Hubby and I Have Different Opinions--what's Your Thought?

I think that if you are comfortable with it, ask them for an honest answer. I think that would clear the air for both couples and they might be so happy to be able to express their emotions about their son.

Talk to them. Tell them that while you love visiting them, you are concerned how they feel about being around Jack given the circumstances.

They may feel like he's a link to their son.

If it was too hard for them they would have already taken steps to avoid you. You are both blessed in this friendship.

Sounds like your husband has a case of "survivor's guilt" and that's a difficult thing. I'm with the others on this, let your friends decide. Only they know how it makes them feel to see your little boy thriving-they may feel joy at seeing someone so full of life or it may make them feel a bit sad realizing what they are missing-but only they can make that call. It sounds like they are truly happy for you and if they don't feel up to the party then they can always say no. It's more hurtful if you don't give them the choice.

I agree with you. If they had difficulty being around you, hubby and Jack, this friendship would have withered long ago.
Your son's "life" is in no way intertwined with their son's "death".
It was the boys that brought you all together in the beginning, but they sound very accepting and inclusive.

My SIL lost her son to a heart defect at 4 yrs old. She misses him, but she doesn't hold it against others that their children survived. We talk about her son and remember him and anytime we see a free balloon we say hi. On some level, the hurt never stops, but you can go on.

I think you're right. They have other children. They had a major loss, but I think that if they couldn't stand to see Jack, they wouldn't invite him/you. If it would make your DH feel better, he can talk to them. Say that he's been thinking about their son and doesn't want to make them feel uncomfortable bringing Jack around. I think that in 3 years if it bothered them, they would have backed off the friendship. I suspect that it may be more about your *husband* feeling awkward then the other couple.

I am on your side on this.

It is hard to say because I do not know the people you are talking about. But as a parent, I honestly believe that they will always be reminded of their loss whether your son is in the picture or not and they may want to move on but doubt that they ever want to forget.

They would have cut ties a long time ago if they're uncomfortable with the situation.

I think that they think about their son all the time. Every minute is a reminder of the child they lost, so there is nothing that you can do that would change that.

If you have been friends with them for three years and surely shared some terrible experiences, can you share these concerns with them? I would maybe call and say that you really want to invite them to the party, but you always wonder if it would be too painful and you want to be aware of their feelings. I would give them the space to either attend or decline. My guess is that they would welcome the open dialogue and would honestly tell you how they feel. If it's okay with your husband, share how he feels - let your friends give your husband the "okay" to bring your son around.

I think that they are lucky to have found friends like you.

I'm sure if it was painful to be around Jack they would have pulled out, and they may eventually as their mourning process dissipates. I think you are right, let them call the shots. People are in our lives for reasons and seasons. You don't have to force yourself on them or feel obligated to invite them to "family" bday parties. Sending them a bouquet on their sons bday might be a nice thing to do and put a smile on their face while you continue to nurture your friendship with them.

Thank God your son is doing well!
My son passed away at 17 days old. Two of my cousins had babies at the same time I did. I have never been anything but happy for them that they have healthy children (sons). It would have been too much to bear if one of them lost their child too. No parent should have to live through the death of a child.
I would call and tell them you are having a party for your son and would love them to come but you totally understand if it would be too difficult for them. Just letting them know you are thinking of them and remember their son probably means the world to them. They probably feel a special connection to you and especially your son.
Of all the things that anybody ever said or did for me re: the death of my son it was a girlfriend who called me on the day her baby turned 17 days old and acknowledged my loss. It made me cry but I just knew she "got it"
Call your friends and talk to them. Let them tell you how they feel. Although it would probably be difficult to attend your sons party they may really want to. Does that make sense?

They obviously love you guys and want to keep in touch, if they invite you to their kid's birthdays then invite them to yours. Do not worry about how they are going to feel, let them handle that. Its been 3 years, they've obviously found a way to move on from this horrible tragedy. Be their friends and let them share in the joy of your son.

This is a very tough position to be in, but I genuinely think that they enjoy seeing your son and while it may be difficult to watch him grow b/c it is a reminder of the things their son "would have done", it is also a reminder of how precious and fragile life can be.

My son and my nephew are a few months apart and we spend a lot of time together. My nephew passed away very unexpectedly a few days after his second birthday and we were really anxious about celebrating my son's birthday for the same reason. Honestly, my SIL loves spending time with him and makes a point of picking out "the best present" for him on all occassions b/c it reminds her that children are beautiful and that they are completely unaware of tragedy. My little guy runs up and hugs them b/c he loves them, not because his heart breaks when he sees them.

Take him and have a good time. If they invite you to be part of their lives, then it would be rude not to include them. If they don't feel comfortable celebrating your son's birthday, they won't come.

There will always be a little twinge of pain, the first time they may just hold him and cry a little, or maybe even just watch him play and not want to hug him, but let them grieve their way. They will want to see him. They loved your son too. They bonded with him they way you bonded with theirs. They were happy that your son lived just as you were sad to hear that their son took a turn for the worse.
I had my third daughter in July 1995, then in Oct 1995 my sis in law had a little boy, when he was 3 days old there was a show on 20/20 about SIDS. I called my sis in law to tell her to watch it. She asked if I was worried about it, I said no, because my Katie was strong and moved her head when she slept. Exactly 1 week later it was my Katie that died of SIDS, during the morning, on her side. My nephew was 10 days old Katie was 2 months and 19 days. Every time I saw my nephew after that he was a reminder. But he was also a baby to hold, to feel that little head against my neck, one that I had a connection to, who was connected to Katie. Other babies in the store, those hurt. I didnt want to see them. Because they were not connected to Katie. Because I couldnt hold them, Because they had their eyes closed and I couldnt wake them up.

Let them see your son, he may be what they need. He may make them cry, but he may help them heal.
L.
mom of Katie

If they didn't want to know they wouldn't ask questions. Here is another thought. Perhapes they enjoy hearing about your son because they see their son in yours. Maybe it brings them joy to know that at least one child survived their heart probelm. You might talk to the wife about it. She might be forthcoming.

I agree with you. It's definitely not the same thing at all - I can't imagine what they are going through - but my best friend died in a car accident when she was 21. I have remained close to her mom and her brother since then and have included them in all of my milestones (marriage, children etc.). I know that these are bittersweet times for them, because they are reminders of things that their daughter/sister never got to do, but they have always seemed happy to be included and remembered. I agree with you that if this were a hardship for them, they would indicate that by their behavior and everything that they do points to their being OK with being a part of your son's life even though it's a reminder of their missing angel. I would invite them and then let them decide whether or not to go. And chances are, someone on FB would post something party related so there is a chance that they would find out and be hurt that they weren't invited. Just send the invite, and it's up to them whether or not to accept or decline.

Gosh how horrible! So sorry to hear all of this. I wouldnt exclude them, if they feel like they cannot handle it, they wont come. Lots of prayers for you all!

They are living vicariously through you. Offer the invitations-and let them decline if they are emotionally not up to it. God bless all of you.

You need to keep them included. They will filter the activities they want to participate in. I had a best friend as a child that died as a young adult. Though my parents and her parents were not close friends, they did camp and see each other because of our friendship. Fast forward twenty years, and as important events happen in my children's lives, I do include her parents. It does make me feel sad when I think their own daughter should be where I am now and they will never experience grandchildren and all that entails. But to not include them seems harsher. It giving them an untouchable status that they should not have.

Good luck.

I don't think its up for husband to decide on how they feel. I am in agreement with you. If they felt bad, you would definitely notice them backing away. Some people choose to live in the past while others choose to move forward. Who knows, seeing your son, may help them keep their memory of their son alive.

At any rate, even if they don't have mutual friends, they will most likely see pictures from the party. I would just invite them if that is what your asking and if that is what seems to be the norm.

ooohhhh wow!!

My heart goes out to the other family. Congratulations on your son....

I see both sides. I lost 3 babies - but all gestational - never live births.

If you are talking with the other family - pick up the phone and talk with the other mother - let her know that you love having them in your life - but don't want to be insensitive to their loss either. Find out how they want you to handle it. It's been 3 years and they have other children....let them decide on how they want to be informed.

Best!!

Cheryl

I so love how your difference of opinion is about how to best express the sensitivity and caring you both feel for those dear parents who endured such a terrible loss. It is usually helpful to first recognize and honor that you both are unified in your caring and sensitivity. This is the best place to be when there are different ideas on the table to be considered. Your principles and ultimate goal are selfless and in harmony. All you really have to do is sort out the details. Kudos to you both!

One thing that often helps in these situations is to stop seeing the two options being considered as your opinion and his opinion. Just see them as two possibilities. Once you have established this frame of mind, you will likely be better able to see that you can blend parts of both ideas and create a better idea than either of you had alone. You may also be able to see that, perhaps, there are more than two possible choices. This consultative approach to decision making is one that everyone will benefit from learning. It is a loving, respectful and highly effective method that I learned through my religious affiliation. First, agree on and define the issue being discussed. Then, identify the dynamic principles involved. These are usually social/spiritual principles. In this case, the issue that is under consideration is how to best exercise principles of kindness, courtesy, and caring. Finally, as you entertain various ideas, you must avoid the temptation to attach the idea to the person who offered it. Once it is on the table, it belongs to all who are participating. It is important to listen carefully and respectfully so that you understand the ideas being expressed, but all ideas on the table can now be used to help develop some combination of ideas that shine light upon each other, temper each other, blend and/or prove each other. Each of the ideas are to be considered with objectivity and respect on their own merit as well as in combination with the other ideas. And, it is important to be willing to search for other ideas, as you are doing here, when you seem to come to an impasse. In school, we are often taught to debate rather than to consult. This is such an important technique for couples and families to learn.

All that said, I will tell you that I lost 3 of my 4 pregnancies. Only one of them was a girl. I happened to become pregnant the same month as two friends that also had girls who were always strong and healthy and are talented young women today. We did not live close enough to attend things like birthday parties, but I can tell you that I would have loved to have had the chance to be closer to those two girls.

Yes, especially the first several years, it would pique the grief I felt whenever I would see either of those girls. To this day, I feel a desire to hold my little girl in my arms. But, it was also somehow helpful to see life moving on and growing. It would remind me that my daughter was evolving and developing in a different realm. It would remind me that she would never have to experience the scraped knees, the middle school embarrassments, the disloyalties and abandonments this life has to offer. It would remind me that I would never have to worry about her safety or worry that I was not a good enough mother for her because she was in the most perfect Hands of God. But that was me. Not everyone has this perspective. Your husband may have a point worth considering. However, neither of you are in the position to know this without asking the other couple.

In the process of consultation, one of the most important things to ask is, "Do we have enough information upon which we can base a sound decision?" I like the idea someone else expressed about writing a kind letter letting them know that you wish to be sensitive to their feelings and assuring them that you will completely understand and support their decision without being offended. They may thank you for asking and opt to be left out of your son's celebrations. They may tell you that being with your son helps them feel closer to the son they lost and they very much appreciate your invitations. You simply are in no position to assume.

Another consideration is to ask if there are other considerations. For example, you may want to also be sensitive to yourselves. Perhaps it is difficult for your husband to be reminded of all the stresses you endured and how close you came to losing your son while celebrating his birthday. There may be aspects of that experience that have not completely healed for one or both of you. You may want to be honest with each other about any feelings you could be harboring. Perhaps it will allow you to reframe the relationship you have with this precious friendship you developed under painful circumstances. We often carry guilt for thoughts and feelings that are only natural. In circumstances like these, it is common to be torn between compassion for the couple that lost a child and gratitude that you did not lose yours. Some people carry a lot of guilt about such feelings. It is important to come to the awareness that you certainly feel grateful that you son survived, but that you would also have been all the more grateful if both children had survived. So, it might be helpful to sit down together and create a safe atmosphere for you to share your deepest thoughts and feelings about your own thoughts and feelings before extending that sensitivity to the other couple. Once any possible underlying motives are cleared, it will be much easier to know you are on the same page about how to best support the other couple.

We have made many friends over the years. The friends we made working together or struggling through a difficulty together are often the most reliable.

I applaud you for writing and asking for input on the subject, but none of us can provide the information you will still need to gather in order to make this decision confidently. You are both to be commended.

I see both sides, but I agree with you. They have proven time and again that they value you as friends... they may look at you as a blessing that came out of the sad situation of their son's death. If they don't want to come to the party, it would be very easy for them to bow out. Continue with what you're doing and don't worry.

I would do exactly what Lynn M. said. Tell them how much their friendship means to you, but let them know you'd understand that your son might bring back sad memories. They do seem to be very enthusiastic and willing participants in your friendship, so perhaps being around your son brings back GOOD memories of the days they got to spend with their son. Invite them to the party and let THEM decide to come or not. But certainly give them the choice.

I think you are both right... but if the parents didn't want to keep in contact with your family - they would have made it known. They may feel pain and remembrance of their son when they look at yours, but I'm sure it's a bittersweet complicated thing.

Always give them the option to go or refuse.

Well I have not lost a child in that way, so I can not say exactly how they feel. i can say though that we tried to conceive for 11 years and I did miscarry and I had many people who felt that way about inviting me to their baby showers etc... that made me feel so much worse cause nobody likes to feel pitied. You can't really support someone if you feel sorry for them. So I say acknowledge their loss and be respectful, but I can almost guarantee that they do not see it as you guys rubbing it in their faces. Trust that they are capable of just being genuinely happy for you guys and that while are grieveing for their own loss, do not in any way wish you to have the same. If it is too hard for them to attend, they can make that decision and just send a gift etc...or call and explain that the yearly reminder is too hard, but trust me, they remember regardless of your invite and yes if they attend, they may go down the road of what if he hadn't of died while watching Jack, but it is theirs to deal with and if they can not cope, then they will not put themselves in that position every year. I say invite them to participate in your joy as they already have enough grief! So I have to side with you. While I was going through all that myself, my sister in law got pregnant and had a baby and I participated and i did not wish her any ill will. I genuinely was happy for her and our family. Hope this helps....

I agree with the others - let them decide if they want to come. They've made great efforts remaining friends with you and I am sure they enjoy your company. Send the invite!

I didn't read all the replies but I am wondering why you can't send the invite and just be open about it and say you'd love to have them come but if it's too hard for them you'll understand. Our daughter had twins about 2 weeks before my niece gave birth to one twin and delivered another still born. They still are trying to work it out as the niece had a very hard time seeing the twins. I think it depends on the other family and how they feel. I've heard often that after a miscarriage when people try to not talk about it and sometimes it's more painful to pretend it didn't happen. From the way you describe this family they seem to have been able to accept the death and the fact that you have a child and I would think they would enjoy coming. Ask them in a sensitive way.

Seems like you still have a friendship and I think you should invite them.As you said they invite you.If they felt as if you were rubbing it in their face they wouldn't want a relationship.And as long as you don't purposely "rub it in their face," which I am sure you wouldn't then I see nothing but a healthy relationship between your families.In fact since they lost their boy it might be enjoyable and healing for them to be around yours and be a part of his life.

Updated

Seems like you still have a friendship and I think you should invite them.As you said they invite you.If they felt as if you were rubbing it in their face they wouldn't want a relationship.And as long as you don't purposely "rub it in their face," which I am sure you wouldn't then I see nothing but a healthy relationship between your families.In fact since they lost their boy it might be enjoyable and healing for them to be around yours and be a part of his life.

What Lynn says. That's the perfect answer. Better to have a tiny bit of discomfort asking them what they want/need from your relationship than having one of you be uncomfortable about it all the time. You're very lovely to care :)

Write your different opinions based on love and support for them and ask what they prefer. They will totally understand your confusion, and will appreciate you both care so much. I would not know either. I would tend to feel like your husband does, and I honestly don't know if it's the right thing, since leaving them out may hurt their feelings.

I think as it may be a reminder of their son, it sounds like it is positive. What a difficult thing to go through, I couldn't even imagine. God bless them. How nice it is to form relationships with someone through difficult times.

In a way I can see your husband's point - and I think he IS trying to be sensitive to the other couple's feelings as well as be a good friend. Sometimes when we emerge from a situation like this and the outcome is in our favor, we can almost feel "guilty" about our good fortune. Perhaps being with these other people is an ongoing reminder for your husband of what YOU could have lost. I'm just trying to see it from his point of view. I'm wondering if your friends are the type of people who you would be friends with if fate hadn't brought you together? Is it easy and comfortable for you to be with them, or is it becoming strained or awkward in any way? Do YOU want to remain friends with them? Sometimes people come in to our lives at a particular moment of crisis, but ultimately the friendship might fizzle out if there is no longer a need for it on both sides or if you have nothing else in common, and that's ok too. I think you just need to figure out if there's more to the friendship than just the original connection. You all have been there for each other during one of the toughest times of your lives, and that is clearly a blessing. You will ALWAYS have a very special connection to them. I'm sure they wouldn't want you to have any feelings of unease regarding the friendship - they sound like very generous people who are genuinely happy for you. Just the kind of people you'd want to keep as friends :)

that is tough but I think this family wants to continue being friends and being a part of your life. If it was too hard--they would have already found a way to distance themselves from you but since they continue to invite you to their other kids parties then they are still reaching out and want to continue your friendship.
It may be helping them in their grief process to actually watch your son growing up.. because that helps them think about what their son would be doing through the stages of life that they are watching your son at.

It sounds like you have an awesome relationship with them that you would still have contact.

You went through a lot together and may hurt them worse not to have contact with them anymore. It sounds like they are fine with it.

I had a nephew that was born with a bad heart. He survived many years and went through many surgeries and even had a transplant at age 12 and lived until he was 19. We thank God for the time he was here with us and happy for those memories but we also remember those hard times at the hospital when we weren't sure he would make it. There were families that helped comfort us along the journey and other families that we helped along theirs. We don't have contact information for any of the families we met along the way but don't think we would have a problem seeing them again even though our nephew has passed on and their child may still be living. There would still be memories to talk about and things in our current life to share and catch up on.

My older son's friend died of a brain tumor in first grade. It was a long illness before he found peace. My son was his only friend not afraid to visit him since he couldn't go to school. My son was also his only friend to attend his funeral.

Fast forward to all milestones, my son is now 23, his friend's mom came to every milestone. At eighth grade graduation I asked her how she does it. Doesn't it hurt to see them grow up? Yeah I ask questions I really should not. She told me seeing them grow up makes her feel like he is still with her. She gets to see, in all his peers, what could have been. She feels better knowing what they are doing.

Not saying that she represents all parents that have lost a child so young but she does represent one.

Well I just read your post to my DH to get another man's perspective. He totally agrees that it "could" be hurtful to the other family... and they might be obligated. He said that it obviously sounds like you have a VERY close relationship with these parents. Why not just ask the wife? It will show her that you are sensitive to their feelings and that you care enough to make sure it does not hurt them. Additionally, it will help you not worry about the choice you make either way!!! I would write them a letter or ask them/or just the wife in person. Hope this helps!

I think you both sound like very caring people. = )

Are you asking if they should be invited to Jack's birthday party or if in general, you should avoid mentioning Jack on FB or email, etc?

I would be tempted to say no to the birthday party (but mostly because they wouldn't know anyone else there) BUT...! You said they've invited you to their other kids' parties? In that case, I think NOT inviting them to Jack's feels wrong...Like you are making decisions about how they should handle their grief instead of leaving it to them.

I would say yes to keeping all your stories about Jack open to them and continue to get together as families.

If they invite you to their other children's parties then I feel they should be invited. I think it would hurt them more to be left out.

I think that you are right. It isn't like they aren't reminded about their son on a daily basis anyway. I think that they would be hurt if you didn't invite them. You could put in the invite that if they aren't able to make it you understand and that you hope they are able to come. They KNOW it is his birthday. Would it be different if they were family? If you have a relative who had a son that died, would you exclude them? If they think it would be uncomfortable, then they won't come or they will leave early, but don't NOT invite them because you THINK that they will be comfortable. That is a decision that they have to make on their own. It will be bittersweet for them, but let THEM make that choice.