Help! Friend Giving 3 Year Old Espresso!

Unless the child has ADHD she should not be giving him caffeine.
his sugar intake is likely the root of his behavior problems.

if he were ADHD the caffeine would calm him down.

I would just leave it alone. Maybe she has a reason that she does not want to tell you. You voiced concern, now it is up to her.

The part that gets me is that he doesn't even like it! Wow, I don't think I've been this floored with any post on here...Most of the time its easier just to give them what they want to keep peace at moments, but he's 1) Not asking for it and 2) Doesnt enjoy it!!!!!

If her husband and her and that adament about them having coffee, perhaps slip an anonymous note to his teacher letting them know he has coffee every morning! This is interesting, cant wait to read the other posts

Actually, an 8oz hot chocolate at Starbucks has 15 mg caffeine. Thats the same as a 8oz cup of brewed decaf coffee from Starbucks. One shot of Starbucks decaf espresso (what would be in an 8 oz latte) has around 3 mg of caffeine in it. That's 12 mg less than your suggested hot cocoa.

How much caffeine we ingest, our age when we do, what we eat/drink it in is largely cultural.

Our son has ADHD and we used caffeine in soda form periodically to calm him down until we could get medical help for him (takes a long time to get the right appts. with specialists). However, it's not a long-term solution, is very short-acting and it's addictive, unlike the medications that do treat this medical condition. Again, we didn't use it daily because of the addictive quality of caffeine and in general, it's just not the healthiest choice for a young child.

If he's bouncing off the walls after having caffeine, he doesn't have ADHD.

It's not up to you to offer your two cents, though, unless asked. Parents do all sorts of goofy things but unless she asks for your opinion, best not to speak up. No one wants their parenting abilities called into question.

MYOB

Blessings.......

She did order decaf...when I was working at a coffee shop almost all the coffee moms would order the kids decaf drinks or big mugs of overly sugared hot chocolate. The kids who get chocolate milk or strawberry flavored milk are getting AS MUCH sugar in the flavored milk as in a can of soda...I am sorry, but if you have voiced "Concern" then there is nothing more you can do...it is sad, but it is much of what Society approves these days...I am a coffee drinker, my kids get cups of milk coffee as a treat from time to time...they also get to drink soda on special occasions. I would say, in this incident, that you are free to raise your children as you see fit, but keep your judgement of the other momma to yourself.

I would leave it alone. For one, decaf does not have caffeine, that is why they call it decaf. But also giving children coffee is not unheard of. My grandma used to mix coffee and milk for us kids all the time as a treat, and it was not decaf! We all turned out fine. It is her child, you may not agree with her parenting choices, but they are hers to make.

I've given my (8yo) son espresso for YEARS... because he's adhd and caffeine is calming. It's a lot milder than meds, and much shorter acting. One can only expect 20-60 minutes worth of effect from drinking a caffeinated bev, unless we're sipping on it throughout the day. While a med releases over several hours (4, 12, & 24 are the average release times).

Decaf still has caffeine, so that's what I'd use when he was smaller (for a lower dose), nowadays at nearly 5 feet and 75lbs, he gets regular old Illy or Starbucks espresso (with an italian level of sugar, aka a LOT) or mochas.

I try an avoid sodas for the carbonation. The sugar he's FINE with, better actually (he only sugar rushes with bday cake + icecream + juice), and he never crashes... just gets a little wired. Anyhow, the carbonation messes a LITTLE with ca++ absorbtion, so I'd rather bypass soda and stick with espresso. ((Also, to know, espresso has less caff than drip coffee, because it sits in the grind for less time)). Not enough for me to totally ban carbonation, but enough that it makes those drinks a 2nd choice.

For someone who is adhd (like myself and my son), we have OPPOSITE stimulant reaction. Stimulants *do* perk us up (kind of like surfacing for air), but they also to greater or lesser extent calm us down. Whenever I have a SUPER boing meeting to attend, or have to go to bed NOW, but am wide awake, I get an extrashot Venti Caramel Machiato and half doze through the meeting (boredom doesn't make us sleepy, it makes us jumping out of our own skin, and want to climb the walls) or climb into jammies and toothbrush and bed and am out like a light. The hard thing about adhd KIDS and caffiene is not overdoing... because it DOES make us sleepy. Which translates to cranky or superhappysuperhappysuperhappycrash!, depending on their personality. But as we grow older, we can self regulate fairly easily. Kids though, we parents have to go by trial and error. I forgot to use decaf at one point, and my son slept through his art class. Whoops.

As far as caffeine stunting growth... if it really does... thank GOD. I started drinking coffee at 5, and Mtn Dew at 8. And I'm 6'1. My 8yo, like I mentioned, is nearly 5 feet... and is projected to be 6'3 to 6'6.

my sisters and I all grew up going to our great aunt's on saturdays and the special treat was coffee. It was of course mostly milk and had a duck (scoop of vanilla ice cream on the top) it is one of my favorite childhood memories :) There is not a thing wrong with the three of us and we stand 5'6, 5'9 and 6' so I don't think it stunts growth. When all the grandkids get together at my MILs the specail treat is decaf tea or coffee and again its mostly milk Oh and GASP! I drank coffee while pregnant and have not seen any side effects in either of my boys my youngest had a slight speech delay and what we thought was over sensitive to food textures turned out he was tongue tied and since corrected is great :)
FYI a decaf espresso has less caffeine then a hot chocolate or a hershey's candy bar

You already voiced your concern. Twice, at least, right? So, now you be quiet about it.
I don't understand why they would give him coffee and neither do you. But you asked, she answered, you asked again, she answered, now you need to butt out or she will be offended that you keep questioning her.
L.

I haven't read all your other responses, but my reaction is this. In Europe, it's fairly common for children to have coffee or espresso. When I lived with a family in France as an exchange student, breakfast every morning (for the whole family) was a large cup of cafe au lait, into which you would dip a biscotti-type cookie. And French children are not (usually) raving lunatics. My in-laws live in Italy, and my SIL has given her children espresso drinks since they were little. It's really very common there. We as Americans tend to be very puritanical about a lot of things, really. Just my observation.

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It's not your business to voice your "concern"(I hate that word by the way!). She is the mom, so let her worry about her kids and you worry about yours. Maybe you can spend some of this energy having real concern for the children who truly are abused and neglected, not a kid who's mom, gives him cookies and coffee. If you value her friendship, then keep hush about your opinion.

We've gotten our kids decaff mochas now and again as a treat. It's just as sugary as flavored milks or hot chocolate and not that much less healthier really. Figure, it's a treat. We don't go to Starbucks very much, really the only times are holiday mornings-Thanksgiving, Easter, Xmas and the very rare times in between. We will sometimes get a cookie as a treat and we really like the muffins.

OK, while it isn't something I would have done, how many parents give their kids even sips of soda and chocolate.
But I kind of chuckled because I remember my husband's grandmother telling a similar story. She used to give my father in law and her other son sips of coffee with lots of milk when they were little. She was told then that it would stunt their growth and make them stupid. My father in law and my husband's uncle were both over 6 foot and very successful business men, each in their own right! She loved telling that story, may she rest in peace!

Hi M.
OH MY GOD!!!
I am laughing in shock reading this.I can't believe that they are giving their children coffee.I wouldn't say much if she let her kids take a little sip to taste her tea but to buy him his own coffee.
For crying out loud what planet is she on !!!
I think if you are a good friend to someone honesty is the only way to go.
Tell her you disagree with her and it is up to her how she responds to that.
At least you conscious is clear that you just didn't sit by and watch this mad behaviour.
Best wishes
B.

Every single time she mentions he's in trouble at school or describes him as wild, or you witness or hear about some inappropriate behavior
I'd casually reply with "too much sugar or chocolate or caffeine might do that, " No lecture. No sympathy. No denial. She will def have to hear it over and over again before she begins to wonder if its true

Updated

Every single time she mentions he's in trouble at school or describes him as wild, or you witness or hear about some inappropriate behavior
I'd casually reply with "too much sugar or chocolate or caffeine might do that, " No lecture. No sympathy. No denial. She will def have to hear it over and over again before she begins to wonder if its true

sounds like they are 'medicating' the kid.
BUT, it does not make him better, it makes him WORSE.

And they keep egging him on to drink it??? Geez.

I wonder what their Pediatrician would say?

Do a Google search on the effects of coffee/caffeine on kids. It also is a diuretic... and can leech calcium from the body etc.

He is being given "adult" proportions of REGULAR coffee...from the Dad, in the morning....
And they give him a cookie... when he says he is hungry. Even if he does not want it.
Whoa.

Yah, what IS going on here, as you said.

I actually had a similar reaction last year when not only was my 8 year old autistic nephew downing coca-cola (he's overweight as well) but I learned that he has his morning cup of joe. I have never seen him hyper but as a younger child he did wander around constantly with no purpose. I hope they don't give their 4 year old daughter coffee because the majority of kids do not need it nor do they need other sugery drink treats. But its a treat and everyone has something they give as a treat (my son likes fries). He might have something else wrong with him that she is not comfortable discussing so since you already questioned it, you have to leave it be. I know you just want to help.

Has she ever asked for your advice about the behavior issues, or brought it up? If so, then you should mention the coffee, to maybe cut it out, so see if there is a difference. Unfortunately, I don't think there is much else you can do if she and her husband have decided to give this to their kids. I have a friend that from 1.5 on, would buy her daughter a hot chocolate at starbucks whenever she went. Not something I agreed with, but she isn't my child either.

Your friend actually sounds "normal" to me. People (including you and I) do get funny ideas that can hang on in the face of evidence to the contrary. I sometimes survey my beliefs for these ideas, and am surprised by what has snuck in since my last investigation, or what turns out to be untrue in light of the most recent evidence.

But not everybody makes a stab at mental housecleaning. So if your friend is relying on the experimental evidence that caffeine has a (very brief) calming effect on some hyperactive children, she may not really notice that it isn't working that way on her son. Or your belief that it's definitely got to be bad for him could have you noticing only whatever "evidence" supports your view. For example, is it possible that other exposures, or over-stimulation, are resulting in her son's bouncing off walls? Or is it possible that he does that anyway, but you notice it more after he's had coffee?

No finger-pointing here, M., this is just human nature, and we all do it. We'd probably be surprised to find out how often (I know I surprise myself).

There is quite a bit of evidence that coffee, or caffeine from coffee (as opposed to caffeine from soft drinks), actually have unexpected, significant health benefits. Whether or not these are worth the behavioral tradeoffs (if any), is an open question, as is whether coffee is good or bad for children. If you are interested in some recent news about coffee, check out these links: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15823127/

There are mixed reports on what nutritional or health benefits just about any food or supplement can give, and new evidence does sometimes become available to update our understanding. The best, safest rule is usually "moderation." I personally am horrified at parents giving soft drinks to their kids, because most sodas have more caffeine than coffee, are loaded with sugar and phosphorus, are empty calories, and are unmoderated by any of the antioxidants or other possible health-enhancing compounds found in coffee.

Wow. That just goes to show you how seemingly smart people can be really stupid.

I don't know if you can say anything about this without causing your friend to be mad or get defensive. I suppose if it bothers you enough, you could say something the next time your friend complains about her son's behavior, but otherwise I wouldn't mention it.

Tell her that caffeine stunts your growth. I'm not sure if it a wive's tale or not, but it might make her think twice. Plus caffeine is really addicting ... and all that sugar. Yikes!!

no one in there right mind gives a kid coffee..they will become adicted,and hyper you should tell her that its not good for the baby and might cause problems latter on, i have a two year old and my husband gave him a zip once ever since he asks for some so i give him chocolate milk and he thinks that is coffee... so just go up and tell her it is bad..

Wow, that's insane! Who would give a child coffee everyday b/4 school? I wonder if since it's their 3rd child, if they really don't care anymore (I'm sure they love him, but they seem to have such a flip attitude about it). I don't know what the answer is...your friend is lacking some common sense & some common parenting skills. I think, for the kid's sake, you need to voice your concerns honestly. The child's health & well being is worth her hearing the truth from someone who cares about her.

I have heard that for some ADHD kids, regular coffee actually has the opposite effect, it calms them down instead of making them more hyper. http://newideas.net/adhd/adhd-diet says "100 mg of caffeine is roughly the same as 5 mg of ritalin". Doesn't work for my son, but I have a friend who swears it's true for her family.
Sweet treats and coffee are nice if they don't go to the coffee shop often, but if I knew my child wouldn't eat what was there, I'd probably bring a healthy snack from home and not waste the money.

Decaf is perfectly fine actually. It's no different than ordering a decaf caramel frap at Starbucks for your child. Won't hurt them and since there is no caffeine, it won't affect them in the bad addictive ways either. :)

Regardless of whether this woman is or is not giving her young child caffeine (and decaf has relatively little), you have no idea what really makes the child act up. You seem to have drawn a firm conclusion without all of the facts. I would suggest letting it go.

And, there are numerous studies debunking the myth that sugar causes our little ones to become hyper. I know it can be hard to believe, but the studies seem well formulated and conclusive. My theory (also unproven) is that the times our kids get the most sugar (special occasions, birthday parties, ...) are the times they have the most stimulus via activities, excitement, etc. That's the more likely cause of any hyperactivity.

It sounds like the coffee is only one facet of the behavioral issue. My first step would be to suggest playdates (really? do you want your children to be around children acting like this?) away from coffee shops and restaurants.

It sounds as though she has a very permissive style of parenting and is overwhelmed. Or there may be other issues going on if she wants him to drink a 'grown-up drink' he doesn't even seem to like.

I think you will have to decide if you want to be her friend, or if you want to fix her parenting problems. I agree that what you are witnessing is alarming at best, but she will have to get to the point of needing to correct this on her own, and will likely be offended if you start making suggestions.

For some people, printing out some good information about the effects of diet on a child, and then just suggesting "Wow, I found this interesting article and want to share it with everyone!" is gentle and helpful. Then let it go.

It sounds like she might just need a friend. I'm sure that her child's future teachers are going to address this with her.

For what it's worth, I let my 3 year old son have a sip of my coffee drinks from time to time, but just a sip. He occasionally has a teeny (and I mean demitasse-sized) cup halfway filled with tea from the top of the pot, which has less caffiene, and half with rice milk. Otherwise, it's warm milk and vanilla for him!

Well, I think you were there, you witnessed it, and you could probably say something more without harming the friendship. She said, ""It's decaf, I don't know, maybe that's why he is so wild. It's hard to tell." So why not suggest to her "Hey, Jane, you know i noticed you giving Jack coffee. You mentioned he's pretty wild. So why not try stopping the coffee and seeing if that solves the problem? Poor kid, kids are pretty sensitive to food stimulants and he it may not be his fault that he's so wild, it may be the coffee."

BTW, I think they are crazy, but you don't have to say that to her:-)

Wow, you already have a lot of responses! I didn't read them all, but I can tell you this: I work at Starbucks and you would be surprised how many parents order coffee for their children. And not all of them order decaf. I personally give coffee in very limited doses to my son who has ADHD and it has an opposite effect on him. It even calms him down enough to take a nap sometimes. You just have to accept that it is her child and if she wants him to have coffee, then that is her choice. She's not stuffing it down your child's throat, so you shouldn't be concerned about it.

I find this shocking too, and I have a friend (two actually) who do this with their kids - and they are both married to doctors! But it's not my business to monitor what their kids are ingesting. I've just made it clear that I don't want them to give anything like that to my kid at playdates or social events. That's all you can do really, if you want to maintain the friendship.

Ask her why she gives it to him when he doesn't like it.
Many children grow to like coffee as they age. It is really too strong for a 3 year old's taste buds.
I drank coffee at an early age. My father taught me how to make it when I was 8 years old. I had decided by the time I entered school that I would never smoke or drink alcohol but coffee it ain't no life without it.
My children drank coffee when they were ready sometime during hight school. They still drink it

My youngest child started having seizures at the age of 13. Out of the blue---no warning.
We have to be very careful what he ingests and how much sleep he gets!

The Neurologist said "NO caffeine" for kids! It disrupts their sleep patterns and their brain waves and in some kids, the ingestion of caffeine can have visible results in an EEG.
All of my friends' who might take my son out for a meal, a social event, etc... know that I would like them to check with me before they feed my child. It's just part of the deal. If they value my friendship, they will abide by it.
The wrong drink given to my child could be a life-threatening situation.

(We have neighbors who have a child with ADHD. This girl is on sugar and coca-cola all day. This cannot help, if you ask me. I often wondered how she would act if her parents got rid of all the caffeine and sugar from the house.)

Those wild and crazy friends that I have---who think AFTER they act---we all have them. I enjoy being around them but will not bring my child along!!!
If I don't trust their judgement with my child, I make other arrangements. I still like those friends, but I spend time with them, if you know what I mean.