Giving Parenting Advice to a Friend

I think if another child were negatively influencing mine, it would be time to put my foot down, personally. I don't care if their parents are my friend or not, my kid wins out 110% of the time. At minimum, a temporary hold on the babysitting should be put in place - "Until you can get him under control, I can't babysit him and have him around my kids" would suffice.

No one is forcing you to watch this kid. You CAN say no. No one is forcing you to be her friend. It sounds like you are one of those too nice people who doesn't like confrontation & as a result gets taken advantage of & becomes a doormat.

So, if you choose to continue being a part of their lives, and you don't want to say anything, then I'm sorry, there's nothing you can do about the child's behavior. What this woman needs is a dose of reality & honesty, but if you aren't willing to give it to her, then nothing will change.

I would not allow my kids over to her house, if it is as bad as you say. She won't change until she is willing and eager to change.

All you can do is suggest she get help.

As a preschool teacher and a peer mom, I've learned over the years never to offer advice unless it's asked for. When someone has asked, it's because they are aware/recognize that there is a problem, with their child or their selves, they've emotionally 'digested' that there is a problem in existence, that the acting-out behaviors are happening and need to be addressed.

Your friend has shown none of these things. In fact, she's in active, persistent denial. And she will likely tear you a new one for bringing up the same things she's likely heard from the school. Consider how she's responded to that and understand that any comment from you will garner the same response.

If it were me, I'd have to decide if I wanted to make my friendship exclusively an adults-only friendship, which means you can support her by going out for coffee or dinner/drinks alone without the kids, or if I wanted to distance myself completely. That said, from what you have described, I don't think your friend is going to be able to hear what you want to tell her, no matter how gently you go about it.

And really, do you want your kids playing with this little boy if he's truly leading them by the nose into mischief? Just a question to consider.

Added: having read your SWH, I do see where her actions might come from a deep place of guilt or fear. The sleeping arrangement you mention is a big red flag that there's something she's actively avoiding. Her guilt about working? Other perceived inadequacies? I like the idea of offering a book and leaving it at that.

I also understand the limits within your situation. Keep providing the loving, grounded structure and expectations when he's at your house and let mom discipline-- or not-- when she's present. Keep your kids in line when they are playing together, no matter whose house, and I would strongly suggest no unsupervised play as a mixed group. It sounds like the little boy is a 'line of sight' kid that needs to be watched 99% of the time. You can just to your friend "I've noticed that when we're not watching, they get into mischief" and just move to where they are playing without any more comment. She'll get it or not... her choice.

I wouldn't say anything. She's clearly been told there is a problem and chooses to blame others so who do you think she will blame if you say something? I also wouldn't let my kids go to her house anymore. But if they behave at your house you can continue to have her son over.

Control what you can--what happens at your house and how your children behave when they are around your friend's son.

I do not believe it is appropriate for you to tell her how to parent (no matter how well-meaning you are), just as much as you would not appreciate someone telling you how to raise your children. If you continue to have problems, then go back to what you can control... the time your children spend together.

I would distance myself from the friendship . . .

Uh.... you can't. Sorry to say, but parenting is not open for public negotiation. You can tell her how it is and is not acceptable to interact with your children, what behavior you accept from your children, but you can not tell someone how to raise their own kid. And to be honest, you don't know all the details of her interactions with the teacher and the principal, so I would refrain from passing judgement on that scene as well.

If you want to start a dialogue with her on the subject, with the hope of you both gaining a better understanding of the other, you ask questions. Non-judgemental questions as best you can muster. Start small and non-obtrusive and work from there.

Most kids behave better for others then mom so that isn't surprising. One thing I always did was see the difference in behavior when my kids were around ones who didn't have the same rules. I always thought my kids were very well behaved and I got a lot of complements on their behavior when they went to others homes and from the school. When they were around ones who didn't have the same rules they seemed to follow the bad ways much better. My husband was one who didn't watch them and correct them as much. I remember a friend telling me that my kids are so different with dad then they are with me, a lot naughtier. I also was told once that my kids were hellions when they were out of my sight. I think that they were having fun and didn't use their common sense but followed lead of another child who was always naughty..lol. I did learn one thing now that they are all grown up. They instigated a lot of the trouble they got into.

The point I am making is we all think we have the best kids, so much better behaved then the others they are around... to a point. So when they get into trouble it is the other kids fault. This lady sees your kids not listening, and perhaps they aren't and perhaps they are following her son's lead. Maybe your kids wouldn't get into the plant because they know that rule, but maybe they were just doing something they thought they could get away with just because it is fun. Don't take her pointing out your kids behavior personally, she means it no different then when you say her's doesn't listen. You can sit them down and tell them about how to respect other peoples things and listening to the adult when you are at someone elses house. Talk to them about how you can say no when someone wants to do something you know isn't right, even if it is fun. Mostly mark this up to parents, both you and this lady, knowing their own kids so they overlook a lot of misbehavior that others see.

As for the misbehavior at school, the teacher may have decided he was trouble and montor him close enough that she catches his misbehavor more often. Not all teachers are good with all children. It could be that when mom is home he is a little hellion too. Whichever it is, it is a family matter and really not something you can do something about other then teach him self control and help his self esteem when he is with you.

If she asks for your advice then be direct & non-accusatory. If she doesn't then discipline your children as you normally would if they "follow" & end the playdate immediately. Before they play together remind your children of your expectations.

I would also stop picking him up from school. She doesn't have to face the reality of the situation if you continue to do it. If you think she will be angry then have the principal tell mom that a PARENT needs to pick him up so they can speak before he leaves.

You are not going to be able to offer any "advice" to this Mother that she hasn't already heard from the school...from the counselors, the principal..etc etc. Save your breath, and it wouldnt matter how "kindly" you told her, it would still not be accepted in a friendly matter.
My question for you is...WHY would you allow your children to play with someone that you KNOW is teaching them bad habits, leading them to do things that are harmful if not dangerous? I would simply start distancing my children from this young man...surely there are other more well adjusted friends that your children can spend time with? As one of the other Mamas already suggested...make this an adults only relationship...if you are friends with the Mom...then the two of you get together for adult conversation...sounds like she could probably use a break from her son!! lol

In my experience, people who don't feel like disciplining their kids WILL NOT DO IT no matter what they read or who explains to them that they can.

The only thing that may help is disciplining your kids more right in front of your friend in a consistent non angry manner with no blame or attention given to the friend or her kid. Really, the fact that they are following him and copying bad things can be improved, and she may learn from your example, or at least feel bad when you're not blaming her or her son, but your kids are having consequences for their actions.

I have several friends who do not discipline their unruly kids, and when we spend lots of time together, they eventually step up and start handling their kids more when it's painfully OBVIOUS my kids are following their lead and I'm still not slacking. It also helps that I'm not telling them what to do in any way or letting my kids blame anyone. Somehow that shows the lesson better. I just say, "Just because someone else does something, doesn't mean you can" and boom, I calmly enforce. If my friend apologizes, I lightly say, "That's OK, it's good for them to learn".

Not only do I show how to handle it, but the friend sees that my kids actually do stop doing the stuff that way and their kids are the only ones left being bad.

You cant tell her anything, it would not go over well unless you are ready to end your friendship with her as you know it.
It's a good learning tool for your kids tho, you need to teach them to stop being followers and start being leaders.
Since your friends son is an "only" his self esteem is probably pretty huge and that's why he's bold. Your kids are encouraging him by being his participating audience.
Yours need to stand up for themselves and say "I'm not putting vaseline in the sink or digging up plants".

My advice is stop giving her advice. She unfortunately needs to figure this out herself. As for you, you can limit the amount of time that your kids spend with her child. Give them strict instructions and consequences if they do any of the things that you mentioned....vasoline down the sink?? I would nip this in the bud now and not allow them to play at all until they all stop this behavior. It may make things hard for awhile, but in the long run-its worth it.

M

You can't tell her how to change her parenting. All you can do is to set firm boundaries when her son is at your house and enjoy this great happy child. Some of us are a little slower when it comes to learning good parenting skills. I'll admit to being way behind when my girls were little, yet I thought I was doing all the right things and nobody could have convinced me differently. Your friend's son's behavior may have to get worse before your friend is ready to adjust her parenting style. Some of us just need a few more laps around the block before we "get it". Be patient and try not to judge your friend. Because if her son is happy and well-adjusted at your house, she will see the difference. And if you love and don't judge her, she'll feel safe asking for and taking your advice.

I guess since you have to spend lots of time with this boy, and your children will continue to go to his house, it's up to you to be on top of them. You need to be constantly on the watch. I can't imagine there was a whole lot of supervision or participation of an adult when they were shoving vaseline down a sink. They all need to be in full view of you at all times, this doesn't have to be a punishment to any of you though. They can help you with laundry, they can put clean dishes away from the dishwasher, they can clear off and set the table for meals, they can sweep and vaccuum, and then you can all sit down and play a game together - work on a giant puzzle, put your feet together and roll a ball back and forth, get out some playdoh, play chutes and ladders, make paper airplanes and fly them in the back yard together...
Keep those little hands and minds busy, yes, even when they are at the neighbors house! If she won't supervise them, you need to. Your kids will catch on quickly, and maybe then you can back off a bit and let them take the lead on suggesting appropriate activities.
I watch two boys (6 and 2yr old) who are brothers five days a week, and they started off as yellers and spoke very rudely to each other and my kids. I explained to my son (after they had gone home) that their parents hadn't taught them how to be kind with their words, and if we were continually kind to them they would hear what it sounded like and how they could talk too. I gave gentle reminders to the boys to use "kind voices and words" and gave them the words to use. The moment their mom would come pick them up they were screaming at each other again, and I mean screaming at the top of their lungs - her response was to ignore them until they were driving her crazy, and then drag them out to the car to go home as soon as possible. Within a month I didn't need to give the words anymore, just a reminder. Now they both use quiet voices and kind words 90% of the time, and I can leave them to play in the backyard without worrying about what is being said while I cook dinner.
I have also tried giving this mom kind suggestions when she would complain about the older brother screaming and even hitting the younger (this NEVER happened at my house, I think he picked up on the vibe that this is just not acceptable from day one). Nothing I've said has made any impact at all. Both parents also complain that their kids are up until 11pm (even on school nights) because the kids say it's not bedtime yet... Along with only getting a bath about once a week also because they say they don't want a bath when it's suggested. So it's another example of the kids ruling the roost. My house is super kid friendly, with toys, art, and make believe stations set up all over, but I still have boundaries and rules and expectations. I think some parents just haven't found the difference, and it clearly shows in their children's behavior.
Since you HAVE found the distinction, you have to use it, and be the directing adult in this relationship, since your friend can't.

You can't give advice unless anyone asks you for it and even then they might reject anything you have to say.
Distance yourself from her.
She's got to realize she has a problem (and she might never) and then she's got to effectively work on a solution (and she might never do that either).
She's not going to thank you for anything you've got to say, she'll start blaming you for her troubles and she could be in denial for years.

I don't think you can say anything without harming the relationship.

Just keep modeling correct behavior for your own kids and for him when he is at your house.

Well it sounds like you need to lay down ground rules and write them out. Make them general for the kids - not like you are singling him out. Try to cover general behavior or mischief items that they have done together in the past and write down what the consequenses will be stressing for all children involved in the misbehavior. Then show it to the other mother and if she thinks it is your children she will agree and then sit the children down and explain it to them. Then try to post it in clear childlike wording somewhere. My guess is your children will immediately stop the behaviors and you will be left with just redirecting the behavior of the friends child. Another suggestion would be to hide a video camera and get enough recorded to show the other mother the difference in her child's behavior when she is around. Many people have a very one sided view and but when faced with evidence can begin to accept another possibility.

A controversy is raging about whether (or when and how) you should discipline someone else’s child. This issue is divisive because it is more complex than meets the eye. The factors involved include parents’ differing perspectives on:

1. parenting (risk-averse or laissez-faire),
2. what constitutes acceptable and unacceptable behavior in a child,
3. what methods of behavior redirection are acceptable, and
4. whether a child is the sole responsibility of his/her parents or if it truly takes a village to raise a child.

Let’s address each of those factors individually.

1. Some parents are risk averse. They are uncomfortable taking chances with their kids, so they inform their kids of acceptable behavior and consistently reinforce those boundaries at each opportunity provided. Their goal is to ensure that they raise kids who adhere to the expectations that the parents believe will help their kids survive and thrive. On the other hand, some parents are laissez-faire. They believe that there are times when kids need to learn by trial and error. Laissez-faire parents’ goal is to make sure they raise kids who adhere to wise parental expectations . . . while also allowing their kids occasional free choice to do otherwise and experience the negative outcomes. If a risk averse parent redirects the behavior of a child of a laissez-faire parent, the laissez-faire parent may see that as critical or controlling behavior on the part of the risk averse parent.

2. Some parents think that kids should not disagree with their parents. Some parents think that constructive disagreement is a healthy exchange of ideas. Some parents allow their kids to put their feet on the coffee table; some parents find this behavior unacceptable. On these and a host of other topics, parents should be free to establish the boundaries for their own kids.

3. Some parents believe in calm, reasoned verbal redirections and time-outs. Other parents believe that parental direction need not be explained to kids but merely followed by kids . . . thus, when errant behaviors occur, reasoning is not needed as consequences are the persuasive tools. Still other parents support the use of spanking as an acceptable means of redirecting a child’s behavior. If a parent spanks a child of parents who don’t believe in spanking, the non-spanking parents will see that spanking as a personal violation of their child.

4. Some parents feel that they are solely responsible for their kids. Other parents believe that it literally takes a village to raise a child. At issue here is whether the collection of adults around the child share in the responsibility for shaping that child’s definition of what is ok and what is not ok. If an it-takes-a-village parent redirects the behavior of a child of sole-responsibility parents, the sole-responsibility parents will likely feel that their parental rights have been ignored or stolen from them. On the other hand, if an it-takes-a-village parent redirects the behavior of a child of another it-takes-a-village parent, the parent of the redirected child will likely experience gratitude for the help in keeping their child on the right path.

But what if a child is visiting your house, is in your car, or is otherwise in your care, or if there is an urgent safety issue at hand? If a child is in your care and is exhibiting behaviors that are unacceptable to you, it is best to calmly explain to that child what behaviors are expected while he/she is in your care. You have a right to reinforce the boundaries that you have chosen for your home/car/etc., even when those boundaries are different than the boundaries that a non-family member experiences in his/her own environment. In reinforcing your boundary, however, use the least redirective method possible to communicate what behavior you expect. If there is an urgent safety issue at hand, the least redirective method may not suit your goal: instead, the quickest redirective method may be needed if the risk is one of imminent harm.

Whatever choices you make on these issues, you will not be able to win the approval of all parents. This will remain a controversial subject with no clear-cut rights or wrongs. As parents, we navigate the shades of gray daily. We make our best decisions and then try to make our peace with the outcomes, whatever they may be. So it is with redirecting the kids of others as well. Make the best decision you can in the moment, knowing that you still may offend, and make your peace with your outcome because you did the best that you could.

Nannies4hire

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Do you ever spend time at her house and see him misbehavng and are you able to say, "Wow, he never did that at my house,, wonder why he thought he could at home".. when he is doing stuff he shouldnt at home, do you feel free enough to say, "oh thats not nice, dont do that to your moms plant" or "Thats not nice, you shouldnt be doing it".. If he knows he cant do this stuff at your house, and then you come to his house, maybe he will start to bring the good behavior with him. Maybe he will think you have the power to keep him in line at his place too. Would his M. take well to you suggesting to him, that he stop being naughty? I know when I visit my neighbor and my grand daughter is doing something she shouldnt, the other M. feels free enough to tell my grand daughter to stop, or not do whatever,, and it helps. When they come to my house, I am not at all offended if she corrects my grand daughter when she starts to whine, or takes a toy from her kids. I dont always see everything, and sometimes I just tune it out and the kid thinks she can get away with it. This M. from next door hears it and stops it even in front of me and I dont mind. I dont want this little girl to think she can act rotton in front of anyone, even if I am not the one to stop her. Kids need to listen and behave for eveyone, not just the one person who happens to have a way of keeping them in line. You must have something special you do to help him be good. Try using it at his house too and see if his M. thanks you.

the only thing you can do is teach your own kids-if their behavior worsens being around him-put a stop to it-you just cant tell ppl how to raise their kids-plain an simple.good luck