Handling Defiance and Whiny Behavior in 4 1/2 Year Old Daughter

My 5 year old son does the same thing. We threaten to take things away from him but it would never bother him. So, we talked to his daycare provider and she suggest to reward him with something special that he wanted to do. So, I bought a white board and after he got 7 happy faces he got to pick something fun to do. He likes doing fun things like go bowling, movies, and going out for pizza. And now he likes to do more chores around the house to earn those happy faces.

My son can be defiant at times. When he started Kindergarten and it began to get cold he would refuse to put his jacket on. I told him that he could do it the hard way or the easy way. The easy way would be for him to put it on and be done with it. The hard way for me to put it on him while he cried and threw a fit. So for 2 days I had to hold him down on the floor and put his coat on him. After 2 days he realized he was getting his coat on whether he liked it or not. To get him to do things at home like pick up his toys I would tell him that he is not going to anything else until they are picked up. I told him he could get up when he was ready to pick up. So he would sit there (in time out) and pout for awhile and then realize he better do it if he wants to get up and play. Most of the time he does it when I tell him to now, he might complain but he does it. Maybe this could work for you. Good Luck!

I wish I had some advice. Sounds exactly like my 4 year old daughter. This has always been her personality as well and I am tired of the battles also. If you get any good answers, I'd love to know!

Our son is a couple months shy of being 4 1/2 & we were having to deal with the same kinds of behaviors.

We instituted a month-long behavior chart that we call a "decisions chart." It clearly outlines about 6-8 "good decisions" (picking up toys, not using whiny voice, getting out of the tub right away) that are issues we're having with behavior, but maybe weren't as serious as other behaviors. There are also "bad decisions" on the chart (usually about 4-5, always fewer bad than good) that we need to work on - stomping feet when angry, talking back, using hateful voice, etc. Each good decision earns him a sticker, each bad decision earns a frowny face & he loses a "point" for the day. We total his points every night after dinner (stickers minus frownies), and at certain milestones (every 25 points right now, which is about once a week or so depending on how well he's behaving) he earns a reward. Doesn't have to be a toy or a thing - it's been a special treat after dinner, lunch out with mom, getting to stay up an hour later on the weekend.

It worked wonders & it worked fast. He's a very bright little boy, but he needed the visual representation to understand how frequently he was misbehaving. As he gets older, we'll transition it into more of a chore chart because it makes a lot of sense to him & he really takes pride in making good decisions & behaving well. Last month he could earn 8 points a day, and he was consistently earning 5-7.

Outright punishment just didn't work for him - we were constantly taking things away, and it didn't matter... the behaviors weren't changing. This works for us really well!

Good luck!
J.
Mom to Chase (4) & Paige (due 6.2.08)

The book that helped me in this area is "Raising Your Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. This book helps you to figure out how to work with your child - by first changing the way you look at her. For example, think of her not as "defiant", but as "independent". Sounds better, doesn't it? More importantly, you just felt a little spurt of pride for your "independent" little girl, rather than the disappointment that goes along with "defiant".

Now, how can you work with that independence and still teach her that she still needs to listen to and respect you? Perhaps something as simple as finding a small coatrack (or better, having her help build one of her own, or nail a hook to the wall) will give her ownership of that task, and she'll be thrilled to use it every day, because it's *hers* - and suddenly it becomes a habit. (this exact situation happened in my house, by the way, and that's how I handled it - now the first thing he does upon entering the house is coat off and hung up, shoes off/slippers on)

My son falls into Kurcinka's "Spunky" category... and just as important, *I* fall into that "Spunky" category, as well. She teaches you how to mesh your personal strengths and temperament with your child's strengths and temperament; she also teaches you how to manage those times when your temperaments clash. In the end, the ultimate goal is to foster an understanding between parent and child, which ultimately leads to respect being a two-way street.

Does she need some positive alone time with you? She may need more attention. Try to set aside time to do fun things with her and make sure not to reward the misbehavior with attention.

How? First, ignore the whining and little things. Explain that your ears can't hear that kind of talk, and even tell her straight out "what I want to hear is: Mom, can I please have a glass of lemonade?" So often we tell them "don't", but they are left wondering what we DO want them to do. So be clear.

Secondly, don't bother with threats, don't make deals, and certainly don't confuse her by acting on her level. Be as calm and matter-of-fact as possible. Tell her, "Please hang up your jacket now." If she does it, praise her "great job, you are such a helpful girl!" If she doesn't, tell her "I will help you" and go right over and take her by the hand and kindly but firmly "help" her hang up the jacket. If she is like my son, this will outrage her because he wants to do it himself (even if he has just refused to). But don't let her do it herself if she didn't right away. Help her, and then tell her that next time she can do it herself. Or, if she didn't care about doing it on her own, don't say anything. Just help her and then go on about your business. No extra attention for noncompliance (positive or negative).

Once she sees that she doesn't get attention for the noncompliance, she will do it less. Especially if you give her positive attention at other times. And she will learn to do it right away, because you don't give threats, you take immediate action.

Final note: sometimes kids need to test you and complain, etc.
They need to see that they can trust Mom to be a reasonable adult even when they are acting like the immature children that they are. So I caution against some of the advice I read.

Have you ever heard of "love and logic", it's greating reading on parenting as well as teaching kids. Make sure you follow thru with your threat's. Give her a choice, she hangs up her coat or you will do it for her. When she says "fine" you do it, go ahead a hang it up for her. Only put it some place that she can not get to. When she needs her coat, make it unavailable for awhile, she wasn't responsible to take of it, she can't wear it. Obviously, have a back up coat, and she throw a fit and wants the original coat, tell her "you love her to much to argue". They usually don't know how to respond. If she chooses to go with no coat, let her. don't give in, she won't freeze to death. Let her know "she" made the choice not you. Try to ignore the whiny, eventually she will stop.
Good luck, would love to hear how it goes.
mary

I wonder if it would help to follow the request with a benefit. For example, "Once you hang up your coat, we can read a book/have our snack/do playdough, etc" This way she knows that the next thing that she's going to do isn't going to happen until she's done the requested task.

I have a very strong willed 4 year old boy and we have recently read Strong willed child by James Dobson. I would encourage you to look at this book and others that are specific to her characteristics.

I know this may sound "far-fetched" but I am the mother of 3 children. (8,3, & 2 months) Anyway, when my 2 older ones are hungry they become very strong-willed, whiny & throw tantrums.
I try to make sure they have a snack/meal every 2-3 hours & they are the most wonderful little boys ever! However, if we miss a snack they act the way I mentioned above. When children don't eat/snack regularly their blood sugar drops & it definetely affects their mood!!! Try not to give sugary snacks too often though because their blood sugar will rise & then really drop low! Try it for a week consistently & see if this helps!!!

For the whining you need to ignore it and act like you can't hear or comprehend her when she talks like that. You need to explain that to her before you start. Do not respond to her verbally or nonverbally until she speaks in a desired tone. You may have to walk away at times.

For other undesired behaviours that are reocurring overcorrection may work. Example) For not hanging up coat when asked tell her she must practice until she gets it right. Have her hang up her coat like 10 times in a row. If she throws a fit guide her hand thru the actions. If she still refuses to hang up her coat the next time asked tell her she must still need more practice and follow thru w/ the actions. I just learned this in a parenting class, but haven't put it into action yet, but I think it would work for your example since it fits the examples given in class. Usually kids will correct their actions because just doing it is easier than the practice that will follow if they don't.

Do you make good on your threats? My husband would threaten to take a favorite toy or privilege, but wouldn't follow through, or would quickly reward him with ice cream or something less than an half an hour after our son was in trouble for something else. I on the other hand would stick to my guns. If I said no ice cream if you keep on poking your brother, he didn't get ice cream. No matter how much he howls. I hate being the bad cop all the time, but I started noticing that when my oldest would whine and tantrum, it wasn't with me. When I tell him to do something, he does it without any guff. What I'v noticed is he messes with my husband. I think its because he knows I will take his Matchbox cars and he won't see them for days or until he shapes up, but if he causes a stink with my husband, he'll eventually get his way.

One word: Empowerment. Try this: Choices. Give her empowerment by offering choices. My 5-year-old was the same until I started to give him the choice so he believed he was cooperating on his terms. "Please pick up your jacket." "No, I won't do it!" "Pick up your jacket or sit time-out until you're ready." Maybe she'll sit time-out, but if you stick with it, she'll eventually pick up the jacket. When she does, "Great choice! Now let's read a book together!" Or something positive for her having chose right. "Time to put on your jammies." "No, I don't want to!" "Put on your jammies or no story before bed, you choose." She's the big sister, so nipping this in the bud before her younger sister gets any ideas is crucial. When she does make the right choice, praise her for being such a good model for her sister to follow. If you freak out when she's being bull-headed, she'll probably freak out while being defiant. If you're calm when presenting her choices, matter-of-fact when saying she can sit time-out until she's ready to do what she's told, she may actually think about the choices presented and reconsider quickly.
Best of luck.

I highly recommend "What the Bible Says About Child Training" by Fugate. There is a battle of wills that goes on, beginning at birth for some, and it must be dealt with before they get very old. My second child sounds just like yours, and although I think we did a fairly good job of training her, she still has issues that make life difficult for her. It is never too early to train our children in self-discipline. The longer we wait, the greater the heartache. My daughter will be 20 this month and she is finally conquering her rebellious spirit with the help of a very patience beau and a lot of prayer.

SAHM of seven

Hi S. -
My husband and I have found that giving choices really makes kids feel good. You have to be okay with both - like asking your daughter, would you like milk or juice? You can carry your jacket or put it on. Just give little choices to her often every day, and you will see her light up just having a little power. It can be as simple as 'would you like to put on your pajamas now or in 2 minutes? Remember, that you have to be okay with both choices so that you both win :) When I started giving choices, I asked my daughter, you can get out of the tub now or stay in there all night. Well, she said stay in there all night, which was not a good choice to give. No, I did not leave her in there, but learned that I need to give myself a few seconds and not blurt out choices without thinking about it. Have fun! She will enjoy it, too!

I have raised 5 kids and did daycare for many others so I understand defiance well. My youngest son has Asperger's Syndrome so I also learned how to deal with his odd behavior which included horrible fits sometimes. Here are some things I learned:
1. Try not to be embarrassed by your child's behavior or back-talk if you are out in public. I figure the only people staring at me were ones who never had a kid talk back to them. Everyone else is just glad it's not their child.
2. Try to ignore it as much as you can.
3. Only issue threats you can and will carry out. They learn quickly what your breaking point is.
4. I also often would just take my child's hand and make them do whatever it was I had asked them. That way they know that no matter what they say, they are going to do what I had asked them to do.
5. Don't let them see you upset. It's the response they want.
6. Try to find time to spend 1 on 1 with your child. Sometimes what we think of as bad behavior is just their way of saying "I need attention"
7. Remember, they grow up and give you wonderful grandchildren. Whatever it takes to raise them, it is worth it.
I hope you find something you can use in all of this. I know it can be frustrating. Good luck!

Grannie is Iowa

Hi,

I have a 4yr old son. I also have a 7, 6 and almost 2yr old.

Anyway my 4yr old is my challenge. Very strong willed and very defiant, constant battles about everything.

There is a book that I want to read called the Strong Willed Child by Dr. James Dobson. My husband and I are taking a parenting class using one of his books right now. This past week it was on not breaking the spirit. You need to break their will--let them know you are in charge/control but be careful not to break their spirit which is very fragile while doing it. I have been learning a lot and know there will be many battles ahead, but am learning how to do it properly and effectively. He's just going to take more patience and work than my compliant children.

You need to find out what works to get the results you need. If she responds to taking a toy away do that. If she responds better to a timeout than use that. Discipline is training your child to get the behaviors you desire. Punishment is just a reaction to what they have done wrong. Always make sure you explain what they did wrong and have them repeat to you what they did and why they were in a timeout etc. and do apologies. It takes a lot of time but hopefully they learn from it and eventually stop that behavior.

Let me know if you would like any more information.

Make sure when this happens you are not just trying to "get your way" too, meaning, make sure she understands that her behavior is unacceptable, and as the mom it is your duty to make sure she learns and behaves properly. I know how frustrating it is to have to repeat and repeat the same lessons, but if you concentrate on it being a teaching exercise you're a little less likely to have a tantrum of your own ;).

Be firm and follow through. It will take up your time but it is necessary. My son was this way when he was little. He is 11 now and still tries to push the limits but one word from me and he does what he is told. When your daughter tells you no - you get down to her level and tell her that you love her very much but firmly tell her that she is going to hang up her coat - or whatever you told her to do. Take her by the hand and lead her to the coat. She is going to resist. And the first few times will be the worst. But after she does what you told her to - hug her - remind her again that you love her and sit with her calmly. Give her a treat. It can be as simple as reading her a story or some other activity that she likes to do. I avoided food because I didn't want my son to see food in that way. Remind her that when she does what she is asked - Mommy doesn't have to do it for her so Mommy has more time to do things with her. It won't happen overnight, but it worked for us. It took about 2 weeks for the worst of the resistance to end but it got better and better. Do not give in to her tantrums and whiny behavior. Just walk away and ignore it unless she is physically hurting herself. Also - I noticed that you are asking her to do things which gives her a choice. Don't give her a choice with your words. "Pick up your coat and hang it in the closet," (or whatever she is supposed to do with it). It isn't easy - but you have to ignore the bad behavior and reward the end result when she does what she is told. She isn't going to like it at first - but it should get better. Good Luck!

my dd will be 6 in a couple of months and she used to do this often as well. she's grown out of it mostly - but i just try to be consistent and let her know what i expect. We have a basket on the steps and if after a week, she hasn't brought something upstairs - I take it and put it away for a few weeks. She's learned but some days it's still a struggle.
good luck

Well just to warn you,sometimes my ways are considered strange. A couple things I had to try was:
1.)Throw the exact fit she is throwing at the time. Imitate it so she can see what she is doing. Not a grown up fit, just what she is doing. You will not believe how effective this can be.
2.) Or let that go,leave what ever it is where it is at. When she comes up and asks for something..which is never a long time when you are 4. They always want something... When she decides to ask for something,just say no. When she says "why?" Just simply say, I asked you to do that and you told me no. So I am not going to do what you want until you do what I asked. Period. Don't fight, don't explain further,nothing..Go back to what you were doing. You will be amazed.

I had 2 babies that were 10.5 months apart. One has Cerebral Palsy, and the other did what your 4.5 year old did. Just try it.

123 Magic is a wonderful video you can get from most libraries. It is used in our preschool and really seems to work with a small amount of adjusting at all ages.

You need to get the book Parenting with Love and Logic by Jim Fay. It is a wonderful resource in dealing with this kind of power struggle. He talks about giving choices and looking for natural consequences.
For example, always look for the win/win situation. Give your daughter a couple of choices about wearing her jacket. Your objective is to get her to take her coat. In a neutral voice, (not sarcastic or demanding, but nicely) ask, would you like to wear your jacket or carry it? She will feel like she has some ownership (or control, which is what she is trying to get from you) Once she gets outside and notices it is cold she will either have her jacket on already or if she chose to carry it will decide to put it on herself. This is a natural consequence and the power struggle is completely avoided. I am a school teacher and this book has worked wonders!
He has all sorts of different situations in which parents get into struggles with their children such as bedtime or cleaning their bedroom. Choices for these would be something like Would you rather put on your pj's or brush your teeth first? or Will you make your bed or pick up your toys first? Giving them choices allows them to make their own decisions, developing responsibility and independence. It is very powerful. The book also gives you good tips on holding them accountable and being consistent. Once you learn to think this way, it makes for a very peaceful atmosphere and fosters closer relationships with your child.

Hi S.
Is she getting enough sleep? she may be over tired and unable to to deal with life. If you think this may be the issue I would start putting her to bed 15 minutes early for three days and then a half hour and so on until you think she is sleeping well children her age should get at least 12 hours of sleep a night. Good Luck :) T.