Any Other Long-term Nursing Moms on Here? Help! I'm Burning Out!

Just a suspicion... but it sounds to me like you've got 2 very distinct problems that are combining to create the burnout:

1) Behavioral (throwing fits/screeching/not listening)
2) Sleep Dep (from nursing through the night)

The behavioral one is the "easy" one. You wouldn't let her act that way about anything else... right? If she threw a fit for not holding hands crossing the street/ wanting a toy/ eating solids/ etc., so why nursing?

This stage (to me) was the hardest. When they transition from being a baby (knowing what they NEED) to being a child (knowing what they WANT). I have a VERY independent & "imperious" boy. Teaching correct behavior & empathy & kindness, while encouraging imagination & independence & chutzpah... so not an easy task. Definitely a very loooooong task. :)

The second one, sleep dep, is harder. I am a HUGE proponent of "feeding on demand" (ahem... but not BY demand;) Physiologically speaking there is nothing better, and psychologically speaking the only better thing is to be living in a loving and supporting environment. I quit nursing at night though, before a year (he had bottles at night, before bed, in the middle of the night... whenever he woke until he was 5... and after he started solids he would sometimes have full meals in the middle of the night if he was in a growth spurt). At 7, he rarely wakes in the middle of the night anymore, but he DOES always eat right before bed. Milk at the very least. He's also pushing 5' tall (should be between 6'4" and 6'6" when he's grown)... so we're on the outer spectrum for how much and how fast he's growing.

Most children wake hungry during the night until they're at least 3. Some parents just let them stay hungry (which I don't get,,,WE'RE not building bone and muscle and nervous tissue... but if WE wake up starving we fix ourselves a snack, but they who are doing this huge amount of work, far more than we did while pregnant... they can just go hungry? In our wealthy, food abundant society? In every medical and psychology class I've ever taken, it makes it clear that abundant & healthy nutrition in the early childhood years is VITAL for proper growth and development. Every child rearing source I've found from the 1800's and earlier makes it clear that wee ones (if you have the food) eat 24/7 typically until their confirmation around 5 or 6, and STILL "a growing child needs to eat" was the standard. In the animal kingdom if a runt survives, they're usually the "fat" ones later, because they spent their infancy/early lives hungry all the time. The metabolism just gets set at starvation mode. But we do this to our kids on purpose? I just don't get it. Anyhow I digress.

The night feedings are harder, if the only source you have to offer is yourself. At least with solids or a bottle, you only have to be awake for about 5 minutes. I kept "easy food" and bottles that I could warm up on the door of the fridge before going to bed at night. (Actually if he was in a growth spurt and I knew it, I would wake him up for a bite and a change right before I went to bed... which gave me about a 75% chance of sleeping straight through). Anyhow, if he woke up I could stumble to the kitchen, heat up "x", stumble in & hand it to him... change his nappie while he ate... and then just kisses and stumble back to bed.

One q though... are you willing/able to cosleep for awhile? My son flat out refused until he was 3 (he liked his space, that one)... so I know it's not always possible.

(i'm so sorry this is so long!... yikes.)

i've been there, mama!
uh, hi. my name is N. and i slept in a bunkbed until i was 37 weeks pregnant and i haven't slept through the night in over six and a half years.
it's amazing what you will do for your children, isn't it? my first nursed CONTANTLY. almost every two hours for three years. she has severe food allergies coupled with a seriously intense personality. she didn't sleep through the night til she was five. sleep training of any sort would have been literally torture to her - she would scratch herself to bleeding if left (not crying, but awake) for the shortest amount of time. when she finally seemed "better" at 2.5 we briefly tried nightweaning and she would scream, horribly, and then sit at the end of her bed and cross her tiny arms and wait for the sun to come up.
and at that point i gave in.
i gave in to the idea that there is nothing i am "supposed" to do except what i am compelled to do. i was compelled to nurse her through that difficult time and i was not compelled to wean her from the source of nourishment and comfort that brought her through so much discomfort.
and so i never weaned her.
i found mothering's child-led-weaning forum and read up on katherine dettwyler's research and now i think this:
1. it is normal to nurse a child for years.
2. it is normal to be frustrated.
3. it is normal to make magically exquisite milk for another human being that will change and adjust through those years to feed that individual directly.
4. it is normal to sometimes stand up and say "ENOUGH! i'm done!" even though #3 is still #3.
5. you can survive on less sleep than you ever dreamed possible, even when you aren't dreaming anymore because you're so damn tired.
6. it is extraordinary to openly, open-hearted-ly, reach out and ask for help and ask for support when you do these normal things in this society that cannot understand them.
i commend you for seeking support.
more concretely:
1. water. waterwaterwaterwaterwater. after that first year you can forget how much you need to make milk. i would chug a huge glass before any nursing session and it was seriously magic. it can also buy you time to "prepare" to nurse again.
2. with my daughter (and also with my son, now) keeping positive about nursing did wonders. so instead of trying to unlatch and roll over to get some space i started saying quietly, "sweet baby..." and then unlatching and snuggling them. or try "ending" daytime sessions with "thank you, crumbcake (kiss) let's read a book, now". it sounds kind of silly all spelled out like that but it was like a freaking lifeboat for me, i swear.
3. imagine this particular nursing session is the last one. (sort of creepy, but, it's weird how staring at the nursling makes the prolactin flow.)
4. i know how hard it is when you are tired - but being silly pulls my little one's close in a way that they sometimes look for with nursing. it's a blue ribbon trick at our house.
5. check in with yourself. if you really are done, allow yourself to be done. sometimes having that knowledge in your back pocket is all you need to realize you're, hmm, wow, sort of, not done. but by all means, mama, if you are, congratulations. you rocked it.

when my sweet girl finally did wean she asked, for the first time - it had never in five and a half years come up before (and we talk about EVERYTHING) - if anyone had ever asked me about why she nursed for so long. i said yes. she asked what i would tell them.
"i said you would stop when you were ready."
and she flew out of her chair and across the room and took my face in her hands and kissed me and thanked me.
and i would do it all again.
a million times over. for her.
i suddenly feel awake.

Hi A.,

Oh, this is a tough one! I know from experience. The dilemmas: feeling burnt out on nursing; wanting to have one's body to oneself; teaching our children that Mama is in charge of her own body while trying to be available...

First, as a mother who still nurses her 2 1/2 year old, let me say that extended nursing isn't easy. AND, if you are truly feeling burned out, it's okay to change up the routine or even start the weaning process. Your child is likely on solids by now, and while the breastfeeding is a nice supplement, that's what it should be--a supplement. So, if you do find yourself deciding that enough's enough, it's okay to make the decision to be done.

I think most long-term nursing moms go through days of "oh, I am soooo all done with this". I know I do. I chose to keep going because it still seems manageable, but we are down to two nursings a day, right before nap and bed. These are convenient times for me, and although he still asks to nurse at other times, I'm pretty consistent. The last time he was sick, however, I let him nurse upon waking too. He's not getting much milk from me at this point, but it's a comfort thing for him.

I don't know what to tell you about your daughter's grabbing your shirt, etc. It took a long time for my son to learn to sing, and he rarely ever signed "milk"--he just sort of went for it. Sigh.

Do you have someone who can spell you for some breaks? Having an afternoon out, some time away from a baby who wants to nurse constantly is essential for one's sanity. Also, when I found that the more natural methods of pain relief for my son's teeth weren't working, I didn't hesitate to bring out the tylenol. Teething children are in constant pain and while using pain relievers is often frowned upon by some, I tell you that it saved us. At the worst times of his teething, I didn't miss a dose!

I don't know what to tell you about the all-night nursing, but if you aren't getting any rest, that could be problematic. Can your husband spell you for a few hours so you can rest in a quiet part of the house? Can you get away for a day or night at a hotel by yourself? Your sleep circumstances sound extreme, and some time alone to rest can be so necessary.

I can't tell you what to do, but I can say that it sounds like you have done A LOT for your kids and you are a good mom. Remember-no matter what you do around this, you have many good ways of connecting with your children. Each child is different, but essentially the same: your children are 18, they won't remember "when" it was that you weaned them or how long you nursed --they will remember what a terrific day-to-day mom you were throughout their upbringing. I hope that helps, and takes the pressure off any decisions you feel you have to/want to make. Take care.

I think it is really important to take care of yourself. If you are struggling with this, it is going to affect your parenting elsewhere. So, even if you don't believe in setting limits on breast feeding for that purpose alone, believe in it so that you have the resources to do all the other jobs you need to do as a parent.

That said, i think that you really do need to set some limits. It is okay to decide to wean, to nurse only at home, or to nurse only during the day, or to nurse only under certain circumstances. I think it is really important to figure out what you need, and start making it happen. Really working to eliminate a night feeding would probably make a big difference.

Even if it doesn't involve changing the feeding schedule, you owe it to your kids to teach her respect. Respect for you means asking to nurse, not demanding it. It means that you can refuse to nurse her until she signs for it, or to not give in to what is basically rude behavior - lifting up a shirt and grabbing.

You can't really change the way a kid eats - how often or how hungry they get. But you can teach them good manners surrounding the activity, and it sounds like this is a starting place for you. Perhaps if you have easier behavior surrounding nursing it will feel easier all over.

Hang in there, and remember that you can take care of yourself, too. You are a mother, stepmother, wife, daughter, friend, AND IMPORTANT PERSON IN YOUR OWN RIGHT. Good luck!!

A., I had always thought I was on board with nursing up to two years old or so. (I do think it's weird when a 4 year old walks up to mom and asks for a snack and starts undoing the shirt. I would hate to have memories of nursing!) Anyway, I thought I felt this way through my first two daughters who pretty much self-weaned at 15 and 16 months.

But now my third daughter is going to be 22 months on Tuesday, and I'm thinking, "She's never going to stop! She'll want to nurse until I make her quit! I'm not up for this!!" I have already limited her nursing to nap time and bedtime, and beyond that, now I've started limiting how long she can nurse. Otherwise she'll lay there for an hour nursing, long after there's no milk left, making me sore and still not falling asleep!

She's done pretty well with the changes, though. I just told her, no it's not nap/bed time if she asked for "mama milk" during the day. And now when it's bedtime I let her nurse while I sing to her, probably for about 15-20 minutes and then I put her down. She always cries for a couple minutes, but then she just talks herself to sleep. (But she has her own crib in her own room, so I don't have the nursing all night situation.)

I'd say after the teething bout has subsided, try to implement maybe one small limit at a time to get back to where you enjoy it instead of dreading it. It helps make it a special time again, like it should be, instead of a chore, and baby will be no worse for it!

You deserve an award, A.! That is pretty rough. My daughter stopped nursing at 2 but I could have held out a bit longer as I only have 1 child. I have no regrets about the lengthy nursing. I thought my daughter would be blind but I later learned that breast milk aids the development of the retinae up to 24 months. Whatever you decide, you should be proud that you did this for your babies.

Hugs,
____@____.com

There's a great book by Dr Sears on night weaning. I'd check that out from the library and use that as a starting point. You don't have to wean completely, but if you can get a good night's sleep, that might help you feel better about the daytime nursings.

I know that when my oldest stopped waking to nurse (of her own accord at 18 months), I felt so much better and didn't realize how hard it was on me to night nurse her, even while cosleeping. That was nearly a year ago and there were a couple days last week that she woke to nurse in the wee hours. I was wiped for the rest of the day those days.

I do think it was rougher when the molars were coming in. We were traveling when she got all 4 of her first molars within the same month so it's hard to say why she wanted to nurse more then.

Is there any reason that your milk supply would have dropped? She could be trying to build your supply back up by stimulating you nipples through nursing.

As for the behaviors, you might try asking her to wait 3 minutes until the end of a song or something tangible like that to acknowledge that she's asked, but also to help her learn to wait a little. There's a DVD by Harvey Karp called "Happiest Toddler on the Block" that we really liked. It makes sense and fits with our style of parenting. He offers some suggestions of how to teach kids to wait and how to reduce frustrations, particularly when communication is part of the problem. We checked the DVD out from the library and watched it 3 times I think.

And FYI, I'm on nearly 2.5 years of nursing, the past 4 months tandem nursing my 2 year old and my infant. I absolutely believe in nursing past infancy/toddlerhood and as long as it's working for both of you! It's okay to modify your nursing relationship so that it's working for you again.

Hang in there! I haven't nursed for 4 years straight, but I am nursing an 18-month-old. She seemed to be weaning herself at right about 13 months and I fought it and then around 15 months she started nursing more than ever. She was also VERY, VERY demanding. She did the screeching and the pulling on my shirt, too. Thankfully, as soon as all of her molars broke through (about three weeks ago) she calmed down. Now she asks calmly by poking my boobs, nodding and signing "please"... I know, not the best method for asking, haha, but whatever! I just wanted to let you know she chilled out after those toothers broke on through - so there is light at the end of the tunnel! About the nursing through the night - I don't have that going on. Have you tried giving your toddler a hearty snack and a sippy cup of milk right before bed? That worked wonders for my daughter. Good luck!

Well, almost all I can say is wow, what a mom, and you have me beat by a mile. I nursed my son until 18 months, and can't imagine doing 2 at a time. No wonder you are exhausted!

I would go to a traditional chinese medicine herbalist, and get some support herbs for your energy level. Breastfeeding is very depleting for the mother. The only thing that helped me recover was these nasty tasting mud-like crude herb concoctions.

For weaning, I would look at the Dr. Sears books and website, and the Kellymom.com website, and talk to a lactation specialist someone at la leche league.

best wishes, and your dedication to your kids is very admirable!

I haven't been full time for 4.5 yrs, but almost. I couldn't handle the pain during pregnancy and stopped after 4 months pregnant. I weened my daughter slowly to nap and bed, then just bed, then off. I just let her know it was hurting mommy and she got the message with only a little fussing. She was 23 months. My son is 27 months now and still nursing. I have him down to nap and bed now. It takes some work and when he asks during the day, we go find a snack for him instead. It has been working pretty well, except when he gets sick, then he wants the comfort of nursing all day and night.

I was at a point with my son and I wasn't enjoying it as much and kind of wishing to ween him, but just weened him back to less time by timing his snacks better. It helped my outlook tremendously.

Keep up the great work, but don't let your daughter have milk when she lifts your shirt. It will continue a bad habit. Keep some snacks for these times and offer her one instead.

Good luck to you and to nursing.

D.
Much older mom of a still nursing 2 yr old.

Well, I've been there, done all of that, including the nursing thru preg. and tandem nursing for awhile. Sounds like it is just those darn molars that's making her so demanding, cause she's desperate for relief. It's a hard spot to be in, I remember it very well. Committed to nursing with all your heart, but physically feeling drained. The obvious advice would be to cut down the frequency of nursing to the point where you enjoy it and feel comfortable with it. Kellymom.com probably has lots of tips for creative distracting. I bet you things get way better once those molars are in. Also, finding other ways to soothe her teething, if you're not already. Ibuprofin usually works wonders. It is your body, and you're allowed to say no, or later...you're the mom.(that's what someone told me) ooh, how bout this for when she's frantically grabbing at your boob for the 50th time that day - try offering some frozen yogurt or some kind of other frozen, cold treat, and make a big deal out of how exciting it is and have some with her ??

I know this probably wasn't that helpful, but just know that it doesn't last forever and you're doing a great job :)

A., I've been there. I nursed my first for 3 years (but the last year or so, nursing was minimal). My second I also nursed for 3 years and when he was your daughters age he did the same kind of thing--just clingy, demanding, terrrible! And he woke up multiple times a night (we're talking more than 5 to cry and nurse and lay on my head). So anyway, it started to seem to me that he was using nursing as his sole coping mechanism if he was fussy, which was draining on me (you know about this) and it didn't help him either because he was unable to calm himself. Soooo, I started limiting nursing (this is weaning of a sort, it's just very gradual). So I would put him off, try to get him distracted with another activity. I planned more outings so that he wouldn't even think about nursing so much. And if he did get to a point where he really needed to nurse, I would tell him that we could nurse for a few minutes only. After those few minutes, I would tell him it was time to let go and I would count down from 5 and he would actually let go! A few times he wanted to keep nursing and I would usually let him for a short minute and then try again. I did this at night too. I would let him nurse, but I would just give him a warning when he needed to stop and if he could detach himself, he was fine with it. It took a while to see a marked difference, but when we did finally stop nursing altogether it was a non-issue.
Good luck!

I nursed my daughter until she was 27 months but I was only able to do that by setting some limits...after nursing on demand for almost two years it just started to get crazy and I got support from other moms who had gone thru the same thing and encouraged me to set up more of a schedule.

I decided to only nurse at home, in bed...basically in the morning, at nap time and at bedtime. My daughter had a couple tantrums and would still ask but after a few days of the routine she seemed to get it and I felt so much better...I was then able to wean her (a few months later) gradually and gently with no heartache for either of us.

The thing that worked best for my daughter was to always offer something else...not candy but something nice like fruit or popcorn or tea or a smoothie...I would talk to her about all the other yummy things she could have and let her choose (within reason) something else. She got into this pretty quickly and I think it helped her learn that when she felt like nursing she could also be satisfied with food or drink of another kind.

Best of luck to you!

A., it is great that you have nursed your kids for this long... hats off. I can only say that nursing should be pleasing for both of you. If it is a constant fight or you are feeling burnt out you should consider stopping. You have given yourself for the last 4 years, and I am sure your kids have a great bond and relationship with you, but you need to take care of yourself too...not lose yourself. You don't have to go cold turkey, that wouldn't be good, but maybe you can change it into just before bed. I loved how easy it was to just nurse my kids to sleep, but it was exhausting. Good Luck.

A.,

In february it will be 4 years since I have been nursing my daughter. I am fine with nursing my daughter until she is ready to stop, however I did put limitations on when she could nurse starting at two years of age. Only in the morning and/or at night. That way I would not have the whole lifting up the shirt thing or begging because she wants my attention or something.

I did have to make sure she was eating more so..I started taking her to the fruit and veggie stands and getting her really interested in food. It worked great because fruit has lots of water in it and the veggies keep her chomping. She loves carrots, apples, oranges, celery etc. I keep tons in the fridge where she can get to them and she eats them all the day.

Also warm milk helped too. I give her a glass after nursing at night to fill her up. Kids this age need lots of snacks because it's hard to get them to eat a big meal all at once. So, yogurt, fruits, veggies, toast etc are great ways to get them interested in eating healthy food and educating them on what they are eating.

Please take care of yourself and only you know how much you want to nurse. Just decide and stick to it, but make sure your child knows it's food and their are choices in eating and drinking you'd like them to know about.

G.

Way to go on nursing so long! I would suggest that you insist on some respect from your sweet toddler. She's old enough to use the sign properly and calmly (with practice). Perhaps you could switch to a nurse on schedule routine, rather than on demand? It seems like then you'd have a little more control, but you would be providing this lovely gift to her still. Then if it's not time to nurse, you tell her that it will be time to do that after you share your book together, or after lunch or whatever it is. Nighttime should be the same in my opinion. Figure out a good schedule for you and set her on it. One time a night, two? It's up to you. Yes, it will be challenging at first, but she'll figure it out quickly since it's the best thing in the world to her right now. :)

Hi A.:

I don't think at all that waening would be traumatic for her, it will teach her rules and boundaries, things she seems to have no concepts of. It is unacceptable to pull up your shirt in public or in front of guests. Period. And I totally agree, you do need sleep, and a 16-month old should be sleeping through the night. You neither do her nor yourself a favor. Set nursing rules that she needs to obey (nursing before bedtime is ok, but not during the night, etc.) I was lucky enough to have my daughter wean herself for the greatest part when she was 15 months old, she just lost interest, started playing, biting, etc. The last bit of weaning was easy then by simply distracting her during the usual nursing times, and a week later she was accustomed. We taught our daughter to sleep through the night at about 10 months (she should have earlier, but I made the mistake of going in her room and nursing her as soon as I heard her at night). I just let her cry it out basically (I can tell the difference between an annoyed crying, when all she wanted is help going back to sleep, or desperate crying, when she had a bad dream or so, to which I of course still respond). After about 3 nights of occasional 5-10 minutes wailing she slept through the night. Good luck to you!

Right before my son turned 3 I was in the same situation and wanted to wean him but weaning doesn't work when they get that old. I ended up having to have my wisdom teeth out and had to cut him off suddenly because of the meds. I took tempura paint and painted my boobs bright blue and told him mamas nummies are icky and he couldn't have them anymore.... there were only two nights I had to do it and then he forgot about it and we just had snuggle time instead of nursing time..... Good Luck!

Good grief Mom you are really doing the best you can to give her good mental health.
Time to feed her up good at dinner time. She can eat and should be encouraged to. Feed her something she really likes before you go out so she is not hungry. You can quit breast feeding her between breakfast and afternoon nap by just explaining to her how tired you are and that you need some recovery time. Yes, she can understand. "No I told you it is not time to nurse now. You can nurse at nap time." You may have to say that everyday for a couple of weeks and stick with it. Even that much time off is good for you.
Furthermore get a couple of blouses that have pull tabs or strong belts at the waist and tie them in back so that she cannot pull up your shirt in public.

I only have one. I nursed him until he was 2 yrs. old. I cann't help with the long term thing. However, if you let DD nurse when she , "lifts up my shirt anywhere and screeches if I can't nurse her right away." she will continue to do so. When she does this, pull your shirt down, take her little hands in yours, look her in the eye and say, "No. That's not ok. Ask nicely." Demonstrate for her how you want her to ask. After that, if she continues, repeat with how you want her to ask. For example, sign it and tell her to use her hands like mommy. I called it "nurse", so my son said, "Un" when he wanted to nurse. I knew what that meant. Never let her have it if she doesn't ask appropriately. It will be hard at first, but she will learn if you are consistant. Even if you nurse for 24 months, by now, she is eating solid food and doesn't need to nurse as much as she did before. I hope this helps.

A note of encouragement here...you are doing the NUMBER ONE MOST important thing for your child's health (physical and perhaps mental too, especially during this flu season). I have been nursing my daughter for 2 years now, and she is not really demanding at all, so I can't relate in that way. I have not offered and she has not asked during the day. Here dad puts her to sleep everynight, so nursing is not associated with sleep. She nurses soley now in the morning. So, maybe the dad can put her to sleep? Just a thought. It is tough, but can be done.,..even without a pacifier! We started with that, but then weened that very quickly. We didn't like the idea of a baby sucking on plastic. So, anyhow, those are some wee suggestions. Perhaps limiting it to 3 times a day, perhaps after her sleep and naps? Maybe that is a start, but to ween completely seems like a mistake. Good luck! Keep it up! You rock! :)

Hi A.,

I haven't read all the other responses yet, but wanted to mention that there is a La Leche League meeting coming up this Tuesday morning for moms of nursing toddlers (and beyond). I have found these experienced moms to be very supportive and full of ideas when faced with the challenges of nursing a toddler, tandem nursing, and weaning (or trying to!).

Here's the info about the meeting:

Toddler Meeting and Potluck Snacks 10 AM-12PM (No nuts in recipes please!)

Date: Tuesday December 1, 2009
Repeats: This event repeats every month on the first Tuesday.
Location: Community Room of McMenamin's Kennedy School located at 5736 NE 33rd Avenue. The room is located in the far southeast corner of the building so go around the back and park in the parking lot. If you'd like, you may bring a snack to share.

I can definitely relate to what you are saying. I'm coming up on 3 years of non-stop nursing. Currently am nursing my first-born and my 4-month-old. It is so hard when you find yourself miserable in the nursing relationship; especially when you actually still want to find a way to continue nursing!

Good Luck! And I hope to see you at the meeting.

I was prepared to nurse up till my daughter was 4, and around 18 months I started to feel burnt out too....one night around 24 months I was eating a plate of spaghetti while she was asleep when she woke up to nurse and when I offered her the breast she said "No I want spaghetti":) After that she petered off nursing and a few weeks later when she tried my milk supply had gone done dramatically and she looked at me and said "No more milk in there." Of course it took at least a year after that for my milk to completely go away, but I was amazed that she really did self-ween:) Just when you think you can't take it anymore, poof, it's over. Good luck, I know you are working hard and I wish you the best in finding a whole night's sleep:)