Forgiveness

You don't. You accept that they are who they are and move on. If you have to be around this person, then you be polite, no more, no less. I have this situation with my mother. We speak a few times per year, but that's it. It sucked to start, but once I accepted that she would not be the person I wanted her to be, I moved on. Sometimes that's the only level of forgiveness you'll get to.

This is the relationship I have with my two sisters, especially the older one. I have distanced myself except for a happy birthday, merry Christmas, and happy new year.

We both wronged each other verbally. We are both too big to apologize. We are both suffering.

My MIL and SIL are bat $hit crazy and beyond mean and spiteful to me. My MIL is narcissistic and SIL is Bipolar. I will never allow them the means to hurt me. These two women did irreparable damage to the relationship with my husband and child because of their actions. At first I expected them to see the error in their ways, but then I decided it wasn't worth wasting the energy. Do I ever expect my inlaws to say they are sorry? Never. Do I forgive them? Absolutely! Why? Because forgiveness sets YOU free! They will always have an excuse in their heads that makes what they do seem right. Even if you had the rest of the sane world on your side, it wouldn't change them. These people aren't sorry bc they are...well sorry. Set boundaries and keep away from toxic people.

The best therapist I ever had told me something really, really wise.

Forgiveness has nothing to do with the person who hurt you. Forgiveness is about you giving up the right to hurt someone or hold onto something that hurt you. Forgiveness is about giving up the expectation that something *else* should have happened instead.

Forgiveness is not about an apology. Forgiveness is about YOUR strength to not allow what someone else did dictate your emotions or feelings or behavior.

An apology is not important to me at all. Behavior is important to me. This is a tangent... but what's wrong in America is that we view love as an emotion. it should be a behavior. That someone "feels love" is irrelevant. Chris Brown probably really does LOVE Rhianna. I don't care. He needs to ACT in love.
An apology is just words. Amends are important. Amends are about changing your behavior or righting a wrong. THAT is love. That is friendship.

Whether or not you FEEL forgiveness has nothing to do with how you treat someone. But it's not about acting like nothing happened. It's about releasing YOUR hurt and anger about how someone else behaved.

Once you forgive this person you won't need to "act like everything is totally fine" because everything will BE totally fine. Because you will have changed your expectation.

You don't have to act like nothing happened. But as humans we treat other humans with respect....regardless of what *kind* of human they are. Should you go out with them? Socialize with them? Of course not.... not if their behavior hasn't changed. Not if they aren't responsible. But when you see them you make eye contact and you say hello. Because you are a civil, mature, human being and they don't dictate how you behave.

Best of luck in your journey to find peace within yourself that is not dependent on anyone else.

I think there is a big difference between forgiving someone and just letting something go.
I have a few people in my past that I will never truly forgive, for what they've done (and in fact, they deny it) but I let go of the anger and resentment a long time ago. Those feelings only hurt ME, so why hold onto them? I also cut those people out of my life. One person TOTALLY and the other I have a civil but distant relationship with.
So you don't need to "act like nothing happened" you can simply distance yourself going forward. If this person ever asks you "what's wrong" & "why aren't we closer" etc. just be honest. Let her know her actions have hurt you and you just prefer to move on. If she gets pissy and defensive that's HER problem, not yours.

Cowards can't apologize, because apologizing is uncomfortable and difficult. It's not uncommon for people with character too weak to apologize to ALSO be people with character so weak they are constantly doing hurtful, selfish things. And then expecting "pity" or "total acceptance of the behavior" when they utter excuses for it.

She isn't sorry. So there will never be any genuine apologies. This kind of friend is best left in the past.

As for people who DO apologize sincerely. Yes, it is extremely important and powerful and almost always succeeds in making the person who was affected feel better. And that type of person probably isn't doing bad things all the time either, because they have a conscience.

C.,

Sorry. This is not a "friend" - no matter how long you've known the person for and how much you care for the person - they are NOT a friend.

This is the type of person who will NEVER accept responsibility for their actions and it will always be someone else's fault....or worse yet...they are the victim because they are "reacting" to whatever it is they are dealt with....and it's drama.

There are people who have no moral compass.
There are people who will NEVER EVER accept responsibility for their actions.

What do you do? You ask yourself if you are better off with or without the person. If the answer is "with" - then you overlook this flaw. If the answer is "without", then cut ties and stop feeding the beast.

If she notices you are gone. Tell her the truth..."I FEEL you always have an excuse for your hurtful behavior. I can't deal with that. I've tried and it's not working. You hurt people and NEVER apologize. It's always an excuse and I deserve better in my life."

She will respond with "but I'm adjusting my meds" or "blah blah blah"...she will have to hit rock bottom before she realizes what she's lost in you as a friend. Don't look back. Say good-bye and be done with her.

She thinks she's justified in acting the way she does.
She will never feel sorry nor will she ever offer an apology.
Even if she ever asked out loud 'why does this always happen to me?' it would be a rhetorical question and looking for sympathy rather than a cause/fix and she'd be shocked if you responded with 'because you act like an a-hole and you bring it on yourself'.

You can't fix her or her attitude.
It's better to keep these people at arms length and just be very casual/occasional acquaintances with them.
With them, everything is always someone else s fault.
They are never responsible as they see it and they will never take responsibility.
I turned a proposal down from a guy like this.
I couldn't see living with that attitude for the rest of my life.

Forgiveness isn't for the person who offends/hurts you, it's for you.

Let it go. Let this friendship go. People who use excuses for their behavior are not going to be the friends you need in your life.

How important is an apology to me? Not much. Actions speak louder than words. People show you their true colors in their every day life. She's shown you hers. You recognize it. Now you need to figure out just how important this person is in your life. You said yourself you don't care anymore. Move on. Stop communicating or putting any energy into this relationship. It's toxic for you.

There is a difference in forgiving someone and trusting them with your personal well being. I agree, forgiving someone is letting go of the need for revenge or apologies. It's not easy and it takes some time. But if you meditate on what is good for you, what's going to be beneficial to your physical and emotional well being, then you will do it. You will not take the opportunity to get back at them. Your actions will be the deciding factor. You emotions will follow very slowly. Don't be hard on yourself for not automatically feeling very forgiving.

Then set boundaries, good book, Boundaries.
1. Don't set yourself up in their path.
2. Don't share personal information. Including on Facebook.
3. Evaluate your personal beliefs and morals and do not violate them for this person.
4. Do not involve yourself personally with their rescue. You might suggest a car repair place but don't volunteer to be a part of that plan.
5. Do not listen to their rants or gossip. Don't reflect their emotion, rage for rage, etc. often they are mining your emotions. They will go away if you refuse to give them what they are seeking.
6. Repeat this process. You are not a mental health professional and you can't be expected to act as one.

Been there, done that.

How important is this person to you? She doesn't sound like someone that you need to have a close relationship with -- even if she happens to be family.

Don't worry about an apology. You will probably never get a sincere one. Just maintain your own boundaries, and you will be less likely to be affected by this person's hurtful behavior. You can forgive this person when you are ready and understand how pathetic she is.

hate it when people do that. and yeah, and an insincere 'i'm sorry' because it's been insisted upon is no better.
i hate empty gestures. there's no way i'd try to maneuver this person into apologizing.
the key to dealing with this person is adjusting your OWN expectations to line up with the reality that this is not someone who understands personal responsibility. it's possibly they'll get it at some point, but it's not a certainty, nor is it your job to make them face up to their own inadequacies. if it's not someone whose presence in your life you can limit, then you need to learn some psychic shielding techniques so that their poor behavior doesn't hurt you.
khairete
S.

Why would you allow someone with no moral culpability to have such power? This is someone you should pity, if pity was something anyone should do.

One thing I love about my husband is that he says "everyone's life sucks, get over it already." He is absolutely right. If you want this person in your life, I would gently say such things to her.Things do happen, but what you do still matters. However, it's highly doubtful she will hear such thing.Silly example: i add 10 minutes onto need to leave time. This allows the baby to poop, the 4 year old to scream about his shoe, and the 6 year old to go looking for a book. We aren't always on time, but we are damn close. Things do happen, and thus you can plan for most of them (including death and taxes. they are inevitable, after all).

When it comes to people, sometimes the best course of action is to pass by.

As to forgiveness. I never require an apology by another. It has to do with me, not them. In fact, most wrongs are in your own head, they have nothing to do with you. It's you giving them power. In fact, forgive someone for not even seeing the need to forgive. You will feel an even greater surge of power than if they say "i'm sorry."

I also don't like to rent head space to assholes. I have learned to not expect culpability ( i do lecture my kids about responsibility daily. My 6 year old does things like spin around with something in her hand, she then hits someone and calls "accident." i tell her, no, you are responsible for all consequences, even those unseen or thought.)

In any case, let go. You will feel better.

If this kind of behavior is consistant over a period of time, this person will not change. This person is not a friend. This person is a user and abuser. Sounds narcissistic to me. Doesn't care about anyone else's feelings or issues, it's all about THEM.

It's time to pull away. Stop returning phone calls or spending time with this person. Find people who love you as you are and care about you.

I believe you already stated the solution. Whatever issues she is having or the circumstances in her life doesn't give her the license to behave badly. She won't apologize because in order to do so she would have to first take responsibility for her actions. It's so much easier to blame than to take responsibility.

There is a person dear to me that is like this. I have learned to say things like, wow, what are you going to do about that. Or wow, I hate that for you. You have to maintain a very surface relationship and view this person as incapable of healthy relationships. It's so much easier to recognize physical challenges versus mental ones. For instance if you saw a person who was paralyzed from the waist down you wouldn't expect them to get up and walk. You would know that's unreasonable. This person is unable to form healthy relationships so to expect her to behave like she is capable is unreasonable.

I am not a shallow relationship person. It took a lot of years to recognize that in order for me to be able to function with this person in my life I had to realize I would always have a surface relationship with her. Because we're related, and she will always be in my life, I had to adjust how much effect or power I let her have.

Blessings!
L.

Just move, on.

The thing is: "expectations" a person has upon another... is not going to happen. UNLESS it is realistic and doable.
This is not doable... your "friend" or whoever you are talking about, is NOT going to apologize, nor is capable and probably will never do so, and will not not not... do what you want as far as her apologizing and for everything she does.
So don't... expect it.
Don't expect... an apology.
It will not happen.
Move on.

The person you are talking about, is toxic or whatever. And "your" expectations of her/his behavior, is simply, not how they are.

And some people just NEVER believe nor understand, anything like an apology. They are, of a different... mentality. Not yours.
Why even fester about it.

You... want your friend to be a certain way.
She/he is NOT how you envision he/she should be.
But you can keep hoping that person will do and be and say as you think he/she should.
Or, you realize that not all people have the same courtesy as you.
Some people will never ever, be apologetic nor nice nor responsible for their own actions nor for the damage they do to others.
So you either stay hinged onto that person and dependent on them... or you unhinge yourself from their dynamic and don't make it your, issue.
So then you move on and don't associate with that person, or you keep doing so and keep being in their vicious cycle, knowingly.

And, even if this person apologizes to you... IS that, going to be enough??? Or will this person have to apologize to you, exactly as you think he/she should, and if not, it is not good enough and not valid for you?
I have known people, that EVEN if you apologize to them... it is NEVER ever, good enough. Because, it is not perfect enough for what THEY think an apology should be in their mind.
So then, people stop even apologizing to the recipient of the apology, because they don't ever, accept it because it is never, good enough nor executed good enough, for what they think, it should have been.
Vicious cycle.

Forgiving someone... is NOT contingent upon IF they apologize to you or not.
And, some people can never forgive anyone, EVEN if that person has apologized to them, a thousand times and meant it.

And if this person is mean, as you say, then YOU have the choice. Keep being around them, or not.
Being a PART of their toxic dynamic, or not.
Taking everything they do personally, or not.
Relying on that person to validate you or not.
Acknowledging this person is not your cup of tea, or not.
Choosing this person as someone you rely on or not.
Expecting them to do something that they will never do, or not.

And then, so if this person apologizes to you.
Then what?
She WILL go on and do other things that disagree with you and will NOT be the way you think she should be.
So then, EACH time you feel, she should apologize, is that going to ever be enough?
You want, that apology.
But if you get it, then what?
She will not change.
Some people will NEVER change and are not capable of being better and are not capable of even realizing they are icky. And they never will be, other than what they are.
So then what?
Is a thousand apologies, going to be enough?

You said this person has never acknowledged that her/his behavior is "wrong." Well, to you its wrong. And to others. But that person herself, does not EVEN know that. And has a million excuses for it. That is the way that person is.
Some people will NEVER realize, they are "wrong."

Don't let your expectation of an apology (that'll never come) dictate your feelings. If you want to make peace with the situation, you will have to simply forgive her. Of course, forgiving her and continuing to accept her behavior are two separate things. Forgive her (to yourself) and then distance yourself from her. And then forgive yourself for the guilt you'll feel for ending the relationship. You will feel some guilt (could I have done more? should I have stuck by her even though she's mean, etc?). Forgive her, forgive yourself, be polite when you see her but don't let her actions or words be meaningful in your life.

She is simply someone who always makes excuses. Never expect anything more from her. Hold her to the lowest standards - she deserves no higher.

I don't think you would believe her even if she did throw an "I'm sorry" out there, it sounds like it may be time to cut this friend loose.

Sometimes you just have to cut toxic people out of your life to preserve your own sanity. This type of person will never apologize or accept responsibility for their own actions. They will always be the victim. Expecting them to do something that is not inherit to their personality is like expecting a fish to climb a tree...simply not going to happen. If you cannot cut them out of your life entirely, you should just limit contact as much as possible...

I have a woman in my life like this. She is perpetually a victim. She approached me to let bygones be bygones. She wanted tools past the things that had happened between us. I apologized for the things she felt offended by, even though I felt she had largely caused the problems in the first place. She refused to apologize for anything she had done and refused to acknowledge any culpability - just made more excuses. I couldn't move past without at least an acknowledgement - so she is someone I avoid. I don't understand that self-centeredness. She has lost many friends that way - and it's never her fault. It's always the friends aren't good people. You can't change monster egos.

Updated

I have a woman in my life like this. She is perpetually a victim. She approached me to let bygones be bygones. She wanted tools past the things that had happened between us. I apologized for the things she felt offended by, even though I felt she had largely caused the problems in the first place. She refused to apologize for anything she had done and refused to acknowledge any culpability - just made more excuses. I couldn't move past without at least an acknowledgement - so she is someone I avoid. I don't understand that self-centeredness. She has lost many friends that way - and it's never her fault. It's always the friends aren't good people. You can't change monster egos.

Hmmmm...tough O..
It would depend on lots of things...
Relative or friend?
A relative you're ALWAYS going to see would be pretty tricky. Maybe gonna have to from and bear it but consider yourself wiser to them and don't be their doormat.
A LONG time very close friend, maybe you can kind of level with in a "you know, Jane, everyone is fighting some kind of battle, going through SOME type of stress or issue, but it seems like you've been doing a lot of apologizing lately but with some type of excuse....A simple heartfelt apology is enough for me...I know you've got a lot on your plate..." type of convo.
An acquaintance? Minimize exposure or cut out completely, because the thing about apologies us they should be followed with a change in word/deed/behavior. Life's too short!

I don't forgive people who don't seek my forgiveness. If someone repeatedly hurts me, I remove them from my life.

It's important to me only if I am looking to move on in relationship with that person. It's not very difficult for me to "cut" people and distance myself, even from relatives.

In my experience, I have let that person know my concerns and have apologized for the part that I have played in the madness. When I get no sense that that person feels any level of responsibility for what's happened, I immediately put distance between us. If I am asked why, I don't mind answering honestly.

When it comes to forgiveness, I try to see things from the other person's perspective. I try to tell myself that in those shoes under that set of circumstances with that blood running through my veins, I can see how this might look like a viable option. It tends to work for me. Sometimes my dialogue with myself might start like this: "Self, if I were an absolute loon who had no life...". That works very well.