Behavior - Beverly Hills,CA

My daughter will be 5 in dec and her biggest prob is listening too ...but most of that behavior is totally unacceptable and would be an immediate pop on the mouth and thats why she NEVER swears or talks back.....in public ill flick her with my finger...it only took a couple of times....as far as listening ill reminder her twice to do what i said then there is a warning of a punishment...like youll be grounded the rest of the day...or dad tells her he'll give her hot sauce....that almost always works but she has gotten it several times...on the other side she gets lot of positive praise when she being good...and not in a condescending baby tone likke she 2...i hate that....i treat her like a you g lady and she acts like one...

I'm anxious to hear responses from moms that have dealt with this. My 5 year old grandson also has some of these issues and I'm wondering if it's the results of his parents divorce and a very angry dad or something else. Good luck, I'll be waiting to hear how things go.

I think it might help if you change your approach to disciplining him. I think its hard for kids to obey orders, but it's easier for them to behave if we are sincerely trying to *help* them- the things he needs to listen to are for his own good, after all, - we are helping them learn to be socialized and stay safe- but it's hard for him to know that if it comes across from someone who is yelling.
Instead of having consequences to him misbehaving, why not try- as hard as it may be at first because it will happen al lot more often than you think- to say positive things to him when he's doing something RIGHT. Really let him know he's doing a good job or you are having a nice time with him. It requires lots of focused positive attention on him. But that's what kids really need to have the self-esteem to develop self-discipline. Then he might realize that what you have to say is worth listening to- that it feels good to listen to you-, and some of what you need to to tell him when he's misbehaving will carry more weight.
Good luck it's rough!

You could also look up classes from the Center for Non Violent Education and Parenting. I'm currently taking a parenting class from them and the violence they talk about is less about physical (though they do address that, too) and more about how we tend to parent thru manipulation, control, and shame instead of empathy. It's a very powerful perspective and helps to identify why we are triggered to anger and yelling over certain things, etc. I highly recommend it. www.cnvep.org

I would suggest to step back and only comment on the positive things or the things that he is doing well. "Thanks for getting dressed, I appreciate it that you remembered to put your toy away, etc." It sounds too simplistic and may not work depending on your child's temperament, but as a Kindergarten teacher it works well with most kids. Give lot's and lot's of complements and see how he responds. You might even use an behavior chart marked for each hour and then give a reward system. Hope this helps.

J.,

I can relate. My child is 7 and we're still battling. She was bossy and self-centered from the beginning and the battles began when she was 2. We've tried the 3-2-1 magic approach and I'm currently reading the Strong Willed Child. I never thought I'd be a yeller, but that's what all the frustration led me to become. While it often got the immediate situation under control, it taught her that she could push my buttons. We tried an entire list of rewards - we promised desired desserts/snacks/treats, excursions - trips to the water park, zoo, etc, painted finger nails, requested toys, money. We had a list of punishments - sleep in the dark, door closed, no nightlight, take away toys, no snacks, take away treats, time outs, sleep on the floor, etc. We took her to a child psychologist, had the principal and the pastor speak to her. We had her write "I will not xxxxxxx" 100 times for each offense. Some times it gets better, but she is always pushing the envelope to see how best to get what's best for her.
It's frustrating and scary. We keep trying to shower her with love and appreciation when she does the right behaviors. That has helped some. As she gets older, we can discuss more about the consequences - no one wants to believe you because you have lied in the past (the boy who cried wolf), everyone will acuse you when something goes missing because you've been caught stealing before, etc. She's slowly getting the message, but we know she will be a challenge and hard headed.
She's often too smart for her own good. We continue to try a variety of rewards and punishments and conversations as we find what does and doesn't affect her behavior. Every child is different. One thing I learned on MamaSource is the word "do-over". When she asked sassy or whining, I give her one chance by calmly saying "do-over". She understands that she can make the same request by asking nicely or I will completely ignore her. I try to view "yelling" or "losing my cool" as LOSING to her and part of LOSING HER in the long run, so I'm constantly reminding myself to "do-over" too.

You are not alone. I wish you the best of luck.

LR

Hi J.,
I have a 4 1/2-year-old that was having major listening problems as well. I read a wonderful book that made me realize he wasn't doing it to misbehave. It's called "How to behave so your preschooler will too." I can't remember who wrote it. It was very informative, and I refer back to it regularly as other issues arise.

Hope this helps!

K.

the book "How to Talk So Kids will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk" and, "Your 5 Year old" are great books.

you can get it both from www.amazon.com

I really recommend it.
Many 5 year olds, do this, and as parents, many times we can't help but yell. These books, sheds light on the DEVELOPMENTAL characteristics of each age, and of a child. Thereby, helping "us" with them. They are kids, not little adults. They are still developing as far as understanding, impulse control, and emotions.

All the best,
Susan

This is easy. First buy the book off amazon.com called parenting with love and logic. then Go to www.loveandlogic.com and look up or download their catalog. They have countless cd's on all kinds of topics divided up by age group. Amazing ways to deal with kids and remain the adult and not take their bait!!! Email me for more info. And it all steams from just love and empathy. It will change your world.
Hang in there,
S.

I HIGHLY recommend the book
"1-2-3 Magic" by Thomas W. Phelan, Ph.D.

I just found their website too:
http://www.parentmagic.com/

Basically, and to quote the back cover of the book:
"Dr. Phelan simplifies the job of parenting in three straightforward steps:
Step 1: Controlling Obnoxious Behavior: Learn an amazingly simple technique to get the kids to STOP doing what you don't want them to do (whining, arguing, tantrums, sibling rivalry, etc.)
Step 2: Encouraging Good Behavior: Learn several effective methods to get your kids to START doing what you do want them to do (cleaning rooms, picking up, going to bed, homework, etc.)
Step 3: Strengthening Your Relationship: Learn four powerful techniques that reniforce the bond between you and your children.

In 1-2-3 Magic you will also learn how to manage the Six Kinds of Testing and Manipulation, how to handle misbehavior in public and how to avoid the Talk-Persuade-Argue-Yell-Hit Syndrome. You'll also discover how your silence can speak louder than your words."

I'm sure you can find the book for a good price online and possibly at the library. I've loved this technique so far and I haven't even done everything it says...yet. The best part, for me, is that no yelling or spanking is involved. It's gentle discipline that works...and it's so simple!

Of course there's more out there than this book, but I immediately thought of it when I read your post. Best of luck!

Hi J.,
This must be such a difficult thing to go through. Sounds like he is trying to get your attention, even if it is negative. Does he have any sibilings? He needs to respect you, and you need to find a way to make that happen. Maybe he wants to spend more time with you doing fun things. Try taking him to do things he loves to do. I know it sounds weird because he is always acting out, but it really does work. You need to open the "good" comunincation with him, and teach him that it is ok to talk out the things that upset him. Yelling is obviously not working. Try praising him for the good things that he does do, even if it the most simple thing like "good job son, you finished all of your dinner. Maybe tomorrow, I'll make your favorite dish!" Building trust is very important, ALWAYS follow through with what your saying you are going to do. Consistancy and repetition works wonders. Also, staying calm and even toned can throw him off and make him think that whatever he is doing to make you yell at him is NOT working.
I always tell my daughter (when she has a melt down) that I'm not dealing with it and I walk away. If she follows me, I just walk away from her. I may end up walking around the house a few times, but it always works. She will end up calming down and eventually I'll talk to her. I always make her appologies to me and ask her why she has to say sorry.
Try spending some quality time with him, and I promise things will change. These are all things that the "Super Nanny" suggests. She has a book out there, and it is really good, but I can't remember the name of it. Sorry
Good luck to you!

Honey, you really have to get into some parenting classes. This is not good 5 year old behavior! Your son may have special issues, but most-likely, he has learned what you've
patterned for him. You need a complete intervention and some concrete suggestions on how to handle him and more importantly, YOURSELF as you re-learn what it really means to be a parent. Talk to your doctor, your priest, counselors at a school, someone--anyone--and get some help NOW to learn to help this precious little soul (and also yourself). I have a five year old, I've had five children,none of them acted like this, and this is not normal! Don't ever think that it is! Children want you to set limits, and they try your patience, but they deserve to be treated kindly!~ Do you swear in the home? Stop immediately! Think of another NICE word you can say instead. Try something totally new--whenever your really want to get him to do something--whisper---make it fun, be cheerful, be happy. Treat him like YOU'D want to be treated. Make things a game, make home a pleasant place to be. CUT the yelling in any way! It will take time and you will make mistakes, but try to be the parent you know you can be. Take him on your lap and read him a story. Tell him you're trying to be a better mommy and you need him to try to be a better boy. Look at his eyes and get down with him, on his level, and be his friend. Treat him tenderly, love him. LOVE HIM! Don't yell! Yelling brings resentment and difficulty. If you have to, pretend he has a terminal illness. How would you treat him if it were his last days on earth? Be that kind of parent for a week. See what changes it brings.
Do definitely enroll in some parenting classes, get some really good ideas of behaviors YOU yourself can model so that he can begin to make changes. (Most hospitals have them, and when I've seen them, they seem to be free most of the time.)Truly love your little boy, and do whatever you can NOW so that he won't have a wretched life. NOW is the time to make the changes so that he will grow up loved, secure and not be a miserable unhappy teenager and miserable adult. I know you want the best for your child, or you wouldn't have written to Mamasource. Good luck and God bless you both.

I have the same sort of 5 r old.

for whynning(sp?) I ignore him, or say, "I'm sorry i don't understand you." I say it over and over and over. eventually he changes. he used to get mad and start yelling, but, now he is used to it, so he changes more quickly.

swearing he probably picked up from someone, my son will try to swear at me, and I say that is mean talk, I never talk to you that way, you are not allowed to talk to me that way. And, for some reason it worked.

for my son taking things away and time outs have never worked. the only thing that works is taking time from him, as in, not playing w/a friend, not helping w/ cookie making, no slip n slide. the bed time thing is a pain. have you tried a reward chart? if he stays in bed he gets to choose breakfast the next day? and after 5 stickers he gets something, like a trip to his favorite park, or what ever his thing is. earlier to bed has never worked for me. getting him tired out, as in lots of exercise during the day, might help.

Hi J., Watch the "Nannie" and try her methods. Then beg to get on her show. or...stop yelling, stop listening to his excuses, take away all privledges and don't give in, use time out (naughty chair) and stay at home to get this under control. You don't need to go anywhere with him in this state, is he like this at school? with your husband? grandparents? friend's house?
evaluate, get on his level and observe, something is going on and you will solve it, and help him.
good luck and keep us posted. D.

Sometimes this is a cry for one on one time. Is he at day care allot? He feels out of control so he feels the need to control.

Also go to loveandlogic.com it gives one liners to say to get quick reaction.

good luck -M. R

you have tons of great advice already. my 6 year old did this last year. i think this is just a part of their development at this age. I have to say it got much better after he was 6yrs. I am not sure if he grew out of it or he just accepted he wasn't going to get away with the behavior. I love the re-do idea for both parents and children.

the thing we did that worked well was a rewards jar. we use play money and different amounts get different things like $20 for a 100% spelling test, or $1 for taking vitamins in the morning with no argument. you would need to decide what he needs to work on and reward him accordingly. if something is very hard for him like bed time you can make a chart and list "going to bed the first time = $$" when we started this we used the same consequences for bad behaviors we normally had. the money jar only had deposits to help him not get discouraged and quite frankly it would have been empty those first 3 months if it worked backward as well.

we also have a redemption chart so $100=a toy(under $10) $30= ice cream etc. I really try to catch him doing good things like clearing his dishes from the table without being asked, laying out his clothes after his bath- the more i "catch" him doing good things the more he does them not for reward but out of habit.

I am a yeller and we do still have moments that i loose my cool for sure but this has made it easier for me to have a tool to fall back on without always trying to control his behavior, it becomes his choice and he is the one missing out on fun stuff.
good luck i hope you find a good solution that works for your family>

Hi J.,

Your son's behavior is very age-appropriate. Here is an article that I wrote that might be of some help to you.

http://www.gilabrown.com/GB/Blog/Entries/2009/7/21_The_Ga...

If I can be of any further help, feel free to contact me. I also have a parent workshop coming up in November that would be perfect for you.

Be well,
G. B., M.A.
www.GilaBrown.com