea to at least hone some of your skills so that you can get a job if you need to. If I could help you in any way, I would be glad to.
I hope some of this helps. I wish you the best!

Life can get overwhelming and we can all find blame in the other person. Whether you need to get a job or not, you do need support. And if you're not getting it from your husband, seek out a friend or friends, a lot of us have difficulty keeping house... do not be afraid to ask someone who "seems" to have it all together how she does it. You love each other and want to work it out so I say keep trying, all relationships have ups and downs. Counseling is a great idea, but if it is out of your budget, a good friend you can confide in is just as helpful or more... but it needs to be face-to-face, not this internet kind... you need human connection to know that you are not alone. Wish you the best.

Hi C.,

I agree with most of the responses in that having a clean house is just an excuse. There is a lot more going on with your husband. A marriage is a partnership, not a dictatorship. It sounds as though the harder you try, the more he expects and will never be happy. But it is not your job to make him happy - that is his job.

I went through a similar experience. In the beginning, I would do things for my now ex-husband and he appreciated it at first but then it became an expected behavior. I felt as though I went from being his wife to being a servant. He did everything he wanted to do when he wanted to do it and I took care of our daughter, the home, the bills, maintenance, errands etc. The resentment that built inside of me only hurt one person, that was myself.

There were other issues going on, but I decided that this was not what my daughter was going to grow up watching. Women deserve respect, honesty, love and companionship. Being a wife is not a duty. Being a wife is part of a partnership in which both parties respect, honor and love each other. It sounds as though you give that to your husband but he doesn't reciprocate.

Seek counseling!!! Great if your husband will go but even if he doesn't, go alone. Do it for yourself, do it for your kids. You are worth it.

Also, pursue your education. I believe you can get your GED online. It is sad that your husband won't help you because this would be a great time that the two of you could spend together.

Divorce is not easy on anyone involved. But remember, you are a role model for your children. Your boys will mimmick their father's behavior towards women and also, if daddy doesn't respect mommy, the kids won't respect mommy.

good luck.

I had the same problem almost two years ago. My husband was the same way, and I felt the same as you do now. I hope you make it through this hard time. My husband and I are doing MUCH better now. What I did? I got a part time job. I only work Mondays and Wednesdays from 6p-10p, and Saturdays from 7:30a-5p. This has been my schedule for almost two years now since my husband started complaining that I wasn't keeping the house clean enough and I needed to get a job. I got the job just like he had wanted, so he wouldn't complain, (even though I know he didn't REALLY want me to) but it was more for myself. I needed time to get away from all the stress of constantly having to deal with everything at home. I love being able to get away, and it was a rude awakening for my husband to deal with the kids and care for them on his own. Don't get me wrong! I almost quit in that first month because I felt he wasn't good enough to care for our daughter who was only over a year then! It drove me crazy to think of what was happening with me gone!!! But he got the hang of it after a while, and before you knew it, I was the one complaining on Saturdays when I would come home to a house that was turned upside down. lol. Now he respects me and everything that I do, I appreciate my time away from home, and the additional income is a good perk. Finding a part time job really helped our marriage, and more importantly, me. Oh yeah, it also made the kids and his relationship better being that they had more time with him. As for the going out part, that's something he'll have to change on his own. There's absolutely NOTHING you can do to change him there. Believe me, I dealt with that one too. What finally changed my husband there was him joining Jujitsu! I wish you the best, and hope you get through this.