Keep up the Facade or Don't Bother?

The bottom line is that the man you decide to marry will be the man you live with the day after the wedding and beyond. Men do not change because they "become* a husband and/or a father.

So.....no, I don't think you can be a good father by disrespecting the child's mother.

I think you're asking this question for a reason.

We give you permission to get out. You need to be happy. Your daughter needs a good environment to grow up in. What are you trying to preserve? Sounds like there's nothing left. Your daughter will figure out that mommy & daddy hate each other & will use you as an example of what a marriage should be.

I think it's b.s. to stay together for the kids. I think it's more damaging for kids to live in an aggressive, tense household than to split up & give your child 2 harmonious homes. I am a child of divorce, who heard her parents fight frequently. It was a burden I really didn't want to bear.

ETA - one more thing, this "facade" is probably more transparent than you think it is. I'll bet you're not fooling anyone. It's pretty easy to sense when a couple's having issues and when the happiness is not genuine.

So sorry to hear that you are living like this... it doesn't sound like any kind of life for you. Whether or not you feel like your husband is a good father, it's also important that your child sees what a healthy relationship looks like. It doesn't sound like she's getting that.

If your husband agrees that your relationship is problematic and will go to couples therapy that's where I would start. If he won't, I would go by myself. With a good therapist, you will find out a lot about why you married him in the first place (we often unconsciously repeat our childhood pattern) and you can get healthy to decided whether the relationship is worth it.

My parents split because my Dad was an alcoholic and the stress of his addiction was too much for my mother to handle. So she went back to school to provide a better life for all 6 of us. I have always had so much respect for the strength she has, and for the fact that she realized that she deserved a better life.

My husband's parent's were married for 30 some odd years until his dad died. They lived a miserable alcoholic, enabling, codependent life. I have no respect for my MIL staying married to an abusive man, who was both physically and mentally abusive to her and to the kids.

It's a hard choice, and only one that you can find the answer to. Good luck~

So why don't you find yourself a good husband let him be a good father from his own apartment? How often do I ask myself why do these women let this go on whether they have children or not? It is definitely difficult to leave bad situations and try to build a new life, but it can be done. I did it myself. You need to begin to value yourself enough to say 'I don't deserve this'...I wonder why so many women, beautiful, talented creative women believe they have no worth and stay with creatures like this. Oftentimes they like their homes, or their lifestyles or something, but you will find better homes, and you will soar in your own self worth. Oh please some of you out there doing the same thing, realize this other human may have donated something to help you have a baby, but don't let him rob you of yourself.

You only live once. You deserve better. So does your daughter.

I think kids learn what they are taught, just like you did. You learned it was okay to be a....well, a doormat, and you are teaching her to be the same thing.

I would want better for my kids. I have a friend who had been married since she was in college, has grandkids, has traveled the world and lived just about everywhere with a man who finds a new girlfriend at just about every base they lived on. She stayed for the kids and because she didn't really believe in divorce. She wanted her kids to understand commitment and that sometimes things didn't work out how we wanted but that she had taken a vow...

I believe that marriage is work, I'm not saying it isn't the hardest thing we do every day. It stinks on a daily basis. But when they treat you like you are the maid that spreads their legs and smiles when the hubby decides to notice them then it is time for some change. The hubby decided in Germany that he wanted to be with his current girlfriend more than the wife so he bought her and the kids tickets to the USA for Christmas and basically booted them out. Talk about shock. She had put up with all the affairs and knowing looks for over 25 years. He eventually married the girlfriend.

My friend went back to school, got her Masters and is working on becoming a Principal candidate. She has had a wonderful experience and is happier being fulfilled and proud of what she is teaching her kids. Her kids and their dad have not had too many difficulties, one son did some counseling but the rest of them said it was about time she grew some balls.

Only you can decide what is enough. It is enough when you are ready to stand and not be used anymore, it is enough when he starts treating you like the mother of his precious children and the wife he married years ago. It is enough when you say it is enough. Where he is treating you the right way or you are treating yourself the right way.

What if your daughter came to you with this question?

I think you already know what you want to do so do it. No, your girls shouldn't think that's acceptable behavior. You married someone just like your dad because that's what you grew up watching. Your kids will likely do the same. Set a good example and do what's right for you. You've already made the decision you just haven't said it out loud yet. It's ok, just do it. You'll be glad you did.
P.S. I,too, believe you can be a terrible spouse but a good parent BUT it's rare. Isn't part of being a good parent showing your kids a good example of being a spouse??

Imagine your daughter asking you this exact question in 20 years. What advice would you give HER? Take your own advice!

ETA: Great minds think alike, I should have read the other answeres first since Jen L already said the same thing!

Do you want your daughter to grow up and know you stayed in a relationship, stayed unhappy, filled with resentment...for her? You're staying in a situation you hate, and it's because of her? How awful to grow up with that responsibility.

I do NOT believe a terrible husband, is ever a good father. Period. A man who does not care about a child's mother, does not care enough about the child.

What do you think you deserve? A cheating, lying, disrespecting, immoral man? That's the kind of father she has. And she is your excuse for staying? Why is that her responsibility? How is that right and fair for her? It's not.

You have a few choices and only you know what is best for your situation:

A) Leave/Divorce
B) Stay the way it is (which it seems like you don't want and who can blame you)
C) Seek counseling for yourself and as a couple to try to work on the marriage

What you must realize is that YOU cannot change him. That is something that is beyond us all. A person has to want to change. If he agrees to counseling, it is a step in the right direction. If he does not, you have to make the decision on whether or not you want to stick around and wait for him to change, if he ever does.

Your current decision is whether or not you can live with what he has done and allow him the chance to right the wrongs. What I would not do is allow it to continue with no change because there is no reason for you or your daughter to have to live like that.

He may change and you may be able to go on with a genuinely happy marriage from here. What you CANNOT do is continue to live the way you are because it is obvious from your post that you are done doing that. My suggestion is if you want to try to make this work: give him the option to change and go from there.

I've often wondered why people seem to see it as black and white, leave or stay. There is a middle ground. You can put your foot down and tell him that he has X amount of time to start seeing a therapist and be 100% completely on the level with that therapist and start working on his problems, or else... There's also a temporary separation without filing for divorce. We could never afford the therapy. So we read self help books and saw pastors. We separated, talked, and would try again.

I'm on the fence about being a good father but a lousy husband. I believe that a mostly good person can be a mostly good father but if they are not loving the child's mother they are missing the biggest piece of the puzzle. Work for days or weeks on a puzzle and find out a piece is missing and your not a happy camper. A puzzle will never be complete without that missing piece.

If you have given it all second, third, and fourth looks and many chances and are thinking with a clear head, not a knee jerk reaction (sounds like you are), not only will having a father like this set a bad example for your kids on how to treat a spouse and how to be treated by a spouse, but your resentment (which is not your fault) will make it impossible to model a healthy, loving relationship for them, or to have a happy life yourself. I say get out if you can swing it.

This is a short life Willow, and you deserve to like it. And not just kinda like it, to actually be happy in all aspects. Someone here, told me yesterday, it will also hurt your daughter to know that you were miserable and just stayed for her.
If you and your husband could work through this and be happy, I would say without a doubt give it a try. Dont waste your life being miserable if hes not going to change.

question is - do you think you deserve better?

You deserve to be loved and respected. Your children deserve to see that their mother is loved and respected. Why do you feel you need to be the martyr in this situation? You set the tone in your home. Your children are young, but I promise they know what is going on..

My mother "finally" divorced my father after 12 years of marriage.. I was so happy. My sister was devastated.. She was very young and just wanted my parents to get along. I was old enough to know my parents no longer loved or respected each other and had not for many, many years.

My mother was a quiet woman, who smiled and agreed to whatever my father said or did, because it was just not worth the fight.. My father had affairs, he drank and we all behaved as though everything was perfect, but inside our home we were not happy.

Once my mother told my father to leave for good, our lives changed for the better.

Today my mother is my hero. She proved that she was a strong woman who could care for us without my father lording over her. She taught me that I deserve to be happy, successful and loved. My mother had a great career, she raised us to be strong, honest independent women.

Parents that think staying married for their children have no idea what stress it puts on their children. In a way it makes us part of their lies. We are having to live with the truth in our homes, but when out and around others, the stress of pretending we are the perfect happy family is horrible. I wanted to scream the truth, but knew that this was not an option, because my parents were also lying to everyone, even themselves..

Break this cycle. Your children deserve to be with a happy mom. They on their own will figure it all out and realize it was for the better to not have their parents just stay together for the kids.. That is too much responsibility to put on your children..

I am sending you clarity and strength.

I ask myself what will my kids life and my life look like if i divorce him.

To be honest the stories on here of non custodial parents taking off with the kids, or doing who knows what on the weekends they have the kids where i have no control at all scares the heck out of me.

This sounds weird but If you and your DD live your lives as you wish, almost with out him, I think DD will see that Dad is the one screwing up and missing out and that that is his issue. You mentioned the lying, I guess if you never trust what he says, for example i'll be home by 4 and take DD swimming. don't tell her that, have stuff ready but don't have her put her suit on until he shows up. Don't even tell her he said that, then if it happens great he's a good dad and if it doesn't she isn't hurt. You find a place were you stop being hurt by it and just know that HE is making those choices Not you. It's a little different than just keeping quiet about it and still seething inside, it's accepting the lying cheating b@#$#@$ for what he is.

Far Far easier to say than do and i am not in your situation, Does this make any sense at all?? Maybe i'm off base. My heart goes out to you and dd. I hope you can find someone that you can trust that knows what is going on and can be a support to you.

It's a sad truth that young women tend to marry what they know. Absent, abusive, or cheating father? Absent, abusive, or cheating husband. We become wired to expect that as "normal." And men who have those tendencies have the amazing ability to recognize and choose women who will tolerate their behaviors.

Give your daughter the chance not to marry a cheater. If your husband has proved over and over that he's not willing or able to grow up, it is probably better to leave him while your child is still young. I stayed with an emotionally abusive first husband until my daughter was eight. What finally woke me up was that she was becoming afraid to be left alone with her father. I wish I had left him much earlier.

I married a really great guy a few years later (heading into our 30th year together!). She had two different models of marriage to use as patterns for her future life. She dated some really terrible guys, and I was worried for her. But then she found and married an honest, dedicated, loyal man to father her child. I couldn't be happier, of course, and I don't want to take credit for it, but I don't think that would have ever happened if I had stuck it out with her father.

No backlash here. Only support. Do what you need to to for yourself and your daughter. You won't regret it.

Hi Willow:
Why did you marry your husband?

If you know he is a liar/cheater, does he have other qualities that you appreciate?

If your father was the same way as your husband, did you love your father in spite of his human characteristics?

Have you heard about unconditional love?

What are you expecting from your husband that you are not getting? (Specifically, one thing)

This habit of your husband is an addiction. Look on Dr. Phil's website and look up symptoms and behaviors of an addicted person. Find a support group to learn how to focus on yourself to get your own needs met.
All the Best.
D.

I would definitly get out... I know its easier sad than done but I think your putting up with this because your mom did and then your did will be cause you did and so on and so on.... Be the one to break the cycle...U and your daughter deserve it : )

"Do I want my daughter to grow up thinking that it is okay to be lied to by her spouse? Is it okay for her to put up with someone making her feel/look stupid all the time?"
No, you don't. Trust me on this one. This is a good question to ask yourself when you are undecided on how to proceed on something, by putting it in the context of "Would I want my children in this situation themselves? What would I say to them if they were?"

"I think you can be a terrible husband and still be a good father."
I completely agree with you, and I know lots of them. I also know lots of now-divorced people that only brought out the worst in their spouses, in spite of being decent people in general.

And you are not airing your troubles in public, you are reaching out for support. And you are going to need a lot of it if you plan to leave this man. Before you do anything, talk to a lawyer.

I don't know what to tell you. But, I will say that you are an example of the concept that women often choose men to marry who are like their father. It was the example you lived with growing up, and you are now married to. Your husband needs help. Would you father be willing to talk to him about it? Do you have any other support system? Are you in a church who could offer counseling for you? I don't think you should necessarily give up, but he does need to change. You are putting your own health at risk with his risky behavior.

I can understand you... I married my ex husband and I think I thought that being married would change him. Of course the promise is only as good as those who make it and without a true promise it's a piece of paper. I like what some other mommies said about you deserving better. It took me a long time to realize I deserved better and that my son is better off with us being apart. I am a better mommy and person without him around to make me feel bad and devalued. I respect that you are thinking of your daughter and what kind of married love you want to model for her. You are right, kids aren't stupid and they pick up on more than we think. Remember to live for you too and like another poster said, Life is short, so make the most of it!!!

I don't know if you are a reader, but I read the book, "Cutting Loose: Why Women Who End Their Marriages Do So Well" by Ashton Applewhite. I HIGHLY suggest this book and I only wish I'd read it sooner.

I've been divorced for 5 years from my cheater/liar and while there are still hard times I can say I'm SO much happier than I ever would have been with him and I am getting to live my life to the fullest for myself and my son. GOOD LUCK!!!

why do woman come to this realization after they have kids?

sounds like this is a generational thing for woman in your family, so more than likely your daughter will marry a man that resembles her daddy & grandpa, that's your daughters role models.

One of my best friends was married to someone who cheated constantly - for their daughter, they agreed to divorce but live as roommates. Its worked fantastically for 13yrs. They also went to counseling to learn how to live as supportive parents without hurting each other, and to live without expectations from the other parent without hurting each other. This may not be an option for you, but I thought it was worth mentioning since its been a success for someone else. Good luck!