Baptism - Richmond,TX

L., this is the first time I have ever heard of a Catholic church charging any kind of annual membership fee. I have been Catholic my whole life, have been a member of 5 different parishes, have had my kids baptized in 2 different churches and never, ever has there been any talk of money. Of course every church needs financial support and relies on members making regular contributions to keep things running, but one of the principal tenets of the Catholic faith is that all are welcome and there is not need to pay to join. A fee for religious education classes is standard but it should be a nominal amount (our chuch charges $40 for a non-sacrament year, a little extra for grades 2 & 10 to cover the costs of extra books and supplies for Reconciliation, Eucharist and Confirmation).

Anyway...I would talk to the pastor and explain your situation and see if you can enroll her with her peers even without the baptism. She won't be able to proceed with the sacraments of Reconciliaion and Eucharist until she is baptized, but the lack of baptism shouldn't preclude her from attending classes. That will buy you another two years to work through the baptism issue with her parents. Unfortunately, because you are not her legal parent you can't baptize her into a religion on your own.

Did the pastor of the church you were thinking about baptizing her at actually tell you that they have a "yearly fee?" I'm a 31 yr old cradle Catholic and have lived in 3 different states, and I have never heard of being REQUIRED to pay for a baptism. Attend Mass, yes, donate to the church--not required.

ETA: I believe it is against Canon Law to REQUIRE a payment for ANY sacrament.

I have legal guardianship of 2 of my grand kids and I would not have them baptized or any sort of religious thing done to them without at least trying to talk to their parents. Since I have not legally adopted them I do not have parental rights. That means that their parents have their rights.

I am not familiar with conservatorship and how it differs from court granted guardianship. Unless I have adopted the kids I don't have those legal parental rights. I have the right to manage their money, buy and sell property in their name, I can take them to the doc and make medical decisions for them, sign permission for them to have surgery, sign school papers, do pretty much anything that a parent would have the legal right to do, I am just not their parent. Those parental rights have not been terminated. They can request that the guardianship be terminated but they have to go through the court system since we filed for guardianship through the legal court system.

My daughter is doing much better now and if I wanted to do something like this I would talk to her first. I would also invite her to take part in it and be there.

If you feel very strongly about this then perhaps it's time to visit with the parents. They are the legal parents of this child and have every right to be on any document where the parents are supposed to be listed.

I do not put my name in the parents line of any paper unless it also says parent/guardian or something similar to that because "I" am not their parent even though they have been with me since near birth, she's been here 9 years and he's been with us since he was 4 days old, 6 years ago.

They do not know their fathers at all, could not even pick them out of a line up, I probably could not either.

So I suggest you realize that you are not this child's parent and decide if you want to address this with the parents and see if they'll let you adopt this child legally then you can put your name where you want it, as their parent.

You should discuss this with your particular church. This may not be held to the same regulations as a child living with one or both birth parents.

IMO, unless they are involved in the religious upbringing of this child, it should not be their payment to cover. This is your choice and you cover it. But if they are involved, then discuss splitting the cost with them.

You have to pay a yearly fee to belong to your Catholic church? You're going to the wrong church. I have never had to pay any sort of yearly fee to belong to my church, nor for my daughter. She's 5 and we do pay a fee for her classes at church, but we do not have to pay a fee to belong to the church. We did go to 3 different Catholic Churches in our area before we found one we liked, though.

If you have custody, even full custody, you must review your custody orders if they say anything about baptism, and if nothing is explicitly mentioned, you should consult a lawyer before you do it.
Even full physical custody or conservatorship may have exclusions on what you can do for the child and religion is often a part of this.
Many states have laws on the books that prevent foster parents from having their foster children baptized and this can be particularly important if the child belongs to an ethnic, religious or cultural group that has special protections (such as many native american tribes). If you do get the child baptized without consent and without making sure that you are legally able to, it may have serious consequences if someone decided to make a stink about it, such as trying to get custody of the child returned.

Baptism/religious issues are not taken lightly by many people and the courts, I would tread very carefully on this if I was you.

Essentially, you cannot request Baptism for someone else's child. You are the child's conservators, not her parents (in a legal sense). It may be different in your state, but in many states this status gives you the legal authority to make decisions (health, educational, financial, etc) for the child. This does NOT cover religious decisions, including CCD.

To respond to your question, though, why would you ask them to pay for her religious education? You stated in Part 2 that the biological parents are not Catholic, so having her Baptized into the Catholic faith is something you would be doing outside of your responsibilities as her Conservator. It is up to her parents to decide if she will be Baptized.

As others have suggested, if the end goal is to have her reunited with her biological parents than this is an inappropriate action on your part on many levels and you should not ask them to fund something that is your "choice", not your responsibility. She can actively participate in Mass with you weekly without receiving the Sacraments.

Are you sure this is a Catholic Church? I have been a registered parishoner at 4 different Catholic Churches in my lifetime and have NEVER heard of a membership fee. Weekly tithe, absolutely. Dues? Absolutely not.

i can't imagine trying to get a child baptized without the parents' consent, and yes, signatures. even bad parents.
i HOPE all legitimate religions have rules about children having resonant religious events and actions taken without parental consent.
i think you should approach this as 'i would love to get you on board with this.'
i mean, do you need help paying the fee?
if the parents don't care about the child's spiritual and religious life, why insist that they pay it? if they agree to her baptism, shouldn't their signatures be enough?
it sounds as if you want to punish them, which i'm sure is totally understandable. it's just not germane to this situation.
khairete
S.

Are you Catholic yourself? I'm confused. The way you worded your post, it's not really clear.

Why would you think that you should ask the bio parents to foot the bill for this when it's your idea and desire, not theirs? Why would you think that they would be interested in not only paying money to the Catholic church, but go to a class?

I'm sorry, this is very odd. If it's YOUR desire, you pay.

Also, I'm a former Catholic, have gone to many churches and none of them required you to pay a yearly fee for attending the church.

If YOU are making this religious choice for HER to be baptised and be a member of said church and attend said church related activities/schools/services etc then it is YOUR responsibility to pay. If bio parents do not wish this "lifestyle" upon their daughter and have the ability to say no then that is something you have to figure out, however under no circumstances are they responsible to pay for choices YOU make. I can not speak on the religious practices of it all as I am not informed enough to help, but I can say that it does not make any sense whatsoever to ask the parents to foot the bill for your descions in raising their child.

I hope you are able to convince the parents to give up parental rights so you may officially adopt and be the only one responsible for these decisions in the future.

You may be able to check with other Catholic Churches within your community. Each priest has different rules.

My cousin had permanent fosters until the courts did their paperwork and she was allowed to finally adopt them. She did have to wait for the adoption to go through before she could baptize them. As godparents, we had to show a certificate to her church that we took a class. We found a church that allowed me to take the class and sent paperwork home with me to give to him and then they signed our documents to provide her church. We were not members of this church, however members of another local church.

When we baptized our daughter, we had to take the class and the godparents had to show they were members of their church in good standing. They didn't have to take a class.

Our daughter was baptized on a Sunday by the deacon, but not during mass. Now the new priest does baptisms during the mass.

They are all different, so you just may be able to find a church to do it as the paperwork stands.

Hi L.,

First, I'll answer that I'm Catholic and have been all of my life. Both of my kids have been baptized as infants. If the kids have not been adopted by you, the biological parents, if listed on the birth certificate, must be on the baptism certificate. The baptismal records, along with the other sacraments, are legal documents for the Catholic church and will be used for the rest of their lives. It also provides back up documentation in case of needing to prove identity (for example, my husband's family lost his birth certificate and the wonderful state of LA couldn't "find his" in their records, so to get a passport, he had to use his baptismal record, along with other random documents to prove his name, age, etc - also, we weren't married or even together at the time our first daughter was born - my now husband, her bio dad, is not Catholic and it didn't make sense to me that he would need to be on the baptism certificate, but he is due to their policy).

Second, you need to ask for clarification with the church regarding their "yearly fee". Many churches do push for people to be active members in their parish before undertaking a sacrament. Part of active membership can be defined as giving back to your parish, in the form of time/talent and/or monetary donations. If you do not agree with their policies or do not feel comfortable there, please look to a different Catholic church. Each parish has its own policies and culture, so I'm sure you can find one you feel at home at.

On a different note, I think you should ask yourself why you want her to be baptized, especially in the Catholic church (you don't need to answer to any of us). Different religions view the process and reasons behind baptism differently. It is not up to any of us answering on this post to tell you the "right" way to baptize (and on that note, in my parish, 5 year olds are fully submerged under water in the baptismal font with the priest or deacon - not "sprinkled" with water as others suggested). If you have beliefs that are in line with one religion over another, that should help direct you. The Catholic church has parent classes prior to baptism so they can understand the Catholic theology and what baptism really means as that child grows in the Catholic church.

I will speak my opinion on this situation now - obviously, I do not know the background or reasons why the parents haven't been involved and now are. That being said, I believe that in situations when possible, religious matters are best to be discussed among those who directly impact the child's upbringing. Obviously the parents are involved (to what degree, I don't know) and while you have custody, you have not been granted to adopt her. So, I think that leaves the possibility (again, not sure to what extent) that her biological parents could be back in her life more and more. I think it'd be very hard and religiously detrimental on a young child to be baptized at that age and then have a situation where they have adults that are unsupportive or uneducated of that pathway as they grow.

I wish you the best of luck as you move forward in this situation. I'm sure it's tricky and emotional to deal with.

~L.

You can Baptize this child yourself by dribbling water over the forehead and saying "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Amen". You can formalize it later.
FYI...I am Catholic and performed an emergency baptism on my son.

Regarding biological parent names on the baptismal certificate: YES, you must have the exact biological parental names on a baptismal certificate. Historically speaking, baptismal certificates were considered as good as birth certificates when applying for things like passports. This is no longer the case. But this is the origin and pastors/priests are required to oversee these important details.

But the annual fee? Is this another avenue for how the Catholic church makes money? By charging annual fees for baptism? One more interesting and totally not biblical financial Catholic fact that is news to me?

I don't think that is correct. I was adopted and I can assure you my parents are the only ones on the baptism certificate, well and my god parents. Still that is an adoption.

I am divorced and I know my decree states neither my ex or I can change the children's religions without the other's permission. I guess I am saying there may be legal issues but not religious issues.

Since the bio parents have not been involved for 4 years I certainly would not contact them for anything now. Because if you do they may then become involved once more. Of course I don't know the circumstances of the reason they're not involved.

There are fees for ccd class there is no yearly fee to belong to any Catholic church. There is no fee to be baptised. You are not Catholic or you would know these things.

um no.
Baptism is a personal choice for Baptists. It happens after you make the conscience choice to follow Christ. And I've never heard of a church asking for a yearly fee. What is this a country club? That's crazy, what about poor people that can't pay do they just not matter to God according to this church?

Hi there,
I am catholic and i have never been charged a fee. you can donate but if you can not afford money then your time and talent are appreciated.
as far as the baptizing her, i really believe in my heart that the biological parents should be making that choice, i understand you have conservatorship but still you have not legally adopted this child.
just my two cents.
good luck and many blessings

Honestly, I would wait until the custody arrangement has been figured out. You have custody now but it sounds like the bio parents are working towards putting their family back together and if that is the case then I would focus on that and making that transition as easy as possible on the child before I would worry about who should pay for her religious training.

It seems unlikely that the Church will baptize her without the involvement of her biological parents given that their parental rights evidentially are still in tact (custody is different than parental rights). It isn't that the BIOLOGICAL parents names have to go on the baptismal certificate it's that the PARENTS names have to go on it. No matter how much you love this child, and how much you support, care for, and protect her... you are NOT her parent unless you birth her or adopt her. Baptism isn't just a fun ceremony, it's a sacrament. In the eyes of the Church, it's PERMANENT and you are NOT her PERMANTENT PARENT (yet?).

The "yearly fee" is a whole separate issue. We are Catholic and I have never heard of such a thing... HOWEVER, you typically ARE required to be MEMBERS in good standing of the parish which includes being registered and making REGULAR DONATIONS (which seriously... there are 52 Sundays in the year, you can't drop more than fifty cents a week in there each week?) If this isn't your regular church (which would explain why you aren't already a member and might need to pay an extra fee for the classes) why would you want to baptize your child there anyway?

No you can't ask the biological parents to attend the classes or pay any fees. This is something YOU want to do. If YOU can't do it because you aren't her parent, then you can't do it. Period.

Sorry.
T.

It is worth the effort at this young age?