"Look Me in the Face"

No advice from me, just thanks for the piece of advice from YOU. That's actually a killer trick I'd never heard of before... but looking things over, it rings really true ESP when my kiddo is upset. Time to try doing it intentionally!! :D

The Way of Boys is a GREAT book that talks about not forcing a boy to look you in the eye. It's probably not the book you're thinking of, because it's fairly recent, but I do recommend it.

It's good for your son to learn to deal with both ways.

He's going to have to look people in the face in his life, so he should learn to be comfortable with it.

That said, I completely agree with the car ride method for boys, and not forcing them to look at you. I have had my best conversations with my sons during those times.

You're doing great, keep it up, and let dad do it his way.

Obviously your son has something that is causing him not to look people in the eye. It can be extreme shyness (which I used to have) or another issue. Many adults don't look others in the eye - it is definitely something you need to learn to do but kids shouldn't be expected to do it all the time.

I read Raising Cain about raising boys and I read How to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen and Listen So Your Kids Will Talk. Both books really helped me with my son. Unfortunately I can't get my husband to read them. Your husband sounds like my husband in that he only wants to handle the situation his way - which causes more fighting and crying - rather than come up with an alternate method. Both these books give alternate methods of doing things so there is more cooperation and less fighting and crying.

Good luck! I hope this helps.

First, you sound like an awesome, aware mom.
From the kids' POV: Don't you all remember being a kid, and just burning with shame and embarrassment when you'd get in trouble? Ugh, I do. I think your method sounds great, S.. Teach the lesson, but skip the humiliation of making him stare into your disappointed, disapproving eyes. That sounds more like domination than respect to me.

If the "look me in the eye" thing is a big deal to your husband, maybe he and your son can discuss / work on some of the positive aspects of this behavior, like looking people in the eye to say hello, shake hands, or pay money. If your husband only brings it up when he wants to chastise your son, then I imagine your son will soon equate "looking people in the eye" with being in trouble, being dominated, and feeling ashamed.
I'm probably just projecting here, but let me say it: Fathers have to learn to meet their children halfway when it comes to communicating. Does your husband want to communicate with his son, or does he want to dominate him? Because sometimes, you just can't have both.

I think that when your child is hurt or sad, then your method is great. If your son has been disrespectful or disobedient, then when he is being corrected by his father or you, then he should look at your face when you are speaking to him. Teachers will expect this in school, & later in life so will his boss. My daughter is also 6, & I expect her to look at me when she is being corrected. Six is not to young to learn how to show respect even if you are shy.

I say try showing your hubby this post, word for word. I think your method with your boys is spot-on. My older son is very much like this. He doesn't like being in the spot-light and it makes him freeze. This includes looking me in the eye.

Your husband should be willing to try something new if what he's currently doing doesn't seem to be working. Maybe try buttering him up with a little bit of lovin' then tell him something like "Honey, I think you're doing a great job with the house and kids. I did notice one thing that makes me uncomfortable though and I'm hoping that you'll listen to my idea and tell me what you think. I've noticed that (son's name) doesn't like looking people in the face when he's hurt or angry. I think it comes mostly from embarassment and not disrespect. I know that when I'm with him, I'll do (this or that) and it really seems to help him open up. I'm wondering if you'd be opposed to trying it.... I think it'd make a world of difference and give you some more peace throughout the day. After all, what have you got to lose?"

I can't imagine him being offended by something like that. Hopefully he'll give it a try.

Best of luck!

I'm having a bit of trouble with this whole "boys" thing--why is it less important to teach a boy to look someone in the eye, especially an intimate family member, than it is to do that with a girl? I admit that I don't HAVE boys--three daughters here!--but we definitely have areas where my partner is a very different parent than I am.

Still, where in US society is it ok to avoid looking at someone? Our culture values looking someone in the eye not only as respect, but as a sign that you are being honest. We have all kinds of terminology in our vernacular that indicates that--"shifty eyed", "won't even look you in the eye", etc. Even if you let your son get away with a sideways glance or not looking at each other, how will that affect him when he is not dealing with you or another family member who understands? What about school? Friends? Future employers?

Since you already have this set up between you and him, and since it is already an issue with his father, can you see how this is problematic? It doesn't help to coddle a child, though it DOES help to show empathy and guide him gently to accept more direct approaches to communication without forcing it on him all at once.

He will need to be taught ways to handle that--and it may take some time and compromise between you and your husband's extremes of doing things so that your son can feel safe gradually opening up to looking at people. I'm not suggesting you push it cold turkey.

But it doesn't help to triangulate the family, either.

You're describing one of the two problems I have with requiring a child to apologize, whether or not he actually feels he was wrong about the distress that devolved into a tantrum in the first place: he's cornered in a win-lose scenario, and he has no choice but to lose to bigger, stronger, more forceful people. In his moment of defeat he's required to be polite and gracious about it. If it's not sincere, he's got to put on a false front, and apologize anyhow. For your husband to demand, in addition, that he do something that is emotionally uncomfortable as proof of "respect," the humiliation may simply be more than any human with a shred of self-respect could tolerate. Hence, another tantrum.

What you're describing is a childhood nightmare that I and my three younger sisters endured many times a week, and all of us found it harmful to our own emotional well-being and our long term relationships with our very strict mother. She was so bound to her ideas about obedience and discipline she was utterly blind to how her parenting style was shredding our sense of self-worth and dignity. By the time my mother was through with us, we all had to learn from scratch how to recognize what we wanted, learn how to say no, to a stepdad, our boyfriends, spouses, bosses, abusers and rapists. Though a boy's experience will be different in many details, I really don't think it's likely to be that different in spirit.

Even if your husband were to be more kind and courteous about it, saying perhaps "Billy, will you look in my face, please, son?" the request would be somewhat more tolerable. But from the sound of it, your child is being required to grovel after a forced surrender. Daddy may even still look quite stern and angry, which is not at all the picture of forgiveness that your son is supposed to be asking for.

Kids are not some special, lesser category of persons with no feelings, dignity, or sense of justice. In fact, young kids probably have a more finely tuned sense of all three than most adults, who have been forced, in their childhoods, to make the sad but necessary adjustments.

To fail to notice or support our children's basic emotional needs is, to me, one of the purest tragedies of human existence, and is the crooked foundation of so much suffering passed on from one generation to the next. I hope you will read the book by John Gottman titled Raising an Emotionally Intelligent Child. It's illuminating. Because it's not just hand-waving theory, but instead based on research that studies how well kids actually do growing up with different parenting styles, your husband may even be interested in reading it.

And another fabulous book, which I am reading for the third time because it's been so effective with my grandson, is How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Faber and Mazlish. I can't recommend these two resourced highly enough. These brilliant insights and techniques have virtually eliminated my grandson's need to act out, disobey or tantrum. He's a happy and radiant little boy, supported by courteous parents who simply live what they want him to learn. And he does.

Incidentally, the other reason I think forced apologies are a mistake is that we're teaching our kids to lie as a form of social expediency. Say you're sorry, whether it's true or not, so you can resume normal life, come to dinner, or go back to playing. Not nearly as healthy as parents modeling sincere apology, nor as effective.

As for looking people in the face, I'm astonished to hear how many moms consider that a requirement of polite society. There are very few people in the world I can look in the face for more than a second or two. But people let me know they trust and respect me anyway, so I guess "shifty-eyed" is a matter of interpretation.

Check out this book- "Happiest toddler on the Block", and have your husband read it too. They are kids- not men yet... He can start the "respect" training when they get older....

Best luck!

I TOTALLY understand both sides! (And this is more common in boys, but my oldest daughter had a really huge issue with this, too.)

I would talk to your husband and come up with some kind of middle ground - maybe a phrase like, "Yes, sir," that they must deliver with eye contact, but not requiring eye contact the whole time.

Many different books (or magazines or whatever) describe this behavior, so it shouldn't be too hard to Google it or whatever, and give your husband something to read about it. Men need data, and will often accept it from an expert more readily than they'll accept it from their wives.

Hmmmm...a lot of interesting comments here.

First of all, the mom who wrote that our culture expects people to look eye to eye is spot on. In our culture, NOT doing this is a sign of dishonesty or "hiding something." However, in the case of your husband, it comes off to me more as a control technique, more than a sign of respect.

Here's what came to my mind, as a mom who has this problem with her youngest son...

First, if your husband feels a "message" needs to be delivered, he needs to do it in a calm fashion (this is very hard for me). My son and I will sit on my bed, side by side, and we each say our piece. To make sure my son is listening, I ask questions so he can say back to me what he just heard me say. This confirms the "listening" happened. If the listening hasn't happened, I repeat the message until such time as he does prove listening. (Sometimes this has gone in to a spell of "sit in your room with nothing to do" until he chooses to listen...those are long days.)

Second, your husband needs to confirm understanding of the message. Have him ask your son some more questions, ones that will allow your son to put it in his own words.

Remind your husband to keep the message short and sweet. At 6, your son can do this exercise, but short and sweet helps. Also, it helps to keep the message positive, such as "I will focus" versus "I won't forget to clean my room."

Last but not least, have your husband say, "look me in my eyes" and when your son does so, "Son, I love you. I know you can do this." Hug time and then life goes on as normal.

I know this sounds convoluted but it's worked very well for my kids. It also broke down my son's fear of looking me in the eyes.

Hope this helps,
Steph :)

I just read through all of the responses & one thing I didn't see was anyone asking why. Why doesn't your son want to look anyone in the eye? Not what you think might be his reason, but what he says his reason is. Yes, we've all been taught that if you aren't looking at someone, then you aren't listening or that it's disrespectful. My son doesn't look me in the eye either. But, I've witnessed the fact that even though he isn't looking me in the eye, he IS listening. It has also been suggested that my son might have Asperger's. Along with several other things, not looking someone in the eye is a clue used to diagnose Asperger's. Not saying this is your son, but almost everyone below is talking about disrespect & not listening. That may not be the issue at all. Talk to you son. See what he says about why he's not doing it. Remember, respect is a 2-way street. If your husband wants your son to respect him, he has to respect your son.

what I have read, is that kids believe if they aren't looking at you, they can pretend they don't hear what you are saying.
I make the kids look me in the eye when I am telling them something important. My girls are pretty good about it, but when babysitting our nephew and also a friend's son (both about 3 years old), you wouldn't believe how difficult it is to get them to look at me when I am talking to them. They will divert their eyes in every which way, it's so frustrating.

i have a husband that has a lot harsher style than i prefer too...but i don't think it's all bad. your husband is unlikely to change but talk to him honestly (when you are away from the boys) and point out how intimidating he is to them. on the other hand, i was always a very shy person (still am!) but i learned the gift of looking someone in the eye and faking confidence, and it has been helpful countless times. if he could ask more gently and make sure his face is open and warm and welcoming when they do look into it, it would help. i do ask my son to look at my eyes, but that's because i want him to see the love there and that i'm not mad. i know how hard it can be to meet someone's eyes, but it is a skill that is highly valuable, in my opinion. my son tends to be shy like me sometimes, and i want him to know that looking someone in the eye takes strength, and that he has that strength.

Yep, one of those things where you may just have to sit back and accept his parenting style.
My husband has a similar thing and though it's hard for me to hold back, I try not to step in.

Maybe you can talk to your hubby in private and check with him whether there are some situations in which he can let go a little?

Good luck!

If your son is shy, then looking in anyone's face for that matter is counterproductive and making it worse. My son is shy and I notice when I tell him to look at me, he will look at me, but get really upset and mostly because of the confrontation. The other part is because he is really sorry he messed up. I think your husband should realize he is not being rude to not look at him in the face and just wait until the incident has died down and then when he is calm, tell him to look at him - I think at that time he will not associate his actions with the discipline, but rather his dad advising him what he should or should not do next time.

Well, I don't think you can really take any side. But, what you could do is take a car ride with your husband and explain to him how you are feeling and how your son reacts to you when you parent the way that you do. My husband and I are polar opposites when it comes to parenting, and I often talk to him about what works for me and try to give examples. Unfortunately for me, I have learned that he will not parent like me....no matter what I do! So, my boys get to learn that different people have different styles.
Dad needs to be the one going into the room and talking to the son about why he got sent there. it almost sounds like you are overriding his authority...which I know is not what you are trying to do. But, I think that since what your husband is doing is not abusive in any way (which I also make my boys look me in the face. It is a sign of respect) that you need to step back and let dad parent how he sees fit.
Again, I get where you are coming from...I am also there a lot of the times. Try and take your husband out and speak with him...slowly and in a low voice. That way it doesn't sound like you are attacking him. But then let him make up his own choice on whether to take your way or go about his own.
I send you patience!
L.

have you tried talking to your husband and explaining to him that you son has trouble looking him in the face let the boy be comfortable eventually he will grow up enough to do that tell him to relax the boy wil grow up faster thatn he can hope is posable good luck raised 4 and now have 7 grandchildren A. no hills

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have you tried talking to your husband and explaining to him that you son has trouble looking him in the face let the boy be comfortable eventually he will grow up enough to do that tell him to relax the boy wil grow up faster thatn he can hope is posable good luck raised 4 and now have 7 grandchildren A. no hills

I can see both sides to this disagreement. It is important for your son to learn that it is important to look people in the eye when they are speaking, whether he is in trouble or not. It is something that will be expected of him as he goes to school, plays sports, and someday when he has a job. Maybe you can work with your husband and take baby steps to get your son to make eye contact. Try to come up with some kind of signal they can uses to show that he is listening and understanding his dad. For example it can start with a thumbs up if you are listening and then slowly move on to looking at his shoulder, to looking at his forehead, and then to making eye contact. I don't have boys, but it just seems like a way to compromise and help your son overcome his shyness. Good luck!