Different Parenting-styles Doesn't Even Begin to Describe It....

I agree with the way you parent, however I don't think it will do any good to broach the subject with these moms. I have found that through the years (my boys are 8 and 14) I have gravitated towards other parents who parent more similarly to the way that I do. I found myself avoiding parents who don't discipline their children effectively. It gets easier as they get older.

A friend of mine started saying this to his kid, and I thought it was pretty clever, so I started saying it too! LOL

When the kids say how come their mom lets them do this, or they don't get it trouble for that, we say "because we love you more than their parents do!"

It always draws a smile or a giggle and then we move on.

Oh boy, my husband is a lot like this lady. He makes these big threats that he has no intention of following through with, and my kids see right through him. I would probably tell her straight up, "You know, Sue, I don't think Bobby believed that you would throw all his presents in the trash, but he probably would believe him if you told him he was going to have a 3 minute time-out." Making empty threats is SO incredible useless--parents who do so just waste their breath and diminish their authority in the eyes of their kids(I know, I am preaching to the choir).

Sometimes if a kid hurts one of my kids and the parent doesn't address it, I take it upon myself to do so. "Bobby, you hurt Jack. That was not kind and you need to apologize to him." Sometimes the parent jumps in and reiterates what I said, other times they just carry on, but at least they witnessed another adult address it.

I'd certainly say, "Johnny, in our house we do not slam into our friends and push them down. That was not nice. Please come apologize." Unless I was babysitting, I wouldn't put the kid in time out (Mom or Dad should). If the parents don't get the hint, then speak to them before the next event. If your child isn't benefiting from the interaction, then maybe see them only when you are all able to leave the kids home. I think that the trash comment was overboard. Don't say things you don't mean b/c the kid knows it's just talk. If they balk at leaving the kids home, say "Frankly, the children are not playing well together. X pushed my child and did not apologize. I think they need some time apart."

I feel exactly the same way you do! Sometimes I do step in and explain to the other child what they're doing wrong, but it does make things uncomfortable at times. "Pick your battles" is a favorite piece of advice I once received and it applies to disciplining your friends' kids too. Is it worth it? Sometimes it really is!

The other thing I've started doing is talking to my child about their own behavior when we leave a situation like this. I don't say "Oh, Jack was a little stinker when he ran into you!", but instead say something like "Thanks for playing nicely and calmly with your friends. I'm sorry sometimes they can get out of control, but they are still learning how to be nice. I was really proud of how well you acted today." Something like that, but maybe not so cheesy. Haha!

Good luck!

I'm a lot like you - we have rules, we follow them, when the rules aren't followed, consequences quickly follow each and every time. Seems simple enough, but there are a LOT of parents out there who just don't get it. My oldest child is 9, and one thing I've learned since she started preschool 7 years ago is that I really can't be friends with people who refuse to discipline their kids. I don't say this intending to be smug or saying that I know right for every child, it's just that honestly, people who don't discipline their kids tend to have bratty kids, and it's hard to have a good time around them. As you have observed, often times these children behave in a rude and even violent manner toward other kids, and to me, it's just not worth the headache and drama. So, I suggest to my children that they have well-behaved friends over for play dates. I do still have several good friends who have no disciplinary skills to speak of, but I just make sure to plan to see them when our kids aren't around. It's a bummer, but what can you do?

And people wonder why the current generation 'expects the world'...

I totally agree with you. The other mom should've done more. Me, I would've made him apologize and I would've followed through. My kids know this.

If I had been in your situation, I would've excused myself from the area and had my child play in a different area. If I was a kid's party (you don't really say), I would've taken my child and left. I have done that before from a family party. Where my husband and inlaws ended up mad at ME for doing it, and not the problem nephew or his parents.

I have a couple of "was a friend" people because of situations like this. I actually now choose to do a full circle converstion with my friends kids like I do with mine....whether they like it or no, I don't yell and I don't discipline but I have then explain to me what they did, why it was wrong and what they should do next time instead. Not one mom has yelled at me for doing this...some day I just hope that they as parents will catch on...I now have one very close friend who's son doesn't do any of the things he use to around me...still does it to his mom but in my house he wont :) So I know these kids have the potential to do good!

The empty threat, grr, one of my pet peeves for sure :(
All you can do is control what goes on in your own home, including telling someone else's child "we don't do that" in our house, and then enforcing a consequence.
As far as explaining this to your own kids? You'd be surprised how much they pick up on this. They KNOW these kids are brats and eventually they won't want to play with them. Really, I promise! Kids with clear boundaries don't like to play with kids with no sense of boundaries, it all works out in the end. It's happened for us more than once, and although it was a bit awkward at first I was ultimately glad the relationship ended.
In the meantime you just have to decide how much of these other moms and kids you can tolerate, and continue to seek out new friends whose values are more similar to yours :)

It will be hard to point this out to the parents although I'm sure eventually you'll blow up on one of them, but in explaining to my child (loudly) that the other child has done something naughty I think gets the point across. My son is 4 now and he vocalizes, frequently that people are doing rude things.

For example, I've ALWAYS taught him to thank people for holding the door for him and when he was holding the door for some people yesterday NOBODY said thank you and he said "they didn't say thank you mommy, that's rude." And I agreed with him, loudly, and in front of the person who didn't say thank you.

I think the only thing you can control at this point is your own child and if their raised right you can't go wrong. Your kids will be the one's pointing out how they've been wronged and hopefully these parents will pick up on the cues. I'd consider some new friends for my child to "learn" from though, you don't want your kids to think this is okay.

No, you're not alone! I just avoid parents who can't or won't control their children. I've had to say to mine before "two wrongs don't make a right" and then explain that to them, but there is no excuse for me continuing to put them in that situation.

I hear you. The problem with empty threats is that children learn that their parent will never follow through, hence, they learn to believe that there are no consequences for bad behavior. This becomes especially problematic in later years - like the teen years.

My poor son, I have never made a threat that I have not followed through on. He is almost 16 and knows when I get that tone and threaten to pack up every electronic in the house that I will damn well do it. LOL Used that one this weekend to get my overgrown lawn mowed - and used it loudly, in the middle of the front yard, with my neighbor standing right next to us. Yeah, surprised everyone. Lawn got mowed. Teen had an attitude adjustment. The weekend was lovely.

Anyhoo, when I ran across a parent who had a completely different style than mine I tried to, first, parent by example, so that, at least, our children could come together and play without incident. If that didn't work, I simply moved away from the relationship. The offshoot is that I wound up with a good network of moms in elementary school that shared my style and values and our kids remain friends.

Hi, E.R.:

Yes, we are in the entitlement age where "I can do anything I want because nobody can tell me what to do."

As Americans, we not only have rights, we have duties and responsibilities to God and our fellow man, such as:

The duty of children to honor and obey thei parents and elders.
The duty to support law and order and keep the peace.
The duty to be temperate.
The duty to maintain the integrity of the family structure.
and
The duty to suport personal and public standards of common decency.

The 5000 Year Leap: A Miracle That Changed the World by W.C. Skousen
Hope this helps.
D.

when things like this happen and the parent doesn't do anything about it. I step in no matter where Im at when it involves one of my kids.

I will get the other child, get down to their level, put my arm around them gently and lovingly and tell them that wasn't nice, you can't do that to your friends, you need to tell them sorry. Take their hand or call my child over ( usually they are right next to me anyways) and have them tell them they are sorry.

Lead by example and hopefully the parents will pick up on it. If they don't like that you did that they can come up with the excuse to leave. But I'm not going to sit back and let another child treat my child badly because of another parent not doing their job ( imo).

Honestly? I actually dumped a friend because she did the exact same thing - not parenting, empty threats, excuses, etc., & her 3 heathen boys would constantly rough up my one girl. There were other reasons for ending it, but our difference in parenting styles was a huge factor. I'm not saying our parenting styles had to be same, but I need friends that are active in their parenting & discipline. It wasn't fair to my daughter or me, to be stuck in that situation over & over again. She was not the type of person who would actually take well to being told her kids were awful, and very imbalanced, and she lost several friends because her kids were so terribly behaved.

In the end, you can't control how others parent their kids, and most parents don't want to hear their faults or that their kids are ill behaved. Life is too short, IMO.

Yes, I agree with you.

Nope, not a single thing you can do.

We ALL think we're god's gift to parenting in some aspect, so i doubt that society will change or determine one parenting philosophy superior in our lifetimes.

it's very hard to spend much time with people whose philosophy is very different from yours. i had this a LOT as most of our homeschooling friends were unschoolers, while we took a more structured (loose but still structured) approach to both academics and parenting. i think unschooling is wonderful and admire those who do it successfully, but it has a lot of potential to turn into 'anything goes', and often does.
i think you're on the mark with starting 'in our house......'
certainly one never wants to criticize someone else's method of coping (we all HATE it when someone does it to us!) yet we're the ones who must step in if our own kids are getting mowed under.
i disagree with the approach some have suggested of loudly making comments to our own kids so that the offenders can hear. passive-aggressive retorts are rarely a good answer. but there are things we can do. if it's a pretty good friend, honesty is the best policy. 'i'm concerned about my son being on the receiving end of rough play a little too often and i'd like us to come up with a way of handling it that we both can live with. what do you suggest if one of the kids (don't specify which one at this point!) hurts the other one?' if you're not quite that comfortable, you might try 'oh, excuse me! let me just step in over there! hey, Other Kid! look, you just knocked My Kid over and he's crying. we need to slow down and look where we're going, okay?' then if the behavior continues or the other mom is still in 'kids will be kids' mode, you will probably need to end or limit the playdates. but usually just one or two gentle interventions will take care of it.
i think it's okay if moms insist that their own kids apologize, but not to take a stand about whether or not other people's kids do. there are good reasons to be a little wary of the forced apology.
and you really can't do anything about the maddening empty threats either. i have friends and family who are notorious for this, to the point where sometimes i have to walk away or even leave an event early because it's making me nut up. but it's on me to do what i need to do for me. there is absolutely no way to broach that (unless it's solicited, and even then you've got to be REALLY careful) without risking the relationship. and if it's someone you don't know well and don't mind losing the relationship, you're still better off doing so without telling them how much they suck as parents, KWIM?
looking at the responses here, i'm heartened at how the overall trend seems to be moving back to 'give them boundaries.' wide-open parenting has its attractions and has been very popular for a long time now, but it is rarely done well and for most of us has just created a generation of entitled monsters.
khairete
S.

Maybe you need to sit down with this Mom and tell her that you can't allow the kids to play together anymore. Simply tell her you can't allow her child to hurt your child again.

You can expand that by offering advice or books or parenting classes that know about and could help her.

I'm with you. I recently posted a question about a situation I've been having with a new mom friend, her son always hits/pushes my son. I used to stand back and let her handle it but now I step in and speak to the boy. It happened again at the park yesterday and I was ready to snap. All the mom says is, "use your words." I cannot be friends with this mom anymore. It just doesn't work sometimes.

I think Hell would be freezing over before I would allow my child to be around that naughty child!