Behavior Problems - Santa Rosa, CA

I had the same problem before with my daughter when it comes to simple hygiene. So I ask her if she have friends. Even if she say yes, I would ask her if she thinks its ok for them that she smells like that, because she could be really stinky. If she doesn't put deodorant she really stinks. Then I ask her if how is she gonna make more friends if she stinks, or how can a boy start liking her if she stinks, so later on she decided to take a shower on her own. About the attitude, try taking away the things that she loves the most, like the video games, TV, computer time or maybe allowance. I did this with all my kids and they are all now afraid to make me mad.

Hi K.. I must say I feel your pain! Nothing is harder to conquer than a house divided. If only everyone in our family had the same expectations, goals, understandings... But of course in reality everyone has their picture of what is going on, what should be going on, and where it's going to lead. Outcome -- conflict, conflict, conflict.

What I've found, as a parent and an educator, is that this kind of situation needs an outside expert to break up the stand off. Many of us balk at the idea of a therapist, thinking it might be too costly. (Of course sometimes families have great insurance coverage if they just check.) But a great resource is your school counselor!

If you set up an appointment with your school counselor, she or he can give everyone the chance to present their point of view. Then she will probably mediate a bit, helping each person to re-state their views and issues to the other family members present. Then she will likely offer her own independent view of what needs to be changed, with specific actions for parents and children.

I have been through this process with two of my three children and boy did it help! The husband may not listen to the wife, no matter how expert her background, but he will listen to an outside expert! The child meanwhile may think the parents are "being unreasonable", but when the school counselor says she has recommended that every kid that comes before her start their homework by 4 o'clock and be in bed by 9 pm -- and that it made life 200% better for the kid (and the parents) -- it makes an impression on the child.

Plus the counselor can say, "I want you to try this for 2 weeks and report back." Much more effective than if Mom says the same thing.

If your issues turn out to be much bigger than this... then the school counselor may be able to refer you to full scale, but low cost, professional counseling.

Has she started getting her period yet?
I have two friends with daughters the same age as yours who went through the same issues right before the girls started getting their periods.
I don't know if this is helpful at all.
Good Luck,
K.

Speaking on hygiene: My daughter was a gross girl for a while too. Wouldn't shave the arm pits, no deotorant, would lie about brushing teeth when we could see yellow crumbs on them... it was torture to be around her. It just seemed like she didn't get the "uncomfortables". She just personally didn't care. So much so, that she wouldn't even put her silky princess jammies on for bed at night and she wouldn't slip into her care bear bed. She'd rather just sleep in the same underwear, jeans, and bra for days (if I let her) on top of her blankets so that she wouldnt have to make her bed (lazy). I really don't know why she did this, but it caused a lot of arguing and concern. Especially when she began her period at 11. We could smell the bloody maxi pad even.

I didn't want to turn it into a power struggle. So we would only talk about it when we'd smell the disgusting smells. When getting in the family vehicle... if it smelled like BO to sit next to her we'd say, "Hey, we can't stand it! and we'd hold our noses". As the mother I would only make one lecture, "Listen Miss, it's a matter of self esteem to take care of your body. I can't "make you" care about yourself. And other people's discomfort in their noses around you are not motivating you either... but, you really need to brush your teeth, put deotorant on, shave your arm pits, clean out your room of all the dirty clothes and underwear and get it washed. You will do nothing and get nothing until it's done even if you personally don't care. I just can not live around it anymore." And that would be it for a while. Most of the time I left it up to her to follow through with taking care of herself, but every now and then I had to put my foot down.

And here's just one side thought.... I understood that all of these things were difficult for her to incorporate into her life. So I did take the time to teach and practice these self care skills with her. All of her life, I taught her how to wash her hair, brush her teeth, scrub her face. But, then I also took quite a while to teach and reinforce how to put on the deotorant, shave the legs and arm pits, etc. Perhaps, she depended on my efforts to teach her too much, because when I let go and put the ball in her court... she never seemed to follow through on her own for a long time. When I obviously thought that she was smart enough and capable enough to do it on her own. I was too much of a motivator to her. She had no motivation for it on her own so she just let things slide.

She still had friends... they loved her anyways...

But, my husbands take on it was that if she grosses out the boys who cares. No boys will like her "thank God". Let her be gross for as long as she wants. One day she'll "get it" and then we'll be sorry.

Now, she's 16 and cares for herself like a normal teenager. But, when she complains about pimples I just say, "Did you sleep with your make-up on? Don't complain to me about the pimples if you aren't willing to follow through with cleaning yourself." Same for just about everything else. When she complains about her weight, I just say, "Are you willing to excersize? Don't cry to me about your weight if you aren't willing to excersize. You can eat all you want, but if you don't excersize, nothing will happen." She's not overweight by any means. I just learned that I have to be short and blunt with her and then just let it go.... because she makes her own choices.

Another thing I learned is that when things are bad... just let them be bad.... Not everything needs fixing right away. Kids are contributing family members whether they like it or not. They contribute to the peace or misery of the family. They have an area of influence. If your daughter is making things miserable... it's OK to react and be mad about it and go through the misery with her. She's an important part of the family and she is learning that she has an effect on people (with attitude and stink)...

When she does break down in her own mess of misery and emotional tears, thinking that everyone hates her and nobody loves her, just remind her that she is responsible for her side of the relationship and she has the power to destroy her relationships or make them better. And that you and dad are just waiting for her to make the choice to improve her relationship with you. It's OK to tell her that your heart hurts for her when she's prowling around angry, arguing, feeling yucky and miserable. Because you can see that she's a very unhappy person. But, you cant do it for her. She has to be her own cheerleader now.

Best wishes on this...

It honestly sounds to me like your daughter is pushing her boundaries just to push them. I think that, even with you taking things away, she gets a secret thrill from the fact that you can't "make" her do whatever it is that you want, and that you reacting to it proves that this control is something that she can use to push your buttons.

My advice? Stop punishing her for the "little things". Lying and stealing should be dealt with in an appropriate manner - force her to either tell the truth to the person or to stand there while you tell the truth to them and apologize for her behavior for the lying, make her give back whatever she stole TO THE PERSON, face to face. Many parents, I've noticed, tend to only deal with these things in the home and don't make their child see the consequences of what they did on the actual person they hurt. That can really help to wake a child up.

As for the chores and personal hygiene, I would say just let it go. If she doesn't get sick of stinking herself, peer pressure should fix the personal hygiene issue for you. As for the chores - if it's her room, ignore it (she's the one who has to live in the filth, after all!). If it's something in the rest of the house, it obviously has to get done anyway, but perhaps make sure that you schedule doing HER chores during a time when you'd usually take her somewhere or do something with her - "Gee, honey, I'd love to drive you to the mall, but I've got to load the dishwasher!"

I also feel that an allowance for chores completed is an excellent system. If you're taking away things that don't seem to have any relevance to the crime, she'll probably just think that you're being an unfair parent (as most children seem to think of us all the time anyway!). But, if you say "Well, you want that cute toy? Better earn some allowance for it! Here's how you can earn that money..." and then set up a certain amount for completing all her chores for a week or something.

These are just my ideas - hopefully something in them can help you. I just know from my own strong-willed child (who, granted, is only 3) that sometimes pushing them to do what they should be doing anyway only serves to make them shove back and refuse. Sometimes letting them alone and letting them come to it on their own is the only way to get them to really change.

K.
i know that feeling i have a 10 year old daughter and she acts alot like yours. i have tried eveyrhing. i have found that the simpliest thing works. I have given my daughter choises. when i want her to take a bath i ask her do you want to take a shower or a bath. both way i win. she want to argue about puting on PJ's i ask her do you want the ones with hearts or butterflies. it works for me. My daughter has ADHD and boarder line autisic. i have also found that if i have a writen schedule that she helps put together. it helps. Have you tried putting her in counseling? i hope i helped or given you ideas.

J. D

I have a ten year old who isn't quite so obvious with her behavior, but she really had an attitude problem. She would cry act like the world was ending if she did not get her way, she would roll her eyes or just stare me down if I her plans got changed.
One day another mother saw my daughter give me a bad time about some stupid thing, I think it was leaving before a nacho sale at school, and she sat down and really told her straight up that her behavior was pathetic and she needed to check herself. My daughter is in a wheelchair and plays the pity card to get her way quite often.
Anyway, the point being, an outside voice, especially a forceful voice, can really perk their little ears up. I think the therapy or counseling options are great, but even finding another adult who the kid thinks is kind of cool can sit down with her and really tell her that she cannot behave this way. Sort of scare her straight. Your daughter might need someone really tough to talk to her.
I also think checking with her teacher to see if there is anything going on at school. She might be acting out because of a miserable situation.

I feel your pain. It's frustrating and often leaves you feeling as though you're failing as a mother. Trust me you're not alone. Being consistant is the only true adice I can offer you. I have 4 kids in total. One boy, 3 girls. I have an 11 and 8 year old daughter. We have the same fights most times. The only thing that has worked is removing all "privaleged items" from them and making them earn them back with consistent good behavior. Often times I feel like I'm a mean mom for doing this but it seems to be the only thing that has worked and eased the tension in our home. Find her currency and use it. Good luck!

She is to young to cotrol u guys .when she whines tell her that whining is not aloud in your house, when she stills make her give it back to you and say when u do chores and do your hygenie then u get rewarded other wise no phone, no friends over, no tv, take things that she likes to do and she can get it back when she does the thing u want to do. when she argues with any of you just send her in the room and tell her u are the parents and she is the child. just give her one minute per year so in your case 9 minutes because she is 9, then make her say sorry for what shes done.

Wow, some of the responses have confirmed to me that I am on track with my own daughter. She's 13, and started what your daughter is going through over a year ago.

One thing that really worked instantly was that I bought that stuff that makes your mouth blue. She started brushing her teeth daily without being told.

For a little while getting her to bathe was easier when I got her a body wash set that had a different scent for every day of the week. I get her the teen deodarent that sparkles, her only problem is forgetting to put it on. She does carry some in her back pack, and leaves one in her locker at school.

When she started to complain about some of her laundry not being washed, I let her know that she is now responsible for doing her own laundry (I still provide the coins and soap). Her room is a disaster, and I think from what i've heard from countless others is that i just need to be patient. She has a bad habit of leaving food and dishes. Sometimes I don't let her eat dinner until that is taken care of. The laundry issue needs patience too. It's been a few months since she was to start doing her own laundry, and she had only done like one load since. My mother spoils her and sometimes washes whatever she brings over there. But this morning was the second time she had to wear something specific and it wasn't clean. I think she's getting it.

Also, the landlord came in the other day to fix a light switch, and he had to go to her closet where the curciut switches are. She was really embarrassed (even though he didn't mind), and has since been working on her room.

It might be helpful to take her shopping and let her pick out some things for herself. It wouldn't be to reward her, but if she can make some positive choices for herself, she might not feel so pressured.

A really big thing is lots of love. My sister is ADD, and sometimes she's just so worked up that I had to take her up off the floor and hold her and take her to bed and tuck her in. My sister is now an adult with ADD, but she does a lot better, and she's not on medication. She is into art, acting, photography, dance, etc. Maybe you can expose your daughter to art. Maybe having the power to create something will help her self esteem, and she'll have something to look forward to.

Give her hugs and kisses whenever you can even if she resists, you can still give her pat on the shoulder or something.

Hi K., have you talked to her to see if something might be going on at school? maybe she is getting picked on but scared to bring it up.have you had any mommy and daughter time together? see I started this with both my girls because they are always fighting for my attention so they got to pick one night and that would their night only to do something with mom and the other would stay with dad.I know you work nights maybe it is something you can do on your day off.even if it is doing crafts at home but just one on one,that way it leaves communication open for your daughter. my daughters talk to me about everything.good luck sweety if that doesn't work maybe some family counseling.~L.~

Wow. Your daughter sounds a lot like me at that age. I never fought on the hygeine,but everything else I did. My mom and I couldn't live with eachother at all. To be completely honest, I think you need to get her some therapy. My parents didn't do that with me and I never got along with my mom until I moved out of the house, got married and had kids! (Granted, I did that at 19 and am still very happy.) She's now one of my best friends, but I don't think you should wait for that with your daughter. She's going to miraculously wake up one morning and be a cheaper little bee. There are probably some underlying issues that need to be worked out and it's going to happen with or your husband. Someone who knows what they are doing needs to handle it. I was completely miserable all the time, I hated myself and honestly thought about suicide. Yes when I was that young. I'm not saying your daughter is, but it is safer to get her help that can deal with her issues and if she is that depressed inside you need to fix it fast. I hope your daughter gets help. Good luck to you and your husband. Oh, and the reward thing most likely won't work. If she's truely rebelling she won't do anything you want no matter what. Sorry.

K.,

I must say that I completely feel your pain! My middle child was the exact same way for a while. He has since got a little older and was able to really talk to us about his problems. Turns out that he was feeling like the only way he could get attention was to act that way. We also did a reward program but with very clear requirements and we took a good amount of time to make sure that he did them. If he had to be coached to do it then he would still have to but without the reward.

E.

Read Setting Limits with Your Strong Willed Child by Robert Mackenzie. I personally cannot recommend this book enough. It is wonderful.

K.,

I was very hesitant to email a response to you due to the seriousness of the problem that you are having with your daughter. It really sounds like you should get her into counciling as soon as possible. There is definitely something going on with her emotionally.
I had the same problem at that time, only I ended up being more passive, and then lying about everything all the time. ialso didn't take care of my self at all. I would wear the same clothes all the time, never brush my teeth, and forget about deoderant. I would take things from my mom all the time, money, clothes, make-up, and then lye and say I didn't do amy of it. I felt like there was no one that I could trust, including my mom, even though I really didn't have a problem with her. I basically did most of the things that you are talking about your daughter is doing. I was screaming for help by doing those things because I was too scared to ask for help.
I really hope that this is something simple for your daughter to work out, but for me I was being abused by my father.
My mother had divorced him, and we only saw him on the weekends, so that was when it would happen. I don't blame my mom for anything that happened, I just wish that I could have tried to talk to her. Please show your daughter as much love as you possibly can, and hopefully she'll come out and tell you what it going on. Maybe it's something as simple as , she doesn't like her teacher, or some kid in her class is giving her a hard time.
Good luck...and I am sorry if I have offended you in any way.

Hi K.,

Have you tried taking her to a therapist? I say this a lot, but it really helps. When you are a kid, sometimes you feel you can't discuss thing with your parents. It can really help to have someone not related to chat with. I would definitely try therapy first. If she does not want to try that, ask why. Maybe there is something that has happened to cause her anger and frustration. Hope this helps...

Blessings,

K

Dear K.,

You are in deep water, and you need help and lots of it. You do not have to figure all of this out by yourself. Start getting help right now, do not wait one more day.

Sincerely, C. N.

I had similar issues as Rachel c and this was the first thing that came to my mind as well. I am not saying that it is her father for me it was one of his friends and I had no one to talk to about it. may be you can take her out for lunch just the two of you and try to talk about what was going on in her life. that is what my mom finally did and it got me to open up to her and I was able to start resolving alot of issues with counciling again I am not accusing anyone at all it could just be kids at school picking on her and she is lashing out at home I hope this helps