My MIL has Narcisstic Personality Disorder and has been diagnosed with BiPolar/Manic Depressive. She won't take medicines or go to therapy. My FIL won't make her.
Does she know she is lying? Is there any way to deal with her if she won't get therapy? Would therapy and medicines even work?
Thank you for posting this. You just described someone I know, and live through the same situations you are describing. I didn't know there was a name for it.
I feel your pain as I am a Mental Health nurse. I personally believe people with NPD don't truley understand reality at times. This behavior is usually treated with EXTENSIVE therapy. BiPolar/Manic Depressive is of course treated with meds and they will have to take them for the rest of their lives. I wish I had better answers for you. Without meds and tharapy their behavior will just continue.
K.
http://www.LiveSmart-SaveBig.com
The short answer is that it doesn't really matter if she "knows" what's right because it will not impact how she acts. Meds would help the bipolar, and intense therapy could help the NPD, but personality disorders are nortoriously hard to treat.
I am so sorry that you are going through this, and I don't have a very good answer for you. Short of cutting her off completely, I think that you're just going to have to deal with it as best you can. There is no point in trying to reason with her and explain reality. It's like trying to explain over and over to someone in a wheelchair how to walk. You can talk until you're blue in the face, but that person won't walk.
As for your daughter, I would explain that some people's brains and bodies work differently than others. Some people use canes, some people are in wheelchairs, some people have a hard time learning, and some people have a hard time being nice to each other. Grandma does her best, but her brain just makes it so she has a very hard time telling the truth/being kind, etc. We can love her, but because of the way her brain works it's sometimes hard to be around her because she can be mean without meaning to.
Again, I'm sorry you're going through this. Try to stick it out in therapy with your husband because, while you can't change your MIL, you also can't let her destroy your marriage. Best of luck.
No. They do not understand reality. They believe their own lies. They live in their own reality.
I'm sorry for your situation. The less you have to deal with her, the better. You will NOT change her.
R. :(
Hi Kay,
You have my total sympathy and compassion. My sister is bipolar and I have a friend who has dealth with it, too. Here is what I can tell you with my experience. When my sister does totally irrational and impulsive things, they make total and complete sense to her. She understands HER reality. Whether it is real to you or not, it is completely real to her. She hears what she hears, sees what she sees, and perceives what she perceives. I could no more explain the situation to her then if I were trying to explain blue to a blind person. She still wouldn't see what I saw. Total waste of time. Medication can work for someone with bipolar, but the problem is that it's not just one medicine but a cocktail of meds. The cocktail is not the same for any two people and finding the right combination of mood levelers and then the meds to deal with the side affects of the mood levelers can take a really long time because it's a trial and error process and sometimes it gets worse before it gets better. Plus when someone that takes them feels better they can tend to treat it like anti-biotics, "I'm not sick anymore so I don't need these meds anymore" when it's the meds that are keeping them well. Then there's when the meds suddenly stop working like they used to and they are on the trial and error hunt again to find a new cocktail.
With the NPD it's really hard, because to get the intense therapy they have to want to change and that in itself is a pretty tall order. Why would they want to change? Nothing is wrong with them. They are just fine. Everyone else has the problem. Plus if everyone is enabling them to do what they are doing and there is only one person saying, "Back the truck up!!" then that person becomes her scapegoat and bad guy. Now not only is it not her, it's you! Her reality is that it IS ALL ABOUT HER. She is the center of the universe. She isn't empathetic. She can't see anyones point of view that doesn't put her directly in the middle. Talking is a waste of time.
Distance is the best thing in as much as you can do it. I love my sister, but I love her from here. We talk about once a year. It's all I can do, because then she pulls me into her insanity and I am sick right along with her. You stance needs to be from the perspective of what keeps you and your kids healthy. You need to explain to your husband that you aren't saying "no" to his M., but "yes" to your daughter and HER M.. The best thing you can do is take care of your child's parents (that's you and your husband). Maybe with this perspective you can come up with specific coping skills to deal with her. When she calls you to tell you someone elses info, immediately call that person so they can connect with you. Don't wait for moms permission and so on.
Hope this helps,
L.
Your mother-in-law has been diagnosed with a disease which is just as real as if she'd been diagnosed with diabetes. Just like a diabetic can't control her sugar levels without medication, neither can your mother-in-law control her behaviour without the correct medication. Also, just like diabetes - the levels of her meds need to be adjusted by a trained physician at regular intervals. She also needs counselling. You don't say how old your daughter is, but if she's old enough to have noticed her grandma is "different" she's old enough to be told that her grandma has a disease that makes her act inappropriately sometimes. DO NOT "try and reason with her"! It's as futile as telling a diabetic to control their pancreas better! Be as loving and supportive as you can be. Learn as much about the condition as possible and learn to AVOID everything that you know is a "trigger" for her. She's NOT stupid or stubborn - she has a medical condition. Many people in her condition are resistant to taking meds because of side-effects. The best way you can help her is by finding a psychiatrist that is knowledgeable about her condition and can also refer her to a Support Group. The best way to help YOUR FAMILY - is for you and your husband to regularly attend a Support Group for families of those affected by this disease and learn / share coping skills with each other. I know it's hard, but its nobody's "fault" and only trained professionals can help. Unfortunately this condition can't be "fixed" but it CAN AND MUST be "managed" as best you can. Believe me, it's tougher on her than it is on you!
There was a good thread on this just recently, and the answers may be really helpful to you:
They live in their own reality. Rejecting treatment is also common with this. It would be like me telling you, you have a huge wart on your nose that needs to be taken off, but when you look in the mirror you don't see anything. Now tell me, who's crazy? The only way to get her treatment (against her will) is to commit her stating she is dangerous to herself and others. While in short term treatment they will get her on a normal medication routine, and do the therapy for NPD. That doesn't mean when she is released she will continue the treatment plan long term.
My ex brother in law was bi-polar/manic. He was totally normal on his medication, you would never know anything was different about him. He would have bouts of paranoia and stop taking his meds. He's done some pretty crazy things, from stealing an ambulance and choking his mother with a phone cord...not once but twice (she didn't die the first time so he had to do it again, she didn't die the second time either).
Here's my take on this. Your wasting your time trying to explain reality. No one is saying you have to leave your kids alone with her, and you can also explain, when you feel your child is the appropriate age, why grandma is different. When you spend time around her, use your time trying to make things go smoothly for the visit, and have a set time of leaving. Make the visits few and far between and the phone calls short.
Oh and yes, setting boundaries does often provoke them, they feel like you are trying to control them. This is just something you are going to have to deal with if you want her in your life. I would also suggest seeing a therapist for yourself to get a better understanding of the actual disorders.
Just my opinions. Good Luck!
I think it's important to note that your MIL made a choice to reject treatment and therapy. She doesn't even want to try. She is an adult and she made a choice. Not everyone wants to get better. It's unfortunate, but you need to accept this.
As for her interference, don't let her. Not that you can call her on her actions, that obviously won't work. But you can work around her. Keep up your relationships and don't let her be in the middle.
Continue therapy with your husband, he might even need to go individually to realize that he can love his mother, without condoning her actions.
