Can a 4 Year Old Be "Depressed"??

Please look into giftedness in children. You just described my son-who is now 12. I have been to many seminars and owned a homeschool group for gifted children in San Antonio. Please look into this. The emotionality will be a nightmare for both of you if you both don't understand how to deal with it.

I had the same thing with my son too! He too is a prefectionist and it is hard to deal with. They don't know how to handle it since they are so young and still impature. I took our son to a child Psychologist and she told us that he had ADHD with a little depression...I took it with a grain of salt but a a starting point on how to help him. We put him on Strattera after trying many other meds that we HATED! and this one seems to be working. He is doing well in school finally and things are going well for him now. Every once in a while he will have a flair up with something that he really wanted to get just perfect and the teacher is so in tune with him that she is able to help curb this behavior from becoming to crazy. I would also see about play therpy as this is a non threating way to get him help w/o knowing that is what is happening. He would be able to "practice" the right way to handle something that doesn't go just right. Hope this helps! You are not alone!

I would offer the same advice as Karen, my hubby is Asperger's, and did (still does!) exhibit some of the "perfectionist" and habitual behaviors now that he did as a child. Reread what Karen said and give it some thought. PLEASE do net let the IGNORANCE in the advice sent by the last mom freak you out. I'm sorry to be so rude, but I CANNOT believe that anyone would actually say things like that to you. Plenty of children in this world have some issues, and they DO NOT all end up doing the drastic things that she mentioned. PLEASE don't let that advice get to you, PLEASE. It was foolish, and never should have been said. Remember this, ya'll are in the process of getting him checked out. (IT'S OK, BTW TO WAIT ON THE INSURANCE) And whatever is going on, ya'll will get him the help he needs. DO NOT PANIC!!!!!!!!!! It will be alright! Just take the proper steps, pay attention, give him lots of love and support, keep your eyes and ears open. One step at a time. And there is so much help out there, you just need to find the right direction. It certainly is, in my opinion, not "normal" for a child his age to talk about hurting/cutting himself, burning the house down, etc. So just proceed as planned. And most of all, calm down. Freaking out won't fix anything....

You, your son, and your family will be in my prayers!!!!

****BIG hugs*******

Hi Maretta-

Try to stay calm and remember that it could be a number of things and you are going down the right path to get him some help. I would like to ask you if you noticed anything else in his behavior other than being a perfectionist. Such as, does he have trouble playing with other kids and making friends? Does he have almost obsessive interests in certain topics or games where he plays them over and over again or talks about the same things over and over? I ask because my 6 year old was diagnosed with Asperger's at age 4 and he behaved in a similar fashion. He didn't talk about hurting himself (although he does do that now) but he would get extremely upset if he had trouble doing something exactly right the first time. Regardless of the diagnosis (if there even ends up being one) there is a lot of help out there.

Best of luck,
K.

I think you are doing the right thing to be concerned. If your child is feeling this much pressure at 4 I think it needs to be addressed because once they start real school there is alot more pressure. You are doing the right thing to talk about how it is OK to make mistakes and that everyone makes mistakes and to keep repeating that mantra until they can say it to themselves.
I would wait for the insurance to be approved and not spend that kind of money out of pocket though. Not sure if depressed is the right diagnosis. Sounds more like obsessive complusive and keep trying until you can find someone who can work with your child and the whole family to lighten up the pressure that you are putting on yourselves.

Dear Maretta,

As a professional social worker, retired., I am extremely concerned about your child's behavior.

It is usual for a child his age to talk about cutting self,
killing self and buring the house down.

I would urge you to find a child psychiatrist immediately.
He obviously is extremely intelligent.

Better that you are safe and seek help from a good recommended and qualified person.

You might try a good psychologist as psychiatrist tend to give medication. He may need it, however.

I wish I knew a good prson to recommend. God Bless you.
J.

Hi Maretta- Agree with the eval. Some friends(dr. and nurse) had their son evaluated and it was about $700, so $1000 is not out of the ballpark. While you are waiting for your insurance papers to come in, my only question would be Is he already on any kind of meds? I know you didn't mention any, so this may not be relevant, but my son was on Singulair for almost a year when my husband and I started hearing horror stories about the depression it causes. We took him off immediately! Good luck and will keep my fingers crossed for you. I think you received a lot of good advice(and some not so good, however well meaning).

Get the insurance taken care of. Children have feelings just like adults, and can be clinically depressed. Medicine can often help. People who talk about hurting themselves and otehrs are more likely to do it than people who don't. It is possible he is not just depressed, but is OCD. Could be lots of things. But you need a professional evaluation.

Ditto on food allergies. It wouldn't hurt to take him to an allergist. It can't hurt, and it might help, if only a little.

I've found with my difficult son that lots of things help a little, but no one thing is the magic panacea that fixes everything.

Good luck.

Depending on if you want your child on meds or not. A psychiatrist can and will prescribed meds. A psychologist cannot. I stronly recommend a play therapist. One who can get your son to talk through play. This is such good therapy. I hope the best for you and your family. This does sound serious.

Blessings!

My prayers are with you and your son, good luck!

Since you already point out when you make mistakes, show him you don't hurt yourself. I don't know if telling him these words upset you will make it better or not. The next time he pops off, sit next to him then, ask him WHY? Get him to talk to you, and try to explain what would really happen if he burned the house down. Since he seems like a very intelligent 4 year old, when he gets in trouble again, let him decide which punishment will work. Give him 2 choices.

My oldest son would pick time-out. (didn't want spanking)
My youngest son liked the spanking!! (time-out was stupid)

Still try to get medical help. All may need it for peace.

I am no psychologist but it sounds like more than just a perfectionist attitude. I would definitely hafe him evaluated and if you do not like this particular dr. find someone that you do. This seems like a depressed child does he have friends, does he seem mostly happy except for the mistakes? My prayers are with you.

Maretta,
Just wanted to give you some information on a christian ministry that emphasizes teaching about God's grace toward us (unmerited favor or unearned acceptance). It is Joseph Prince and he is on Daystar..channel 22 daily at 2 pm (central time).
These teachings have been so refreshing...my husband and I have been sharing it with family and friends. I also am telling my granddaughter in a way that is simple enough for a child to understand....when we begin to see God's grace and love it dispels self hatred and self condemnation. I will pray for your little boy!

A child at that age can be depressed. Taking him to see a child psychiatrist is a GREAT start. You are on the right track. Sounds like he may have bipolar. I was diagnosed with bipolar about 20 yrs. ago. It can be dangerous if left untreated. Monitor his behavior and report any dramatic changes to your doctor immediately.

I work with special education students, and we have had children at this age with the same problems, your son has.

Good Luck.

Rosie

Its great that you are taking him to the doctor. I think your on the right track. I think he might need a way to release some tention. I use to bite a stuffed animal. I know weird. Get one of those sockem bobem toys or have him take deep breaths to relax. So sorry your son is having trouble dealing with mistakes. Your a great mom for recognizing this and getting him some help. God bless.

I am a psychotherapist and I would recommend getting your son seen ASAP. No matter what the cause, the behavior is extreme and alarming.
Psychiatrists typically do testing and medication and psyhcologists do testing and therapy.
Take a deep breath and try to enjoy your family holiday.

I would take him to a psychologist not a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist often does not work with children that young and you would need to find a very good one if that's eventually what is needed. A psychologist can work with your son on behavioral issues and do a proper evaluation, more so than a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist is usually only prescribing meds and following up on that. I think you would not find that helpful right now. It is concerning the statements that he is making though and I think counselling would be a good first step. Often times your insurance will cover this and if not, you can call around to see who can see you on a sliding scale fee. good luck.

After reading the other posts, I'm really surprised the others haven't mentioned the fact that you and your husband are perfectionists. Speaking from personal experience, it really does not matter if you don't expect perfection from your children. They hear you and internalize the way you speak to each other and to yourselves. I wouldn't be "worried", kids are very resilient. I believe they learn mostly from modeled behaviors (remember that old - do as I say, not as I do?). Well, I would really work on trying to become a little more laid back. Your son needs to know that it's ok to not be perfect. If you expect perfection from yourself, he will do the same. We have gone through the same thing with our 6 yr old son. My husband and I have really had to watch how we react to stuff. My son has talked about the very same things. We don't hear those near as much anymore.
Good luck.

Dear Maretta,
There could be a simpler answer. Food allergies can make people behave in strange, violent ways. Most people think of a food allergy as making you have respiratory symptoms, headache, stomach ache, rash. I suggest trying something different first. Take him to an ND, a Dr. of Naturopathy. They treat any age and it is painless. Not only that but the treatments are holistic, meaning they will not have side effects like prescriptions can. If you are interested, I would be happy to give you the info on my ND. It is not a traditional "drs ofc" atmosphere. He will not be scared, nor are any of the tests invasive. No pain, no fear. Then you could still persue the child psych if you want.

I used to have these issues ,as well as one of my children.
The perfectionism in the home is not the underlying cause. It is debilitating to a person who thinks they "deserve" to be hurt. He is that enraged with himself that he wants to lash out. My parents didn't place this on me and we didn't place this burden on our child.

Peace, C.

If he's not regurgitating the mess on tv, and you don't think any of the other kids at you MOD program have taught him, then I would definitely worry. Not to try and scare you but he could grow up to be one of the kids you see on tv. So'n'So shot their parents, So'n'So maimed the cat. I've read medical documentation about kids that have lit the family pet on fire and laughed about it. I wouldn't be waiting for the doctor to get off her hind end with the insurance, I would be back at the pediatricians office wanting a referral to a shrink that took what I had for insurance.

There is a lot that could be going on with your 4 year old (some competition for attention with the younger child or other issues) but I would get him evaluated. I would think that $1,000 for an evaluation is VERY EXSPENSIVE! I also think that a pychatrist is an extreme beginning for his age. Try a therapist that specializes in children. The Krist Samaritan Center (based in Clear Lake but has locations all over the Houston area) is a good place to start -- they have wonderful therapist that work with children and their families (and as someone mentioned below, they do play therapy)... they take insurance but also have a sliding fee scale if you are not on their insurance. My other advice is to be open to going to the therapist for a minimum of 6-8 times before determining if it is "working", therapy is not an immediate fix... AND because you mention that you and your husband are BOTH perfectionist -- listen to what the therapist says with an open mind and know that if they ask YOU to change something that it isn't a personal attack but that everyone wants what is best for your son! Also, a good way to tell your son about this appointment is that "sometimes, we talk to people and that helps us feel better... we are going to visit someone who will talk to you and play games with you and you can tell them anything that you want and they will help you feel better"... this approach is much better than "the Dr. is going to fix your problem"... keep the focus on HELPING your son instead of fixing him!

Hope that this helps and hang in there... be patient with yourself and your son!

Yes, a 4-year old can be depressed. Yes, you should follow through with seeing a psychiatrist. No, it is not normal at all for a child to talk about self-harm or dying. Yes, he could follow through with self harm. Yes, his problem is treatable. Find a psychiatrist ASAP who accepts your insurance. If that's not possible. Call NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) and the Austin Child Guidance Center. They CAN help. Think about how miserable your child feels EVERYDAY. Don't delay. Find him help and relief. No one should have to suffer such mental turmoil. If you live in the Austin area, Dr. Robert Dobyns is an excellent child pshchiatrist. A talk therapist AND a psychitrist should be a part of your son's mental health team.

May God bless you all and give you guidance.

I agree with pretty much everything that I've read here and would like to add that you don't have to require perfection in your children for them to pick up on it from you. Keep in mind that they pick up well more than we think that we're putting down. I remember being a very sensitive young child, acutely aware of way too much going on around me but too young to know what to do with it. I dealt with depression...and even thoughts of suicide as a teen. It was always so overwhelming--my head and heart felt too full--and I was and still am somewhat of a perfectionist. I also developed some minor OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) issues to help me to feel more in control of the world around me. I am very aware of it all, so I work on not being too hard on myself and others.

I am still very sensitive and have to guard myself regularly. Speak to a therapist about an outlet for him, something that he can control and dump out what he's absorbed. Talk to him all the time--not inquisitively. Develop (if you haven't already) a rapport with your little dude that feels open enough to him that he's not carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders with no one to share it with. If he's wired to carry that weight, then you can't stop that; but you can help him to manage it. This is a great time to catch it, so you can teach him the appropriate coping skills that he'll need in this world.

This is definitely worth getting checked out with a psychiatrist. He or she will most likely refer you to a counselor. I know the word is scary..but they can help any textbook parents with anything.

If they draw it off as nothing I would suggest a local MHMR. They have a good counseling system. Our family went through it when my son was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. It helped us a lot. I wish you luck.