Everything Is a Battle!

I think it is just the personality, because I have twin 2 yr. olds who are both raised the same, and who share some of those problems. One of them cares where he sits to eat, and has to pick out what he eats, and what he wears himself. While the other one could care less about that stuff, but insists on choosing when he eats, and throws a fit about getting dressed.

my son was like this. If I said left, he'd say right. If I said up he'd say down. Everything was a battle with him. He would scream and stomp his feet and try to hit me. I learned that if I ignored him while he was throwing his tantrum, he would stop quicker than if I stood there trying to get him to stop. Tantrums love an audience. I also learned to pick my battles, and not back down once he was told to do something no matter how much he screamed. Now he hardly ever throws a fit about anything. I think it's just a stage that every child goes through at that age. Good Luck

I am going through it with my 23 month old son. I know they are different ages butmaybe this will help. I try to remember that what I want most is for him to learn that it isn't going to get him what he wants. He can ask for something by whining and I will tell him to ask nicely. He can cry for 20 minutes because he wants to "watch Thomas" (the train). I remind myself that if I give in I am just teaching him that crying works. Stay strong!
Good luck to all of us!
A.

S.,

I think you have been given some great advice about prevention, so I will give some for those times when prevention doesn't work.

Children do what works to get them what they want, and if your child knows that she will either get what she wants or bring you to your last nerve by screaming, she will.

She is certainly old enough to learn that the world doesn't revolve around her and that she can't command the universe. And actually, as much as children look like they want to run everything, they really don't. They are trying to see what you are made of, what you can stand up to and how strong you are. And if you cave to the tantrum of a 4 year old - how scary that is for her - she needs someone to take care of her who is strong enough not to cave to anything. That is a part of "testing the limits." They act like they want that power, but they really don't because it is too scary to handle.

I like the "love and logic" method. There is a book you can buy and some school districts offer parenting classes based on it. It is in there with the "tough love" philosophy. If she doesn't like what was fixed for her to eat, she doesn't eat. No battle, no forcing food, and definitely no separate meals or snacking later. Children will not starve themselves. Eventually she will eat.

And you and your husband are the head of the household, not her. She should not be "wearing the pants" in the family. If she tries to command where you go and what you do, she goes to her room with the door locked until she can show you a decent amount of respect. If you have to, strip her room so she doesn't destroy it when she is in there. She can earn back every piece of furniture, every toy, every picture on the wall.

When she does calm completely down - and recognize that for a while it could take hours or even overnight, so don't feel guilty - then you calmly talk to her about appropriate behavior and consequences. Then you reaffirm her, cuddle her, hold her. Make sure everything is good between you. But none of this can happen during a tantrum.

Some things kids outgrow with time, some get worse if they aren't taken care of. This falls in the latter category. She is just going to get bigger, smarter, stronger and have access to more as she gets older. Sure, she may not scream at the top of her lungs every minute because she will learn the hard way at school that it isn't socially appropriate, but that "my parents are doormats" mentality will stay. When she is a teenager you could very well have trouble that makes all this look like a walk in the park.

You will do your whole family a favor by being strong and setting some good solid boundaries and holding her to them. Don't feel guilty. Good parenting doesn't mean giving into everything and being popular. Good parenenting means you love them enough to do what is in their best interest and preparing them to be self-sufficient, independent, loving, unselfish adults who can handle life's difficulties and contribute to society.

Best of luck,
S.

Coming from experience, this is spoiling/personality/control. My youngest son was the same way. Basically, you have to choose your battles, and make comprimises.
Some ideas for getting dressed... Either she pick out the top or bottom, and you find something to match, or you pick out 3-4 outfits for her to choose from. For my son, most of his clothes pretty much went with everything else. Some better than others, so we made a comprimise that he can choose what he wears, but for special days (eg. picture day, christmas recital, etc.) I get to choose.
For the dinner table, maybe make name cards and each person gets to put the cards out on alternating days, or who ever's name comes out first, gets to sit where they want.
It's very difficult getting things done on time, but try making a schedule... Give her so much time to eat breakfast, at a certain time, designate certain times to eat and have her help make a menu. Explain to her that she doesn't always get her way, but sometimes she can. It's part of being a family.
No offense, I have boys and a girl, but you're right, your son went through this too, but girls are bossier and more persistant! It's our nature to want to be in control!
I am very wishy-washy when it comes to schedules, but it does help. You don't need to be a drill sargent, but some consistancy does make things go easier.
Reward her for positive behavior, like you did, we'll make cookies if you pick up the toys. Maybe you can use you're 13 yo for an example, if he's willing. Let her see you ask him to do something, and when he does it, do something special with him. Then ignore (I know, it's very difficult) her not so pleasant behavior.
Good Luck! It took a long time to get my son to understand, but it is well worth the fight!

I hear your pain. My son is the same way he is 5 years old now and wants things right now. He will not wait for anything and when he doesn't get his way it all starts with I hat you and screeming for a long time. I have found out that I was part of the problem because I would try to explain to him the problem. I now tell him to go to his room or physically take him there. I don't talk to him or acknowledge him at all when he is doing this type of thing. I don't talk to him I just take him to his room and close the door. He has stopped doing it as much because he knows it gets him no response from anyone. When he is done I tell him that type of behavor is not wanted in this house. I know he is a good boy and when he gets that upset he needs to tell me how he feels and not have a melt down. He now comes to me and tells me he is getting mad and we try to get to the root of the problem. Sometimes he just needs me to stop what I am doing and spend some fun time with him. I think they are just trying to see where they fit into the family and what they can and can not do at that age.

Also what has helped me with getting places on time. I tell him about 15 minutes before we go any where that he has to start getting ready to go. Then every 5 minutes I tell him to get ready to go. Then I start getting ready and tell him that I am leaving and he needs to get ready that he has had plenty of time to get ready. I start to get the car ready to go and take my other child out to the car. He knows that it is time now and he gets ready. That is what works for me. If I had not given him this time he really has a melt down. I just think some kids need time to prepare themselfs for a change.

Good luck with you child I hope I have helped some.

I am a 41 year old mother of two. A daughter that is 2 soon to be 3 and a 5 year old son. I am a nursing student full time and have been married to my husband for 10 great years. Like you he is my best friend.

I wrote an email very similar to yours not too long ago. My younger son turned 4 last November and he was a terror! I kept thinking, What happened to my sweet little boy??? He had his fair share of 30 min scream fests. Best advice I can offer with that is to IGNORE. I know it's hard, but it'll be for the best in the long run. Let her know her temper tantrum WILL NOT give her a different outcome. Turns out it was a combo of his age and a phase. It passed. I'm sure yours will too (and soon!) Hang in there, sweetie.

I am the mom of an adult dausghter and I remember well a time where she reigned with demands. I believe it is a stage BUT it is one where discipline is learned for later stages of life. There is a point in all our lives where we want the world to revolve around us and reality is that it doesn't. The earlier that lesson is learned the easier the lesson is. ANd the more likeable and lovable we become to others. I remember a tantrum in the produce aisle of the grocery store. My daughter dropped to the floor and kicked and screamed. I stepped over her and continued squeezing oranges. For 10 minutes in a public place she wailed. I quietly apologized to those around me and explained that I have to win this one. THey understood and even encouraged me to persevere. She never acted out again in a store. I even got an apology in the car on the way home. A childs job is to grow and testing limits is a part of growing. Parents are there to lovingly show limits. To sum it up- little children, little problems. Big children, BIG problems. Stick to your expectations providing your expectations are within reason for her age. The fact that you are concerned about this makes me think you are a great parent because you recognize that she needs to be reigned in. Many parents don't see that till its way out of control. Good luck and stay strong.

She is discovering her independence.

While it can be very challenging, it is important to help her embrace it where she can. Consistent discipline is important right now. Make sure she knows which consequences come with which actions/behaviors... and enforce the consequences when she has broken the rules. But give her the option to be herself (along with the rest of the family) when she can. Examples:

1) Give her the option to sit where she wants at the table 1 or two nights each week (tell her which nights they are, have a calendar nearby to help her visualize this)... rotate through the family members for each night of the week. (If you end up odd or even, give dad or mom the remaining day and alternate this as necessary).
2) Let her choose what she wants to wear... even if it doesn't match... at all! ;-) (As long as she is properly dressed for the weather.) If a certain occasion comes up (wedding, church, etc.), make sure she has options to choose from, and explain to her why she has to dress up nice that day... because it's a special occasion. But most of the time, just let her be herself... my sisters wore stuff that clashed all the time as I was growing up. Now they dress better than I do... it's was just a phase.
3) Give both kids the option of choosing what to incorporate in meals. Have a couple different options for each part of the meal (ie: drink, main course, appetiser/if any, vegetable/fruit, dessert), and let the both choose one of those parts of the meal... You could even let them help with the meals. At 4 years... she will soon be eager to help with "big people" things whenever she is allowed to do so. Allowing her to help, even if it takes longer or ends up messier will give her the confidence to know that she can do it if she tries, even if it's not perfect the first time.
4) Etc.... keep going with this theme for every area of struggle.
Best wishes... she will grow out of it. But you need to be sure to stand your ground and not let her rule you or your family!

i have a 5 year old son and you are right it is a control issue. When she was throwing her fit about doing the cookies did you let her do them as soon as she was done throwing her fit. I know that with our son we have always used the 1 2 3 magic and it works for him. I know how you feel and it is very frustrating. I also know with our son i just have always used the tactic that if you are going to continue to throw your fit then we will not do what I said we would do and just explained to him that if he wants to do certain things then certain things have to happen and if he wants to continue to thrown his fit then the consequence will be not getting to do the fun thing at all. Also i agree with the routine idea. You just have to figure out what works for your daughter. Every child is different. Hopefully this helped

My daughter was very involved in fighting with me for a lot of stuff when she was four. I remember always having to give her a time-out and I repeatedly reminded her, "Mommy is the boss. Not YOU. You are not the boss here. Go to your room." We just have to let them go through this phase while keeping our dignity. Good luck.

I wish I had something to tell you. Unfortunately, I am in the same situation as you. I am a 33 year old stay at home mom, and have been married for 10 years. My 11 year old son was a piece of cake to raise. My 4 year old sounds exactly like yours. I just thought you might want to know that you arent alone! I keep being told that this too shall pass. I sure hope they're right! Hang in there.

It's probably a combination of her temperament and her age. I highly recommend that you read Mary Kurcinka's book, "Power Struggles." It is one of the best parenting books I have ever read. She has also written an excellent book about raising your spirited child. My son was similar to your daughter when he was that age. How about taking an ECFE class about spirited kids? I also found those to be very valuable. Mary Kurckina also teaches classes in the Twin Cities if you live in the area.

S.,

I too have a four year old that I used to have that problem with, I noticed that my husband doesn't have these problems with him. After talking to him about it, my husband RARELY asks things twice, if they talk back or don't do what is asked, he stands in the corner. This doesn't happen much anymore because we have both been persistent with him. No argueing, no raising of the voice, it's corner time or do what is asked of you. It works rather well and although it is a lot easier to give in, if you are persistent, it will change. Trust me, I was at your stage pulling my hair out. A few weeks of consistency will make a great difference. Good luck!

You seem to have plenty of good advice here, but I want to give you explicit permission to put in ear plugs or whatever it takes to keep her from driving you insane! ;) As mentioned, you can't let her "win" with these tactics or they will never end, but you don't have to let her continually torture you, either. Teach her that you will take care of yourself too, so she will know it's okay for her to take care of herself when she grows up.

I have a 3 yr old daughter with the same reactions. I think it's her age, her stubborness, her wanting to do things her way. As soon as I ignore her "freak outs", as we call them around here, take away something she wants (the privelege of chewing gum for ex.) she stops and does what I ask her. I know, it is hard to ignore it and pretend it doesn't happen, but that is what works best for us. Good luck, you are not alone!!!!

I have found that if I give my daughter choices, things go better. For example, I pick out 2 outfits and give her a choice between the 2 of them. I give her the choice between snacks, cups, shampoo, whatever. Kids have so little control over things that if they are given control over little things that don't matter (to us at least), it makes the big things go over easier. I also give her the choice between cleaning her room and baking cookies or me cleaning up and not making cookies. Or whine and go to your room or stop whining and stay with me and have fun. Either way, she has made a choice...Not a fun choice but a choice nonetheless. It might not always work or even work at first but if you are consistent and she know that she will have control over stuff, she might be easier to work with....
Good luck!!

I have to say I can totally relate. I am a mom to a 4 year old and he has been doing the same thing. My problem is that my 2 year old is copying the behavior. i look forward to reading others advice on this. Just wanted to let you know you are not alone. My neighbor is also in the same boat. LOL. Her daughter just turned 5 and she is still doing this! YIKES.

I have an almost 3 year old who is a tantrum having child. But SHE HATES, I MEAN HATES time outs with a passion. Her time out is in her old crib. Her tantrums are lessening as a result. For example, this morning I was trying to comb her hair but she wanted to do anything but. So she went into her little antics of freaking out, throwing things, screaming no. The usual. So I scooped her up and said fine you're going to time out. Well she did a complete about face and was like no mommy no, I'm sorry, comby my hair! So I uneventfully combed her hair. Don't get me wrong she still has her time outs where she's just super bad and no amount of no mommy no I'll be good will make us not put her in there, but there aren't as many time outs as time passes. When we first started it she was in time out every hour with no blankie, juice, nothing. Just her in there to think about what she's done. It's usually about 10 minutes, and when we get her out she wants a hug and says sorry and she's calm.

When we are away from home the threat of time out scares her. I tell her we're going home right now to go to time out and she usually calms down some.I'm still working on the outside the home ones cause I can't always actually go home and put her in her crib. Ahhhh the comfort zone of home. Luckily my mom has a crib that we use there. Hang in there, things will get better.

i had this same thing with my 16yr old son when he ____@____.com mother told me to give my son a 5 min. time limit and stick to it. so you could say, "in 5 mins. we are going to bake cookies, so pick up your toys." then set the timer on the stove. this way the timer will go off and she will know that it should be done or bake cookies without her. you have to be persistant. Really this does work. i always praised my son when he completed something before the timer went off, this tends to help. the timer has helped with numerous issues with him. like, getting his shoes on, homework, chores ect.

the clothes issue, this can be a struggle :O)Have her pick her clothes out the night before. Only give her two choices. Ex. the pink outfit or the yellow? the main thing is that you are giving her a choice, it's just one that she makes, just you have already made it for her.

hope these help, adam still remembers the "timer" and laughs about it now. take care and good luck, michelli

Hi S., I just wanted to say that the best book I've ever read and was a turning point in our lives is Your Personality Tree by Florence Littauer. I can clearly see it's a personality issue with your daughter. She is a Choleric, Type A, Aggressive, the Lion...different books call it different names. Her personality functions on control, or "MY WAY" (the other 'ways' are the RIGHT WAY, the FUN WAY, and the PEACEFUL WAY). The book tells you how to guide a person to do something 'their' way without conflict. It tells about weaknesses and strengths of each of the 4 personality types and has truly helped us with our children, grandchildren and co workers, etc.

The second book which might be helpful to you is The Five Love Languages of Children by Gary Chapman & Ross Campbell, MD.

Good luck!

They say the terrible twos end at 3, but they dont go away. My now 8 yr old went thru that same phase, its basically a new push for independence but they still need you too. It is frustrating, and it will drive you crazy, but I promise it does get better AND they do start doing thing on their own with little to no asking!!!! There is hope at the end of the tunnel, so stay consistant and dont give in. AND I promise this will be it, until the terrible teenage years, where I hear tell that it starts all over again, temper tantrums, screaming, kicking, crying when they dont get their own way (well at least that was how my sister reacted ;) LOL) Good Luck!

www.loveandlogic.com My husband and I took a class that was given in our community, and our home has a new peace to it. Give it a try :)

You may have spoiled her and not really realizing that you were doing it too much. Or it very well could be just a stage, hopefully. But what ever it is, you have to nip in in the bud!! now!! I have 3 of my own. I don't have much paticents but working on it, because you have to let kids be kids, and you have to pick your battles with them. My son is 5 1/2, I don't think he went threw anything that extreme but did have a bad temper, which he still does but not near as bad. I also have two daughters who are 2 1/2 years and 8 1/2 months. My daughter going on 3, now, she can be over emotional, over dramatic, bossy, only does things if its her idea, otherwise she says "I can't" or "My tummy hurts". But she can be very motherly (loving), and helpful when she wants. She can be a very sweet little girl, specially outside the house!!! My youngest, she is still real laid back and nothing really bothers her, YET!!! lol
I would make sure she has time outs when needed. Do it the "Super Nanny" style. If she gets up, pick her up and put her back for the amount of minutes totalling up to her age. Take her special toys away when needed for a certain amount of time. Don't argue back when you don't have to. And the biggest thing, don't give in!!
She will probably always be high strong, but I am sure that if you really work with her now, she will get better!!!! Good luck

Do we have the same child?? My 4 year old has just recently become the exact same way! Right now she is in her room having a tantrum. All because I asked her to pick up her room with her sister (she's 7).

I know I keep recommending this book, and I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but honestly, check out "Raising Your Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka (she also has a website). She addresses exactly this type of problem - a spirited and persistent child with a mom who, quite possibly, is also spirited and persistent. It's a recipe for a massive explosion if you don't know how to head it off. The book is easy to read, and I recommend having a pencil handy - my book is all marked up with underlines, highlights, and my comments of "Holy Cow!! This is US!!!"

Be prepared, though... sometimes she says things that may go against your parenting style, like finding more ways to say "yes" to your child, and negotiating with him to find a mutually acceptable solution. I thought that was *insane* until I tried it... and it worked!

In the meantime, while you're reading the book, step back from the screaming match, take a breath, and try a new tack - make the battles into games... "I can pick up more than you can!"... "I can get my socks on before you do!"... or give her some of her own autonomy - "You must wear a long-sleeved shirt because it's cold out, but you can pick which shirt to wear", things like that.

Sometimes you can see the battle coming, and you need to back off. It's not admitting defeat (something that I had a *very* hard time processing), it's choosing your battles. You need to be on time to preschool, so does it *really* matter if she's wearing an orange shirt with a black skirt, if she has them on already? I know as well as anyone, that 'backing off' is extremely hard to do, especially when you get into the "I'm the MOMMY! *I* make the rules!!" mindset, but that's part of our very hard and very rewarding job.

And remember: "I'm pullin' for ya... we're all in this together." (Red Green, PBS TV)

First chosing your battles is an important thing. Second, give her choices and let her learn to make choices and learn the concenquences. Pick out two outfits and let her chose which one to wear. Give her a time limit on how long to pick up toys or you will do it, but she won't get them back for a week or 30 days, whichever makes the impact you want. "You have until the big hand is on the 6 to pick up the toys, then I will do it and they will go in the penelty box." I did that with my daughter and it only took a couple times before she started picking up.
Also, when my daughter would throw a tantrum, i found she cut them short when I walked away. She wanted my response, when she saw it didn't work, they stopped.

yes, some of it is her age. some of it is the fact the you must have given in to her whinning and demanding before. Alot of it is her search for independence and a search for limits.

My 4 year old has had some medical issues in the last year and everytime he comes home from the clinic (several days stay) or hospital he is much more whinny and demanding. Of course that is because the nurses and doctors will do what ever they can to get him to be happy, offer toys, gifts and foods.

What we must do when he is home is remind him that he has to earn his rewards. "pick up your clothes and then you can have a donut." and also not to tolerate the whinning. mostly if he whines we either ignore him or put him to bed (because you must be tired if you are whinning).

Fighting over everyday issues like getting dressed can be lessened in 2 ways. 1. Offer her choices. "you can wear this outfit or this outfit". Then she is a big girl and gets to choose for herself. The other way is to offer little rewards for good behavior. "You have to dress youself, but as soon as you are dressed, I can read you this story".

If she is ready you can do a reward chart with bigger rewards everyweek for good behavior. Don't worry if she is not ready for charts. Some kids have to see the carrot first.

Like you, I have an older child who has been pretty easy so far and a younger one who is clearly a more intense person (but he's only 2, so now I know what I have to lok forward to!). As a child care provider, I recently took a class based on the book "Transforming the Difficult Child," and it was wonderful. I've been using many of these strategies with my 2-year-old (and some of the children I watch), and I really see a difference. The idea of this approach is that "intense" children seek greater stimulation and responses from caregivers, and they often get them from misbehaving. So overreact like crazy when they listen, and provide minimal response when they misbehave, so they're getting the high emotional response they seek. 1-2-3 Magic is also a great book, and it's helped me a lot, but in terms of dealing with high-intensity kids (and it sounds like you have one), I love this approach. I think we're both a lot happier when I respond in this way.

I agree with structure and consistancy. Also the book 1 2 3 magic is a great discipline stratagey. It has helped my husband and I a ton. You can get the book anywhere or check it out of the library, they also have it on video or DVD.

HI-

I have a 4-year old son who is going through the same thing- calling it "boundary testing" makes it seem so manageable, and sometimes it feels like nothing could be less manageable. He can go from a fun, sweet, engaging child to screaming and almost unreachable in what feels like the blink of an eye. Upsetting for us and for him as well.

We're approaching this situation from the standpoint that his behavior is normal for his age.

Right now we're experimenting with how to handle the mood swings and the extremes of mood. I'm finding that keeping his days very scheduled, and very routinely scheduled helps. He KNOWS that clean-up happens before going to the park, he KNOWS that after park we have a snack, et cetera. Also, I'm making sure that there's a lot of large muscle work- easy to do now that the weather is finally improving.

He helps me walk the dog each morning (previously one of my Alone Time activities), a couple of hours later we go for a bike ride or a walk (his choice), a couple of hours after that we go to the park. Clean up time always comes before active time and a quiet time always follows the active time.

We're still having some challenges, but they feel so much more manageable than they did a week or so ago. If nothing else I've regained some of my perspective and am able to have more patience and humor in dealing with the tantrums when they do happen.

I'm not sure that this is much help- but know that you certainly aren't alone! I wish you luck!

M.

My 13 year old is going through the same stage.. again. Yes, they do calm down and then it comes back. I think some kids are just more emotional and need an outlet for their feelings that they can't understand. Have you used an egg-timer? Time it for whatever seems reasonable. You can even ask your daughter in one of her calmer moments what seems like a good amount of time to "cry" when she's upset? Then when you take her to her room, you two can set the timer together. I know that when my son was little, I just used to sit with him and let him scream. After a time limit, such as 5 or 10 minutes, then I try to do distraction with things he likes, even occasional bribery with a treat or something. A pediatrician once told me that the less time a kid cries the better off the adjustment is later. I didn't want him to feel alone or abandoned because of his anxiety and bad feelings. We've had him evaluated on numerous occasions for mood disorders and we've been told that he's just very sensitive and intense (spirited is a good word, too). But if you can make sure you don't get sucked in, you'll find that she might calm down faster. My husband often reacts to my son's fits and that just makes it worse. Stay calm and quiet. You can go out into the car later and scream your head off yourself. Kids can do that to ya~!

I know exactly how you feel, my son, who will be 4 in november does the same exact thing, and at wits end too....the only thing i do that seems to work sometimes is timeouts in the bedroom, with or without the tv...a little quiet time never hurt them.....i think sometimes he gets over stimulated and has a hard time coming down off of that....