Bullying? What to Do?

Pick up the book "Queen Bees and Wannabees". This is really more about relational aggression than out and out bullying, a hallmark of which is coercion.

They aren't trashing her locker or threatening to hurt her for not sharing the boots. Kids trash talk each other a lot ... and will continue to do so in anything competitive. Sadly, girls have their pecking order and these things do shift from time to time. Teach her to have her own self-respect, values and integrity and to operate from that personal 'center'.

And stand up for yourself, too. When your daughter blames you for the hair problem, just say "you know, honey, it would be great if you could take the time to learn how to do it yourself. You have mentioned several times that it was my fault those girls were being critical. I'm kinda done with that. So either accept that my way isn't going to be perfect, or *you* take care of it."
When you speak up to her for this, she is going to learn that it's fine to put a person's responsibility back on them and make the same kind of healthy boundaries with others. SHE is not responsible for so-and-so having boots or not. That was THAT girl's family. Etc. If we hold our kids responsible for their part in what goes on, they can more wholly own what they do and feel less like a victim, more like a legitimate participant. Just my 2 cents.

I think it is part of growing up, a part that sucks.

My daugther is in 5th grade and has some "mean girls" in her class as well. She is very involved in a competitive dance team that doesn't leave a lot of time for school friends outside of school, so it hurts her sometimes. One girl in particular finally pushed all of my buttons. I emailed the teacher, asked her to keep it between us, and just to let me know what she saw. My goal was not to get the other girl in trouble, but to help my daughter learn to deal with the things she was running into at school.

Turns out we are 2 months later, and now the "mean girl" and my daughter are best buddies. Lovely. I'm trying to support their friendship to a degree, but making sure my daughter knows it will not be tolerated in our house for her to treat people the way the other girl does - and she agrees. Since she is on her good side now, she isn't dealing with the issues anymore.

So can you talk to the coach on the side or email her? Tell her you are not wanting to take any action and do not want to get anyone in trouble, but since she is around in those situations more than you, maybe she can tell you exactly what is going on...then you can help your daughter learn to tackle these issues better.

This kind of stuff makes me very sad. I wish kids and girls specifically were not so mean...but unfortunately many of them are.

The best thing you can do is strengthen your daughter. Point out that girls are jealous and that she needs to not be a magnet for these bullies who are almost like sharks smelling blood in the water, they smell weakness in people and prey upon it. She needs to be confident and tough.
Also try and remind her that the high school years can be hard and it will be soooo much better really really soon.

I do not look forward to having to deal with this with my little girls. I feel so protective of them. :-(

None of this is bullying. Please let your daughter continue to learn to navigate these social and team dynamics on her own. Be there for her when she vents or asks you questions, but beyond that, there's nothing you can do about stuff like this. Not all kids are nice.

My oldest son plays hockey (10th grade, JV). There are always some a-hole kids on every team. This year they have a freshman goalie who thinks he's all that and then some, so he acts like an arrogant prick in the locker room, has tantrums, blames other kids when they lose, etc. The rest of the team pretty much hates his guts and they either ignore him or tell him to f-off. It's too bad that they don't have a team captain to put this kid in his place and the coach doesn't spend time in the locker room but it is what it is. My son puts his headphones on in the locker room and tunes this kid out. His other teams usually have at least one kid who has an attitude, picks fights, thinks he's better than everyone, etc. and those kids are best just ignored. It's part of team dynamics.

To me the situation with T doesn't necessarily sound like she called to intentionally insult your daughter. It sounds like she was considering trying out and wanted some info but she is a bit full of herself and lacks the social grace to know when a comment is appropriate and when it maybe insulting to the other person.

I think it is very typical in high school sports for the varsity kids to feel they can push them JV kids around. You should be very proud of your daughter for how she handled herself with the boots situation! It seems she stood her ground without escalating the situation in any way. That is very mature for a girl her age.

I can see why these things bother you. None of us like it when our kids have their feelings hurt but to me the important thing is your daughter wants to continue. I'm assuming she has made some friends on the JV team and is enjoying her time with them and enjoying learning more about dancing. I would never go to the coach behind her back or without her approval unless the situation got to a point that you thought it could turn dangerous in someway.

Sounds to me like a normal part of growing up and seems like daughter is handling it pretty well on her own.

To me, this is all a part of being a teenage girl. Teenage girls are MEAN to each other. They always have been and always will be. (Grown women are exactly the same way, which I'm sure you realize. We exist to tear each other down.)
I remember this kind of drama when I was in cheerleading. It was as common then as it is now. How your daughter handles and internalizes it will define her, and greatly impact her social life at school.

I applaud her wanting to handle it for herself. It seems to me like you are most bothered by this stuff (which is natural). She seems to be annoyed by it, but handling it herself...she has stood up for herself and been nice about it in the process. GOOD FOR HER!

Continue to encourage her and let her do that. She is doing well herself. continue to share positive feed back with her, she'll need those words of understanding and encouragement. Also, encourage her - maybe a bit aggressively - to make other friends outside the dance group too.
When this was happening to me, I had friends outside of cheer that I hung out with. They will be her rock.

If she can appear (or even better, be) unaffected by the kids that are being catty and shallow, she will beat them at their own game in itself. She'll just need a good foundation of other outlets, so that if someone is crummy to her, she has an outlet to vent and tell her it's OK. And while you will always provide that for her...she will need to hear it more from her friends at this point, than from her mother.

Does that make sense?

Can you get to know some of the other moms somehow? My girls aren't that old yet but this would upset me too. I was on a competitive team in HS and there was nothing like this. Same with my sister. Somehow dance seems to attract this though? Not sure but my impression. I would try to get to know some other moms though to start feeling them out on this. I'd also try to casually bring it up to the coach. See if there's anything your daughter does to attract this or if it's jealousy etc. And then unless it's upsetting your daughter for long periods of time, let her deal with it. As she gets older, it should decrease or she may decide enough is enough. Nothing you're doing sounds out of line so far so just keep talking to her about how things are going. Ask her sometimes if being on the team is making her more happy than upset... Such a shame. I really wonder if a lot comes from the moms. From what I've seen so far, girls with nice mothers are nice. Girls with nasty mothers are nasty. Always some exceptions to that of course but seems to be a connection. Sorry I don't have direct experience but replied anyway bc I feel for you. Hate mean girls!

The best thing to do is to help your daughter come up with responses for when the girls are mean to her. Decide how she wants to react - ignore it, make a snarky comeback, take the high road, etc. Once she decides that, help her develop the language to use.

I do think you need to stay out of it as far as talking to the other girls, their moms or the coach. At 14, your daughter should be standing up for herself. If things escalate, then you may need to step in, but right now it's minor enough that she can handle it on her own.

It's hard to say where the line is drawn between bullying and general teasing. I absolutely don't condone what these girls are saying and I agree that they are being unnecessarily mean to your daughter. But, I don't know if I would call it bullying in the sense that schools with a zero tolerance policy on bullying would need to discipline the girls. Does that make sense? I assume there is more to it than everything written above, but it sounds more like general mean girls than actual bullying.

By helping your daughter speak up now and defend herself, you're giving her really important skills to use in the future. I hope she doesn't quit the team because of these girls. Hopefully there are others on the team that she can bond with instead.

My girls are involved in theatre which is very competitive as well. (Everyone wants the lead role).

I can tell you there are many girls in theatre that have big heads and think they are better than my girls. My oldest has one friend that tells her she will of course will get the theatre award for best actress at their HS. This girl does not think my daughter is even in the running although my daughter was the only freshman to have a lead role in the school play last year and she was the only sophomore to have a lead role this year. (The girl does have a better singing voice than my daughter however) Anyway, my girls take these kind of comments for what they are worth... nothing. We laugh about the audacity of these girls to make such rude comments and also will laugh privately about their huge egos. My girls understand that even if it was true that X is better etc. you simply do not say so even if you think it.
Re your daughter... I really wouldn't consider these incidents bullying and think that you and your daughter would be much happier to let these comments role off your backs. You can not change other people but you can change the way you react to them. Also, definetly do not view your daughter as a victim of bullying. Victims tend to be abused time and time again and this could hurt her self esteem more than anything.

Okay, here's a thought. I'd be looking at this another way.

If you daughter stays with the team either she's going to be their mental scapegoat and be picked on and ridiculed for the rest of high school

OR

She has to become one of them. That's right, they will not allow her to be one of them until she is just as mean and abusive to others as they are.

I'd let her find another activity that is so awesome she is thrilled to give up this team.

I would not want my child to turn into one of "them".

You have gotten a lot of interesting advice. I was reading them all because I am in the same situation you are in. The only reason I am chiming in is to let you know you are not alone. It is definitely hurting our daughters as much as we think it is, but how we help them to deal with it and how we handle it ourselves is what is important. We cannot change others, only ourselves. Encourage, strengthen, and help them through it. I don't think not doing it is a good plan unless she really doesn't want to do it. She is going to run into this as a grown up, the other girls grow up and usually remain the same! So helping her to get through it now is vital. What she does with the comments, belittling, putdowns, etc. is going to affect her greatly. Help her to see the truth about who she is. Being kind and sensitive is bullied, always has been, but it is definitely the way I want my daughter to grow up and the person I want to train her to be. I do not intervene, unless she is going to be physically hurt, as my daughter begs me not to as well. If they want to handle it, force her hand to. Teach her how, and then insist that she follows through. It is still going to hurt you and her when this happens, but teach her while she confides in you and you have the opportunity to! Good Luck!

This is not bullying. Yes, they are being mean, but that is not bullying. And yes, this is part of growing up.

Maybe the next time they are supposed to do their hair a specific way, your daughter can ask some of the other girls what they plan to do so she doesn't look out of place like she did the last time. Tell her to say it with a smirk as if she's laughing at herself and they'll probably be more receptive.

As for T's comment, people usually put others down because it makes them feel superior. Just explain to your daughter where these types of comments come from and she'll be better able to let them slide off her back.

Isn't high school just fabulous? NOT. I think she is handling things just fine. Girls can be mean we know that. She wants to handle it. That is great. That's how you learn to navigate the mean girl issues. Sounds like she will do fine. All girls,should follow her example and just handle it herself. Back in the old days, that's what we did. Bullying, that could,not be handled by the kid, only happened rarely. We learned to take care of things ourselves and we did. Your daughter is too.

Someone recommended you read "Queen Bees and Wannabes" and I recommend it too. I also suggest you have your daughter read it and talk about it with you! She may feel better equipped to deal with this once she learns more about what these girls are really doing. It won't make her FEEL better, necessarily, but the book -- and talking with you -- could give her some options for how to react.

I want to say that it's very good that she is telling you about these things. I assume you weren't actually present for the boots incident, and not on the line during the tryouts call -- and that means she is relating all this to you of her own free will. That is VERY valuable and meaningful. She feels she can trust you and share these painful feelings and embarrassments with you! You want to keep those lines of communication wide open. Tell her so. Tell her up front, "I really, really value the way you talk with me, and I'm always going to listen. I will do anything at all to help you, but I also don't want to get in your way of handling it." Walk with her through scenarios: What will happen at the next event/competition? Does she want the other girls to help her with her hair, for instance? (I'd talk to her about choosing with care -- some of these girls sound like they'd mess up her hair worse just to be spiteful.) And so on.

Also, does she have another, noncompetitive activity that means a lot to her? I would want to ensure that this dance team is not her only activity. She needs to have something else all her own where she is not having these struggles. Is she involved in a church youth group (if that's your thing) or Girl Scouts or a club at school or anything else? Kids are so overbooked these days (including my own) but if she has only dance team, then maybe she needs one other outlet where there is not that kind of competitive pressure.

These other girls see her as a threat -- she came onto the team out of nowhere, and they all have lots of dance experience. They're jealous that she's "taking up a slot" and wary that she might do better than they do, and/or they think she's inferior at the same time. It's tough. But keep the communications open.

Check in with her later in the year about whether she wants to continue. Tell her that staying on the team next fall, if she qualifies to stay on it, is not about "If I drop out, I'm letting them win" or "I have to stay because otherwise they'll say I'm a loser" -- it's about how she chooses to spend her time and they are not the bosses of her time. Things could improve enough for her to stay on the team because she likes the dancing.

I would add that if there are any truly serious incidents -- someone trashes her belongings, or puts stuff into/steals from her dance bag, or physically hurts her during a routine "accidentally on purpose," -- then yes, you have to tell her, "We are going to the coach about it." But otherwise let her handle it while encouraging her to talk with you.

One last thing. Is she on this team because she likes the team dance aspect and the idea of competing, or because she wants to dance, or because this is a kind of follow-on for her previous sport? (What was that, gymnastics?) If this is about just the fact she wants to dance, consider whether she would like dance lessons at a studio where she is not on any competitive team. (This also might help her with the team dancing if the studio uses the same style.) Eventually she might want to drop the team and take up dance noncompetitively and outside school. But if she's on the team for the overall aspect of being a team member and because she enjoys competitions, well, dance lessons and performances won't cover that. But it's something to consider. Maybe she will stick out the rest of the school year on the team and then would be open to summer dance lessons--that could help her make a choice about the next school year.

Yes, it's part of growing up. There is a reason Heathers and Mean girl were such popular movies.

This sounds really frustrating.

My son is in first grade and there is a boy, John, who has been picked on by another child, Ethan since preschool. I honestly think if the victim, John, acted like he didn't care the rude boy, Ethan, would find something else to do (most likely someone else to pick on). If John scooted his chair in Kindergarten Ethan would laugh and say John farted. Most other kids would have laughed it off. John was very frustrated. Ethan told my son 'I'm happy your going to be on the purple belt in Karate." I said that was very nice. My son went on to say that it was because John will still be on the gold belt. I asked if John heard and of course Ethan complimented my son only to hurt John. I pointed this out to my first grader and explained that it was very rude for Ethan to be hurtful to John.

I think your daughter needs to work on not letting these girl have such control over her emotions. I know, easier said then done.

Unfortunately, it's part of growing up as a nice, sensitive kid who trusts others. I had my share of that with mean girls and eventually learned how to find friends who were good to me and learned to ignore the rest. It's great that your daughter talks to you about it. Just be supportive and keep telling her to ignore them, keep her boundaries and only trust her real friends. Who knows why they act like that, but they are probably very insecure about themselves and turn into idiots when they want to feel superior to someone.

I guess my first thought on reading this is where exactly is the bullying? This just sounds like girls saying mean things on occasion to your daughter. They probably say mean and snarky things all the time to other kids to, it's what these girls do. My 14 yo has actually been "bullied". Its DAILY harassing by a kid or group of kids, to the point that 2 of them were EXPELLED from school and others suspended. So in your case, I think you are doing the right thing by giving her suggestions on how to handle them and she herself doesn't think its to the degree of doing more. If it accelerates, then I would take it to the coach, teachers and/or principal. Good luck.

That stinks. My heart goes out to you. I was picked on in school and it felt horrible. I am so thankful my kids are not bullied.
Some states have bully laws. I would check with your school.
Could you try to find another activities to get her away from those mean girls.

Mean Girls suck.
they're also ubiquitous.
none of this is 'okay' but none of it (other than the chick who tried to take her boots- i'd have yanked that one up by the short hairs) reaches the degree of intervention. i'm always a little amused by the 'zero tolerance for bullying' banners that schools blare. kids are and have always been geniuses at figuring out subtle ways to be asshats if their more overt methods get squished. punching and explicit names can be disciplined, but snotty looks, hazing, and hierarchies are unavoidable, and your only (and by far the best) option is to keep working with your girl on coping techniques. the only other option is to pull her, which ultimately won't help her cope.
because Mean Girls exist past high school. at some point we all have to learn how to deal with them.
khairete
S.

It sounds like your daughter is standing up for herself in some sucky situations where some girls that she doesn't get along with are making rude comments and requests. It sounds like your daughter knows exactly how to handle them.

What stood out to me is that your daughter entered the team as a freshman and the girls giving her a hard time are upperclassmen. It sounds like they're putting her through the paces, hazing her, and seeing if she can handle herself.

I would call it bullying if they were trying to sabotage her spot on the team, or if they were trying to isolate her and keep the entire rest of the team from being friendly with her or if they were being vicious in other ways. I'm not sure that what these girls are currently doing, including the one not on the team, would qualify as bullying.

I agree that they're not very nice. Maybe there's more going on that your daughter hasn't mentioned? Or that you haven't told us? Teen girls CAN be downright vicious. I was bullied quite a bit from kindergarten through part of high school. Then in high school something clicked in my brain and I started sticking up for myself. I found my voice and decided that when mean girls said mean things, I was going to defend myself and let them know I wasn't someone that was afraid of them any more. I defended others that were bullied too. I still do. I teach my daughters to stand up for themselves and others even when it hurts, even when it stings, even when fear and anxiety are threatening to overpower. It's my life, really. I'm an advocate and I get paid to be an advocate.

My eldest daughter is 13, and she's had bullying issues. She has such a strong voice now having dealt with bullies that she's known around the school as an anti-bully advocate. She leaves little notes for bullied kids in their lockers to try to help them feel better and make them smile, and she does it anonymously. The vice principal told me about this. She uses her words and knows the school's process, but she also has figured out the mean girls and how to hold herself up.

One thing I've told her is that no matter the positive language she chooses to defend herself and others is to always hold herself as if she belongs there ... no matter how she feels behave as though you're supposed to be there. Speak as though you know what you're saying and think what they're saying is stupid.