Frustrated! - Glendale,AZ

V.,
This sounds totally like a second child to me! My second does everything exactly opposite of my first, and it gets to me. I think she may be doing it partially to be "different" from her sister, who is perfectly obedient, neat, polite, etc. I was a middle child, and I realize now that I did the same thing just to be different. It also drove my mother crazy! I guess you are right, we do just have to appreciate their differences and try hard not to let them get to us.

Hang in there, sister! My 2-1/2 year old daughter is very similar in behavior. When I spoke to my mom about it, she told me that I was the same way as a young child (my brother was not -- apparently he was a cooperative little helper who loved having "Mommy time" ).
Of course I love my mom more than words can say -- and always have -- I guess when I was little I just didn't feel the need to always be at her skirt. And I know I caused my share of trouble!
Some kids are just more independent of spirit than most. And the fact that your son is comfortable being himself around you shows that he feels secure in your love.
I know it's hard... trust me. But I think all we can do as moms is hang in there and remember to appreciate the times when our independent little kiddos DO turn to us for comfort, companionship or those rare, elusive "just because" cuddles.
Good luck with the potty training, too -- I'm right there in the trenches with you, if that helps at all!!!

Think about it this way, if your first born had been independent, strong willed, self-directed (don't those all sounds like good qualities?) and then your second was clingy and dramatic...You probably wonder "Who is this kid?" about the 2nd. It's all about what you know and coming to terms with a new "normal" with each child that joins your family.

I have two pretty different boys. First was a cuddler, loved everyone, enjoyed being giving directions, took his time getting comfortable in new situations. The second had to learn to hug and hold hands. He is a leader. He tries new things easily and makes his own judgments. He can be stubborn over things that feel silly to us. This kid has literally stolen my heart and took off running with it whereas the first just melted my heart.

And pooh - Don't you worry about a loving scold. Who says a 2.5 year old doesn't want parents to provide guidance and who says a 2.5 year old isn't old enough to comprehend the emotions their parents display and the part they played in those emotions? They are very smart little people.

Dear V., Welcome to the world of raising boys. I am a SAHM of 4, yes 4 boys. And let me assure you that nothing is wrong with your son. In fact, everything you described sounds completely normal to me. My 2nd son was and still is the complete opposite of his big brother. He was TOTALLY independant and did not want me helping him with ANYTHING. His favorite thing to say to me was "I trying!"...which meant, BACK OFF, I DON'T WANT YOUR HELP! The same goes for #3 and #4 - they were totally different too. They are all completely UNIQUE. You CAN NOT judge how your 2nd son acts based on the way your 1st son acted at that age. There is something "special" about 2nd born children. I lovingly refer to it as 2nd born syndrome. They commonly behave in a way that just frustrates you to death because more than likely they are completely opposite of big brother or sister. Please keep in mind that kids, like everyone in this world, all have their own little quirks, we all have similar and different aspects - it is no different for siblings. What might work for your 1st born, may not work for your 2nd born - and vice-versa. Children are interesting creatures - they may look like they come from the same mold, but 9 times out of 10 they definitely don't act like it! I'm not kidding - all four of my boys could not be more different! I have had to learn to deal with them each as INDIVIDUALS. Your son is at a difficult age. Be patient. The fact that you recognize your challenges with him leads me to believe that you know him better than you think. Maybe deep down you are just wishing he were more like his big brother. While that sounds like it would make life easier for you, it certainly doesn't make life fair for him. I would recommend finding ways to express love to him in different ways. Don't force hugs or kisses. Maybe give him a high five, or blow him a kiss. Back off a little and allow him his personal space if it's what he wants. Don't take it personally! He is not behaving this way just to make you feel badly or frustrated - he's at an age that he doesn't really care how anyone else feels. Just be consistent with how you discipline him - that is the biggest key to success in parenting - CONSISTENCY. Continue praising him when you see him do positive things, but make sure you praise his actions, not him. It's important to separate the child from him actions - he's not just a "good boy" when he helps pick up toys or eats his veggies, so make sure you praise the action -- "Good job for helping pick up the toys!" or "Way to go! You ate your veggies!" You may already do this, but I just wanted to point that out as quite often I hear mom's saying "What a good boy for doing..." We don't want our kids to think that we think they're "good" only because of something they did. Now...as you know, potty training is a bear. He might just need a little more time or a little different approach to accomplishing this great task. Don't be so hard on him for not telling you. Just keep encouraging him to do better. Maybe make him a little chart that you can put a star on for when he goes potty or even tells you that he went - and he will get a special prize when he has so many stars. I could go on and on here because I've been in your shoes - but unfortunately I have a little 15 month tornado who is in need of a diaper change! Good luck with your little men! Don't be so hard on yourself - just keep doing what you're doing and be patient with your son. He's his own little person. Figure out what makes him tick and don't compare him to his brother anymore - you will feel so much better if you do. Keep up the good work and HAPPY MOTHERING! And remember..."A mother of boys works from SON up till SON down!"

I think he is just going through growing-pains... which encompasses emotions as well. Not just physical aspects.

Try helping him learn how to communicate, the "names" for feelings, that it is okay to feel grumpy but to tell you, tones of voice,

At this age, their "emotions" are developing as well... and they don't yet know how to manage it nor understand it, literally. They may not even know how they feel either. Thus, hot and cold reactions.

Try not scolding... though I know its hard. But have boundaries. Explaining what is "right" and "wrong." Acceptable and not. Manners.
Give him simple chores he can do... (not expecting him to do it "perfectly"), but the point being that he feel important and that he is "helping" and it makes people happy. Then praise him for just trying.

And, when he does something blatantly wrong or mean, on purpose... do not allow it. Take him away from the scene, or you take yourself away... say that is not allowed. Tell him he can "redo" his actions or tone of voice... give him a chance to "redo" it. Then wait. He may tantrum, but tell him to "redo" it. This teaches them OTHER ways of behaving. Or give him options.... "that was not nice. It was mean. How can you do it nicer?"

Kids sometimes act like this as well, because it gives them attention. Even though it is negative attention.
Does he perhaps feel in his brother's shadow? Maybe he gets frustrated, or feels something is unfair??? So he retaliates....

Teach him that he is a PART of the family.... and that you are all a "team." Kids need to learn that... to cooperate and help.

Plus he does not seem ready for potty training. He may be rebelling with the whole "expectations" upon him. He is DIFFERENT from his brother.
What works for one child, will not always work for the other.

My Daughter, sometimes acts up... but it is when she actually needs MORE OF ME. And just one on one with ME only. So I spend time with her... I have come to know her cues and needs. Then like a switch, she feels better. She just has to connect with me in different ways, than her brother. I just spend time with her, talking story and involving myself in her interests and what she wants to just vent about. And I don't spend time lecturing her or nagging her about anything at these moments. I just accept her. It makes her feel better.

Understand that he is not pushing you away... but that you are the closest one to him, so he takes it out on you... but actually he needs you just as much as he pushes you away. He just can't express it, properly yet.

All the best,
Susan

Relax, I can kinda understand. My 2.5 year old male child has many of the same traits. My husband keeps asking when our real child will come home. Find the positives in your son and let him know when you see them. "i'm proud you can pick up the blocks all by yourself" Lots of this will go a long ways. Definitely ask an expert to assess your child just to be sure it is normal. As a mom of four boys this seems normal. I have worked in a daycare with this age and this seems fairly typical. I also have a special ed. degree so that's why I suggest checking with a professional to see if there is something going on that isn't right. Parents as Teachers are free for this and can observe what is going on to let you know if this is typical or something more. I had an assessment for our child with a fellow early childhood special educator. She assured me I wasn't crazy or doing something wrong. We just have a very active and headstrong child who needs a lot of extra attention just not the cuddling, holding kind. Hang in there. ;)

I have a similar relationship with my 2 kids. My older kid is a lot like me. I get him-understand where he is coming from. We have a similar temprament and like similar things. I can reason and rationalize with him. He accepts "no" much more gracefully than my daughter. My daughter is just like her dad-super confident, very stubborn, and very headstrong. She knows what she wants and will challenge me until we are both riled up, or she will sneak around to get what she wants. I can't always relate to her and find I have less patience for her beacuse we but heads way more often. I feel bad because it seems like I treat my son better ( we don't argue nearly as much because he accepts my reasoning) My daughter and I argue a lot more because she challenges me more and will just push push push.

I don't know that I have a lot of advice, but just wanted you to know that you are not alone. I have found that if she and I do stuff together that she initiates, it helps strengthen our bond. It is hard to find the time, but it is important to do. I try to verbalize my positive thoughts about her (to her) to help balance out the arguements.

Do not compare the two to each other. It will destroy their relationship. They are different kids with different approaches to life.

As far as potty training, you will probably have some big control issues on your hands. Try hard to pretend you don't really care about it. Just talk about it in terms of what big boys do.

I am also wondering about Asperger Syndrome, or maybe a form of Autism? You didn't mention how verbal he is. Some kids just aren't cuddlers, so because your boys are complete opposites, it might just strike you as more abnormal than it is. The potty training isn't a huge surprise either, because boys tend to potty train later, and sometimes the younger kids just aren't interested in it. I would talk to your pediatrician about your concerns and see if he needs to get tested. If everything is fine, you'll have peace of mind, and if something comes up, you'll be better able to help him. Good luck! It's understandable that you are frustrated. I can tell you're a great mom.

Hi V.,
You sound like a great Mom to me too. The fact that you see an importance and are making it possible (I know some Moms don't have a choice) to spend as much time with your boys especially right now in the formative years is Awesome!!

But I too, tend to agree with Caryn and Becky. Because I have at least 3 close friends who's kids have some form of Autism and I worked as an Aide in Schools for 5 yrs. and a couple of time it was in a Special Day Class or even as a Personal Aide to a child who had needs. It sounds like he at least needs to be checked.

Because I am familiar with some of the signs because I have worked with and babysat my friends children and have learned a lot especially with my Girlfriends who have walked through this. My first thought even before reading what some of the other Mom's responses were was "sounds like it may be a form of autism". I say a form, because there are different kinds.

Anyway, this is not to alarm you but to empower you. What does your Pediatrician say? Proper communication with him is Vital! You can drop the ball by not mentioning things you think are not a concern or important. But many times they drop the ball by passing everything off as "normal" or possibly (which is the case many times) they are not willing to go the extra mile. You have nothing to lose to at least start asking the questions and possibly changing Pediatricians or getting a second opinion.

I feel that because of all of the controversy with vaccines and all that most Doctors are not even willing to even suggest autism when there are valid problems.

Finally, don't ever let anyone second guess your God given intuition! Something in you is telling you that there is a concern- that something is off- possibly not normal. You have nothing to lose but a lot to gain if your sense/intuitiveness is "right".

Yes, as Moms we can over react to things, worry too much about things, and yes, compare our second to our first child many times- heck! I did. But there are just some things that your right on the money with and are glad that you didn't pass it off.

Do you know how many Moms are out there who did exactly what a lot of these moms have suggested and now are regretting that they did not do something sooner. I am not saying that they are wrong but I am saying that we should never rule out to at least be sure and get them at least tested. It is a "Win", "Win" situation. If you find out nothing is wrong then "great" your with the rest of us, and will agree that sometimes our first and our second child can be vastly different! But if you do find out that there is a problem then "Thank God" you found out and can get the proper help and direction you need to truly help him.

I hope that I was able to help and that at least some of this made some sense.

Sincerely,
A.

My son is 3 1/2 and still potty training - sometimes it can take a while, even for boys!

With my son, I am trying to work hard on obedience issues. I find that if I let things go, I get angry because the situation escalates, whereas if I deal with a discipline situation on a first-time basis, things stay calmer. Here are some books that I've found helpful:

Shepherding a Child's Heart
Have a New Child by Friday
Don't Make Me Count to Three
A Mom After God's Own Heart
Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours
Parenting With Love and Logic
Grace-Based Parenting

Also, children do switch between parents for their "favorites." That's normal; I just don't let my son be rude about it (as in "Go away, Daddy, I don't want you here" etc.).

Hi V.. Is it just you he acts that way with? Or is it other people, too? I don't want to freak you out, but some of what you describe (not wanting to be held, not connecting) sounds a bit like Asperger's syndrome. Chances are strong that it's not, but I just thought I'd throw that out there in case you might want to google it and see if it might make sense to have him evaluated.

Dear V.; I read Kaye's response and thought it was very thought provoking and right-on. That said, if you are having thoughts that your son isn't falling within the norm in some areas you can go to the Arizona Early Intervention Program:

https://app.azdes.gov/azeip/familyinfo.asp#referchild

and ask for an evaluation. If you have ANY concerns that your child needs some special help you should do this, as the earlier you get help the better the outcome. Follow your instincts!!!

D.

Is your son this disconnected with everyone as he is with you? Does he hug, sit with, play with other people such as your husband, grandparents, aunts, uncles, siblings? Does he interact and communicate with his peers? The reason I am asking is because the lack of contact and physical communication is one of the signs of somebody on the Autism Spectrum. Also, potty training tends to be later in children with Autism. A lot of children with Autism are quite smart and adept at figuring things out too, but it is the socialization and communication where they are lacking. My daughter is 7 years old and has Autism. She was not potty trained until she was 3 1/2. She was diagnosed with Autism at age 5. She is in a regular classroom at school but gets some extra help with certain areas from the resource room. She is one of the smartest kids in her class in spelling and reading and memorizes everything she sees. If she sees something done once, she is able to repeat it exactly with no problems. From your post it sounds like your son may have some of the same sort of issues my daughter had before we knew she had Autism. I would suggest you ask your pediatrician for a referral to the early intervention program or a phychologist who can diagnose disorders such as Autism. The program or a pcychologist can evaluate your son along with questioning and talking with you to determine what they think is the issue. They could determine there is no issue, one the other hand if they do determine there is a problem they can work with you to effectively treat the issue. The earlier a child gets intervention the better chances of them fitting into the mainstream with their peers. I know it is a scary thing to think that your child may be affected by Autism, but if you face it now you can help him learn how to deal with these issues appropriately. And you as a parent can come to understand why it is that your son is so different and what you can do to help. Your son will thank you for it!

I won't address you entire post, just one point you make: the scolding.
Scolding is just not an effective discipline tool for that age. All it does it stress you out even more and it probably runs right off his back...
Find a good and compassionate way to discipline him and be consistent. We do timeouts, but really it is up to you, as long as you are consistent.
I am sure his behavior will look better after a few weeks or months of consistency but even before that YOU will probably start feeling better if you do not constantly hear yourself scolding him. Good luck!