Desobedience

Alejandra -- I have read the responses you have already received, and at the rate of offending someone, I think some of them are off the deep end! I am a teacher - and for the record - I HATE THE CARD SYSTEM -- I was forced to use it the first year I taught in NC - because I was new, etc. - but can never be forced to use it again.

H. is my two cents -- he is a first grader - it is early on in the school year and you need to give him some time to get used to the 'system' and a new teacher - did he attend kindergarten there as well? Did they do the same thing? Did he struggle?

Obviously he should have had several warnings - of which I would be curious to know if were they all for talking -- and if he even knew or was told he was getting a card flipped. AND ask the teacher what his reaction was at the warnings...and what are the infractions for each colored card?

I would also disagree that he should be punished at home - at this point he should know that you are disappointed, but he was obviously punished at school - not sure what the exact punishment is - but I am sure it is not just a 'red card' - however I totally agree that you should reward him for green and other colors non-red :) - and I don't agree that it has to be STUFF bought from a store - it could be extra time with mom or dad doing something he liked, cooking his favorite meal, helping to make his favorite dessert, etc. - there are plenty of things to do that don't require extra money.

Things to consider -- where is he sitting in the classroom - would it help to ask the teacher to move him to a new table or to a 'separate work space' so he is not tempted to talk? When is it occurring the most - during indvidual work time or during group time on the rug? Is he doing it to be defiant or is he just participating a little too much? Or is it when he doesn't understand something and is asking a neighbor, etc. -- what exactly is happening and when -- get her to be SPECIFIC so you can address it SPECIFICALLY with your son.

I would be curious to observe -- without being seen of course, because there are very few teachers who use this system consistently and fairly -- and very few classrooms where children know and understand EXACTLY what they could get a card pulled for. Some teachers also allowed students to earn back cards...it is all SOOOO confusing to little ones...

In my classroom - we thrived on rewards - I challenged my class every year - saying I didn't believe we needed 'cards' because everyone in my class new what good choices were and had the power to make them -- I, too, worry that this teacher could have an impact on his experience this year -- you may want to ask her what positive things she looks for and rewards and how her class knows what her expectations are -- the hand raising thing is also something that most teachers use inconsistently, which is SOOO confusing for students. When does she expect him to raise his hand?? When he is working independently? when they are on the carpet? etc. And I am sure that not all students are addressed the same when it comes to raising his/her hand- I know that I was guilty of it - it is hard with a classroom of 20+ children. Is there any system set up in her class that is not negative -- taking away/flipping cards is negative - what positive system is there? I could offer suggestions specifically for your son that the teacher could use - if you are interested.

I hope that I have offered some help -- this whole issue makes me angry and I am not sure that I have made any sense. I would love to hear from you and talk more...if you would like. Curious where your child goes to school...

Also, one last thing -- don't jump the gun - someone mentioned ADHD, sensory integration....STOP!!!!!!!!!!! He is a first grader and is learning about school -- give it some time, please. As a first grade teacher I would never suggest looking in to that at this point in the year - they are just 'babies' learning how to 'conform' to the school way...

Good luck -- email me! I think you get it automatically when I respond...hopefully...and please don't feel that your son is being 'disobedient' -- it sounds like he just needs some time to mature and understand the expectations of a classroom. OH - and the comment about boys generally having more trouble 'being good' -- I don't agree -- there are plenty of little girls out there that have trouble adjusting to 'school rules' -- don't get discouraged! And please don't tell your little boy he is BAD -- I hate that too!!! He just needs some help making better choices - learning when to talk and when not to talk and when to raise his hand to get his teacher's attention!

Practice makes perfect. My suggestion (this is coming from experience with big time talkers, a group of 35 GIRLS!) Practice at home.

I have a dear friend that has trained her own girls very early on when they first started talking or even first started learning how to interrupt. She used reminders. Maybe at home you could practice with your son and by what he learns at home he will use his new skills at school. Maybe talk to the teachers (I know they have a lot of kids to over see but a little encouragement and praise from them can go a long way) As he does improve and he starts going in the opposite direction, even if it's one color above the worse the teacher needs to tell him how proud she is of him and how she recognizes that he is trying to do better)

As far as at home practice, if he interrupts when you and your husband are talking, when either of you are on the phone, when you have company and everyone is talking, etc. Sit with him and let him know that you know he is not purposely being disobedient or trying to be rude because he is a good boy and sweet but that you and daddy are going to try and help him do better in school by practicing. Make it fun. Right now he is getting in trouble for doing bad and instead praise him for doing good or what he is suppose to be doing. The best way of having those "praise" moments is to create them. Maybe tell him that after the end of each month if he gets good reports you will take him out to do something special and maybe he gets to pick what it is (as long as it's within reason of course). Boys have a natural competitive spirit so if you give him a goal to reach he will work hard and concentrate to reach it. Make sense?

I remember growing up and I always felt like my mom was waiting for me to mess up and I normally did. The harder I tried not to the more I got into trouble. I too had "too much talking in the classroom" on my report cards. I only got noticed when I did something wrong and of course had things taken away from me but never received praise when I did good. In my heart I wanted to do good. I am now 37 and that still very much a memory. I have a 16 month old son that receives praise and if he does mess up and I have to discipline him I still get on his level or pick him up, tell him I love him and kiss him.

I hope this helps

Hi Alejandra,

I am a third grade teacher who uses the card flipping system. I am not as strict with the cards as it sounds like your teacher is. The theme in my room is respect. Respect others, me and property. If they can do those things, we get along great. It is hard at the beginning of the year because we have to set the expectations high right from the start. My students do recieve a warning card everyday. There is no consequence to this card but it does leave a visual for them. I make the kids flip their own cards. I don't do it for them. That way they understand. I also tell them exactly what they do wrong and why they are turning a card. I have only gotten past the warning a few times so far this year. Now I do have a little more tolerance for noise that some. I can handle some talking in class as long as their work is getting D.. When I see that work is not complete, I ask for silence until the work is D.. The only time I have a student pull for talking is in the hallway. Other classes are in session and I don't want to interupt them as we move through the hall. I do have 23 students, so we do make noise as we move. Sometimes like a herd of elephants, but they are not talking. I also do give allowances for some students. IF I learn that a child has had problems in the past, I try to be pro active and praise that child right from the beginning. Sometimes, I also start a positive reward system. I do it in smaller increments instead of a whole day. That way it is managable for the child. I start with every hour and then work my way to half days. some students may never make it to whole days, but that's ok. They are learning to set attainable goals for themselves. Talk with his teacher. Find a compromise that you can both live with. You don't want him to hate school. If he does, by the time he would get to me, we would have some serious work to do. I love my students and try to do what is best for them as individuals but have a system that works for me. Good luck! please let me know if there is anything else that I can do to help.

S.

I must say that I really like and agree with what Trisha B. had/has to say. My son also does a similar thing. He has 5 colors to go from, and he has to "pull a pin" and put it on the color that he is moving down from. Although depending on the degree of the misbehavior it can skip more than one step. It is green, blue, yellow, orange, red. He is 6yrs old adn in the 1st grade as well. He has came home a few times with blue and I was concerned. I asked him and what he told me I was unsure about. So I decided to contact the teacher. Our teachers have email systems, so it is easy to contact them. He had to pull his pin one day due to the fact that I-- mind you I-- did not send in a paper that was supposed to be returned. No where on the paper did it say to turn in on Friday. He started school a week late, and this paper was to show what words he knew and didnt know, numbers, punctuation and what not. It said to work on them throughout the week and that she would see where he stood at the end of the week. I emailed H. and she said that she reminded him several times that week to bring it in. He never told me, well come on he is only 6! I think she should have sent something home as a reminder ESPECIALLY since there wasnt anything written on the paper. I let her know that it was my fault not his. She knows that no matter how small the infraction, if he doesnt get green, I want to know so that I can stay up on misbehaviors to ensure that it doesnt become a problem. She keeps in good touch with me now. She knows that my son is very sensative and he does cry at the drop of a hat. THerefor on some things, she tries to be more understanding. I do however like thier system of colors because not only is it colors, but rewards as well. They get "bucks" (not real ones mind you) but they get 4 for green, 3 for blue, 2 for yellow, even get 1 for orange, and of course non for red. Once they reach a limit, they can spend it on something. (not sure of all the things yet) But I think that it is early in school and if the teachers are already strung out this early on, they might need to get some help or are not in the right place! They are 1st graders. Not all 1st graders go to kingdergarten or have been in a classroom/daycare enviroment, so this can be new to them and they need time to adjust!. I am not saying that it shouldn't be worked on just understood. I would definitely talk to the teacher and let them not only understand my feelings, but my childs as well, and see what kind of conclusion you all can reach. If the teacher and you cant get along after exhausting applicable solutions, it may be that you need a different teacher (last resort). School should be not only educational, but fun as well. Our teachers are trying to do thier best to ensure that the kids are enjoying/having fun WHILE learning. My teacher also not only tells them why they had to pull thier pin, (make them pull it themselves), why it is not ok, and what they can do to solve the issue for next time. I do not agree that he should be punished at home either! He has already been punished at school. However having a heart to heart discussion... and I mean discussion, get him involved in it, wouldn't hurt. I do this with my son so that he thinks about it. I have noticed that his sensativity to things is starting to change, and he comes tome more and asks questions instead of getting upset.Hope maybe some of this helped.. good luck! and keep us informed!

I also have a six-year old in 1st grade. The fist week of school he came home with 3 red days and 1 green day. He told me that a couple of times it was for talking and another time for throwing his pencil. I wanted to take care of the problem early so that it doesn't get worse. First of all, when he comes home and has a red day he has to do a chore (usually emptying the dishwasher) before he can go out and play with his friends. If he has a green day he doesn't have a chore. Previously I took his bike away but he didn't really care, he just found something else to play with. It has to be something they really don't want to do to be an effective detterent. I also give him extra rewards for green days in a row. Last week he had a green day on monday, a red day tuesday and then green days the rest of the week. Since he had 3 in a row and it was a drastic improvement from the week before, we took him out for ice-cream on Friday night. This week he has had a green day all 4 days (we'll see if he made it all week when he gets home today!) I promised him we would go to the dollar store when he gets home and he can choose 1 item. Sit down with your son and find out what things he thinks would be good rewards for his good behavior and then you decide the consequences for the negative behavior (since it should be something he doesn't want). Whatever you decide to do, make sure it is talked about a lot. The kids need to understand that even if the rules are strict they need to be followed. That is just part of being a good citizen in our society! Anyways, remind him before he goes to school that you are expecting a green day and remind him of the rewards and punishments often. I have also found that it is very helpful when other people ask him about it. His dad asks him every day after work what color he got at school today and what went wrong when it isn't green. Let other people that he knows and trusts know about the problem and have them help you. Lots of praise from different sources can go a really long way! Good luck!

Alejandra,

I homeschool and know many families that homeschool for reasons exactly like this. If this is an option, I can help get you started w/ resources.

D.
____@____.com

Wow, I'm glad to hear that my son isn't the only one coming home with a red card or two basically every day. My son's school has the same system and I think it's terrible that this is used as part of their citizenship grade! He is in the third grade in an accellerated learning program this year. My husband and I were hoping that he wouldn't get so many cards this year because we thought that maybe he wasn't being stimulated enough and got bored easy in the second grade and got into trouble for talking. Obviously being in this program has been good for him but he still keeps talking with his friends. He says "but mom, my friend just keeps talking to me and I can't ignore him!" I'll ask how his day was at school and he'll say 'I got a card pulled today' but most often he (conveniently?) doesn't even remember why he got it pulled. We've D. the same punishments as you, with no change in his behavior. Have you talked to his teacher? We have in the past, but there isn't any working solution. I'm sorry to not have any answers to the problem, but I hope it helps to know you're not alone and that there are probably many others out there going through the same thing as our kids.

I would ask to observe (discreetly) in the class room and see if his problem is that pronounced. Has he ever had any probs sitting still for table activities or at sunday school? Possibilities include everything from a harsh teacher, to an environmnent that is distracting/anxiety increasing, to sensory integration issues to attention deficit disorder. There are things that an OT can do to evaluate for "fidgets" during lesson time and etc. There are many things to help with this thing ... many children have this issue and it can improve with behavioral cues and a plethra of things.

don't let him develop a dislike this early in his academic career. Talk to the teacher and tell her that your son is dreading school now ... many teachers are very helpful n working with you, OT'S and etc.

You need to quickly address the situation of him not liking school anymore, it is coming from how the teacher treats him, and you don't want him to be discouraged so early on in his school life. As for the talking make sure to practice at home, while having dinner or playing a game have him raise his hand to talk or remind him if he talks while you or your husband are talking, for practice. Just make it fun! You could even let him be your teacher and the babies (in his bouncy/swing) and you could raise your hand to show him everyone has to take turns! Just be patient and stay on top of his teacher that he is who he is and he is working hard but she has to also. Good Luck!

First of all, none of the respnders in this forum know your child, so ultimately none of us can really make a judgement about your child or his teacher.

As a former teacher, though, I will tell you that a disruptive student is maddening and you start to really feel sorry for the children in the class that are being well-behaved and attentive. Disruptive children generally take way more than their share of the teachers' attention and it's frustrating all around.

Generally, disruptive behavior is NOT inherited and not a medical issue. It is learned behavior. If you do feel that there is something medically wrong with your child, you should seek the help of a physician.

Consider how your child behaves at home. Is he loud? Out of control? Disrespectful? If so, this carries over at school.

I think going and observing at school so that you really feel like you know the teacher's expectations is a good idea. I would do it for a few days in a row and keep in mind that your child may or may not be acting "naturally" while you're there.

Also, I would set up a meeting with my child's teacher (and perhaps the school counselor) to create a plan for my child. Getting on board with the teacher, rather than saying a teacher needs to "back off" or "lay off" is a smarter plan. It also shows your child that you respect and support the teacher. You, your husband and your child need to be on the same team as the teacher and not playing against her.

Boys generally have a harder time sitting still and being good during the day than girls, and if he has trouble already it probably makes it doubly hard. I would definitely talk to the teacher and find out exactly what he is doing in class that is the problem. I don't know if you would be able, but it might be a good idea to go to the school and watch your child. You could observe his behavior and find out what he is doing, that might help you better at home. Also find out when his behavior is worse, in the morning, after lunch, because it could be something he is eating at school that is causing him to be a little out of control. I wish you the best.

hi alejandra
like the others said: the teacher needs to lay off!!!
he/she is ruining his school experience.kids are kids and he is only in 1st grade.it seems like now a days they want them all to be robots and sit pretty and quiet for a 7!! hour school day.that is a long time for a 6yo.
i like the idea of practicing at home,because you definately want to do your part of helping him understand and learn the rules he needs to follow in school.but you also need to talk to that teacher and ask him/her if they ever heard of encouragement and reward for good behavior.
giving a reward goes twice as far as giving a punishment.if his teacher is not willing to work with your family you might want to request having him moved into a different class.it is still early in the school year.
good luck
M.

I have two things to consider if you haven't already. I am the mom of 3 kids, one of which is in Kindergarten, and they have a similar green-yellow-red system.

He received one behavior report (which means he was at red) this week for talking too much out of turn. Today (Friday) was his first green since he started two weeks ago, and it was due to him getting a good night's sleep. He is in bed by 8:30 PM and wakes at 6:30 AM, so he gets a good 10 hours of sleep. He probably could even sleep earlier at 8:00 PM, and other parents I know put their kids at 7:30 PM. So first, make sure he gets a good night's sleep.

Second, to build on taking turns talking at home, you could use a "speaking stick" or "speaking stone" that is held by the person who has permission to speak. This worked very well with my son at his preschool the previous year. This technique was also used when my oldest son was 5 at his Montessori school.

HTH,

Dipti

OUR CHILDRENS SCHOOL DOES THE SAME THING WITH FLIPPING A CARD TO A DIFFERENT COLOR FOR BEHAVIOR. i HAVE NOTICED THAT SOME TEACHERS OVER USE THIS POLICY...AS SOON AS THE KIDS MAKE A MISTAKE THE CARD IS FLIPPED...THAT CAN RUIN A CHILDS DAY...THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT AT SCHOOL AND COME HOME AND TELL THEIR PARENTS AS WELL. SOME OF THE TEACHERS AT THEIR SCHOOL DONT FORGET THEY ARE JUST KIDS WAY TOO OFTEN. IF YOUR SON KNOWS THAT ITS HARD TO KEEP QUIET AND JUST FORGETS TO RAISE HIS HAND THEN PLEASE DO NOT LET THEM CONVINCE YOU THAT THE PROBLEM LIES ONLY WITH YOUR SON....SOME TEACHERS SEEM TO BE ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE..NOT ALL BUT SOME. PERHAPS INSTEAD OF TAKING AWAY THINGS...MAYBE TRY REWARDING HIM FOR STAYING ON THE FIRST COLOR ..OR FOR TRYING...GIVE HIM SOMETHING TO WORK TOWARDS.....I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY SOME SCHOOLS SEEM TO EXPECT THE STUDENTS TO ALL ACT THE SAME...NOT EVERY KID WILL BE THE KID WHO SITS WITH THEIR HANDS ON THEIR DESK FULLY ATTENTIVE AND ONLY SPEAK WHEN GIVEN PERMISSION. WE HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS WITH OUR SONS TEACHER IN KINDERGARTEN....SHE SEEMED TO BLAME HIM FOR EVERYTHING..EVEN TOLD OTHER KIDS THAT HE WAS A THIEF ( HE AND ANOTHER BOY TRADED TOYS FOR THE WEEKEND..HE COULDNT FIND IT RIGHT AWAY..TOTALLY INNOCENT) SHE WOULD SEND HIM TO THE OFFICE IF HE ASKED HER TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING...THEN LAST YEAR HE HAD A GREAT TEACHER AND NO PROBLEMS...SO MAYBE ITS THE TEACHER OVER USING THINGS. I DO WISH YOU THE BEST WITH YOUR CHILDREN AND SCHOOL. I AM SURE HE WILL START TO LOVE SCHOOL AGAIN...JUST KEEP AFTER THE SCHOOL AND THE TEACHERS AS WELL AND DO NOT LET THEM MAKE YOU FEEL BAD. WE MOTHERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO WANT THE BEST FOR OUR CHILDREN IN ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE.

Hello! I would recommend talking to his teacher about your concerns. My son's school also uses the 'card technique' for dicipline. He may need to be moved to a different seat away from friends or other 'talkers'. If the teacher knows it's part of his personality at home, etc... and not just at school, she/he may be able to be more leinient or even change the technique currently being used to fit his personality. My son is now in 3rd grade, my oldest, and I've learned thru the years talking openly and getting to know his teachers works best of all.
Good Luck!