Father Has Visitation with 2 Different Households.

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B.:

All I can say is get a damn good attorney. The Harris County Judicial System is not the greatest.

We have his mine and ours and yes it is very hard... but you are being selfish and need to rethink this. Your soon to be x, it is his choice.. not yours.. hey are all equally his children.... Sounds to me like you are the one that has the problem...Im sure you wish it was differenct... I wish my six were all mine or that we just had OURS but thats not how life is.... I know that it is hard but you need to look in the mirror. sorry to be so honest.. i do feel for you...

B.,

Your situation is SO sad. It is sad for you and your husband, but it is tragic for five innocent children.

I suppose the basic question that you are asking is how "safe" the situation would be if dad has all five children under his care, whenever the visitation is granted. At their young ages, it is hard to imagine that ANYONE would willingly sign up for that duty. In the situation you envision, I actually think that the proposed ratio of infant/small child (under 3-years)-to-adult would violate state childcare laws if this were a "for hire" child care service. I am sure that any judge will take these factors into consideration.

What astounds me about your situation is that WHATEVER differences you have with your husband, they certainly did not affect your and his procreation actions! I don't know about your circumstances, but it "seems" irresponsible for the two of you to have been engaged in non-stop baby-production, IF you don't intend to be responsible enough to care for the children's development. Development in human beings has four aspects: physical, mental (intellectual), emotional and spiritual. As parents, you are responsible to nurture ALL of these aspects of development in ALL of your children.

Even if you and your husband each believe that you are capable of independently providing for the children's development physically and mentally, it appears that both of you have emotional issues of your own. He is simply selfish to want ANY free weekends when he has five children that need his attention (plus, at least for a while longer, a wife that he should have been focused on loving, exclusively.) And you, B., are just establishing a predisposition for jealousy between your children and their half-brother. It is YOU who are saying "I don't think they want to share time with a daddy..." At 4-yrs. and under, they do not know WHAT they WANT to share until you TEACH them HOW to share, Consider this: if you were his ex- wife, you would want your 8-yr. old son to see his dad frequently. If your son was the 8 yr. old, and his father had gone on to make another family, it would not alleviate his needs and desires for his father's time and love.

You say that you have tried marriage counseling and it has not helped. I ask both you and your husband to HONESTLY answer the questions: "Do you WANT marriage counseling to make a difference?" and ""What does the future 'look like' down the road after we are divorced?" What if one or both of you remarry into relationships that have OTHER children? What if one or both of you go on to have more children of your own? Imagine the logistics of splitting time among all the deserving children then.

Before the two of you terminate this marriage, I challenge you to sit down together and (hopefully with a marriage counselor) discuss the "merits vs. losses" of ending this relationship. Be honest about your reasons for wanting to be apart -- because it is POSSIBLE for both of you to change IF you want to preserve the marriage you have. You have not even borne his last child and you are apparently both willing to quit. I am afraid that situations for you, your husband and for five innocent children may get a lot worse than the reasons that you "think" you want out, now.

The last thought that I leave with you is that if you and your husband have somehow by-passed your own spiritual development, then it is not possible to develop that aspect of your children. It is true that Jesus Christ is the ultimate, Wonderful Counselor. He can help you to resolve your differences. I hope you will ask Him to intervene in this marital crisis and help you both to work it out. I also hope that you and your children and your husband will get into a solid, Bible-based Christian church for (1) on-going support; (2) counseling; and most important (3) spiritual development. Once you give the ultimate Healer a chance to change your lives for the better, the issue of divorce and split-family time may become a non-issue. ALL THINGS can change and be made NEW, if you are willing.

Blessings,
K.

Isaiah 9:6 _ "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."

Exodus 15:26 - "And He said, "If you will give earnest heed to the voice of the LORD your God, and do what is right in His sight, and give ear to His commandments, and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have put on the Egyptians; for I, the LORD, am your healer."

Isaiah 48:6 - "You have heard; look at all this. And you, will you not declare it? I proclaim to you new things from this time, even hidden things which you have not known.

Revelation 21:5 - "And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new " And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."

B., my heart goes out to you that your marriage is in serious trouble. Have you called a church to go to a mariage enrichment retreat or other faith-based counseling? There is a non-denominational course/class called Divorce Care I would highly suggest for you and/or your husband to attend before you call it quits - with small children and one on the way, you will be dealing with your ex for the next several generations, married or not. Also, I'm not sure what your state laws are, but usually the courts will not grant a divorce until the baby is born.

In the meantime, while separated, regarding visitation, consider the best interest of the children. As long as you and your husband agree, the courts will not interfere. Remember, you are an adult and made these decisions freely and will survive - your children do not have any control over the situation, and will live with this forever and divorce could become a generational issue.

I hope you are not offended, as I speak from my heart and personal experience - having married the same man twice and having to leave both times. If there is any way to save your marriage, put your pride aside, give it your 110% effort and do the right thing.

What if you did 1 of your weekends joined with the half-brothers visitation and the other weekend without that way they can get 1 of the two weekends with their brother and 1 without and the half-brother would also get 1 weekend of one on one time with his dad? That way he still gets 1-2 free weekends a month as do you and he gets alone time with the kids from your marriage, alone time with the previous child, and a weekend when he has all of them together as a family.

B.:

It is only natural for an 8 year old child to be jealous of a younger sibling. Since you have one that is 4, this jealousy has probably been since then. His father needs to find a way to nurture his relationship with his oldest child, maybe spend a couple of hours one on one with him during the week one evening.

However, I have to disagree with your suggestion/request to have him have separate visitation with your children than the child from the ex-wife. And, I promise I am not trying to be rude or judgemental, but I am going to be frank with you. Truth of the matter is that his oldest son IS always going to be a sibling to your children, whether you like it or not. His jealousy may have stemmed from not ever being made to feel part of yours and your husband's family. Blending a family is HARD. I know first hand. It is HARDER than having your own family with four small children.

Unfortunately, it's human nature for us to all want everything to go our way. If you thought marriage was about sacrifice and comprimise, just WAIT until you experience divorce. However, you need to be reasonable in your expectations of him and what you commit to yourself.

For instance, it's a HIGH request for him to spend a few hours a day with the children FOUR days a week. This also puts him in a place to encounter YOU those four days. This is not fair to either one of you. Also, YOU are going to want to move on one day (whether you think so or not right now), so if you set the standard of allowing him to be with the children practically every day, then when you move on, you are going to have to have one heck of a new man that's willing to share his evening with your ex practically every day. Don't lock yourself into maintaining a "relationship" that you may have to end later and cause the children further pain.

And, you want your children to be happy and enjoy their time with their dad. One thing that has to be remembered is that just as you need to have time to yourself, so does dad. If he is not happy, they aren't going to enjoy what time they do have with him so it will be pointless. You cannot expect him to never have a life or never have the opportunity to be happy again. And, you aren't going to like that he gets a babysitter when your kids are with him so he can go on a date or what have you. So, you cannot have it both ways. It's admirable for you to want for your children to have as much time with their dad as they can get. However, in the state of Texas, when two parties cannot agree on a possession order, then Standard Possession Order applies. Your kids need to bond with their older brother. So, they SHOULD be with their dad on the same weekends as him.

That's my opinion......hope I haven't offended you as it was not my intent.....

Good Luck.....

My heart BREAKS for you and your children! You are in a very hard place right now! As the other poster/s have mentioned, I will be praying for you!

For the sake of time, I have pasted/copied from another one of my posts from several days back. (down below) Although your situation is very different, I still believe that you need support and this AMAZING resource that will help you stabilize and get some very certain rubber meets the road help/answers. I would encourage you to go to the link for the forum ASAP. Even post if you feel comfortable after taking alittle self guided tour. I could go on and on about how much they have helped women get their voice (and SANITY!) back. It totally blows away the isolation that we wives (even "ex" wives!) feel.

******Tue. Apr. 14, 2009

Your ? is one of the main reasons that I joined mammasource! I am so glad that you asked! This info is UNLIKE ANYTHING you have EVER gotten your hands on! It has totally ROCKED our world and SAVED my sanity (as well as our marriage!)We have been to two of their Marriage Intensives and involved in their Thurs. night calls for about two years! You need to order both of their books and start the process. (e-book is available if you are in a hurry! :-)I promise you, it is NOT your normal "wives, submit message!" I would be honored to anwser any other questions if you get stuck! ###-###-####)

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Here's their link to their forum for "right now" help:
http://www.joelandkathy.com/boards/index.php?sid=016ecb47...

PLEASE Believe me when I say that I am NOT trying to "save" your marriage. ALL that I'm concerned about right now, is your wounded heart and your sanity!

In HIS Grip,
C. S.

P.S. No, I am NOT crazy for giving out my cell number here. I WILL make no profit from the book sells either. I just care and I am determined to reach out in a way that I wish I would have had when I was at my lowest time! If someone else has a question or feels they would benefit from calling me... you are very welcome to. :-)

I must say that I have been through a divorce with three children, and I have also seen divorces where there are seperate households. If your husband wants to have the kids on the same days as his other child the judge is going to side with him on this one. I understand your hesitation and fear, but just keep in mind that in order for your kids to have a relationship with their father and their half brother this is a very important thing. Also, being as I have already went through a divorce with three children, and they were about the same ages as yours are now, I just wanted to say that they will go to the standard order first, and then things will be modified as you and your husband agree on them. They usually want to get the patterns set now to the way they will need to be once they are in school, and especially since one of your children is getting close to that age. I am truly sorry you are going through this and I understand how hard it is to let go of the children, but it's important that they be able to spend time with the other side of their family as well as yours. Do not cheat them out of their time with their half brother and their father. I will say that at the age of 8 it is only natural that the half brother have some anger issues and feel left out some with his father, however, once they are all on the same schedule that might change some. It is possible the reason the other child is feeling that way is because your children get to spend everyday with daddy right now, and he does not. Good luck and keep your head up. Those children will be fine. Keep the lines of communication open with their dad and everything will run much smoother. I also would like to say that the overnight visits are pretty standard no matter what age your child is, so just be prepared for that.

B., I have a friend that has moved to Oregon but keep in touch with at least twice a week that was in somewhat the same situation as you. Her little boy was born when she and her husband divorced and she has a little one (1 yrs old) at home. Because the children were so young, the judge stated it would be too traumatic for the kids to go back and fourth and it would be up to the discretion of the mother if she would permit visitation rights up until the children were at least 5 years old. He got married very shortly after and she had children of her own and my friend didnt think it was wise for the kids to have to be subjected to such a change at such a short amount of time. Well, unfortunately he decided to completely remove himself out of their lives but those boys have been raised in such a happy home that now that they are getting older and almost 5 and 6 years old they are healthy and happy and she is still open to allowing visitation rights but since its been so long they dont even remember him since they were so young.

My suggestion to you is a little difficult if you both dont get along but when my kids were small and I divorced my ex I made it a point to swallow my pride and make it a family event and go someplace together so the kids could feel some sort of normalcy. As I have always said...we divorced each other, we didnt divorce the kids. I did this for many years and now that they are older 16 and 12 its up to them how they choose to have a relationship with their father. I just made sure they had the opportunity to still love us both but when they were young they still wanted mommy and daddy and it wasnt fair for me to force them to go with either just me or just him. I hope this somewhat helps.

I think that a judge will agree to pretty much anything that you two agree to . . .

My suggestion is that you "split the differnce" between your idea and the fathers . . .

One week end with all the kids, One weekend with your kids, and one weekend with his son, and one (or two?) weekends off. . then a couple of hours a day during the week (I guess that would be based on his/your work availability).

That gives him some weekend time alone, some weekend time with your kids, some with his son and some for them to all share Dad.

It's a suggestion.

Also, ask the judge to revisit/re-confirm the arrangements in 6 months to a year . . . that way if you don't think it is working, you can say so without bringing up a whole new case.

Dear B.

Let divorce be you LAST resort. Please do everything you can to make your marriage work at least for the sake of your beautiful children. Very kid deserves to have a stable family and as parents a stable and supportive family is best that we can provide. Sometimes life becomes overwhelming with responsibilities and lot of things change like time spend together with spouse, getting more frustrated, feeling you are all alone and lots of things seem different from the once carefree days that we all had and enjoyed before and after marriage. But remember, as life moves on, things will soon improve, and for all that you know the tensions and frustrations that you are going through now will all be bygone days. So please work it out...after all he is the man you love and sometimes by giving into what a man wants, you are not showing your weakness but rather you strength and willingness to compromise.

Wish you all the best

I hope that I can express myself properly here...Although I have not experienced going through a divorce myself, and can only imagine what you must be going through. However I am a child of divorced parents. I wanted to point something out while you go through the sorting out of visitation. As the mother of your 3 soon to be 4 children please keep in mind, he certainly is going to be overwhelmed when suddenly he is handling his children ALONE during his visitations. Your ex may have the best intentions, and could be a very hands on loving dad. BUT through my own experience and talking to dozens of my adult friends..often when overwhelmed the dad's tend to withdraw. Example, not following through on visitation commitments. Your soon to be Ex may be a wonderful and devoted father, and have the best intentions. I am only asking that YOU consider his wishes when initially agreeing to the terms of your divorce, for the sake of your children. If he choses to have ALL of his children at the same time, let him worry about the complications that may result. If the visits don't go well as initially planned, be willing to work with him. I don't mean to sound like I am telling you cater to his wishes. Just keep in mind.. dad's aren't mom's :-)
I hope this makes some sort of sense!!! I just don't want your children to experience what I (and so many others) have. And that is a father that got overwhelmed and as a result is not truly involved with his children.
Best Wishes to you and your family,
H

I really don't have a lot of advice for you, but I did want to write to say that Lisa was completely out of line with her comment. It was rude, inconsiderate, uncalled for, and not helpful. You have true concerns and I truly feel for you and I hate how people feel that they need to be rude and non helpful on here. Please don't let anything she said upset you, she has issues and that is her problem not yours.
Now for the topic. I would assume that anything that you and your ex agree to would be allowed by the judge, so I would try to agree on something before hand. I would think that it would be best to have at least one weekend overlapping with his other child. That way he does not have every weekend with kids, all the kids get to be together at some point, and all of them get time separate with him. I think that it is important that the kids get together, because they are related and that is important for them to all have a relationship together. I can only imagine how tough it is on his 8 year old to share his daddy, but it is the same with any sibling and he needs to get used to it.
I wish I could help a little more, but I have never been in your situations. I do hope that you and your ex remain friends or at least have a decent relationship for the kid's sake. My parents still care for each other and have a good relationship, that made it much easier growing up with a split family.
Good luck and I will keep you in my prayers.

God bless you. What a load you have. I'll often think of you when I want to complain how hard it is with my two and a husband that helps. You'll be in my prayers.

As far as custody goes, be as amenable as you can. As much time as they can spend with their dad, the better. I really like the "split" idea as recommended by other responses. I hate to say "cater" to your ex, but I would surely like to see them spend as much quality time as they can together. Flexibility is what will allow that. The Judge will appreciate your efforts on behalf of what's in the best interest of the children as well.

Good luck to you, and you'll be in my heart and prayers!!!

I have been down your road but my X and I had the standard first, third and fifth weekend and Wed. visits. Since your children aren't old enough to hae a say, I would think the judge would go along with whatever agreement you and your x comes up with. If you guys can't come to a mutual decision, then I would think that's when the judge would set visitation.

My heart goes out to you having to deal with a divorce and pregnant!

Good luck!

In the state of Texas, you can not file for a divorce if you are pregnant. (I was divorced less than a year ago.) Also, I noticed that many ppl are telling you not the shatter your children's lives. To try to work things out. Well my advice to you and to go your separate ways. If you two are not getting along, then you are going to stress yourself and the baby. Your kids are going to stress out because mom and dad are fighting all the time. It is better for the kids for you NOT to be together.

As far as the "half-brother". I've never understood why ppl use that term. My daughter has two SISTERS from her father. This could be why the "half-brother" is acting out against your children. He could feel as though he's the outsider. He's only HALF according to you. How would you feel??

Just be careful that you do not cause problems for your children in the future. You always have to think about what you do today, will shape their lives. I've always left it open for visitation. I never put requirements on it. My daughter is 10 now, and doesn't "hate" me because I kept her from her father and her sisters. She is angry with him for not coming around like he should.

I recommend going back to the counselor, or asking him/her to recommend another one just for this issue. There are so many variables to be considered here: child from another marriage, baby on the way, your children need some alone with dad time, etc. A less involved, less emotional party might be able to shed some light on this in a way that would benefit all of you.

My other thought is that parents don't really get to choose not to be parents on certain days. Saying that he doesn't want to have kids every weekend rubs me the wrong way. If you stayed together he would have kids every weekend... that's just being a family.

Perhaps he would agree to have them one weekend each month, then spend extra after work time with them through the week. There are many options when you think outside the box. That's where the counselor comes in handy.

Hi B.,

I just wanted to bring up a new perspective on your dilemma. Are your kids very easy-going? Do they adapt to new situations well?
I ask because you and your husband (soon ex) need to take that all into consideration- you are divorcing for yourselves, but you're working out visitation for the KIDS' benefit, right?
So, think about the weeks after divorce: someone moves out, new house or apartment, possibly new people in his life and yours. Your 4 year old will be starting school in a year, and you will still have three babies at home.
Those are FAST, HUGE changes for children so young. You and your man really need to try and keep a steady, safe, comfortable routine going for these kids, to help them through this period of intense changes. Double that warning if your babes are fussy or don't like changes in their routine already.
I do agree with points many other posters have made. Above all, get yourself a great counselor that you feel comfortable with and can talk to whenever you need to vent or ask questions. You need a rock right now and for the foreseeable future.
Good luck with your situation. I know you'll try to do the best for your kids.

Work out your visitation before hand. It will probably boil down to what you soon to be EX wants, otherwise, the judge will go with the standard visitation set forth in the Texas Statues that is weekends 1,3 and 5 with a weekday visitation. Also taken into consideration will be the ages of your children and they are all very young with a newborn on the way. Child support is standard as well and it is X dollars per child from his NET income that is usually deducted by employer, sent to the AG's child support office in San Antonio to record that it was paid and then sent on to you. Child support for 4 kids is going take a big chunk out of his net pay. It may be as high as 30-35%. Time will tell but the other child will be taken into consideration first, since it is a prior divorce decree and THEN the judge will figure your child support. Good luck.

You can pretty much set up visitation however you want it if you and your husband can agree to it in mediation. For the ages of your children a judge most likely would not grant overnight visitation but if you would like them to you can choose to. You might want to start slow so that your husband gets used to having them. Maybe start one Saturday a month overnight and that way your ex will still have a weekend to himself and with just his other son. You also need your break so I think hours during the week as well. You can change it at any time or even give extra time without having to make changes. If you and your ex are on good terms then you after you have your first visitation schedule you can change it to match yalls schedule. I was always told that the visitation decree is something to fall back on when yall can't agree.
Good luck

I'm sorry for both you and your kids that you're going through this right now. As for the custody issue, I agree with the first poster that said split the difference. Let him have one weekend with all of them and another with just your kids. He should be agreeable to that since that will give him one weekend kid-free and maybe you just keep the baby with you at first until it is a few months old if he doesn't think he can handle all of them with a newborn too. Once the baby is about 6 months old, they should be fine being all together. I think you should do your best to work something out that is good for everyone so that this will be easier on all of you (as easy as a situation like this can be). A judge is likely to go along with your recommendation if it is worked out and agreed to ahead of time. Best of luck to you. This is a very difficult situation. I'll be praying for your family.

Hi B.,
Bless you- you are really going to have your hands full- I hope you have a strong support system and some help to get you thru this.
I would have my attorney draft the divorce visitation the way you would like- I would not allow the younger ones overnite visits until they were a litle older and could at least talk and communicate. I would want to be sure they were not neglected in any way- but you are right- letting the older one have his week ends with dad- and your children having their week ends with daddy- It is too bad that Daddy does not want kids every week end- but apparently this is the way it will be- I would not want my children to have to share daddy on their visits. Daddy will just have to bite the bullet and live in the situation for the sake of the children at least until they are all older and are a little more self sufficient. An occasional "together" week end would not be out of the question, but on a regular basis I would insist my children had all his attention when it was their time to visit.
Good luck and many blessings

Hi B.,
Before you go file for divorce maybe you should think about how your going to shadder your your kiddos lives and this going to impact them for the rest of their lives.They didn't ask to be put in this situation you and your husband have created.You 2 made vows and should keep those vows no matter how you see your life to be difficult right now.
The only thing you should be thinking about is the kids not how you disagree that your life isn't how you thought it should have been.If you decide to divorce think about how your children will be emotionally scared and act out as they get older and it'll be yalls fault if they grow up to be disfunctional adults.Most kids do from result of divorce parents.
You 2 should stick it out for the next 18 yrs. {your probably thinking shes crazy} till your children are out of the house.If you 2 learned to be polite to one another rather than looking at who is at fault maybe you 2 would want to live for one another rather than yourself or your needs.Your kids need to have both of you, they don't need the bouncing from house to house every other weekend.
There is a book called The Proper Care and Feeding Of Marrige by Dr. Laura Schlutzinger and she also has another one called The Proper Care And Feeding Of Husbands read those two books before you file and do whats in those books and if you do whats in those books you marrige will do a 360 turn.Give the one about marrige to him to read too. But put yalls selfish thoughts to aside and live for your children together and be kind and graceful to one another for their sake.
Im ONLY thinking of the children.As you should be.

I think he can ask the judge an specific days that he can have the kids. Judges now and days listen to both sides and are fair to both. I think that when he does have all the kids at the same time that he should get the oldest involved with the feeding and changing but at the same time make it fun and not like it is a chore. I feel that if the oldest is involved with raising and caring for his siblings he won't be jealous anymore. He will be more loving to them. I hope it works out.

B.,

First off, my sympathies and heart go out to you during this difficult time. Pregnancy is hard enough. I can't imagine what it's like for you right now. As far as the custody/visitation agreement....Before you go to court, discuss an arrangement with your ex that is agreeable for the BOTH of you. If the 2nd & 4th weekends works, or just one weekend a month, whatever, try to find something that you both are okay with. Once you have gotten that hammered out, put it in your divorce papers. Visitation is really up to the parties involved. The standard is used when nothing is set up previously, or the parties cannot come to some kind of agreement. The worse that will happen is the judge will kick the agreement out and set you guys up with the standard arrangement. Even if the judge goes the standard route, you & your ex can change it up as you need to.

I have a standard arrangement with my son's dad, and my oldest daughter's dad has the standard arrangement with supervision. My son lives with his dad 12 hrs away from me, so I see my son during the Christmas holiday, and he usually stays with me during the summer. My ex-husband has the standard visitation concerning our daughter, but he NEVER uses any of it. On the RARE occasion he sees her, it is because WE made arrangements while in our hometown to GO TO HIM! (I don't even wanna get started going down that avenue!!! LOL)

Anyways, my point is this....most judges will agree with whatever decisions you & your ex have come to. If the two of you are divorcing amicably, then all the judge is is a formality. He has to be there to sign the papers and make it all legal. Everything else can be worked out between the two of you, including child support. The judge will only change that if he feels the amount is too low and won't be enough to help you care for the children.

Hope this helps!!

I believe that as long as you are both in agreement and the judge agrees that there is no threat to the kids' wellbeing, you should be able to tailor your posession order. Standard Posession Orders (SPO's) are used when the 2 parents are not generally in agreement.

I may not be completely right but I think that's how it works. You may try registering with www.lawyers.com. They have message boards for all kinds of topics and many times you'll get advice f/ an actual attorney or at the least f/ someone who's been through your situation. I have a step-daughter and her mother is constantly trying to make things difficult where visitation is involved so I've used that site many times for advice.

Hope that helps you and I'm sorry that you're going through this! I can't imagine how hard it is, especially w/ a baby on the way. And it stinks that a father of 5 (almost) "doesn't want to have kids every weekend". Should've thought about that before he helped make them, huh? Best wishes to you and God bless!

L.