Living with Intensity- Volume, Setting and Reminders.

The job of a parent is to Role Model - over and over and over and over and over.

Ignore her when she's loud. Remove her from the setting and remind her to quiet down.

Reward her with attention when she uses a normal voice.

Tell her you will not tolerate loud, or bratty, or disruptive attention seeking tones, as that is precisely what she is doing. And stick to it. You must respond appropriately at all times. She gets to be 6. You do not.

P.S. NO chart will ever correct this. Only you can. If anything, consider having her hearing tested.

I think this is something you will be asking of her for life. My mother speaks very loudly and I am constantly asking her to stop yelling. She will come up with many excuses but it is just the way she is. My daughter (who is 8) will also speak loudly and I have to remind her to tone it down.

I do notice that they do it when they are excited about something.

As far as clean up that should get better with age and reminding her. My daughter still leaves things out but I think that's part of being a kid. I too have to remind her about the basic things and I think that's an age thing, my SD was the same way at that age.

I have a chore chart that has basic things listed on it but we don't use it often, I usually forget to mark it and its faster to just remind her verbally.

Most parents go over indoor voice when the children are toddlers. A six year old, it is habit by now.

Stop letting your kids run your house and start being the parent. If you can't get them under control by the time they are ten you will not get control as teens. Ya know, this has always been my general guideline but you have been so indulgent with your children I really don't know if you have a chance at almost seven to get that one under control.

About the only suggestion I have is get them in school so they can learn structure. Clearly your homeschooling lacks any semblance to structure. A child cannot learn how to structure themselves if they were never taught structure. You are putting your kids on a bike never letting them ride with training wheels and asking us why they keep falling down. This is not rocket science.

My normal kids? Ha! You talking about the ADHD or the one with autism? Lord, you don't get it, if my kids can control themselves it should be easy for your perfect brilliant children.

Your daughter isn't intense, she is spoiled.

Wouldn't want to lose your first what happened,

"My kids do not run my house. Please. My 5 year old understands inside/outside voices, and my toddler is learning,. My oldest, well, she is intense. I need suggestions for intense kids, not your normal kid."

Perhaps that is your problem right there. You have such as sense of entitlement that you actually think you can tell someone they can't respond to you. Sorry but if other people are going to read your questions I am going to answer them honestly so other people understand how bad your parenting is.

Wow, good luck. I just taught my kids the difference between their inside voice and outside voice and they were cognizant enough to get it.
Even my very outgoing and impulsive ADHD girl, most of the time.
As far as the reminders, well motherhood is tedious and monotonous isn't it?
Which is why most of us send our kids to school once they are old enough, and spend our days pursuing our own careers, hobbies and interests.
It takes a village, but at this point, J. my dear, YOU are the village.
So like I said, good luck with that.

I'm sad to see that yet another Mamapedia question has dissolved into such arguments. Why can't people keep their character assaults to themselves?

I think a 6.5 year old is going to go nuts with too many charts. I think "clean up" is a series of sequential tasks, so it's okay for a child to need a few prompts to a) put things in the bins and b) put the bins away. Kids need reminders. Do you have a definite structure and routine, perhaps one that needs a little more tweaking?

I see nothing in your profile or you past few questions that indicates you are homeschooling, as suggested in one of the responses below. Perhaps I missed something? I can't tell if this is a problem all day long because you are her teacher as well as her mom, or if this the "after hours" behavior. If you are home schooling, then you have to have definite routines that distinguish "school" from "family". If she sees you as "Mom" only, she can get a little confused. If she's in public or private school, she has routines all day long. Sometimes kids rebel against that at home - they're tired and they don't feel like putting the bins away. You have to be careful about how much you expect from a 6 year old in the course of the day.

You made reference in a prior post to her advanced reading level. Be cautious that you don't mistake a super reader, especially one with a big vocabulary, for a child who is mature beyond her years. She may be a 4th or 5th grade reader, but she's a first grader in other ways (and that can include a lack of maturity below "grade level").

That said, you still need some techniques for

I think the thing to do is to stop responding to the high volume and intensity, and take away what she wants (and is getting): attention! The more she is over the top in volume, the more you get after her. So she's getting a huge reward for it. Take that away. Stop telling her to tone it down, stop instructing her about what different settings and expecting her to understand. She gets NOTHING if she is loud or inappropriate. No charts, just walk away. "I cannot talk to you when you when you are loud."

I think you are excusing her constantly by using terms like "exuberance" and "wonder of living" show great appreciation of her, but give her tremendous excuses for doing whatever she wants.

Choose your battles. You have a child who is devouring books but doesn't have time to flush the toilet? The books are her currency - they are what she gets when she does what she is supposed to. Decide on 3 things that are essential right now. Maybe they are volume, toilet and hand washing. Stop with those, and ignore clean-up and all the other things you want her to do. Stop "going crazy" and try to focus. If you focus, she will see the value of focusing. If you are all over the place with lists and requirements and charts, she will be all over the place with her behavior.

Scale it back.

And remember, she is 6!!! You've just got to be more reasonable in your expectations.

From the time the kids could talk we were very clear on what is an inside voice and what is an outside voice. If they get too loud inside when it's not appropriate the conversation ends until they can talk at a reasonable level. "Talk to me when you can stop talking so loud." When we say you need to be quiet because people are sleeping they know to talk quietly. We often have later evenings when we get home after the bedtime of some of our immediate neighbors. They know to respect that our neighbors would prefer to not be woken by our activity. My oldest is 13 and I still have to remind him sometimes if he gets super excited though. It's a part of the job of being a parent. Cleaning up, same thing. I have to remind my husband now and again and catch him having left out some of the fixings of lunch still sitting out on the counter when we're all done. In fair turnaround, I've been reminded now and again when I forget to follow through on something. My husband has a reminder set on his phone to remind me to take my weekly medication because I get so busy and wrapped up that I totally forget. I take it on a Saturday so it's no wonder I sometimes forget.
By almost 7 she should understand what indoor and outdoor voices are. Reminding her though will still have to happen. Same with every day things. I still have to remind my 5 year old to wash her hands after using the bathroom. It's part of my job as a parent.

ETA: I saw your SWH. My 13 year old *is* intense. Believe me! He still knows. I have to remind him a bit more than my other 2 and he can get louder than anyone else in the house. The only thing I do differently is I am extra vigilant to keep at it and not let it slide.

I have to chuckle. It seems to me that you aren't going to consider anything but charts and post its when all of the posts have suggested other ways to do this. Not one post focused on charts and post its. I know your question was asking if we thought they'd work. We suggested other ways most likely because from your description of your daughter we think she needs something different. You have suggestions from several experienced moms.you say that you have structure etc but your post indicates that what you're doing now isn't working. Oh well! I do wonder why people ask questions when they already know what they're going to do.

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When this behavior gets out of hand and causes parent to be overwhelmed or feel any negative emotion it's time for parent to require quieter and less or different activity. Doing this not only helps you feel better but it also teaches the child to be aware of others needs. It teaches sympathy. And if there behavior is out of control it teaches appropriate behavior. It is not good to allow children to do whatever they want. They need structure and you need peace. Actually they also need peacefull behavior. They need rules with consistent consequences now so they will behave when older. Parents who haven't provided this usually have difficulty with teens. Consider the future and how to prepare for it.

Sounds like you don't give consequences for this behaviour. I suggest that if you stop her with a consequence every time if she doesn't lower her voice that she will learn.

Do you have a few rules that you enforce with a consequence? Do you notice and compliment them when they do the right thing? I suggest you need to do both. I suggest you show her over and over the volume of an indoor voice. Be consistent by requiring an inside voice all the time in the house. Take a few days to establish this pattern. Let your chores slide over and over stop her when her voice is too loud and when she is too rambunctious.

Establishing a routine will help reduce the reminders. Spend the time to consistently enforce the rules. When they don't put the boxes away go get them and require they do that. Perhaps reward them with an activity, a sticker if they love stickers. I gave my daughter a journal/notebook for her to put stickers on and to draw or decorate on. I gave stickers every time she did something good. You can reward them after they accumulate so many stickers. We seldom had dessert so the reward was dessert.

Notice what is important to her and use it as a reward for a few weeks. Change it up from time to time.

Yes, she's exuberant and excited about life. Now is when you teach her when her actions/loud voice is appropriate and when it's not appropriate. Teach her skills to help her manage her voice/energy. Do you have quiet times when everyone has to be quiet? That will help.

The most important thing to do is enforce the rule; with appropriate consequences every day. Praise her when she uses a quiet voice even if it's been only a few minutes.

As to having to remind them this is the way kids are. Remind them only once or twice and then have a consequence when it's not done. Tell them ahead of time what you will be doing and consistently follow thru. You can include the 5 and 7 yo while making plans. Give them the goal and ask them how you all can reach it.

There are many good books that will help in being a parent. I love the Love and Logic ideas. Jane Nelson has written several helpful books. Parenting a Spirited Child is also helpful.

She's 6.
Ha Ha HA!
(sorry - got a crazed sort of giggle going on here)
You are only just getting started!
You are the designated walking talking reminder-bot for the next 6 to 8 YEARS - and some teens need it a few years longer than that.
Get comfortable with it because if there were any shortcuts for this the patent holder would be a freaking millionaire.

Just this year - our son - now 16 - SOMETIMES takes the trash and recycling out without being reminded or asked.
He's getting there - but we still have to remind him - and he's got a lot going on and a lot to keep track of.
My Mom says you're finally an adult when you see something that needs doing and you JUST DO IT.
It's just going to take time for a 6 yr old to get there.
Be patient with her - she's growing as fast as she can!

Sadly I can't help you with the volume thing. My entire family is loud and yell-y, sometimes in joy, sometimes in frustration, sometimes in simple conversation. LOUD.

I think, as far as reminding goes, that your little girl is pretty normal (as normal as my girls were, at least). When my girls were that age, I had to remind them of everything, all day long. FOR YEARS.

Then, one day, I asked "Did you brush your teeth?" "Yep" "Did you put the cap back on the toothpaste?" "Yep". And then, a couple of years later, it was "Did you remember to put away your clean clothes?" "Yep". "Did you remember to load the dish..." "Yep, mommy, I already did!" And so on. And THEN, one day, my daughter sat me down and said "Mommy, you don't have to remind me anymore. I *always* do that." Each child got their turn telling me to back off. So I did. But it took YEARS and when they were each 6/7, *absolutely* I had to remind them of everything. It took a lot of patience, but it sure paid off - hang in there!

My observation is that the loudest, most obnoxious (you can call it exuberance if it makes you feel better, but truly, they're just obnoxious) children are of two types: A child who is a bit spoiled, gets a bit too much attention, because they are soooooo very special and everything they do is sooooooo very special, and has been raised to believe that their Super Special Status means they are entitled to everyone else's attention at all times. Or, there's the second type, a emotionally neglected child who only gets attention from mom and dad when they are being loud, annoying and obnoxious.

So, I would take a close look at which road your child is on and make careful adjustments to your parenting and interaction to curb the behavior that is simply a result of your parenting techniques.

Cleaning up all the way is a long process of repetition and consistency. You model what "right" looks like on several occasions, then you have her help you to do it right the next time, and then you watch her do it right several times after that, and then you start reducing the level of supervision. Eventually you'll get to a point where you're just checking her work. And after a time of consistently correct results, you won't have to check any longer.

Truly, no chart or system of goals or reminding and reminding and reminding is going to do it. You have to engage instead of jumping straight to the reduced supervision phase.

Also, a scrum chart wouldn't be appropriate even if charts DID work for teaching children appropriate behavior (studies show they don't). Because a scrum chart requires that you know the actual amount of work required to meet the goal. When dealing with behavior....you don't lnow how long it's going to take to change the behavior. You can't chart how many hours you have left to work until she's met the goal of not being loud. Sorry!

Good luck.

My beautiful, intelligent 5 year old niece is like your daughter, at least how you are describing her here. My sister and brother-in-law would tell you it's because my brother taught her to scream early on...that's why she is loud. She is intense because she has a big personality. Wild, passionate, and intense are also words used to describe her.

Here's the truth of her though (and I love this child with all of my heart): her parents made her this way.

My sister was young when she had her (20 - same age I was when I had my first) and my brother-in-law was 22 (not married then). They let my niece get whatever she wanted whenever she wanted. If they punished her and she cried, they apologized. She wasn't made to be respectful to others around her on a regular and consistent basis. They made a lot of mistakes IN MY OPINION when she was a toddler and learning how to behave, what was right and wrong, what she could/could not do, and how to react to situations correctly. They are having some trouble with her in school now because she is loud, wild, passionate - but it's because they didn't do what was necessary when she was little and truly learning how to behave.

Sorry if that's harsh - but I see the same thing you are describing and I can tell you it's because she was taught that way. This is her normal. You need to definitely lay down the law, not back down, and go from there. Expect tears, expect her to be mad at you, expect it to be hard. But that's parenting - it would have been much easier to do this when she was a toddler.

Good luck.

ha! my spare son and my younger boy both have volume issues! i'm getting harder and harder of hearing as i get older, but they both still blow me out of the room!
you may need to up the ante a little, say, send her out of the room if she's hurting your ears, really make her work at it to communicate at a more civilized volume. it's a risk- it could cause her to stop wanting to communicate at all if she's always being cut off. but she doesn't sound as if she's easily discouraged<G>.
no clue what a scrum chart is.
the clean-up? well, she's awfully young. i know these years when your littles are SO little and up in your grill non-stop it seems endless, but it's not. if she's putting the objects in the right containers, you're off and running in the right direction. small steps.
:) khairete
S.

I would start scheduling a mindfulness practice/meditation into your daily routine. It might be able to help teach her to quiet her body and thoughts.

I would also give her lots of opportunities to get the energy out when it's appropriate, many times a day.

Your guess is as good as mine when it comes to cleaning up, putting away. :)

My DD is also very loud this year and we honestly wonder if her hearing needs to be checked. Her teachers say that all the kids get loud over the course of the day, so could it be partially because of the noise in class? We tell DD "You're being very loud. Can you speak softer?" We try not to yell at her in return, but we also try to get her to realize "I'm right here. Please do not be so loud. It hurts my ears." I feel your pain. Or my ears do. I do not remember her sister being this loud.

With clean up, I'd take a look at what needs to be cleaned. I often find I cannot say, "Clean your room." But I can say "Put all the stuffed animals in the bin." So break it down and give her direction. You may need to both make a list AND verbally remind her. Think about how she learns and what works best. Does she work independently from lists? If not, don't bother with a long checklist. If you see that the bins are filled, thank her for that and remind her that they go x place. Or you can say, "DD, the bins are not put away" and let her figure out that you mean "they need to go here". I'll do that with lights. I won't say "DD turn your light off" but I'll say "DD, your light is on" to get her to think, "Hey, I forgot something..."

If you are going mad now, wait til she's 11 or 15 and her brain is a sieve. It's even worse. And remember, nevermind what the other kid does or how the other kid learns. SHE is unique (yay) and you need to meet her where she does best. My DD is tactile, so sometimes having her write a list or write a reminder helps. It's not the list, it's the writing. It's hard for me sometimes because I am so auditory. Their big bro never gave us trouble in this regard (cleaning, etc.) but he had his own vices, like procrastination....

I just want to point out I think this is very much an age thing. My daughter is 7 and the volume control is a major issue. I remember my niece, who is 2 years older, was SO loud. I told my sister I thought she must have a hearing problem or something. fast forward a couple years and my 9 year old niece is now pleasant and serene, and my own 7 year old is the crazy loud one.

This too shall pass.
Not that you can't work on it though.

And yes, clean up is a struggle. They need a lot of training in this area. It's constant. your hard work training her will pay off someday.

Don't know if I'm repeating, but these are my ideas:

1. When she is loudest, respond in a quiet voice, with a slightly slower pace. After a bit of conversation, her brain will quiet down a bit. When it works, enjoy the conversation and after it is over, mention how nice it was to have a "relaxed" conversation. (Keeping it subtle and positive.)

2. Practicing whispering may not be helpful. It's not that she doesn't know how to speak quieter, it's that her brain is not yet wired to monitor her volume when she has a message she really wants to share. See #1.

3. Clean up is interesting in many households. We often found that doing it together was helpful, expecially with children who were the most social. We'd just set a timer for 10 minutes and pick up everything we could during that time. I don't know about you, but in most households our children are dealing with many more toys and possessions than I had as a child, and clean up can be overwhelming for many.

All my best.

It's time to get her involved in a youth theater company, I can suggest something in Chicago if you like. A friend of mine is very involved in theater at that level there. Theater training will teach her volume control and give her an outlet for her exuberance, and she will find others like her.

My kids are messy, they just are. As long as they keep it contained in their rooms, and clean those rooms a few times a year, I call it a draw.

I will sometimes do a little chore chart for my kids, 4 and 6...they actually like it. It has "make your bed" "put dirty clothes in hamper" "carry dishes into kitchen" (after eating) "put toys away". I draw pictures for each job and they actually like checking it and checking off what they've done. It hangs on the fridge. Keep it simple, I wouldn't put reminders everywhere. As far as her voice goes, if she's not intentionally being rude and she's just naturally loud then just work with that. Give her gentle reminders to keep her voice down as needed and remind yourself that it's okay, is she really that loud? Maybe get her hearing checked like you mentioned.

I like Talkstotrees' idea of enrolling her in youth theatre--it sounds like the perfect fit for her temperament and could teach her some skills she needs, as well as putting her into a community of people with whom she might click. Of course, you still need to work on a logical consequence for yelling-- 'my brain shuts down and can't hear you when you yell; please say it again more softly' and having to leave the room if she persists. It's easier said than done, I know... I have attitude and some yelling issues with our daughter, and it does not change overnight. She does hate having to leave my presence, so it may also be your daughter's currency.

Messiness... that one goes with the territory of young people. Logical consequences again are that things which are left out disappear. Apparently they weren't valued, so they went away (you can return them after whatever time you consider appropriate, or after the public spaces are cleaned up. Toilet flushing, that's a tough one. Anyway, good luck with it! They are growing up and will continue to become more civilized.

When she's loud, don't just remind her. Stop her in her tracks.

Interrupt to hush her and tell her she can continue speaking only if she uses a volume that doesn't hurt your ears.

If she seems to not even be trying, then send her to her room to practice lowering her voice. She can be around people when she makes the effort to not be annoying.

The reward for getting it under control isn't a sticker on a chart, is it being allowed to socialize with others.