Kindergarten Aged Boy Not Potty Trained

Have you looked into allergy testing? My son who is now 9 had been wetting the bed almost every night since he got potty trained at age 3. I asked numerous doctors about it and they all told me "he will grow out of it" you can try using potty alarms, etc.. I tried everything then I noticed that on the weekends when he wouldn't drink much milk that he wouldn't pee the bed. Low and behold, when I cut milk products out of his diet he stopped wetting the bed at night. He still has the occasional accident but 99% of the time he doesn't wet anymore. His behavior also got much better. He didn't have tantrums anymore and was MUCH more focused on his schoolwork and on other things I'd ask him to do. I was really frusterated that NO doctor EVER mentioned that an allergy could be the problem. When I looked up milk allergy I found a ton of information that confirmed that he was probably allergic to milk. Anyway, I don't know if that helps at all just wanted to let you know my experience and something else to maybe look at...I've never went and got him formally tested because I've seen the results I need to confirm his allergy! Good luck to you :)

I would definitely ask the school to evaluate him. At the very least, they may have teachers who can give you advice on things you can do at home to prepare him for school. My son(who has Aspergers/ADHD) was tested when he was 3. At first they said he's smart, nothing's wrong, but then they decided he needed to be in pre-k(in Texas it was called PPCD). They spent the year before kindergarten working with him on how to hold the pencil, how to interact with other kids, etc. In 2nd grade he is still having a lot of trouble with writing, has an aide with him most of the day, and attends an after-school social skills group.

You are entitled to an early intervention evaluation in the public school system (any child over the age of three is eligible). Contact your local public school and tell them you want to have him tested for the full range of issues that they test for (everything from speech to gross motor). Although I don't think there's any reason to lose sleep over this at the moment, I think your doctors are not being proactive enough. I found that even when my son was in the NICU at birth, surrounded by experts, I had to be his strongest advocate and fight for certain tests and procedures. The doctors actually encouraged parent advocacy because they know that parents know their children best. Get him evaluated, and if they find issues, they will put a plan together for dealing with any issues he may have. The sooner the better, since early development is so crucial to development later on. All the best to you and your family!

Hi, first off your child is only 5. Why don't you consider holding him back a year ( you said his birthday is in Dec) there are many kids who are held back a year and do much better because they are more mature. It's amazing at this age 6 months make a huge difference in maturity. He has enough socialization with siblings in the house.
Second, i have experienced this issue first hand with my 6 year old daughter. She was having "accidents" in kindergarten and first grade. Her pediatrician said it was normal when she was 5, since it didn't get better when she went into 1st grade i took her to a urologist. The bottom line and what really helped was getting her on a "pee" schedule. I bought her a watch that has an alarm from the bedwetting store on line. I set the timer to correspond with her recess and lunch and reminded the teacher she had to let my daughter go the bathroom at those times. It was miraculous, it only took a few days for her to stop having accidents. The idea is that he might need some help figuring out when he needs to go, like someone else said he might need to be shown that he doesn't need to pull his clothes off to go to the bathroom. He might need a little bit of extra help in that department. Using a reminder will get him on a schedule. Once his bladder gets used to a schedule things will fall into place. My daughter seldom has accidents and doesn't tolerate being wet anymore, where as before it didn't bother her to be wet because she didn't recognize it as being uncomfortable.
Third, maybe your son is a little immature for his age, which is not a bad thing. He is on his own timeframe and should not be pushed. Some kids are more playful and not that interested in sitting down to learn. Using positive reinforcement is better for these kids. If you put him in school before he is ready it might be too demanding for him and he will get discouraged. Consider waiting until he is 6 for kindergarten. If you have any other questions contact me. I have had success with my daughter and i understand the concern of the potty training.

gosh, he just sounds a bit young for his age. i can't use the word immature because all kids are immature. he doesn't like to hold the pencil. a lot of kids can't hold crayons properly in kindergarten (i didn't know this until i heard other moms say about their kids when mine started kindergarten). he sounds like a jolly boy. why are you so eagerly seeking to find something wrong with him? labeling him won't do you or him any help, unless you want to put him on medication.
you may be distracted by all the kids you have, maybe he just needs more time and more concentration on the potty. boys potty train quite differently and with more difficulty than girls. register him for kindergarten then dedicate this summer to potty training him and spending more one on one time with him (address pencil holding, colors, shapes etc). so what if he enters kindergarten not knowing his numbers or colors? let him learn it there.
there are many reasons to withhold someone a year from school. this is not one of them.
good luck

You might look into alternative schools, too. If he is not sitting down and learning for you, it's doubtful he will in anything resembling an academically oriented kindergarten. Here in Portland, we are entering the last couple of weeks for applying to charter schools ... and we can register at our neighborhood school and un-register or register at another public school later (for example, if we got into a charter off a wait list in July). My kids are at a Waldorf-methods gradeschool and kindergarten there looks SOOOOO much different than the kindergarten my first went to at our local Catholic school ... and frankly, that's why we are there: it was very obvious from about 14 months of age that my second child would die in a 'normal' classroom, with all the visual and social stimulus and the focus on neurologically age-inappropriate skills like reading.

Anyhow, 'nother island heard from, here. (I also advocate simply keeping him home and letting him get his brain organized, forget the schooling part for now, and start him in kindergarten a year "late" but a year happier and better adjusted.)

I agree with your sense that the doctors should be helping at this point. I knew a family whose child didn't train himself until nearly five, and I know plenty of bedwetters, but the daytime thing seems enough out of place that someone should check it out. Is there a medical program at UW that might be willing to check this out? OHSU offers all sorts of things regular doctors don't ... often on a sliding scale of some sort.

You've gotten a lot of advice on the urological and developmental subjects. On the issue of Kindy registration, I'd register now and decide later. You can make your decision right up until the day school starts. Go to orientation and even see if you can set up a meeting with a Kindy teacher and/or the principal to discuss your situation. I agree with checking with the early intervention department of your school district and meeting with a urologist.

Does he pee standing or sitting? My son did the clothes off thing until we showed him how to pee without having to pull his pants down at all. As far as the learning issue - my son has a short attention span but I give him fair warning that we are going to do some "school work" and then I sit with him for 10 min or so and work with him on drawing shapes or letters. The rest of the learning (colors, letters, etc) we do during the day just by interaction and so it doesn't seem like "school time".

If you are concerned, get him tested by a developmental peditrician or pediatric neurologist. If you don't want to go this route, you can get him tested for free through the school system to see if he is having learning issues.

Also, I had lots of luck by sending my kiddo to a play therapist.

I found that you really have to push the peditrician because they tend to want to wait around. However, if there is a problem you want to address it before he does become that kid "who streaked naked in the hallway". LOL!

Go with your instinct and do what you think is right for your kid. The worst that can happen is that you find out that you were worrying for nothing!

he may not be suited for regular public school. He may be very into other activities that don't fit into the normal school cariculum as well. I should know, I was one of them. I've heard that the free school or other alternative schools work better for kids like that. But I couldn't say since I don't know him. I would also get him seen by a homeopath. Ours is great ###-###-#### if you're interested, she's great & affordable, treated our son numerous times for behavioral issues with great success & no drugs. good luck...it seems like you might have a very unique & special child on your hands, such a blessing, just don't expect him to behave like other kids & embrace his uniqueness. Take care

Now a days, children coming into kindergarten are expected to know their colors, recognize and identify shapes, know how to write their name, and be able to count from 1 to 25. I can remember being taught those things in kindergarten way back when, but as time has progressed, so have the expectations. You say your son's birthday is in December. Did he already turn 5 to start kindergarten in the fall of 2010 or will he turn 5 in Dec 2010? If he will be 5 in 2010, don't sign him up for kindergarten. Get him into preschool, and maybe one that can help with his attention span issues. You might want to take him for an assessment where he can be evaluated in your school district, in mine it was called Child Find. We self-identified my middle son as in need of speech and fine motor skills. So they helped with speech therapy, OT and PT services. This happened for us when he was 3 and a half. There were older children in the class and everyone got the attention that was needed, and it was a wide spectrum of services.

If he were my son, I would take him to see an urologist. His nerve development just isn't there yet to give him control over his bodily functions or he's in need of a therapist to help with the behavior issues. It's so hard to identify, but don't stop looking. You are his best advocate for help and the best one to hold him accountable for his behaviors, outside his siblings. :o) Routines, expectations, acceptable behaviors and then consistent consequences for good and bad behaviors. You need to be consistent at all times.

I wish you well!!

I think the issues you've expressed should be addressed. If your pediatrician won't deal with the issue, then I think you need to either a) get new pediatrician or at least a second medical opinion or b) contact the school for an evaluation.

However, about kindergarten, I think you need to send your son. The issues you are addressing should not affect his education. In fact, an educational environment may finally get him the help he needs!

You don't mention if he's in school now? If so, talk to those teachers for help. If not, then maybe a little "peer pressure" at school will help him to get onboard.

I am not at all suggesting that you caused this! I have seen other boys who consistently show potty training issues at home, but miraculously at day care or preschool do just fine. It appears that they know what they can get away with at home and the teachers simply have too many other kids that they don't "baby" them.

Have you tried treating him like he's in school? As in, stick to a schedule, take frequent breaks for potty, don't allow the undressing, have him sit a the table to do "homework" while the bigger kids do theirs, etc.? I realize this may seem like "too much" for him, but how do you know if you don't try?

I agree that kindergarten is still a ways off. You have a lot of time to work with him on "acting like a big boy". Until you find out if he can be evaluated by the school, I'd try to start working with him on your own to listen to a story, if he gets up, tell him, we're not done yet, please sit back down. Same thing for "homework" - here I'm just talking coloring, pasting, using scissors, practicing letters, etc. We have "kindergarten" workbooks from LakeShore Learning. My kids often "do homework" while I cook dinner. I think it helps them to work on their own, practice their fine motor skills and get better at "school" type work (beyond coloring!).

As for the potty training, part of that may be that he needs reminders on when to take breaks. A schedule may help with that since they do take breaks at school. Also, with summer coming up, you can work with him more since the clothing isn't so restrictive. I know our kindergarten teachers ask that kids are only sent in clothes they can get up/down themselves as they DO NOT DO BATHROOM HELP. So try to keep your son in elastic pants, simple t shirts (so the bulk won't get in the way), etc.

Finally, our school does have kindergarten prescreening. I've learned they do this to a) determine where every child is starting at with basic social, verbal, reading, writing and listening skills and b) to then place children in classes so that the "high" performers are intermixed with the "low" performers. (I'm sure they don't use those terms, but you get the idea. They don't want a teacher overwhelmed with too many kids that need a lot of extra help.)

I think you are absolutely right to get your child evaluated now. However I also think that kindergarten is an "age" based educational move for kids. I think you should send him. It's the teachers/school district's job to help you and your son determine if he has special needs and then help him along, both socially and academically with other kids.

You already know he's a smart kid. Sending him to school with get him the social help he needs.

I would definately wait on kindergarten and this is not about a lack of intelligence. He just sounds like he needs a little more time before he gets into something so structured. You say you don't have him in preschool, could you possibly get him into a preschool for this fall so he is beginning to get into the school structure to prepare him for kindergarten the following year? I know the preschool my son attends is a co-op preschool and he goes 3 days a week for 2 hours. I can't imagine putting him in half day or full day kindergarten(depending on your school district) cold turkey without some other experience in a school atmosphere. My son is also five, born in June of 2004 and is potty trained. We chose to keep him back a year, even though he could have gone to kindergarten, just to give him a little more time at home. I don't regret it one bit even though I worried that I was holding him back at the beginning. His confidence has grown and if he's ahead of his class, we can always move him up later in life if need be.
I wish I had an answer about the potty training issue. I know some are easier than others to potty train, but I also see that you have already gotten some good advice about his clothing and allergy testing.
I wish you the best of luck! :)

My step son had some potty issues going into kindergarten as well. My husband and I decided to send him anyway.

We talked to his teacher, principal, nurse and counselor at the beginning of the year and they were all on board. We decided to handle potty issues at school and home the same. If he didn't have any accidents he got a star for the day, after five stars he got a prize ( I made identical prize boxes for home and school). If he had an accident he simply had to take care of it himself. If he took too long cleaning and his class was heading to lunch, library, recess... someone else came in to wait for him. He did not like being left behind. At home we just carried on without him if he took too long (we would do whatever we were planning on before the accident, dinner, a movie, going in the back yard...) he didn't like being left out at home either.

I think school really helped motivate him to figure the potty thing out. He did not get made fun of by his friends and that was awesome, but he did miss out on things he liked. He even missed out on a field trip once.

I think school would be very positive and motivating for your son. Good luck!

My middle son is the same way. He is the laziest kid around. He is not interested in much except video games. He is very intelligent. He is now 15 years old but when he started out in kindergarten he was the same way. I am learning new things about my son every day and I still can not say I have that one right answer. I don't know if anyone does!! I would suggest looking a little further into his diet. My son showed some signs for ADHD when he was younger and the school counselor suggested a lot of whole grains, food unprocessed, and look at the dyes in a lot of things. There are tons of things on the internet about the proper diet. Hope things work out for you!! I always find that it is three steps forward and two steps back for me.

I was a K-1 teacher for 13 years and have seen many types of kindergarteners.

First many boys are not ready for the type kindergarten that is operating now. This has been studied and what they have found is that boys at five need to build blocks, structures, create things with their hands. They need to explore the world through science, geography, and movement. If they happen to learn words, letters, and numbers, because they good teacher is going to be putting these words on the board, even better.

Even thought his birthday is in (December which is mid year), from the behavior that you describe, I think that he should not be going to school next year unless there is a huge change in his behavior. You have described those behaviors exactly: sitting, listening to directions, desiring to learning school subjects, and completed potty training.

I see no reason you can't home school him at home for kindergarten. If the school letters reading, letters and math areas don't progress he can go into kindergarten in school.

Hi S.,

My two cents: I'd register him for kindergarten (you can withdraw later with no issues, right?) and then kick into high gear with some specialists. Your child's pediatrician should be referring him to a developmental pediatrician for evaluation regarding the lack of concentration, "circling" behavior, and other behavioral concerns that you shared. Additional time for your son to grow might not help the issues that you're currently facing with him. I would aim for early identification of any problems, and then intervention.

Kindergarten in Oregon (1/2 day in my district) only lasts 2.5 hours. This is the same amount of time you would get in a preschool program, except it is offered daily vs. 3 times per week. Your son might not even have the need to use the restroom at school with such a short day. If you need to, send him to school in a pull-up. Work closely with the teachers to help his progress in this area.

If finances are an issue with developmental specialists, etc. - the school system will test your son if they find deficiencies. At least you would find out what issues there are (if any) and then establish a path to move forward.

I guess I have a hard time advocating sitting on an issue and hoping it will get better with time. Young children have incredible plasticity in their brains, and I think that the earlier someone is able to work with your son, the better.

Best of luck to you!
M.

I would start him in pre-school. Sometimes the peer pressure will help with potty training and pre-schools are more equipped to deal with accidents. It will also help with his social/mental/academic readiness.
You doctor is right, every child has his/her own time and most student will potty train by age 6. If you do want to get an evaluation now, that is your good right, just find a pediatric urologist who will do one...
Good luck!

Who have you asked about an Autism Spectrum disorder? There are many different issues fit into this category. Not all forms of Autism have the tell-tale signs. My 6 year old was just diagnosed with an Autism Spectrum disorder, but does not have "Autism" in the sense that most people think of it. My son is ahead in language and math skills, doesn't rock or circle, and though he seems at times somewhat oblivious to some social issues (using silverware, proper toileting, chewing on everything, little eye contact etc), he plays great with his sister and at times other kids as well. He was almost 5 before he finally day potty-trained and even now he will not use the toilet at school (or any place other then home). He is not night trained yet. Most doctors will address day time potty-training issues as soon as kids reach school age, so I am surprized to see that your doctor is hesitating. It is normal to wait longer for night-training issues, but due to conflicts with school, they have to address day-time issues earlier. Talk to the school district they may have some resources of people you can talk to and see if it is worth having him evaluated. You can also wait until he is in school and the district will pay for the evaluations, but you risk him having an accident at school and getting labled with a poor reputation right off. Good luck!
I am a SAHM of 3 ages 1,4,and 6. I am slowly working on a teaching degree and have worked 5+ years in daycares and preschools.

I agree with the person who said to go ahead and register him now and decide later, you can always hold him back a year if you have to. I didn't read all the responses but I will say that I know you have talked to two Drs but maybe a third opinion would be a good idea. If the Drs are unwilling to help you at all then they really aren't great Drs in my opinion. My Dr, for instance, gave me 3 or 4 different ways to get my son off his binkie as well as to get him to poop on the tiolet and he said if they didn't work to come back and we could talk more about it. I think you may need a Dr a little more willing to work with you.

My son has had accidents in Kindergarten and it wasn't a big deal, they just sent him to the nurses office and then they called me, no biggie! Doesn't he want to go to Kindergarten? I would assume he'd be in a hurry to go since he has older siblings. Anyway, maybe letting him know that he can't do any big boy things (like going to school) until he has no accidents anymore. Otherwise find a reward sysytem that will work for him, something he really really loves and go from there. Rewards have worked fabulously on my son for all sorts of things.

Also, the school districts have people who can evaluate your child to see if he has any learning difficulties or is on the autism spectrum. Sometimes that is a very helpful way to go. You can ask the people in the school front office to steer you in the right direction with that.

Wish I could help more... good luck!

Call your school district. Most have services once a child reaches 3. Have him tested and it is free through the district. It may take awhile to get it scheduled.

Also, definitely register him for Kindergarten. If he starts school before testing has taken place, then the push for testing by his teacher will be that much stronger.

As for homeschooling, some kids don't do as well with a parent teaching them and need another person's influence. It does take a village to raise a child. If you do homeschool, make sure you have them in activities with peers. They need to be with peers to learn to work with others not related to them and to learn about differences within society. Other teachers or coaches help to reinforce some of the basic rules that a child needs in order to grow up a well adjusted adult that fits into basic societal norms (we all have rules to follow, as an adult we can get a ticket or worse. Best to learn some of the basics at a young age).

D.

my daughter is three and a half and still isnt potty trained at all...still in diapers. She just wont do it and I have tried everything. She starts pre k in the fall and I keep wondering how long this is going to continue. I have tried everything...all different types of training pants, regular underwear, dvds, books, potty doll, different potties, everything. I feel your pain! lol

I just can't believe the school system in your area can't do the testing you need. Our little grandson is 3 and is being evaluated by the school for disabilities. By age 7 it's too late for them to catch up. Call your school board offices and ask about getting him tested. Also, he needs to see a Urologist to test for UT issues, he may have some problem that is physical and might be able to be fixed.

I have not read the repsonses, but I was worried about my son not being potty trained also before kindergarten. As it turned out, it 'wasn't that big if a deal and he was basically ready by day 1. Here are my thoughts

1) they will not turn him away simply because he is not fully potty trained (as i thought they would because most preschools do...if your kid is old enough, they are not allowed to turn him away). They may require you to keep a full set of clothes in his backpack. I had to start doing that because my son had 2 or 3 accidents in the first month of Kindergarten this year. He has not had any since. I think that being around peers (especially if he has not been in preschool) will help him to want to remember the toilet. If it is a huge problem, let them know about it so they are prepared for it.

2)Just because kindergarten registration starts in March, does not mean that is when you have to do it. That is what I thought last May when registration started in our district. I was shocked to find out that often parents wait until one week before school starts to register their kids. My point being, if you feel more comfortable holdign off on registration, then do it. You will be able to register him in August if you change your mind, or probably any time before the end of this school year.

3)something that I did not know before the orientation, is that in our district (federal way), all the kindergarten classrooms have their own bathroom facilities, so the kids don't have to worry about running all the way down the hall to use it. Some of the kindergartens are sort of back to back and share a bathroom, but it's strictly a Kindergarten bathroom attached to the classrooms.

Something that may greatly help you is to get a CHILD FIND evaluation done. This is a free service that the district will provide. Check with the district website (I see you are seattle, but dont' know what district or I'd give you a link) and search for Child Find. They evaluate all kinds of stuff. Sometimes your child may be behind enough to qualify for some specific help before kindergarten starts. They will also tell you what specifically your child needs work on and give you ideas on games/activities to accomplish it. I was very glad to get it done for my son. I thought he was very behind and it turned out that he was not behind at all for his age.

I have to say he sounds like he is not ready for Kindergarten yet. I remember the naked stage with one of my sons but I believe he was around three. Have you tried going to a different Doctor? I hope you find the answers your looking for.

Hi there - I would say that you need to get a new doctor. If you are going to the doctor with a five year old and saying that he is NOT potty trained yet, runs in circles for an hour at a time, can't hold a pencil, isn't interested in normal child behavior (reading, shapes, and numbers) then I think something may be wrong with your doctor!
My good friend has a son that showed ALL those signs and he has Aspergurs (sp? a high functioning form of Autism).
I think it's ridiculous that a doctor would say they are not going to test or even consider that something else may be going on.
L.

Hi, I just wanted to say I have 2 little boys, one just turned 4 and the other is almost 3, and ever since they could walk their favorite thing to do is run in circles ... around the couch, around a toy, or around nothing. They especially love it when their dad and I run in circles with them, but we seem to get dizzy much quicker, lol. Their cousins (3 and 5) also love to do this, so I wouldn't worry about that.

My 4 year old has been potty trained during the day since about 3, but still wears a diaper at night and for naps at home. My almost 3 yr old is just starting to show a little interest in going potty and takes his pants all the way off and loves to be naked. I asked my pedi about night training and she said closer to 6 is very normal for boys.

Good luck!

I think its a bit early to say that you'll keep him out of Kindergarten next year. He has 5 months to improve. If it were me, I'd talk to the school, and if he goes to pre-school, them too, and make the decision in August.

As for taking everything off when on the potty, this is a very common thing. My son said is becuase its hard to hold the shirt up and go at the same time. We had to teach him to pull the top of his shirt over his head so that it wouldn't be a problem. As for the pants, well, until his feet can touch the floor while sitting, they are going to fall off. Its just being quick to put them back on..... Something that helped my 3y is a DVD called 'Potty Power'.

Have you contacted your school system? They should have a service available that could evaluate him, and help you understand from their criteria if they think he is ready. Have you considered sending him to a private Kindergarten? Some of the daycare centers here in VA offer private Kindergarten.

I don't know if you are a SAHM or not, but would maybe homeschooling him for Kindergarten work? Again, you'd have to talk to the school system.
Good luck
M.