How to Discipline Three Year Olds?

So...the system YOU devised and implemented works?
And now YOU'RE tired of it?
He's 3.
Get used to reminding.
Gonna be a while.

I promise you his teachers are repeating things all day long (time to clean up, sand stays outside, time to put on our coats, we use our words not hands, etc.) but what they are not doing is asking, they are TELLING.
You don't argue or bargain with a three year old, you simply say, this is what we are doing now.
Choices should be limited and very small:
it's time to put on your socks, do you want to wear the red or the blue ones?
it's time to wash hands for dinner, you can come to the table when your hands are clean.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
It never ends.
I have teenagers now and it's still going on:
did you remember you need to pick up your sister today? Turn off the TV/lights when you leave the room, I'm not washing your clothes unless you bring them to the laundry room, if you miss curfew you're not getting the car on Friday, etc. etc. etc.
Parenthood may be a joy but it's also a monotonous, draining, never ending test of our patience.

It honestly sounds like you have a great method, in terms of counting to 3. I think your big mistake is expecting him to behave at home the way he behaves at school. Just about every kid does that. They "save" their good behavior for the teacher; they save their bad behavior for their mom. And, really, he's paying you a huge, huge compliment. He's telling you, "I know you love M. so much, I can let my guard down around you. I can relax. I can express my frustration about being tiny, and full of big opinions and ideas, and never getting to do what I want. Because I know you'll love M. no matter what."

The mistake (and it's a common mistake, it's not just you) is to think that when he's on his best behavior, that's his true self, and when he's misbehaving, it's this special bad behavior that's completely under his control. Doesn't work that way. If anything, he's being his full, complete self at home with you. He's playing "perfect kid" at school because he wants to impress his teacher and friends. But that's exhausting, and he can't keep it up at home.

So really, all you need are lowered (realistic) expectations. I mean, you've admitted yourself that you have imperfect control over your own frustration -- hence you make threats that you can't and won't carry out. I don't point that out to be mean, we all struggle with this stuff, but it's not fair to expect a 3-year-old to have better self-control than you do.

He WILL grow into a stage when he can accept limits and internalize rules better. 4 is a lot easier than 3. In terms of practical advice, when my son was 3, I finally also learned (rather late in the game) to give MYSELF a time-out. I literally told my son, "M. needs to stand in the bathroom and take a deep breath, with privacy." I also found it more effective to put my son's toys in time out, rather than put him in time out. If he shaped up his act, he got his toys (one at a time) back, so that created a system of positive incentives.

Stick with your counting to 3, and be completely consistent about it. Always state the consequence up front when you start to count. Eg "I asked you to put your toys away. If you don't, your train will go into time out. One." Then "Two, toys away or the train goes to time out." Then "Three, the train is in time out now."

If you do it, and are completely consistent, in time it will fade away. My son is almost four, and at this point, all I have to do is say "Do I need to start counting?" and he says no, and does what I asked him to do.

Yes, he is going to test you over and over and over again, to see if the rules change. The only way to handle it is to be completely consistent. If he sees that sometimes the rules DO change, then he will test you even more.

As for school - he's probably a bright kid, and he sees other kids get into trouble for misbehaving. So HE doesn't need to test every rule 3 times a day, because he sees other kids testing the rules constantly and he can see that the rules are consistent.

Finally - never ever give consequences that you won't follow through on. It undermines your credibility. He's thinking - I know she didn't really mean it when she said she would leave M. at home alone for not behaving. So maybe she doesn't really mean it when she says I have to pick up my toys. Let M. test this and find out.

Instead, use more logical consequences. You won't put your shoes on? Then you have to go to school without shoes. (I got as far as strapping him into the car seat once without shoes before he begged M. to let him get his shoes on.)

And yeah, when my kids got the hang of consequences, they tried to turn it around on M. too. "If you don't give M. XYZ, then I'll put you in time out." I just look at them and say "You're not the parent. You don't make the rules."

He behaves better at school than at home because he KNOWS that you and Daddy will love him, he's testing you to see how far you'll let him go. He's not going to test his teacher, he's not as secure in his relationship with her as he is with you. Perfectly normal. We do a lot of counting to 3 as well, and while it gets tedious to be counting for everything my son doesn't want to hop up and do, it gets results and is much better than yelling or threatening.

Give him a consequence: If you don't get dressed, then you can't do ______. Make it something that is going to be happening very soon, so it's fresh in his mind WHY he can't have/do whatever it is. Don't make threats that you can't or won't follow through with, don't yell, don't bargain. Little ones are smart, if he hears threats that never happen he won't believe you when you mean it. At this age, they need lots of reminding and sometimes you will have to repeat yourself. It's just the nature of the beast. Try to not get too frustrated. Get down on his level and make sure he is looking at you and listening to you when you ask him to do something. They get distracted very easily, by things we may not even notice. It may not always be a case of him willfully ignoring you, as much as he really didn't hear what it was you wanted him to do. He's learning to be a big kid, it can be a rough time. Good luck!

A couple things...

-counting to 3 works if they understand there will be consequences when you hit 3 and you follow through EVERY time (1,2,3 magic book is awesome!) No warnings...
-don't forget to reinforce positive behaviors! It goes a loooong way!
-He's 3!!! You say 2's weren't bad then you were lucky! My 3 year old uses up every ounce of patience I have and has for the last year or so! I remember going through this with my older son and around 4 ish is when it started to get a little better :)

Good luck! It's all normal and just another phase..

When my 3.5 yo DD chooses to ignore M., I just pick her up and put her on a chair, in her room, whatever is handy and makes some sense and tell her that she has to stay there until she decides she will do whatever. I might also remind her what she is missing out on...

So, if she is refusing to take off her shoes, I might put her in he kitchen chair, and tell her, "you can get down when you decide to take off your shoes, then we can go play dinosaurs."

I have a timer that I set when it's time to pick up toys. She knows that if the timer goes off, anything left on the floor goes into MY room until the next time she picks up all if her toys. (If she doesn't pick up the next day, then I take those toys too... When she picks up all the toys, I put the box of confiscated toys in her room and she gets until the timer runs down to put as many toys out of it away as she can.)

Honestly, I'm not a fan of the 1-2-3 method. The idea of giving your child prior warning is nice, but I feel that it teaches your child that it's ok to ignore you until you get to 3. It's one if those things that some parents like and can use well, but it's not for M..

One thing I have started doing recently, that has REALLY helped, was to tell her to do something (making sure to get her attention first, and bend down to speak at her level..) then, if she ignores M., I will get her attention again, have her stand right in front of M. and look M. in the face. (Again, crouching to her level.) I will then ask her, "what did I just ask you to do?" Half the time she will repeat what I asked the other half I have to remind her (and have her repeat it to M..) Then I will ask her, "So what do you need to do now?" (Have her repeat the task back.) then I will send her to go do it. I have been doing this for he last 3 months now, and this method has only failed M. twice. (Which resulted in the very first method I suggested of time-out until she decides to do it.)

Also, don't make threats you aren't willing to follow through with. He WILL pick up on it, and they will completely lose effectiveness. He needs to know that he will receive whatever punishment you threaten him with.

We use 123 magic, time outs, and have been to a behavioral therapist/ parenting coach.
1. take heart- your kid can behave well in the classroom. That means he is capable of behaving.
2. the classroom teachers have shared with M. that they can get kids to behave in the classroom, but sometimes struggle with their own, at home. There is something magic about the classroom, and something to be said for herd mentality at the younger ages.
3. try setting up expectations for transitions - in the car let him know, when you get home, you will first take off and put away your coat and shoes, then wash your hands, then do something nice.
4. make it a race against the clock- set a kitchen timer for 3- 5 minutes, if he gets stuff accomplished within that time frame reward; if not either, don't reward or punish if appropriate.
5. use charts- pictographic to set out routines.
6. these were strategies learned from the behavioral therapist-
a. build compliance. ask your kid to do something for you that he will gladly do. in our case, it might be squeezing lemons. then praise lavishly. try to get 2 back to back compliance measures, then stretch to 3 then 5, then 10. the point is, you want your kid habituated to listening and saying yes, rather than ignoring and fighting you.
b. take time to play. let them lead the play, you be a companion, not a parent/ disciplinarian. this builds love and trust, which builds compliance.
7. build in more margins, allow extra time for things which you know will take a while.
8. expect to repeat. It will take time, but the lessons will sink in.
9. Don't forget to praise, praise praise. Make a spectacle of everything he does right, and he will be more eager to gain your praise.
Our kid was a terror at 3, and within 2 months, a changed, compliant, and lovely boy.

Best,
F. B.

You are doing very well! You have gotten great advice.

You just have to apply it for years. Sorry, there is no break. There are better times of listening than others. 4 is better but a lot of bargaining and manipulating. In my experience, 5 was a great age. Live for 5!

If you continue with the good expectations and consequences for a couple more years, you won't believe how much torment you will have avoided!
When others are struggling with their 7 and 8 yr olds, you will be having a much smoother time. There will still be challenges, but the basics will be set in place. I know! A couple more YEARS! Yes, that's less than middle school, you will make it! Lol.

My three year old has gotten a bit mouthy lately, making demands without saying please, talking back ALOT, etc. what we have been doing is a combo of reminders, time outs, explaining exactly the consequences of his actions and lastly if it comes to it a couple pops on his hiney. For instance, yesterday my 3 and 6 yr olds were wrestling and jumping all over the couches and I told them once to settle down while they watched their show. They didn't, so I went in the living room and broke it down for them, I told them they were 'grounded' one on each couch till their show ended, if they got up at all, they would be grounded to their bed, if they got up before they were told they could, they would get a spanking. They chilled for 15 min, then were much calmer. If I got home and my child would not remove their shoes or coat I would do the same, they would be sent to the corner until they thought they could manage to get their things off and put up. The hard part is consistency of course. We all get lax, pick up the slack for our kids at times, don't step in with swift consequences. I think just as someone else said, being quick to do whatever you say you will is important. I also think explaining exactly what will happen, calmly helps, that way when you enforce things you can say, ' remember M. told you....' Kind of sends that message of 'look kid, you knew this going in, so you chose this path...' Good luck, I think 3 is just a tough age for lots of us!

Get the book 1,2 3 magic. You are already doing the basics. It's just the follow thrus you need to find tune. Sounds like your son understand the
Rules/consequences in class. And he knows at home how far too push. I can say I did not ever "explain" over and over and or "threaten" unless it is something you are going to follow thru on. You need to pick your battles. If he chooses not to take off and hang up his coat biggie let him wear it. Shoes must come off. Does he have his own hook to hang his coat? Toys left out are lost for a week. Not given back when he finally picks up. That's not a consequence unless he actually loses it. Rules for his age should be no more than 4 word sentences. And you will need separate rules for behavior and household
Example
No running inside
Hitting is not allowed
Use your inside voice
Put toys away after play
Shoes on the rug
Hang up coats

Does he have designated storage for toys? Baskets for cars and trucks, shelves for books etc? We found it was easier for them to put away if they knew where they went.

Last thing. It's ok to say NO! It's also ok to expect blind obedience from your child. They do not need to be given explanations about why you expect something. You are the parent and they are the child. They can make the rules when they are older.

Good luck

I have ALWAYS said that I do not have the time or patience to count to three every time I tell a child to do/not to do something. And that if you get them used to that, you will have to count to three EVERY TIME! That would send M. into a homicidal rage!

Your son knows that the teachers mean business and he does what they ask of him. THEY have established their authority with him - you have not.

Part of the problem is telling him over and over before implementing a consequence. I would change that right now.

For example, I tell my grandkids to pick up their stuff. Whatever they leave on the floor is garbage. Then, when I find a toy on the floor, I will call them to the room, show them the toy and let them watch M. throw it in the trash. And it doesn't come back out. Once it's garbage, it's garbage. They have only had to watch their toy being thrown away no more than two times for each child. Now when grandma says clean up, they clean up including checking under the couch, bed, chair, etc. They KNOW if they leave something out, it's gone for good. No threats; no counting; just do it.

As for something like the coat or shoes, tell him once. If he doesn't do it, let him continue to wear the coat and shoes, but when he asks YOU for something, give him the same response - don't pay attention. And I mean, do not react or respond in any manner. When you see that he's getting frustrated because you're not listening, explain to him that when he starts listening to you, you will listen to him and then continue on with what you're doing and pay no attention to his requests. If he gets out of hand because you won't listen, quietly pick him up, put him in his room, close the door and go about your business. He will catch on and he will KNOW that he will get as good as he gives. That's life! You get what you give.