How Would You Handle This? - Westchester,IL

Does he do this every time he gets TO'd? Was he hungry or overwhelmed or tired? wet diaper making him cranky? these are the things i usually consider when my kids are acting like howler monkeys... :) If it continues, maybe think of a diff time-out method, like instead of sitting, you can take a walk or try painting or coloring, and talk to him calmly about what not to do... everyone's different, all kids are different and handle things according to their own personality :) xoxo Hope this helps a little bit :)

I don't recall trying timeouts more than once or twice for my now-grown daughter. I used lots of coaching, modeling of desired behaviors, reasoning, empathy, and natural consequences. Pretty work-intensive at times, but it yielded good results for me as a parent, and a happy, low-stress childhood for my daughter. For my grandson, now 4, our whole family uses similar processes. My daughter occasionally employs a brief timeout, but we've wondered how effective they actually are. So I'm personally a bit skeptical about the value of the timeout, though it's probably better than many other options.

The ideal timeout is to provide a safe and calm environment in which a child learns to control himself, not to be controlled by outside forces (even if the force is a well-intentioned parent). The parent may sit nearby companionably, perhaps sorting laundry, shelling peas, or reading a book.

Walking out of the room, closing a door, isolating a child can be utterly terrifying or devastating to some kids, and total trust in the parent may begin to crack. Or, the child may be infuriated, which does not further the goal of the timeout. Or the child may forget why he's been isolated, and start playing, which will only ramp up the parent's perceived need to make the child hurt in some significant way.

Ideally, a time-out is NOT PUNISHMENT, and therefore, it's not important that the child sit quietly for the full minute-per-year. It is only important that he have a supportive and safe reset period in which he can gain control of his emotions/behavior to continue his play. (Of course, this will take practice, for both parent and child. None of us change instantly.)

Once a power struggle ensues – in which a parent repeatedly drags a child back to the time-out spot to start the clock again, the exercise becomes punitive (to both parties). The original point of the time-out has been completely lost, and the child experiences the whole situation as unfair. So a spirited kid ramps up his emotions and resistance. A more compliant child may just give up in confusion, shame, and hopelessness.

Either way, this is an entirely different dynamic than "Let's give you some time to be in control of yourself." Instead, it has become, "I need to conquer you." This is really unfair, because the child had no possibility of avoiding consequences for his quite understandable struggle against imposed rules he doesn't yet comprehend.

So, the ideal time-out gives the child a minute or so to calm down so that he can re-set himself and resume his play. At some point, he will gradually realize how and why his behavior was undesirable. And with the ideal time-out, the child is more likely feel protected and assisted in his growing up, not embroiled in a continuing power struggle that leaves additional layers of bad feelings for him to deal with.

When a child is in the midst of a tantrum or crying... it is not the time to expect them to talk rationally. A child is not rational at this time and it will only get them more irked. So you need to wait for them to "deflate" first. Which a child will do if given a chance.

Wait until he is calm first... then talk about it. Also, a 2.5 year old is not yet fully articulate about their emotions, & their emotions are not even fully developed yet at this age nor their complete understanding of it or their ability to cope with it.
But sure, they can get what cause & effect is, hence, "consequences."
BUT a 2.5 year old is not going to have a "conversation" at an adult level nor be able to talk about it.

If he is still crying, he won't be able to talk about it or have a conversation... and him not wanting to talk to you means he is a bit miffed and not happy about it. Or... MAYBE he has his own reason about what happened. But their "impulse control" ability at this age, is not even fully developed yet either... so they can't "perfectly" do things at-will 100% of the time. Especially at this age.

For me, what I do is instead of expecting my kids to respond perfectly about something... I tell them to just "try your best." That way, they are able to attain it, because no child can be perfect. And for some kids, just knowing that they are expected to act "perfect" can really set them off... because it will never be perfect enough. It is UNattainable.

So make things, your "expectations" approachable and attainable... and in line with his age and maturity. Otherwise, you and he will get frustrated. If he knows that "trying your best" is good and positive... then a child will more than likely try.... and when they do (even if it is NOT perfect) praise them, for trying. The end result does not have to be "perfect" but that they are able to "try their best" and thereby showing that they ARE doing it... and that that is good. And makes Mommy happy.

Kids... by nature, do not listen all the time. Especially if they are young. So, do we punish for each single time they don't listen... or do we help them learn how to cope with "mistakes" and then teach them alternatives? Or is it because they are on purpose being "bad?" So you have to ascertain that. And maybe he has a reason?

Its good you try to talk to him about "why" he is in time-out... but also, practice with him about expressing HIMself too... and explaining "why" he did a certain thing or not. Then, as a TEAM... work through it... and offer him alternatives. Help him to communicate his ideas too. Sometimes, I have timed-out my kids... only to realize that they were not actually at "fault" and when I gave my daughter a "chance" to explain her actions... I realized, I was wrong. She was not going anything "naughty"... but she merely was trying to finish something first, BEFORE she did what I had requested. She didn't do it "fast enough" for me according to my expectations... and in a rush to have her do it... I made her go to her room. It was my fault. She was not willfully doing anything "bad" or not listening to me... (she was listening to me), but I erred and mistakenly assumed she was not listening.... because she didn't do it right that second.

So, yes, a child needs to listen, they need to do what we say... but it won't happen exactly all the time. So, in light of that and their own ability... and the situation... teach him how to express himself too... and how to "try his best..." too. Because, all throughout childhood... a child/kid will not always listen so accurately or promptly. But for me at least... I just teach my kids to TRY their best... or how to "help Mommy".....

I actually don't like time-outs & it doesn't teach them anything except retribution or punitive-ness... and I don't think it works across the board. But sometimes, I just have my kids go to another room.. and I tell them Mommy has to deflate. Or I go to another room myself.

*Adding this: Just last week, my daughter (who is 7), had a class field trip. One of her classmates was going to go. But then her Mom, who was standing there with her daughter, this girl... MADE her stand there by the bus and the group of kids while they were getting to leave for the field trip. The girl was crying uncontrollably and being scolded by her Mom out loud in front of ALL the kids and Teachers. The Mom then told her loudly "See... you can't go on the field trip!... TELL the kids WHY you can't go..." And the girl while crying said "BECAUSE I didn't listen last night..." then the Mom said "Say it louder..." So her girl repeated that. While crying. The Mom, denied her daughter the field trip (a kind of time-out), for not listening to her the previous night. And in front of everyone, she made her daughter WATCH the other kids get ready and get in the bus for the field trip, without her. Everyone was aghast. It as an extreme "lesson" the Mom was doing upon her girl for "not listening" to her the night before. This girl is 7 years old. And I guarantee you, this will NOT be the last time she does not listen, perfectly, to her Mom. This "punishment" the Mom did to her... will not "solve" it. Because... kids do not listen all the time. By nature. Even adults don't listen all the time, nor Spouses. This is just an extreme example of "time-out" for a child. Being denied and being banished elsewhere. And even if this girl is older, 7 years old, you see that not even at this age, do kids always "listen." So what then? The main thing is to teach a RECIPROCAL behavior where the child knows what "team-work" is and "helping" and how they will make "mistakes" but that they can have a chance to work through it and express themselves and understand that. No child will listen perfectly. So you need to teach the child other ways of "transitioning" to your cues or by what they need to do. Giving them incentive. Not fear only, of punishments. Then they will learn respect etc. all that good stuff we want them to learn for behavior.

just some ideas, sorry for rambling and being long-winded,
All the best,
Susan

Hey there - it's pretty tough reasoning with a 2 yr old much less an upset one. I always tried to keep the learning moments to times when they are calm and I had their attention. When they were really upset after a timeout, I would often cuddle with them on the couch, speak softly and comfort them and then just tell them how I felt. "I was scared because you were doing something dangerous and you wouldnt listen" or "mommy needs you to listen when I ask you to do something, okay?" Perhaps you could pick up a book or two on obedience or being a good listener/helper that you can read to him outside of the moment. It will help give your son some conceptual foundation for when you are requiring something of him that he may not fully understand.

I might get in trouble for saying this, but the first timeout was probably warranted - the 2nd sounds like you were frustrated with him and a little angry and it was more punitive than about giving him a chance to think and redirect. If he was that upset, then there is simply no reasoning with him in that state of mind. If he's mad at you and wants Daddy - that's really okay. Let him go to Daddy and have daddy talk to him and reinforce your discipline, telling your child that he needs to listen to mommy and do what she says.

One thing I realized about myself and it changed my kid's reaction to discipline for the better was that I started looking at myself to see if I might be part of the problem. Just as an example - my kids dont listen well when they are 20 feet away, across the street or engrossed in something really interesting or fun. Especially with my youngest, when he was 2 and 3 and not paying attention, I had to either go to him and get down on his level and make eye contact. Sometimes I would speak softly in his ear asking him what I need him to do. My point is that we're adults and they're toddlers. If we get a bad reaction to discipline, it's up to us to know why they are acting that way and to evaluate if we contributed to their frustration.

It was frustrating at first, but I learned something about my son when he was that age. Sometimes he was just SO focused on what ever he was doing or watching that he just didn't hear me. (I was secretly thrilled he could be so focused - definitely no attention problems when something really interested him.) I had to call his name, then ask if he was listening to me, then ask him to look at me (in the eyes). (Now I had his undivided attention.) Then I told him what I wanted him to do (short easy tasks - no more than one or two at a time - 'put away your toys' is too vague - 'put the blocks in their box' is more like it), and followed it up with 'Do you have any questions?' or 'Do you understand?'. It cleared up communication immensely and made us both happier people.

When my kids are in timeout, they know that the time does not start until they are quiet. They can sit there for 20 minutes, but if they're screaming through the whole thing, the timer hasn't started yet.

If you don't use a timer, start that. If you can get one that they can see, even better. Once he figures out that he isn't going to be allowed out of timeout until he calms down (in my opinion, that is the purpose of the timeout, for the child to settle themselves and think about why they are there), he will stop the screaming. Just be sure to explain it to him beforehand, maybe sometime when he isn't upset. Just tell him that when he has to go to timeout, he will have to be quiet before you start the timer. My daughter would start crying AFTER I started the timer, so I even had to institute the rule that the timer would be started over if she started screaming after it was started.

Good luck! This is such a fun age, but so trying at the same time!

I might not have the most popular response, but I'll answer from my point of view regardless.

Personally, I don't believe that time-outs are always the best solution with an irrational 2 year-old. Our daughter just turned 2, our son is 3.5, and sometimes they're completely unreasonable.

We've found that taking something important away has been most effective to this point. We tried to ask our 3.5 year-old the other night what kind of punishment he likes best and least from the 3 we use most often. We received 3 different answers.

When they're crazy like that, I don't believe it's possible to rationalize with them. So, we tend to take away whatever it was they were doing, wanting to do, etc. Our son will shape-up quickly, our daughter has a complete meltdown. We tell her to stop crying, and if she doesn't, we let her throw a fit (if at home) and talk it through later when she's not as hysterical.

Good luck!

I know your frustration T.. My son is nearly 3 and pulls that with me as well. When he has to be put in time out, I tell him why he is there, set the timer, tell him that I love him and walk away. After the time out is over I ask him to come talk to me about why he was in time out. He usually can't or won't tell me however it is a good time to reinforce what he did that was inappropriate and to remind him that he is a good boy and very loved. I am a single mom and my son crys for his dad, my sister, my mom.... anyone he can think of when he doesn't like my rules. It changes from day to day with kids. Some days you are the best thing since sliced bread and others you are mud on their shoes. Take the good with the bad and remember to smile everyday! Children are a blessing and a chllenge.

When my daughter throws little fits, I always tell her that she need to calm down and use her normal voice. If she is in a time out, she is told, "when you are calm, then you can come out (she goes to her room)."

I wouldn't even attempt to talk to him until he was calm.

Holy Cow , been there , done that : from age 2 - 3 a child will try to manipulate and control you with what I call (scream tatics) now keep in mind that this is from a fartherly view point/ solution , my sister used the same solution and by God as my witness it works every time (girl or boy) ( 1) Go ahead and give them a BIG time out (but in their room ) ( 2 ) pop in like clock work (about every 20 min) and say (are you done yet ) over a period of time the child will get the idea that the screaming isn`t working any more. they will give up and start to listen , when all else fails we have learned about an old saying that says Miracles are done daily , the impossible just takes a little bit longer . in translation : the screaming gas tank will run out of fuel sooner or later , we know of one case that was so bad that the father made his son do push up`s while he was screaming .
he must have been ex army . now none of these examples will work if you as the parent cave in /give up . if one wants to listen to a screamer all the rest of their parenting life go ahead and give just one time . final note: nip this problem before your child reaches 5 years of age or be prepaired to have a controling teenager on your hands. paschar

Hi T..
Have you talked to him about time out when he's not in trouble? Maybe if you explain why time outs happen ahead of time he will be a little calmer when he has one. Maybe you could tell him that when you put him in time out you aren't mad at him and that you still love him and are really very sad about what he has done. Let him know that when it is over you can't wait to talk nicely to each other and go back to having fun.
I know every child is different. Good luck finding the approach that works for your little guy. And hang in there... lots of kids don't have moms who care enough to discipline them in a loving way.
:)

You just have to stay strong. You did the right thing. General Rule of Thumb is that they are in timeout as many minutes as they are years old. In your case 2 1/2 minutes. I make my boys tell me why they are in time out (I tell them while I'm putting them there) and to apologize, then hugs. Screaming and throwing a fit just makes the naughty step take longer. Time doesn't start until he/she calms down. Don't let your son suck you in with his fit. He's looking for attention and for you to feel sorry for him and take him off the step. Also make sure your husband has your back. Sounds like your son is trying to divide and conquer! Good luck! Stay strong!

At the very least, daddy and mommy need to always be ONE team. So if you're boy is asking for Daddy, and if daddy's in the room, Daddy needs to reinforce what mommy is saying with a FIRM and simple, "Listen to your mommy." But not get in between mommy trying to discipline son or allow son to get the opportunity to talk to daddy until he has done what is expected - having his talk with mommy.

My husband backs me up with everything and vice versa. So if your son is asking for daddy and wanting to "go over your head", ask yourself what Daddy's relationship with him is like..in regards to discipline? Is it align with your goals and methods? Are you guys on the same page and do you guys back each other up? Why does he feel like Daddy will be better to talk to? Is it because Daddy's rules are different?

I think, at the very least, evaluating that and making sure FIRST that Mommy and Daddy are ONE team is the foundation for raising any child and may well resolve your current problem. But at the very least, this is a good foundation to start at before doing all else.