Consequences for Being Late

I think he can miss a week or two of these gatherings, and you will hold onto his deck, with the understanding that the next time you give him a time to be home, he WILL be home.

To be honest, if it were my boys, they could have walked home anyhow. There was no need to pick him up from a place that is within easy walking distance. But he'd still be required to be home before dinnertime.

Just tell him you can't trust that he will come home when instructed so he can't go the next time. Make it clear that this will happen every time it happens. On top of that have a way he can respectfully buy more time.

I suppose my kids are lucky, I play video games too so I get the not now feeling. Still just as I have to stop something I enjoy so do they. They had rules like as soon as you know you are likely running over you call and see if there is an alternate time. If there is yay, if not they need to wrap up by the first time. They knew by doing it way ahead of time it was easier for me to change around my schedule where calling me when I am on my way the answer was always no.

Don't know if this will work, it just worked with my kids

With our teens, the consequence for being late is that a) they lose the privilege of going out at all the following week, including the weekend and b) we will deduct 1 hour from the time we would normally expect them home the next time they do go out and will hold that for several weeks. If there are no further incidents, we'll restore their privileges back to normal. While we don't have a set-in-stone curfew (because they don't yet drive and often what they are attending ends before 11 anyway), our "curfew" is generally around 11 PM for an evening outing, or until dinner time for an afternoon hangout, so if they were late coming home from something, they would be held to 10 PM for an evening outing and 4 PM for an afternoon. If they were late from this earlier time, they would again lose the privilege of going out - this time for 2 weeks - and when they were allowed back out again, they would lose 2 hours off the normal time.

Since we communicated this policy last fall, I'm happy to report that the two of them (ages 17 and 16) have not been home late from anything, so we haven't had to institute consequences. It will be a different scenario this summer when at least one of them is driving but hopefully they're so used to the idea now that they won't push their luck.

This technique was recommended to us by a family therapist. It's a natural consequence - going out with friends is a privilege and a responsibility. If you can't handle that responsibility and privilege, I will tighten the reins and treat you like a younger child until you demonstrate through compliance that you understand your responsibility to be home on time and can be trusted to manage your time accordingly.

Hope that helps!

I would have walked into the house and told him it was time to leave. Hopefully the humiliation of Mom embarrassing him like that would have made an impression on him.

By driving away, you gave him permission to stay later. It doesn't matter that you told him why you were leaving and that he had to walk home. He got to stay. You gave him permission to stay.

In the future, absolutely walk into someone else's house! It will make an impression on him.

Your teen is not going to listen to or respect someone that is so easy to push over. Every single thing you did in this situation gave him exactly what he wanted. He knew you were not going to do a darn thing about it other than send mad texts. Texting your son that you think he is being rude probably made him roll his eyes, because he knew he could just keep doing what he wanted. Obvou

Walking home wasn't a consequence because it suited his purpose.

The natural consequences for his actions is that he doesn't get to go places unsupervised because he has shown he can't be trusted. He needs to earn back that privilege by showing that he can follow rules and respect the other members of his family. Consistently for some time, not just for a few days. Perhaps he can have friends over to your house to play, while you're at home of course.

(Added: My kids love Magic too. So I learned how to play and built my own deck. I'm pretty 'meh' about it, but they like that I cared enough to try and surprised that I win quite often. lol)

If you're not comfortable going into a house to get him, then perhaps he shouldn't be in that house either. Think on that for awhile. My kids don't go anywhere that I wouldn't also go, but there isn't really anyplace I wouldn't go if necessary. If you *were* the kind of mom who would go into someone else's house to retrieve him, he wouldn't be this way.

The other thing I'd suggest is that you limit your texting with your kid to relaying quick info. Text is not a personal or effective way to have a meaningful conversation. If you need to say something important either call so that he hears your voice, or wait until you see him in person.

I know what I'm saying probably pinches a little, but I have two teen boys and neither have ever behaved like yours is doing. I don't handle things like you do, and I could see how problems would form with those methods.

I don't get it. He asked if he could stay later. You said yes. He then still wanted to stay later because he wasn't done. Why didn't you just say no? You could have told him, it was time to go, I am in the parking lot waiting and already gave you an extra hour etc.

I really can't believe your son honestly thinks that a game is more important than people. Kids are not mind readers. Did you try telling him how this effected your schedule? Or when you gave him the extra hour did you remind him it was a school night and that you had to make dinner etc.

I really try to pick my battles. Peace is often worth more than being right and if there is something that I see I could have done differently/better then I would just state my case and why I was so frustrated.

Re:punishments... I don't even remember the last time I had to punish my 16 yo. For that matter I don't even remember when I had to punish my 11 yo. You already had him walk home...let it go.

Walking a mile isn't much of a consequence for a 15 year old. I would have had him clean up the supper dishes himself or do some other extra chores. The chores you were unable to get done yourself because you wasted your time waiting around for him.

I suggest that firmer boundaries would teach him to do as you say. When you begin negotiating when he pushes you it tells him it's worth trying one more time.

I also note that you to picked him up later than expected. Is it reasonable to expect him to act differently than you? I suggest this whole situation was confusing. To expect a specific response you have to be brief with direct information of what you expect. Changing the plans several times is confusing. You said you'd pick him up at one time; then called to make the pack up time vague. You asked him to be flexible. I suggested it's right that you also be flexible. You expected hI'm to immediatEly come out when it takes time to end the game. You already know he's wanting more time. I suggest the issue that needs a consequence is his trying to negotiate after you've said no. When you continue to talk with him past your comfort level you do become irritated or angry. I suggest him trying to stay longer is part of the reason you're upset when he doesn't come out.

I'm saying that the confusion which included the arguing, the not having a definite plan because you wanted to finish shopping sets both of you up for frustration.

Why didn't you go in and get him? By inserting your presence you are telling him you mean business. I don't see making him walk a natural consequence because you were at the location and didn't follow thru on taking him home.

If you are unwilling to go into someone else's home how do you know it's a safe place for him to be. I always go in because I'm able to see what is happening and more importantly get to know the family better.

Again, I Suggest the more important issue is his arguing with you. I suggest that when staying longer is not negotiabe that you tell him what you expect and hang up. In this situation at the beginning I would've said I will pick you up after I finish shopping. I will call you when I'm done and I expect you to be on the porch in 10 minutes. If he's more than a few minutes late a natural consequence would be he can't go anywhere that requires you to pick him up. Specify when you'll give him another chance. Discuss this with him now so he knows the rule.

I also suggest you find a way to take what he does or doesn't do less personally. I guarantee he wasn't thinking his games were more important than you. He was pushing you and you agreed with what he wanted. Not coming out was seeing if he could push the boundary one more time.

I know it's difficult to first realize what boundaries you want to enforce and then follow thru with a consequence that he knows it will be in advance.

Another way you could do this is to tell him up front that if he's not outside in 10 minutes he will have to walk home. Be clear. Be concise. Don't get sucked into negotiating when doing so upsets you.

I would use a love and logic technique I think. I wouldn't talk when I was angry either so great job on that. One of the techniques is something like this: I wasn't able to get some things done yesterday because of the extra running around I did to come pick you up. The dishes need to be done (or laundry or floors or whatever) so I'll need you to get right on it. Another approach is to say nothing until he asks to go again and then say I would love to allow you to go but last time you pushed me on your time allowance. I don't think I'm up for another challenge like that. Maybe another time though and walk away.

I highly recommend Love and Logic for Teens. It has been a huge help to me in hopefully helping my kids see their responsibilities in their decisions.

Blessings!
L.

Could you clarify the events a little? Did you "leave and let him walk" meaning that he left his friend's house, walking, at the same time you and your other child left for home so he did no more gaming? Or did your teen then turn around, go back into his friend's house, and continue to play until he was ready to come home, and that's when he walked back?

If the latter -- you let him stay and continue playing. He may be sore about having to walk home, but frankly, he got his way; he kept playing. IF that's how it happened, and I'm not sure it is....then making him walk did not deny him the additional game time that he wanted. When he was "still negotiating and expected me to wait an undetermined amount of time" and you then left him to walk home -- if that meant he first continued to play before walking home, he got what he wanted. All he learned was that he can get more game time if he's willing to walk home. Some teens would be just fine with that and would not see it as much of a negative consequence.

Can you see how I'm confused about the sequence of events?

When you talk to him about this, I'd tell him that the next time he does not come home at the agreed-on time (no texts to stay longer), he loses all gaming at his house or anyone else's for a specific and substantial amount of time, and be clear that you will stick to that discipline.

Yeah, that natural consequence seems like a reward to me. He got what he wanted.

So he got all of the extra time he wanted and only had to walk home? My house would likely be cleaner than when it was first built if any of my kids had the nerve to tell me no.

I see no issue with you picking him up after the store, but then not ready and waiting for you when you gave him a heads up - ha! Gaming systems would be on lockdown for me, I would no longer bend the rules (for a period of time) to let him stay longer, and he would be doing a heck of a lot more around the house.

Seriously - if my middle school child were to be out for 8 hours on a Sunday no way would she get her homework done, let alone her chores. She is 11. Your son needs to be doing more around the house and learning to live on his own, since he so clearly doesn't want to follow the rules at home already.

And how do you get through to him without punishment? Stick to your word. Do not text argue with anyone ever, and no doesn't mean "maybe" or "yes", no means NO. Stick to your word and he will learn fast enough.

Sounds good to me....... next time (or two) he doesn't get to go over there.....

I did that with my kids when they were young... if I went to pick them up, and they were hiding or something, I just said out loud.... "If you don't come now, you don't get to come over the next time!" It always worked.....

And yes, you are right, you need to discuss this when you are rational, and not angry.

He was expected to be home at a certain time, and didn't come home until what... 3 hours later? Yes, I know he negotiated with you for extra time, but still, he blew you and the family off.....

Either natural consequences -- letting him walk, or just telling him, no, no more negotiating, you don't get to stay any longer, come with me now.

Neither of those approaches is punishment.

If he's got so much free time to play a game, it sounds like he could be doing more chores around the house to help lessen your load of things you have to do.
Is he doing his own laundry?
Does he take out the trash?
Does he help put away groceries after shopping and help clean up dishes/pots after meals?
Does he clean his own bathroom?
It's not punishment.
It's increasing responsibility/duties/chores due to his age/maturity level.
Many hands make light work - and all family members help with household chores so you ALL have some free time to enjoy.

Good for you for making him walk home. That's not a punishment - that's a consequence. You are not his personal chauffeur.

So I'd say the next 2 times he can't go with these friends or for that sort of activity. The third time, maybe he can go but for less time and he's absolutely to be home on time or he loses 3 more outings. He's not trustworthy, you tell him, and so he can't have the privileges that are afforded to responsible teens. And you set up the consequences so that it is more costly for him to defy you than to follow the rules.

So there are no negotiations when you are in the car and the 8 year old is waiting. Maybe ahead of time, but once the agreement is made, it's made. And negotiations have to be respectful and not the nagging, eye-rolling "OH MOOOOOMMMMMMM" stuff that teens do while they're telling you how much their life stinks.

The thing to remind him is that he CHOSE these consequences by being inconsiderate and by making the games more important than the family.

You can consider letting him work off his punishment so he just misses one outing instead of two but only if you have some meaningful chores to do that, again, take way more time than the hours he bargained for or just took from your schedule.

Get away from the term "punishment" and put in "consequences".

Have you every looked a teen contracts? There are many on-line. These are for kids who get into difficult situations (kids are drinking, doing drugs, etc.) - it's a way for a teen to be able to call his parents and say "get me out of here" without being punished for not looking ahead to avoid the situation. There are different ways to do it, including code words so a kid can make the parent into the bad guy rather than stand up to a group. So that's an example of something where you would not punish - you would agree ahead of time to a "rescue" without immediate consequences. It's useful at your son's age. (This is not for the gaming offense - but something else to think about re discussions of consequences and responsibility.)

Anyway, your goal is to make it less work for your son to have fun and do what he's told than to be defiant and irresponsible. Let him know he's going to have way more fun if he follows your rules than if he is inconsiderate.

I think a good natural consequence would be if you do not come out to the car right now then no Magic or getting together with buddies for a week. And he cannot go to the next Magic event. I would not have let him stay and have longer time. It's hard...they are like little addicts when they are doing something like this with their friends. My son is the same way.

He walked home and the next time he wants to go somewhere, you tell him at that time that he is to be home at x o'clock and no nonsense. Then that's it, no nonsense.

You have to stick to your guns or accept that your son will pull the same stunt again...and again.

Um.. next time he asks to go play, tell him no. He lost that privilege. Seems simple enough to me.

You allowed him extra time so he thought your time wasn't worth anything.

You sat and waited for him instead of going in and getting him and telling him off in front of his friends so he thought your time was not worth anything.

So, you have to teach him that your time is worth something. You have to teach him to respect you because he just showed you how much he doesn't respect you or value you.

Your problems are much deeper than this situation. I imagine this situation is just the tip of the iceberg.

You and him need to work through this where you both will learn boundaries.

My more huge learning experience happened in therapy with my daughter. We were in with the doc and she asked if she could walk to a fast food place and get some fries. I said no, that she was too young to go by herself. She kept bugging me and bugging me while I was trying to talk to the doc about important stuff.

Finally I let her go just to shut her up bugging me so I could talk without her constant "Can I please go...".

She went out in the lobby and sat down. The therapist asked me what had just happened. I was confused. My brain was mush from her badgering and I couldn't think straight. I was so angry she wouldn't just be quiet.

He told me the only way I was going to learn was to show me. He told me he had set this up. That he'd asked my daughter how many times out of a hundred could she change my mind even when I knew I was right if she just kept bugging me. She said over 80 times, at least 80 times out of a hundred should could manipulate me into letting her do something that was a bad choice if she just kept asking me if she could do it.

I stopped right then. From that point forward I told her one of three answers. Either yes, no, or I needed time to think about it and if she asked again the absolute answer would be no. She started hating me right then and there. But she stopped bugging me for the most part. She'd still test it now and then but then she would NOT get to go do the activity she was hoping for. That sucked for her so she'd sit by my and stare...her way of bugging me. I'd laugh inside because I could see she was frantically trying to remember to not speak to me again because she really really really wanted to go do this thing.

So this is what your son has learned. The more he manipulates you the more you're going to give in so he's got it down.

I can't say you did wrong or right. He was in someone else's house, where were the parents? If you'd have knocked on the door wouldn't they have answered and told your son it was time for him to go because his mom was there? Wouldn't they have gone to get him? If they were gone then why was your son there in the first place?

While I realize that Magic can take a long time, you did tell him when you were available and when he had to be home. He walked, as a consequence. I would have a face to face talk with him about respecting people's time and honoring agreements with you. If the sks refused to respect my time, they had to get another ride or stayed home. I wouldn't do it unless I happened to be going the same way at the same time. I think he needs to know face to face that you feel disrespected and the way to get more privileges is to be more respectful. He got extra time, so he had PLENTY of notice.

IMO, it really mattered not that it took you longer. You told him to be at the store at 6 and he was not at the store at 6. So he asked for an extension and then didn't honor that, either.

Something a friend did was have a "clock" and whenever the kid acted up and made them late, she "owed" them later. So if she threw a fit and they were 15 minutes late, she might spend 15 minutes on a chore she didn't like. I'd ask him what he thinks the consequence should be and see if you agree that it's enough, and that he understands that the time was only part of it. That the disrespect was the bigger part.

ETA: I just remembered this. My stepson is a huge procrastinator. Every year we would take the kids out to a super fancy dinner. We told them (and their friends, we allowed them one each) to get in the car by x time for our reservation. Anyone not in the car when we left was left behind. SS ran out the door with shoes in his hand because we were pulling out of the driveway without him. We did let him come, but he never again thought we would wait for him for such things.

for some of us a walk in the evening would be a treat.
if you didn't really need him home at 5, why was that out there in the first place?
i think what happened is that HE gave YOU natural consequences. when you don't have reasons for your rules, and you allow them to get shoved all over for momentary convenience, you end up with a kid who doesn't respect your boundaries. why should he? you don't.
you sent HIM the message that your convenience was more important than what he was doing. it just so happened that it worked out nicely for him.
so yeah, i think it's fine to restrict his gaming time with friends if he's being rude. but i think you need to start with you.
khairete
S.