Me and my kids dad broke up about 3 months ago, we were together for a little over 6 years and after most of that being screwed up, i finally ended it. We had come to an agreement mostly through my prodding that we try to maintain a friendship for ours and the kids sake. For me it is fairly easy, but he seems to think that we should have a friendship like i do with my girlfriends and that obviously can't happen. he still tries to cross the line and anytime i get grumpy or upset with him he tries to guilt trip me. saying i don't care about him and he can't help it that he still loves me so much and i'm being selfish or rude and then he tries to throw everything he's done to help (which isn't much) in my face. i give him credit for the fact that he spends a decent amount of time with the kids and has a good relationship with them, but financially he covers maybe 15% of their expenses and anytime i ask him to keep them an extra night (he only keeps them one night a week) or to take them during the day for me to get stuff done by myself, i get attitude and excuses. he's also trying to prod into my personal life to find out if i'm seeing someone, which i'm not, but it's none of his business anyway. he tries to start arguements about me seeing someone and that's the only reason i want to go somewhere without the kids,..blah blah blah. I am just lost on what to do about this without getting in the way of his and the kids relationship.
Yeah. A lawyer. And counseling. But you need to go get the lawyer without discussing it with him, and *then* maybe go do counseling.
It doesn't sound so much as though you are "getting in the way" of his relationship with the kids, as that you're allowing him to put you in the way. He can guilt-trip all he wants, but it doesn't have to rattle you unless you actually do feel guilty. If you tend to squirm, sigh, raise your voice, stomp off, sound pleading, or seem in any way reactive when he turns on the pressure, then he has reason (on an emotional level) to think he has a chance to sway you.
I wonder if you have tried making any of the following kinds of statements in a firm, calm, kind voice, simply observing what is true for you. You may notice these examples all avoid using the word "but," as in "I know what you want from me, but…." Used that way, "but" denies the legitimacy of the other person's feelings, and sets the two of you up for more argument. Substitute "and" for a stronger, calmer statement:
"I hear that you want me to feel grateful for the child support you gave me last week. I do feel grateful that you pitch in. AND I feel annoyed that you act as though you are giving me gifts for which I owe you. These are YOUR children. I believe you are reasonably responsible for half the kids' expenses."
"Yes, I would like you to keep your children for an extra day every week. If you didn't recognize how demanding parenting is, I imagine you'd be happy to keep them more often. And it is demanding, so I can really use more help from you, since I take care of all their needs six and a half days a week."
"We both realize that you're not a babysitter. You're a father. These are your children, and they need you to be a bigger part of their lives."
"I hear that you are interested in my personal life. It is my personal life, since you and I are separated. Just as your life is not my business."
"You have been telling me that you want me to love you. Can you make yourself love someone? It is clear to me that I can't. And if you think it is possible, then I hope you will find someone else to fall in love with."
V., imagine yourself a calm, centered person, a good mother and strong adult. Isn't that who you are before your ex pressures you? If that isn't where you tend to be when you're talking with him, you might want to check out free videos by Byron Katie to see how this looks/feels. She's got a nice way with clarity and humor. Look particularly at the ones titled "Empathy," "Pressure," "Son," and "Rejection" to get a feel for how to navigate a conversation in a new way:
http://www.thework.com/index.asp
Good luck.
It sounds like the reality is that you guys need to maintain a civil relationship for the kids - not a friendship. Civil means that you communicate without getting personal on matters related to the kids. A friendship implies that he's allowed into other aspects of your life.
I agree with the lady who suggested counseling. It would be great if you guys could work out the time he spends with the kids outside of anything court appointed.
I'm not sure what else to say except hang in there and be strong for what you know is best for you and your children!
It sounds as though you weren't married but now you have a custody issue and the welfare of 2 kids is at stake. You need a lawyer. You need to have a parenting plan and an enforceable support order where he provides for their financial well being. That order will give you a framework upon which you build your budgets of time and money for your kids. This is going to cost you some money, but in the long run it's money well spent. You can start working on the parenting plan in advance, but the financial aspect is going to be rough as he's only contributing about 15% of their costs now. You need to realize that any judge/arbitrator is going to look at his income and decide what he can afford, so if he's only making $10 an hour, you won't be getting hundreds of dollars every month for your family. I wish you all well.
Maybe writing a letter kindly letting him know he needs to grow up & be a father & man up and leave you alone might work. For men somtimes the written word is best. Maybe you need to type a contract for child support & a parenting plan for visitation and have him sign it. Make sure that you have it written to your needs for now & when school starts.
You should sit down & make a list of your needs & what you feel he should reasonably take on. Like you have the kids 3 days & 3 nights one week & 4 days & 4 nights the next. When school starts he takes them Friday & pickes them up from school or as soon as he gets off work & keeps them until Monday & drops them off to school. Write a list of the kids expenses & ask him to pay for certian ones instead of the piddly amount of money he gives you.
You don't want to really be friends with him. From what you write it seems you want a civil realtionship that acts friendly in front of your kids for their benefit.
Melissa T's & Nancy W's advise on this seems right on.
Charlene R's idea for counseling seems smart.
Peg m is right. It will take lots of pracitce on your part. Other good phrases besides and to fill in for the word but are " The problem is" or "here is the problem with that" or "the problem for me is" or "This creates a problem" ect. As many ways as you can use the word problem instead of but is one of the best ways I have read & used to deal with children & adults.
I would type up contracts yourself out of court & have two witnesses there to sign & date it when you both sign them. This way if you have to go to court or arbitration you will have witnesses & an enforceable contract in hand.
If he decides to get a lawyer do not use his lawyer for both of you to save expenses. Everytime a friend of mine has told me they did that they all felt pressured to sign things they shouldn't have & it always takes thousands of dollars & years of time to fix what could have cost only a few hundred or less if done right the first time. Sometimes they can never get back what they would have from the start if they had never signed "papers".
If your feel you absolutely have to use only one lawyer
don't sign anything right then in the office even if it is your lawyer. One of my friends did that & her ex & the lawyer railroaded her. She paid for the lawyer & told the lawyer ahead of the meeting with her ex, without her ex pressent she herself couldn't raise objections in front of her ex & as her laywer representing her she wanted him to do it for her. The laywer didn't & she got screwed bad.
What she wishes she would have done is said " O.K I will take a copy with me and read it over & we can make an appointment to sign in a couple of days." Then she would have wrote in all the changes she wanted called the lawyer & had him make the changes & type up all the papers with the changes. Then she would have made the appointment to sign all the papers & had her ex come in an hour later than her so she had time to read all the papers she was about to sign making sure the lawyer made all her requested changes & nothing was wrong or left out. Then her ex would have come in & just signed & if he didn't want to sign at that very moment. She could have said " I have already paid for all of this, if you want to delay & make futher changes you will have to pay for all of it." Then she would have signed the papers if they were correct for her and walked out.
As long as you aren't trying to harm your ex & are just trying to do what is fair & equitable for you, your children & him in that order no objections should be raised by anyone.
Sorry for writng a book. I have just had so many friends hurt by not thinking of the future when they needed to the most. I really don't want it to happen to anohter good person. Hope this helps. Give me a cal if you want ###-###-####.
Ever hear the saying "No one can MAKE you feel anything?"... it's so true. If you have nothing to be guilty about, then don't feel guilty. Simply decide you're not going to listen to it or try to reason with or justify anything he says, and then do it. I say simply because it really is that simple... you just have to make up your mind to do it and not look back.
As for being friends... great choice. But, don't think you can never have the kind of friendship you have with your girlfriends... maybe it's not possible now because things are too fresh, but it is possible to do. I was with my sons dad for 3 years, split up when he was 2, and he is now one of my best friends and I talk to him the same as I would any of my girlfriends... but probly more.
Well, there is being right and then there's the peace. And for the sake of your kids, I would suggest that you aim for the peace.
Be courteous in your requests and your answers, but be firm. If he tries to guilt you, say "sorry that you feel this way" and leave it at that.
He doesn't want to give you more money or an extra day off - say" thanks for considering" period. Don't let him get into a situation where he needs to make a lame excuse or rile things up into an argument.
If he noses around in your private affairs, tell him that you wish to keep private things private and I would tell him the he is the first to know, if you decide to see someone (even if this is not true). It might also help to engage him in small talk if conversations seem to go that direction. If you tell him a lot of really boring and uninteresting every day kind of items of your day, he will get a feeling that he is still more involved that he really is ("And then at the office my coworker... blah, blah").
Your breakup is still pretty fresh, things will probably get a little worse, before they get better, just keep your head up and know that if you stay polite and friendly, even in situation where you might want to explode and insist on what's "right", your children will be better off and your relationship with your ex will be better for it years from now.
The last thing you want is for the situation to get so entrenched that you have to deal with a spiteful, emotional ex for the next 20 years or more.
It's called BOUNDARIES. You need to be firm and brave. When you react to someone out of fear, like you are afraid that he will do _____ and _____ (you fill in the blanks) then you are letting him in where he doesn't belong.
It's a huge transition to go from being married to being just friends. It's up to you to decide where your boundaries are and not let him cross them!
V.,
He can only send you on a guilt trip if you let him. As hard as it is to do, don't let him get to you. YOU ended the relationship for a reason, and YOU are trying to move on. The fact that he's hung up on you still is NOT. YOUR. FAULT.
I may be wrong, but as time goes by he may totally fade out of the kid's lives altogether. When he starts to get nosy about your personal life let him know in no uncertain terms that when you guys split he lost the right to know anything about your whereabouts, and that it's none of his business now. The two of you are no longer and item, and he does not have the right to pry into your life anymore.
This is between you and him, and your kids should not even be in the picture when you have this discussion. If either of you brings them up at all, the conversation is ended.
Hope this helps,
Melissa
BTW, I left my first husband because he was a possesive/abusive personality.
I know this sounds crazy but how about couples counseling? You are probaby not going to want to get back together with him but you do have to operate together to raise the kids and that is a relationship in and of itself. Also, the idea in his mind that he has a chance of getting back together might motivate him to go.
A third party mediator can help you two to work together as co-parents and maybe iron out a better schedule or agreement. They can also help you to get your messages across to him better if he isn't listening. It is also a form of therapy for your ex, which it sounds like he needs. ;-)
Find a good therapist and interview them first before you bring him in because you probably have only one chance at getting him hooked if he takes the bait. I always suggest contacting counselors in the Yellow Pages who DON'T advertise and are NOT bold lettered. Ask them who they recommend if the practice is full. Good luck.
Now is a good time to set definite limits on your relationship with your ex. Otherwise, you will be dealing with these issues for a long time.
The book "Boundaries" by Anne Katherine would be a good start on how to do this. I highly recommend it as well as her follow up book, "Where to draw the Line".
Good Luck.
I think it's great that you realize how important it is for your kids to still have their dad in their life.
Since you two have kids together, and you are both vitally important for the healthy rearing of those kids, you will still have to be in relationship with this guy -- you realize this, good. Like the others, I recommend counseling, because the better you two can learn to get along, the healthier the environment will be for the children. Regardless of whether you are a romantic couples, you are a parenting couple, so work on being the healthiest parenting couple you can be.
Be firm about what you want, be honorable in how you treat HIM, don't get drawn into petty arguments.
You said it yourself.....It's none of his business..Takes 2 to make an argument..don't engage in the argument...have a family member or friend watch the kids if you can. If you don't set your boundaries now you will continue to have this problem for longer than you care to.
