My Ex and My Son

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***Adding this:
There are great books about raising boys. If you go to Amazon and input the search word "raising boys' many will come up and with the reviews you can read. It may help.... his Dad... to learn some skills of compassion and/or understanding for a young "boy"... and if he is just punishing him for anything that is not to "his" liking... then your boy may just grow up resenting him. His Dad needs to also know this.

Also:
There is social appropriateness and "place" appropriateness..... for example: the way a person acts at Church is not the same way he/she can act at a Football game for example. It is not an issue of morals or freedom of expression... it is just what is appropriate or not, and in light of the "place" and values and culture of that place. But yes, teach him about the "diversity" in life, in people, in options, in choices, in expression.... etc. But that everyone is still responsible for their actions.... and to be wise..... and thoughtful about it.

This understanding and ability... will come as he gets older as well. But a young child or a teen or even a College kid, STILL needs guidance. Even a grown-up does. It does not mean that "rules" "limits" a person or their self expression. It enhances it... just like Picasso or any other great Artist or Orator.
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He is only 4 years old. Sure you said he is very smart and aware of choices and consequences and decision making, and he is a "great thinker & an independent thinker, and understands cause/effect consequences and choices" etc. Okay. My daughter is like that too.

But you need to realize... he is STILL only 4 years old. Not an adult. The human brain is not even fully developed until 26 years old. Teenagers are not even cognizant enough to make their own decisions.

Your son, is only 4. He should not be making his own decisions... across the board, and especially when it comes to the dynamics between you and your Ex.

Yes, a person should learn self-expression. But, it also comes in tandem with learning rules and societal constructs of what is responsible or not.
Even an artist... brilliant artists.... go to school and learn about "technique" and get trained, and learn about art history and art periods and about other painters and about all the different styles of painting, and then they often mentor with an artist or have to take many tests as well. They don't just paint willy-nilly and say they are an artist. It is earned and learned. They have to pay their dues and learn ALL about it. Even the most creative professions.... have a foundation in learning about "technique" and rules and ways of handling creative expression. It takes a real understanding of rules and boundaries... to then flourish unfettered and freely and at-will... WISELY.

Your son seems like a great kid... but he has to be guided. He can't make his own decisions... kids this age are not even fully developed in terms of emotions or coping-skills or problem solving... it is being learned.

All the best,
Susan

Two things...he is 4. Asking him to make choices that YOU know, as the parent, are setting him up for confrontations is not right. Yes, teach him about choices but how about picking a subject that won't get him ridiculed or set up a battle with his dad? YOU are the person that are putting him in the middle and making it so he has to defend his actions...something he is a bit too young and immature to handle right now. It is our jobs to protect our children, not put them in situations that will cause them harm.
Two. Is it so hard to remove the polish before he goes to his father's? If you know that his father will react negatively then why are you setting up that scenario? How about saying, "son in our house if you want to wear nail polish (personally I think that is weird, but I am old fashioned) then it is ok with me but dad has his own rules at his house and while you are there you probably shouldn't wear it, ok?".
As a stepmom I have run into issues like this with my step daughters and I make it very clear, what you do at mom's STAYS at mom's and what you do here stays here. Just because your ex has different ideas of what is appropriate for his son does not make him wrong, just contrary to what you feel is appropriate.

I cannot read thru all the prior responses. I came here thru your most recent post about overly negative support.

So I can only say this. I too have a 4 year old. He stuns me daily (flat out on-my-back-breathless with awe-and-love-and-amazement) in ways that my oldest simply didn't. My first was just text-book easy...Did everything the baby books say a child will do. Each child is different and whole unto themselves and I have found it challenging but ultimately rewarding to parent them differently.

If my charming-stubborn-wacky-savvy-manipulative-verbal-independent 4 year old wanted to bond with me over nail polish...You're damn skippy I would hesitate about 10 seconds before shrugging my shoulders and giving him what he asked for. But that is because I know this boy inside and out and I know he understands that he is not just asking for "fun paint". He knows that polish is a "girl thing". He knows that doing things differently can be hard. Now...If my other son asked the same question...We would have an in-depth discussion. And despite the content of that discussion, I might still say "no" because I know him too and know he doesn't have a high comfort level with being different...With being a leader.

Now...I have just validated your question. But not really. Because here's the flip side. I do not know anything about you or your son or your son's father. And so my situation and therefore my opinion might do you more harm than good. It might just be that your son is doing something that creates a bond with you AND that simultaneously pisses his father off. And some kids think any attention (even negative attention) from a parent (especially one they don't have strong bond with) is good attention.

I think you should stop painting his nails. What positive is your child gaining from you allowing him to have his nails painted? Just because he wants it? Lots of kids, boys and girls ask if they can have their nails done too when they see their mom/auntie/grandma painting their own nails. I do not think your son is learning or gaining anything or "expressing himself" at all for asking you for polish...he just wants it because he thinks its cool and you do it. he is 4 for crying out load, he would want to catch his face on fire if he saw you do it! Lots of kids would want to color on their faces and hands in marker or pen, if allowed for the same reason. It doesn't mean you should let him....

All of my boys have asked if they can have their nails painted at one point and time....and I have also told them sure and did it....once, so they could see what all the fuss is about. After that I just say no, polish is for girls...and they are ok with that and have no long lasting
side effects by not being given what they want...they are not being stifled or what have you. No negative effects....

What negative effects is your son experiencing because you have allowed him to wear nail polish? He is teased at daycare/preschool and his Dad DOES NOT LIKE IT and is punishing him...and you ARE teaching him to be sneaky by letting him have it then trying to wash it off before dad sees it.

What do you think will happen to your son if you told him "no" you can not wear nail polish?

You now know your son is being punished by his dad for this, because your ex has told you and him that he does not agree with it or want him to do it...I would save my son the punishment and be the grown up and tell him "no" next time he asks...its not going to damage his psyche/spirit.

It doesn't matter that you feel your EX does not put your son first...he is still the dad and has the right same as you to raise his child anyway he sees fit.

You nailed it perfectly at the end of your post "He's only 4 it shouldn't be a big deal"....you are absolutely right, so stop painting his nails and making this an issue at all.

i'm sorry you have felt attacked on here. I think this is a very silly issue or in others words just not a big enough issue to battle with. I have both a son & daughter & my hubby is very sensitive to my son doing lady activities. So when my son asks to wear hair bows or nail polish, I just let him know that those are things girls get to do & boys get to pee standing up, which is super cool. Now my daughter has asked to paint her daddy's toes & he obliged, but removed it almost immediately after as he likes to do things with her that she enjoys, but is not fond of the polish itself. So we have given my son the opportunity to paint his toes & fingers during dress up play, only with the stipulation that it comes off after dress up is over. My daughter plays with my son's things too, so we consider it a compromise. Everyone gets what they are comfortable with to some extent. As for going public and allowing him to learn that kids can be mean, well, I believe there should be boundaries, which is why I let my kids experiment, but in public, I have them behave appropriately and dress appropriately. Once they are adults, then they can make the decisions as to whether they want to conform to society or not & thus handle such consequences. I allow my son to wear necklaces, but they are guy necklaces. So I think you should let your son enjoy the activity with you of painting his nails, but with the boundary that it comes off before going out in public. I would do other things as well such as the fake tattoos. My kids love these and it is a way for him to be creative & expressive without the negativeness that society does have towards this type of thing. Your husband can not nor should he dictate to you what takes place in your home & vice versa as long as laws are not being broken. Your son will eventually learn the different rules for each parent good or bad, it is what it is. But if you truly are promoting independant thinking, and you both know that your ex doesn't care for this & will punish him for having it on, then I guess really you should leave it to your son to either accept the punishment, or choose to conform to his dad's rules & take it off & let your son work it out like you let him do at daycare. If you feel he is ready to choose his own behaviors & accept the consequences thereof without guidance, then I say leave him be. I personally feel 4 is too young to make such decisions as he can't possibly know all the consequences of wearing nail polish in public. He can't possibly know how a 4 year old will process the unacceptance of peers or strangers and the ramifications of such on his self image or confidence, which is why I think so many were so set that you shouldn't let him do such a thing. I personally say if it works for you & your family, then do it, but it isn't working so well, cause your having problems, thus I would just add some boundaries, which is a compromise, and see if it helps the situation overall. Certainly shouldn't hurt him to learn that it is wise to compromise at times. Truly hope this helps you and hope that you do not feel judged or attacked by me as this is what this site should be about. Best of luck.

I read your 2nd posting, where you were commenting on the tone of people's responses, on this momma's forum. I was curious as to what brought this on so I followed to this posting.

I am struck by a couple thoughts after reading your two postings, your additional statements in the "what happened" area, as well as the replies to your postings.

First- I don't think anyone put you down, berated your parenting style, or was disrespectful to you.

This a place where people ask questions for information and ADVICE. When you post, people give both. It's not expected that you will want to adopt or embrace every idea that someone presents. When you read the heart-felt and open sharing, your reading it with an open mind helps you, and your family, develop ways to cope with the issues that brought you here. It gives me pause when I reflect on strength and length of the postings, at how emotional you are. I wonder if you were perhaps simply looking for agreement or validation of your point-of-view? And didn't receive it?

Second; careful thinking about events, observing cause and effect, learning from consequences of actions is a lifelong process that begins in childhood. A 4-year-old hasn't mastered the concepts. Children rely on emotions to guide them as their knowledge base for making connections builds. Behaviors are continued or dropped depending upon if the child gains what they need or want by doing them.

So I have a question for you...what does your son get out of this painting his nails activity?

Kids his age are busy exploring their world. They move from thing to thing, try new activities, they get bored with their toys and want something new. Sticking with the same thing for weeks on end may indicate that he is getting some kind of need met through it.

I am not sure that this is about personal freedom of choice, a gender issue, let alone a bone of contention between you and his father. Rather I think it's an attention getting behavior. He gets attention. Lots! He gets it from you, from his dad, from his classmates, his teachers/staff, everyone that notices his nails.

Child development experts have written that unmeet needs cause frustration and the development of behaviors to attempt to get those needs met. Identifying and meeting your child's needs in healthy ways helps them develop into emotionally healthy adults.

I am not suggesting that you are not a loving concerned parent, because it's obvious that you are. But you did have concerns or you wouldn't have written on this forum. I suggest that looking at issues from someone else's point of view is often clarifying and enlightening.

Please don't feel defensive or attacked. Be open. If he is perhaps seeking attention, why not help him gain it in some way that negativity and parental conflict won't accompany the attention? Your love for him will guide you.

Isaac is a lucky little guy to have his wonderful and caring Mom!
Take care. (hugs)

My son is also 4 and I am also his primary parent. I think it is very normal for little boys to want to be like their mothers under any circumstances, but especially to want to do what we do because we are the main people they look at as strong and dependable.

My son loves dresses. He thinks they're pretty and fun to dance in (I agree). He found an old bridesmaids dress in the back of my closet a year ago and he wears it all the time. he's got lots of other costumes, but that is the one that makes him feel good. He'll put it on if he's upset, or just to wear while he does something else. He also sometimes likes a spray of my perfume or for me to touch his face with my make-up brush when I'm getting ready. His hair is in dreadlocks primarily because is was a socially acceptable way to let him grow his hair out (like mine) when he didn't want to keep it faded like his dads. He does wear his dresses around our neighborhood (luckily I've surrounded us with like-minded people who love my son, notice when he's got on something new and don't tease him), but has chosen not to wear them in public accept in the dramatic play area at school.

His dad is a lot like your son's dad. He tells him to take the dress of etc. DS tells him that he knows he is a boy but that some boys like dresses. His dad has a hard time with that.

I think the risk of feeling like your dad doesn't "get" you is much more damaging than the risk that you might grow up not to embrace every nuance of societies gender roles. There's another mom at his preschool who's son won't wear any shoes but ballet flats and she and I have had this conversation. Luckily I think as his primary parent, your son will get his sense of self (as will mine) from you, his mother. Eventually he'll write his dad off if dad doesn't make an emotionally safe space for him (sounds like he's already starting that) which is sad... so I hope his dad get's it together.

I say HORRAY to you for raising an independant thinker!! I also am trying to raise my child to be a free spirit and feel secure enough to make her own decisions. You are doing nothing wrong and kudos to you for letting your son know that he is secure and loved no matter what he decides to do! He will thank you for it later when he is old enough to realize what a cool and loving mother he has.

As for some women on here making you feel attacked, that seems to be how it goes on this site. There are some very judgemental ladies on here. Not all of them, there are just as many sweet and supportive ones. Just let it roll off your back. Its so easy on a site like this to say something nasty that someone would never say to someon's face. It's not like you personally know anyone here, they are strangers so who cares what the mean one's think? Just keep being the great mom that you are!

Wow, I bet those weren't the reactions you were expecting! I think the other mamas are forgetting that your son is only 4! I would make sure you have the wipes in the car. You need to protect him from unnecessary punishments. I would not allow a 4 year old to make the decision on whether he wears it to his dad's or not. You need to make it a priority that the polish comes off before he is with his dad. Carry the disposible sheets in the car for the last minute swipe. My 11 yo son, still occasionally gets in my makeup and it's funny. I just remind him that if he were a girl he wouldn't be allowed to leave the house with it on, so not as a boy either. I told him when he's older and wants to bring back "glam rock" we would talk about it then.
S.

Hi there,
Let me say that I'm firmly with you on this one. Nail polish on a 4-year-old is no big deal. I would obviously continue letting him wear nail polish while he's home. Don't try to change your ex. Like I said, I think he's wrong on this, but you're not likely to change his mind and by trying to you're wasting energy. I think your energy would be better spent directed at your son. Make sure he knows that his dad's disapproval is his dad's problem and not anything wrong with your son. Explain to him that his dad was raised to believe that boys wearing nail polish was not okay (but we know that's silly, right?). Make an effort to take the nail polish off before he goes to his dad's (tell him that it's because it makes daddy more comfortable) and because you don't want him being shamed by his dad. But if you forget, don't worry too much, just try to mitigate the damage that his dad may be doing (without bad-mouthing your ex, but by explaining that nobody is perfect, his dad loves him, he just can't get past his feelings about nail polish on a boy). I'm sorry if you got some negative responses. It doesn't sound to me like you're using your son as a pawn at all. Your ex is going to parent the way he feels comfortable, as are you (and you wouldn't let him change your mind about your parenting) so you can really only do what's in your realm. By explaining your ex's behavior you can help your son continue to value his self expression and put into perspective his dad's anger/frustration.

This is just me, but I would just ditch the nail painting and do something that is easier to remove before going over there - like face paints... my suggestion is to ditch what is causing your ex to 'freak' out and find other ways for your son to express himself...and as a parent, I would tell my 4 year old "no, I don't want you painting your nails because I don't want you getting in trouble with dad." I am sure your son will understand this if he is a "great thinker." You don't have to tell your son that it is about him expressing himself, just an action that will remove am unjust punishment...the nail painting itself...then find something to take his attention away from it so that there is still something that supports his need to express himself...I wish you all well...

Please understand that if you ask a question here that not every answer will be what you want to hear. You have the freedom to post your question and you need to realize that doing so gives others the freedom to post their responses to you, even if it means they don't agree with you. I'm so sorry that you didn't have a landslide of moms who told you that you're right and your ex is wrong, or that it's perfectly OK for a 4 year old boy to wear nail polish. The truth is, most of American society is not OK with boys wearing nail polish, or dresses, or make up. In my opinion, it's much different to allow a teenager to express themselves because that's a hormonal thing where they have that struggle between wanting to find a place where they fit in and trying to figure out how to be an individual. At 4, however, your son wants to wear polish because mommy wears it and because it's a bonding time with you to have it put on. Just the fact that other kids at school have teased him shows you that even 4 year olds do know what is acceptable for boys and girls. Would you let him wear bright red lipstick AND nail polish AND blue eye shadow AND a dress AND purple tap shoes to school if that's what he asked for because you think it's important for him to be an individual? If not, why? If you can answer no to that, you can understand why everyone here and your ex and the kids in his class have a problem with the nail polish.....and if your answer is that you would be fine sending him to school like that, good luck finding ANYONE who would agree with you.

Hi Lishalv2u,

First of all, it's like this sometimes on this website. People are going to think what they think, and unfortunately some people are going to feel free to say whatever that is whether it is appropriate or asked for or not. I'm sorry about that. I know how hurtful it can be.

In that vain, I am going to try to stick to the subject at hand and offer solutions that might make it workable. I don't think you are obligated to parent your husbands way. I don't think doing things your way at your house is undermining dad. Dad will parent his way and you will parent your way. Just make sure that when he leaves the house to go to dad's he is being respectful of dad's way. Since he is intelligent and able to understand cause and effect, then you can explain to him that, while it may not be your way and it may not be your son's way, you do it because you respect dad's feelings. This will go a long way in further teaching him compassion. That way it isn't about whether nail pollish is right or wrong, it's about respect for your parents always being the right thing to do.

At four years old and with a mom who is more free thinking your son doesn't understand the gender biases society has instilled in us. We decided pink was for girls and blue was for boys. We decided girls wore dresses and liked dance class and boys wore cammo print and liked tonka trucks. The fact is, I have taught alot of 3 and 4 year olds in my day and have reared 5 of them and boys like the dressup as much as the girls do. They like the heels that make them taller and make a fun sound when they walk, the dresses that twirl, the funny hats, and the kitchen sets and when they are left to play without judgement, they will almost always make their way to the dress up stuff at least once a week and have a ball. So many parents would be appalled, but what they don't understand is that the boys aren't putting on "girl" clothes or playing "girl" games, they are putting on fun clothes and playing fun games. That's it. Having said that, maybe you could start talking about "time and place" like we do with our daughter. She loves the makeup. She has a huge bagful. She is allowed to wear it on weekends when we are hanging at the house because there is a time and place for it. We don't feel she is old enough to wear it to school or out in public, but she can play with it when we aren't going anywhere. So maybe nail pollish can be in the evenings or a day or two of them week, or on the weekends when he isn't at dad's.

I understand this isn't something that you are doing to make your son a pawn or to prick at dad. It's a principle that you feel very strongly about and to give your son the impression that it is wrong in any way flies in the face of that principle. My ex-husband and I were very similar to you and the dad. We were totally different with our parenting. When my son was about 5 years old we had a terrible moment in which a conflict ended up causing a huge rift between my ex and I and my son suffered in the process. At that point I developed a litmus test to help me pick the battles I engaged in with my ex. I decided that no matter what, I was not going to have a time in my son's life where he or my ex were ever able to come to me a say, "We don't have a relationship because of you." My ex was never going to be able to say, "I would have been there more but your mom.....". My son was never going to be able to say, "I wanted to have my dad but you.....". If the issue wasn't worth the risk of that then it became a non-issue.

You are right, it shouldn't be a bid deal. But for some reason, for your ex it is. I don't have the right answer here. Only you do. But the real question is, is it a big enough deal to create the potential for either one of them to come to you years from now and say, "It's your fault." Don't take it away from him. Just figure out a way where he can be happy and dad can feel respected. You may find that you can compromise with your son even if you can't compromise with his father.

I know this isn't the politically correct answer, but if I were you, I would consider moving out of state and rearranging custody afterward to be some holidays and some summer time. It will be much easier to arrange for encounters with his dad which you are well prepared for, they will be less frequent generally speaking, and you can raise your child to make his own choices with less arbitrary punishment from his father.

Not an easy choice since it uproots many other aspects of your life. But if I were in your shoes, I would probably do it rather than let him get punished for thinking for himself regularly.

If you stay in that situation, there isn't going to be a lot you can do about the whole thing if he's allowed the custody he's getting in the divorce agreement. I would be honest with him that he's asking not to see him, that he's crying about having to go to his house, etc, in the hope that the reality of the situation will sink in over time, that he's just making his son hate him. But I wouldn't count on it working.

Unfortunately if you stay in the situation, the best you can do is be honest with your son that the court says he's supposed to see his dad for several more years and you can't change that for him, and that his dad values the way he was raised as a kid more than the way you're raising him, and so he's just going to disagree. And the best we can do is try to be really good about Dad not getting to see it if he won't like it, and understanding that different situations have different rules.

You might post a big sign by your front door that asks if the nail polish is gone, or some code there-abouts that will help you run through the list of things to check before he leaves, too.

Also, thank you for being a thinking human being who doesn't just perpetuate inane gender roles for their own sake. And my suggestion is related to the clear indication that this is just one of many many things that there is ongoing friction about, not just about the nail polish.

I had commented on your other post, and since it has been deleted for not being an appropriate question, I thought I would add my comment here since I am sure you will get more of the same response you got there.

Everyone needs to remember that responses can be deleted for being reported enough times or changed by the person. So anyone who thinks she is overreacting to what you are reading below- there is a good chance you are not seeing every response that was written. Point being proven by the fact that the other posting got deleted altogether.

I see that a lot. Both questions and responses get changed midway through a posting, which makes everyone who answered the original question look foolish, or the the poster who asked the question looks like they are overreacting to something. And I am sure my response here will be summarily reported as inappropriate and deleted, since it is off topic. But I just wanted to add that in hopes that you will see it and know that not everyone thinks you are overreacting. I am not going to comment on your original post because I have no problem with what you are doing as long as he is the one who wants it, and I have nothing helpful to add to make the situation better with your ex.

I didn't read any of the responses but your response to other posters. I think your question is sincere & I don't believe you are using your son as a pawn. My ex & I never saw eye to eye either. I think you have 2 choices here: let your son wear it or don't. It comes down to pick your battles. Now there are 2 negatives in your situation, one is your son is getting teased at school & the other is he's getting teased & punished at his dad's. With those at stake I would say it is best to stop the nail polish all together. If the ex was supportive & he was only getting teased at school & he was able to cope with the teasing, then I don't believe you would be posting this concern. Can you compromise with the ex & ask if the nail polish can be limited to toes only? But please don't start telling your son to hide the nail polish & remove it when he see's him, this will backfire on you & just imagine how you would feel if your ex had your son hide things from you! You have a long way to go so try to keep piece with your ex & make sure your son knows that "NOT GOING TO DAD'S" is not an option.

Hey there -

Looks like you've already gotten a lot of posts. I read them. Not surprised... but still bummed at some responses. Keep it classy ladies! Mercy!

You are obviously in a really difficult position here. Maybe you should talk to your son and tell him that you and his dad don't agree, and that its okay for grown ups to not always agree. Then maybe tell him that if he wants to paint his nails, thats okay with you, but that his dad will not agree with you and make him take the polish off. Ask him how he feels about this.

Maybe he can only wear it at your house? If its something he really, really wants to do, and he understands that his dad won't like it, and that other kids might not like it- and he still wants to do it - go for it.

The way I see it, my job is not to make their lives easy, and its not to keep them away from pain or frustration. Its my job to teach them how to handle it, and to show them how to act/react appropriately.

I don't know what I'd do... honestly. Thats a tough one. Because one the one hand you don't want your son to learn to pretend to be someone else around certain people... but on the other hand you can't control how your ex-husband will treat him if he chooses to still paint his nails.

All I can suggest is a good, healthy dose of age appropriate conversation on why some people act the way they act... and that painting your nails when you're a boy makes some people feel funny.

And listen - good for you for not forcing your child to pretend he's someone else. If he wants to paint his nails, let the kid paint his nails. I am so sick of seeing things like this happen. Its atrocious.

Ugh! Best of luck to you guys!

I see no problem with painting a boys' nails and have seen several boys go out in public with them, especially young ones like yours. As for dealing with it at dad's house, ask him if he'd like to take it off before he goes and keep some fingernail polish removing wipes in the car. I don't think by taking it off you are going behind his back, per se. He has his rules, you have yours, ie, you are no longer married.

In either case, he should not be punished for something like that. There are no laws against fingernail polish for boys or girls and I think it is quite a stretch to say it contributes to his delinquency.

I'm kind of shocked to hear other moms say things like "my son would never leave the house with that on". Wow.

My husband had a similar reaction to a pink scooter I bought for my son at that age. The thing broke a few months later. Nail polish doesn't last even that long.

First, your ex. You can't change his mind about painting nails, just as he can't change yours. I would first try to ask the father to let the boy paint up in private (i.e. at home) at least. This would let the boy know his father accepts him as he is, and lets him explore things. But it sounds like the man isn't going to allow it. How about suggesting that he explain his reasons to your son in a calm and intelligent manner? He can explain (from his point of view) that there are dress codes and standards in society (and in some houses - like his own) and he is expected to meet them. And if they are disregarded (the rules) there will be consequences. For example, certain public places and offices may have dress codes, as does the Wimbledon tennis tournament. Even you can tell this to your son without repressing anything in him. No matter what our tastes are, there are places and situations where one needs to dress and behave appropriately. At other times, we can be more flexible.

As for where and when your son paints his nails. I think it's fine that he can paint his nails at home with you and then take them off when going to see his dad. It's similar to living with your parents and then visitng your grandparents. There might be things you could do in one place that you won't do in the other. At home with you, your son knows it's okay to paint his nails as he likes. You don't have to tell your ex about it.

Is it a big deal? You don't know for sure. When I was a kid, I dressed the way I wanted, not the way my parents wanted. The habit stuck until well into adulthood. Then I started dressing better, because I wanted to look better. But from the start, I always obeyed my parents when they told me to dress appropriately in public or when there were guests/strangers at the house.

As for being teased. This is going to be hard. Bullies are mean. You can't stop them just by saying, "You're hurting me, stop." I suggesst you teach your son to not be afraid of bullies, and to know how to defend himself later on (when he's older and in school). School bullies are a serious problem when teachers and parents do nothing about it. You don't know if your son will keep up the nail-painting habit or not (or decide to do something else that again invites teasing). He should learn how to stand up for himself. I don't mean to worry you with that. I'm just warning you that it can happen to kids who look and/or act different.

So anyway, to get back to your question. I'd try to get father and son to communicate with each other better. But if that wouldn't work, I'd just make sure the boy has no paint when he visits dad.

Good luck. You are a good mother!

First off, I am sorry you are recieving so much negative feed back. Kudos to you for raising your child to think for himself. Hopefully when he gets older he will use this thinking to NOT follow his peers and their dumb choices for drugs/sex/etc.

As a kid, I was made fun of a lot for being "weird" but I also refused to follow the crowd. And it has paid off as an adult. Continue to support your child and encourage him to think!!

That being said, there are consequences for your actions, especially when they go agaist the grain of society. I have wanted to shave my head since the 8th grade, just to have the experience. I held off for a decade due to consern about loosing my job over a socially unacceptable hair cut (I am from the south - radical hair cuts are a bigger deal there). Well, I finally did it while on maternity leave with my daughter a year ago - it was great!!! Moral of the story is some times we have to acknowledge and plan around potential consequences.

I'm not sure what colors your soon is using, but maybe have him pick out some of his own. When I was a teen and painting my nails alot, my favorite colors were green and blue. I also had brown and black. I actually painted a camo pattern on my nails once with 2 different greens and brown. So basically, maybe if he uses some less traditional colors, he might hear less about it at daycare - when I taught 3 year old day care, the little boys LOVED my blue and green polish and wanted to share (obviously as a teacher, I did not cross that line but the point is that your son is not the only little boy into a little extra color).

As far as the father goes, I would talk to your son about his father being a close-minded sheep. He is obviously not as mature as your son, because he is not able to be open-minded. Your son is smart, so use the father as an example of how sad it is when people grow up worshiping the opinions of others. I would also explain to your son that unfortunantly he is going to runinto these kind of people over and over in his life and he has 2 choices - listen to the BS, and let it roll off his shoulders, or get upset and let if affect his life. He will have close minded teachers, co-workers, bosses, and so forth and unfortunantly he will have to learn to deal with them. This is a painful lesson at times, but remind him that you will be there to support him as he learns to deal. Remind him how lucky he is to not be like his dad - 90% of the people he runs into are mindless sheep, he is one of the lucky ones with a brain in his head.

Sorry for such a long response - Good luck!!!!!!

~Lucy

I think you need to consider dad's feelings also. I know neither of us would ever let my son out of the house in colored nail polish. My son wants to play in my makeup and I tell him no that it is for girls and he is fine with that. I understand you wanting to let your son express himself...we do the same for our son but we both agree on it. Last week my son wore a hideous 1 1/2 foot tall hat out in public. Had my husband or I prefered for him not to, then we wouldn't have allowed it.

If you know this is something dad is totally against, why keep pushing it? Would you allow it if ya'll were still together or would you respect dad's feelings also and put a stop to it.

I think, you are helping to create the fear in him, by encouraging to remove the nail polish to hide it from his dad.

Now, I am all for creating little individuals and free thinkers, but at this age, trying to teach that and creating an environment where a child feels comfortable and accepted is more important to his self worth and self esteem.

My 4 year old son likes to run around with fake tattoos on his face, wear my high heel shoes and underwear on his head, and that's fine to do at home for play, but when we go out, he has to dress less conspicuously. Teaching our kids about indoor voices and respecting others and not walking around the grocery store with no pants on may also make a 4 year old upset, but sometimes, teaching them about social norms and making friendships is more important, especially when he is so young. Don't worry about him losing himself or whatever over this, he has many years to find ways to express himself creatively when he knows a little better how the world works and if he wants to wear a tutu or a business suit will be his choice one day.

He is getting harassed at preschool and losing friends, getting punished at his dad's... it sounds like you are using him as pushing your personal agenda of free choice while bringing harm to your child. Even though you are doing the whole 'choice/consequence' talks, he still needs direction from you and not to be a pawn in this game.

Just try and save your energy for the bigger battles. I know you care for your son, and what I said may sound harsh, just offering a different perspective you may not have thought about.

*And the other mom who suggested moving out of state, what a way to make a mountain out of a mole hill! Give me a break, that will cause major depression for a child who will internalize a trivial thing like painting his nails to become a huge custody issue enough to make him change schools/friends....

Hi,
In your description, I see one conflicting piece of information: you discuss the consequences of painting his nails with your son, *and* he's trying to get out of going to Dad' house and getting into trouble for having painted nails.

That IS the biggest consequence! Remind him of this, because Dad's not going to change: yes, he has to go to Dad's house and live by Dad's rules when he does. Period. (I'm *not* saying I agree with either one of you, this is just how the ball bounces with divorce).

You are certainly not going to change Dad's mind about this, from your description, and your son is learning to deal with very different parenting styles, which will benefit him his entire childhood (I'm sure similar issues will come up again and again, where you and your ex disagree) ;-)

Hey, good luck.
t

My main concern here is that nail polish has extremely toxic stuff in it, and younger kids are more likely to be harmed by both the evaporating fumes and absorbing chemicals directly through their thin nails. If your son understands cause and effect, you might explain that this stuff can actually harm his body. He may gradually forget about using it and go on to another stage.

All I have to say is: YOU GO GIRL! Your kid sounds awesome, I have never seen a little boy that at one point didn't want to dress up or put on makeup. My 4 year old gets into my makeup every once in a while, he thinks it hilarious to put on make up then "be mama". He'll even grab a bra and act like me getting ready for work. He'll run around, saying "I gotta get my shirt out of the dryer!" or, "I cant find my keys!". It's all in fun. They all do it. UNLESS your an uptight mother who somehow thinks this may make her kid "weird". God forbid their kid is different than the "in crowd" thats out doing drugs and having sex parties at 13. BTW, my MALE cousin and I used to trade clothes(we're the same age) and wear them when we were kids. I HATED dresses but my mother would make me wear them, and he liked dresses. So we would literally trade clothes, and it made my mom soooo mad, but my aunt thought it was hilarious and would tell my shallow, "appearances are everything" mother to step off. Also, I don't ever remember his toenails NOT being painted this god awful neon pink color when we were little kids. Guess what? He's now in the military, married, with a kid on the way. He is also a GREAT person with a mind of his own. And guess what else? I LOATHE wearing dresses, they make me feel so unnattractive and uncomfortable, and I truly believe it's partly because my mother would force me to wear them-I was a total tomboy. I think that if you shelter your kids from things, or force them to do things, they become fixated on them and are more likely to get involved with whatever it was that you've kept from them, or steer away from what you forced on them. Of course, you do draw the line somewhere, and I make it a point to bring it to my son's attention when some 14 yr olds are acting stupid in the mall(I fully believe other kids can be a PERFECT example of how NOT to act.) They certainly cooled it down after that. You keep letting your boy make his own choices as far as things like that go(of course he'll need guidance with bigger decisions once he gets older)...I think he's going to turn out great.
As for your ex, I think it's complete B.S. that he punishes your baby for having nail polish. Unfortunately, I really don't have any advice to offer, my son's "donor" walked away while I was pregnant, and his Dad(my boyfriend now who's been around since my son was 2 months old) completely agrees with what you are doing and thinks your ex is overreacting.
P.S. Obviously, "you go girl" wasn't all I had to say :) Have a great night.

I know this has become a heated topic but I will just had one little thing for you to maybe think about. If your child will be going to public school when he is ready for kindergarten you might want to find out what sort of "dress code" rules they have and how this might apply. Now I am in Texas so things are more conservative but my children's school (K-6) has a strict no make up policy that applies to girls and boys. Nail polish is overlooked but some girls with nail polish that has been "distracting" have been asked to remove it and not wear it to school again. If the nail polish will be a problem in the future with school rules you might want to start weaning your child off of it now.

Good luck,
K.

I seem to feel that way with my mom, she is very vocal in what she thinks my children should and should not do in this type of situation, and she ends up trying to shame us all EVERY TIME. In this particular situation when my son (will be 4 in 2 months) wants to paint his nails, she has been insufferable. I am open to his freedom of choice, she is NOT. I have started encouraging him to paint his nails with clear polish when he is to go over to gma's house or to school, that way he can still see that he has it on but is less noticeable than say his favorite shimmery purple. Sometimes it's hard to get him to take off the purple and put the clear on but I do it with him and that way our nails look the same, and nice together :)

I try to think of all of the options there are when things like this come up, theres always at least one other option if you think about it hard enough. I hope that you all work through this and are able to figure out your "option."

I would be so frustrated by this. Is restricting visitation if the punishments continue an option? No child should ever be punished for self expression! When my son at age 3 asked me to let him get his ears pieced I said sure! Sometimes the other kids will tell him that earrings are for girls, but my now 4 year old tells them they are mistaken and he loves his earrings. I know grown men that wear nail polish from time to time. This is about letting him be who is wants to be, and that should always be fostered, you are a great mom for not trying to pigeon hole him into some kind of stereotypical gender role. This is a new age and people need to learn to be more open and accepting. If restricting visits is not an option, than I would continue trying to remember to remove the polish before visits and would not worry if this is going behind your Xs back.

Two things first, Who is calling your son a baby at school, the kids or the teachers. If its the kids then your say may just have to live with the consequence of painting his finger nails, but if its the teachers, then you may have different and more serious issue to deal with. I would never let the teachers call my child a baby for doing something as silly as painting his nails. Plus you would think that he would get tired of getting teased by the other kids. OK, second, punishment is a little harsh. I don't think you mentioned what kind of punishment he was getting, but can't he just have your some take of the polish if he doesn't like it.

Now here is my suggestion. Can you somehow come to a compromise and maybe just do his toes. That way they won't be seen and school, which may prevent him from getting teased and maybe dear ol'daddy can live with that because outside of the home it won't be seen either because he will have shoes on. Good luck!!

ok, to all of you moms who are freaking out about his nails. they are NAILS. it is not a big deal at all. He is 4, but it is his body. He understands and realizes the consequences of his actions, but still requests for it to be done. My 4 year old little girl loves soccer, should i not encourage this and take away something she enjoys because it is more meant for "boys"? absolutely not. It is something that she likes that makes her feel good. As far as being teased, no matter what your age in life, you are going to deal with some deal of confrontation over something. The earlier you learn that other people have different opinions and you need to stand up for yourself, the better.

I had a similar issue recently with our daughter. Her name is Cayla. her friends at school were teasing her and telling her it was spelled wrong. It makes a K sound, so its should be Kayla. She was very upset about it. Should i run out and change the spelling? (especially since it spelled with a C is the traditional spelling and K is the modern spelling?) no. I told her that she needs to tell them they are being mean, it is with a C, just like cat, and it is hurting her feelings. She did, and handled it well.

as far as i see, it is his dad that has the issue. so i would send along a bottle of nail polish remover to keep at HIS house, and he can remove it on his own terms. I do not think it is fair to deny your son something that he enjoys just because daddy is stuck in a boy/girl sterio type.

admittedly, my husband wants our son to be a BOY. and so far, he is. I have always been very adamant that our children would not be pressured into gender sterio types. sure enough, my daughter is totally into frilly dresses, painting her nails, make-up, art, ponies and barbies. My son is totally into cars, trucks, tools, getting dirty, etc. Although he does love food, and loves playing with his sister dora kitchen. should i stop that? no. he ENJOYS it. im not going to rob him of that. But i bring up often to my husband, "what if he doesnt want to play football? what is he wants to do marching band? or the school news paper? or poetry club?" cause that is all fine by me!

you are doing great mom! keep it up!

Yes, by taking it off you are teaching to go behind Dad's back.
Dad has a right to some say so as well. I don't think it will stunt his growth or break his spirit not to get his nails polished. I would save my ammo for something more important. Obviously this is a big deal for Dad, silly or not.
We all have our own issues. How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot?

Have you tried having him paint just his toenails? That might be a compromise to help your ex and son get along better but also continue to allow your son the choice of how he decorates his body. His feet are in socks much of the time so the daycare kids and his dad are less likely to notice. There's no shame in him choosing what he looks like but it might stop some of the teasing that he's tolerating now.

i would think it's reasonable to explain that dad has different rules at his house so your son needs to follow those rules. as someone else said, you need to dress appropriately for different situations and occasions and this is one instance where nail polish isn't appropriate. it might be too late to frame it this way since your son already knows that his father disapproves but it might make it feel less like rejection. just keep it matter-of-fact that nailpolish isn't allowed there, just as throwing tantrums, etc isn't. this would also remove the sneaking around and 'us vs. him' mentality.

either way, your son knows that his dad is not accepting of this part of your son. that will probably not change but hopefully this will at least reduce tension and conflict. it's sad when parents can't accept children for who they are. hopefully your son can come to terms with it. i hope everything works out for you.

You're right - he's only 4 and this should not be a big deal at all. I can't believe other kids at his daycare are calling him a baby over it! How old are these other kids? I have all boys as well and my oldest, 3, got me to paint his toes when I was painting mine one day. My husband teased him about it, but I said he could do it if he wanted - there's nothing wrong with it. They're curious and they want to be like us, so it should not be a big deal at all. Maybe you should ask your ex-husband what he's afraid of and why it's such a big deal to him. Instead of feeling like you're going behind his back, I think you should tell him straight up that you will paint Isaac's nails if Isaac wants his nails painted and if that bothers your ex, too bad - your house, your rules. Also, your ex could certainly get a bottle of nail polish remover and take it off if it bothers him that much. My little guy has a lot of girl friends and has dressed in princess dresses and sparkly shoes and his girlfriends have come over and played cars and trucks and wrestled with him.

I don't know about letting a boy paint his nails but I do agree with you letting him make his own choice. If it were me and I was doing what you are doing I would at lest make it clear nail polish... that way if you forget to get it off before he goes to your ex's house he doesn't get in trouble and that way he doesn't get mad fun of. Now as far as your Ex goes you need to talk to him about what you are doing and he and you need to be on the same page especially were discipline is concerned. My husband has an Ex and three children by her and they back each other up were that is concerned and it makes thing better for everyone involved.

So, I'm a little late reading my mamasource, but I say good for you! I remember my sister and I dressing up our little brother in wedding dresses and make up from the time he was about 4 until he was about 7. It was really funny when HIS son was about 3-4 because he wanted to wear fingernail polish, makeup, and high heels. He even had his own dress up box at grandma's. Now, 8 years later, my nephew is a total military, shot-em up, BOY. So is my brother. Being into how things look or feel even if you're a boy does not mean that you will be gay. I have a feeling this is what your ex is scared of. He doesn't want his little boy to be a feminine gay guy when he grows up. It just doesn't happen this way. If I were you, I would try to talk to Dad's mother and see if she can help you and her grandson. Somehow even grown men still have to listen to their moms.

If that doesn't work, or isn't an option, then I would either leave a bottle of remover in Isaac's overnight bag for him to use when he needs to, or get some of those single disposable packs. I don't know if finding research and giving it to your ex would do any good or not, but its an idea. I think the grandma card is probably your best bet. Its a phase that Isaac is going through and good for you for letting him be himself! Way to be a good mom!

Reading your response to the advice you asked for, I wondered why U even bothered bcuz U had ur mind made up already. It is v flippant to brush off advice recommending U "remember" to remove his nail polish b4 going to his father's house as something U R sometimes too busy to remember to do. U know he is being punished for it at his father's house, U R responsible for ur son's well-being while in ur care-- U cannot "forget".

If U paint his nails at ur house, which I, personally, feel is fine... U must "always" remove that polish b4 he goes to his dad bcuz it is just not worth the battle.

Good luck.

what about trying clear polish and/or just putting it on his toes?

Sometimes I have to tell my little girl, Daddy doesn't like that so we can't do it. I think I have to support my husbands decisions as long as they are not harmful by any means. On the flip side of that, sometimes my husband tells her Mommy said no too. Divorced or not, I think it is important to support each other's choices, rules, and decisions...somehow.

I grew up with the good old, girls don't whistle and girls have long hair. Today I have short hair and I whistle. Perhaps Dad turns in his grave, but I am an adult now and can make my own decisions. Dad's rules helped guide me through my childhood and once I was an adult, I made my own choices.

If my mother cut my hair despite my Father's wishes and I was punished for it, I think that would be a lot for me to understand.