All or Nothing---update

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I can relate. I don't use drawers for that very reason. I use cubbies and hangers. Everything is in view and organized. NO messy cramped drawers to stuff clothes in. That might help.

I can also relate the the all or nothing with the house. I am alright with a little mess here or there, but if I get to cleaning I can't handle leaving something (a corner, or closet, or room) messed up. Its all got to be clean. My hubby doesnt get it when I say its time to clean the house and I go to organize the junk drawer! its got to be done and if I see it I can't leave it.

I hired a cleaning service when I was pregnant with my 2nd child. its REALLY helped. Its not as expensive as you would think and it allows me to leave things like the sweeping/mopping/vaccumming/toilet scrubbin to her on Fridays. I still tiddy up everything, but not having to dust etc helps me from getting overwelmed. I had to make some sacrafices to get her, but I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Hi Shaun --

Thank you for telling us your story.
It's really good that you're seeing a therapist.

I hope your therapist, in addition to giving you labels
to describe your behavior and thinking,
is also good at giving you some tangible small tasks
or "homework" to do every week.
Very small steps.

Also, you mentioned that you have
some thought patterns from when you were a child:
"if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.
I can't imagine doing something half way."

So, with or without your therapist, I'm wondering
if you can manage to take/make some time (ha ha ha),
and sit down somewhere pleasant and quiet,
maybe a park or some place with a nice view --
DH or mom or MIL has the kids for a couple of hours
while you do this -- and THINK about this belief set you have.

Is there any part of that philosophy that isn't working for you?

Is there any part of that philosophy
that you might be willing to give up
if only as an experiment?

Can you make a list, in your mind, of what ways your life,
and your day-to-day routine and energy level, would be different
if you could, as an experiment, attempt to think in a way
different from the way you have in the past?

You said "I can't imagine . . . . "
Sure you can.
Look at some of your friends or relatives
and how they take care of their homes.
Can you imagine how they do that?
Or, perhaps, can you ask them?

About the OCD label that your therapist has given to you . . .
was it on a silver tray? Was there a fanfare of trumpets?

We live in a time when there have been marvelous advances
in the understanding of brain chemistry.

In older times, people with OCD and other unbalanced brain chemical problems had to just DEAL with it. There was no help other than forcing oneself to push beyond one's comfort zone.

But today, there ARE, in fact, some medications that help with OCD.
They don't cure your thought patterns, but they help you think more clearly.
Until you've experienced that, you probably can't imagine what that's like.
There's an old song (from a movie), THE WINDMILLS OF YOUR MIND.
Those of us with these kinds of brain chemistry problems
have minds that are like windmills.
Around and around, with no opportunity to step outside the confusion
and consider options.

Well, I see I've written an entire book again.
This happens.
Especially when I SHOULD be cleaning my house.
Bwa ha ha ha ha.

OH!! Also, look at WWW.FLYLADY.COM
Don't worry about polishing the kitchen sink
or putting on makeup or wearing shoes.
Just read and think about all that OTHER stuff on there.

Really.

Good luck!

S.

PS. Here's a potential experimental homework assignment.

You mentioned putting away laundry.
The kids have underwear.
Right?
See if you can put the kids' underwear into the drawer
just the way they come from the dryer.
No folding, no putting the new ones under the older ones.
Just PUT THEM INTO THE DRAWER and close the drawer.
Then make yourself a cup of tea (or whatever you like)
and congratulate yourself.

==================================

New addition, Friday September 3.

Well shucks.
I've been there myself.
I'm still there.
I know whereof I speak.
Really.

My suggestion with the laundry wasn't intended to be a fix-it solution.
it was a very simple teeny-tiny wee itty-bitty BABY STEP
to give you an opportunity to break out of your mindset
in a very small way, if only for a few moments.
To see what that felt like.

No. You didn't misinterpret yourself.
And you didn't misrepresent yourself.
I know exactly what you were describing.
And totally related to it.
Completely.

And, in my opinion, you can't change your entire mindset
all-of-a-sudden, like flipping a switch.

You can, however, try little tiny (etc.) baby steps
in which you try out some new strange behaviors
and see how that feels.

You can stay stuck where you are
or you can try some small experiments.

I don't remember the source for this but I've heard, and believe,
that trying a new behavior usually feels strange, uncomfortable.
But if you keep trying it for . . . . a few days? a few weeks?
it begins to feel less strange.

Repeating myself: I totally know what you mean by overwhelming.
If you were within a two-hour drive or less,
I would invite you to visit me and see my livingroom.
Maybe even my bathroom.
Fortunately, you live in Ohio.
Whew.

You are not alone.
I was the one who came up with the windmills analogy.
I learned to step away from the windmills
with the help of SSRI meds.
And then lots of counseling.

Until you can get free of the windmills,
it's very very hard to reprogram your inner voices.

Have you ever discussed the perfectionism stuff with your mother?

Once again I've written far more than I probably should have.
Also, ordinarily, I would have put this (kind of) self-exposure
into a private message.

HOWEVER, I felt it was important to clarify my earlier suggestions
out where everyone could see.
(And I like getting those flowers.)

I wasn't offering to help you with your laundry.
I was offering to help you with your LIFE.

S.

You really need to have a candid talk with your therapist. This is so obviously interfering with your daily life, and there for you lack having a life to live. There are medications that have been found to help with these compulsions and you really need an intervention here.

If your therapist isn't able to treat you correctly for this illness then please seek another one that specializes in this disorder.

I'm a perfectionist and my home is usually in decent order. I too think you need a new therapist. For starters, perfectionism isn't going to prevent you from putting away the laundry. Some crazy rationalization (i.e. I'm an all or nothing person) is preventing you from putting away your laundry.

Focus on the do, and less on the rest. Spot cleaning is easy. Pick one area of the kitchen, for instance, and spend 15 minutes cleaning it. Then, when you have another 15 minutes later in the day, do another spot. Don't think past this. Focus on the DO.

The secret to a clean house when you have little ones is to just do what you can when you have a chance. Doing a deep cleaning (i.e. moving furniture) isn't necessary every week. I use to do it weekly, now, with the little ones, doing it every 3-6 months is good enough.

Check out flylady.com. She may be a better help to you than your therapist.

ADDED: I use to have this problem too, back when I was diagnosed as being clinically depressed, yadda, yadda, yadda. I got rid of the therapist, and decided that as of tomorrow I was going to TRY to make things different. Like I said, I focus on the DO. You can get your brain to stop spinning if you focus on the DO. So, make a list, and start working on it. Get into a routine: on Mondays wash the sheets and dust one bedroom, on Tuesday scrub the tub. The only way to change is to change by DOING. It silences the brain and you quickly learn how to stop the racing mind. Also, get yourself on a decent sleep routine, wake at the same time every day and go to bed at the same time. Sleep is essential to overall well-being. But seriously, at some point you have to grow up and accept that failure is essential to living. So as my hubby would say, the only way to learn how to cook killer ribs is to cook them, so get a cooking and get over yourself already.

p.s. depression runs in my family, mom, grandma, aunts, uncles, a few cousins.

Realize that you cannot 'control' everything... but that you did your best... and that it is also healthy, to just not do everything sometimes.
Its okay.
Because NOTHING is all or nothing... or so absolute.

Good you have a Therapist.

My mother and grandmother had a great saying they passed down to me: "The family home should be clean enough to be healthy, and dirty enough to be happy."
In other words, if you spend so much time cleaning that your house is spotless, you aren't spending enough time with your kids.
:D

I think you need a new therapist, one who specializes in either OCD or anxiety disorders. You say you don't see this as a problem, and yet it is dramatically affecting your life. It is time to find someone who can help you deal with it, and your current therapist doesn't sound qualified. Good luck.

I struggle with the same all-or-nothing a little bit, but I also can't stand the chaos, so it helps me fight it (and I don't think I have it as bad you do).

It sounds like you might really benefit from cognitive behavior therapy. Psychotherapy looks at the reasons why you do the things you do, while a good cognitive behavior therapist will help you change your behaviors and doesn't focus as much on the "why" of it.

One thing that helps me is to set a timer (or 2, we have one on our stove and one on the microwave). I get done with putting the little one to bed around 9, and I set the timer for 10 or 15 minutes, and I choose a task. It might cleaning off the dining room table, or cleaning up in the kitchen. When the timer goes off, I quit. For you, if having a timer (or two) is not enough, you could set an alarm clock somewhere else in the house, and you'd have to leave the task in order to go turn it off--maybe that would work.

I tried the Fly Lady way, but since I couldn't keep up with it, I got frustrated. But it might work for you, as others have suggested.

What's the worst thing that would happen if your house were not totally perfect? Would your children get sick and die if the house were clean but not perfect? Would your husband point a finger at you? Would your relatives or neighbors talk about you behind your back? Would somebody else?

What if deciding to change your standards from perfection to happy cleanliness would NOT brand you as a loser?

Are you succeeding with your present system? You're writing that a lot of things are out of control. What if your goal were to keep the housework under control, not to keep it perfect?

There's a saying that "if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got." If a picky-perfectionistic system doesn't work, why not try something else? It's the smarter thing to do.

Unlearning and relearning can be tough, so get help if you need to. But think about all this first.

WOW, I could have written that 6 months ago. Then after surgery, two miscarriages, and bed rest which just got lifted 26 weeks into this pregnancy, my outlook changed a little. I can't do anything to my standards, not anymore, I'm still banned from lifting, bending and excessive standing (i can cook, walk to the bathroom, shower, move from room to room and that's about it). However I can't do dirt. I can not have clutter, or visible "stuff" on my floors, or dirty counters and stove......It completely stresses me out.

Which turned into a lot of yelling at my husband and kids, which is just as stressful and not good for me as anything else. And finally I gave up.

It sounds to me like you've given up, the only difference is because of how stressed messes make me, I've learned that a little cleaner is better than nothing. And that if stuff is kept up on, it doesn't take nearly as long.

I love flylady, and it helped me to develop a plan that I can help my family follow so that stuff gets done on a regular basis and in a timely fashion. currently we do a room a day, and my kids are completely responsible for their space. But for me at least, knowing that every monday my baseboards in the living room, the windows, blinds and curtians ect will be cleaned, makes it easier to spot clean the rest of the house on monday, because I know that tuesday is the kitchen, and wednesday the bathrooms ect.

I'm a perfectionist so not the same but some same tendencies. I have someone clean my house once every 2 weeks. That way even though the house isn's in order as much as I would like it I KNOW it will be totally done all at one time 2 x per month.
I've also gotten rid of a ton of stuff.(literally from one move to another we had 1 ton less stuff to move) There is less for me to move/organize/pick up etc.

Can you let your husband put away his own stuff and can you choose to let your kids put away their clothes? Think of it as teaching them responsibility not giving up on what you want. My daughters drawer looks like she stirred her clothes with a stick! But once every 2 weeks before the cleaners come we fold everything together. (not my way but hers).
Also we gave up eating out to have cleaning people b/c I was so much happier having help with the cleaning.

PS NOTHING beats a clean baseboard!

I am like that ...to an extent. I dont clean til 2am. I will say I was like that before I had kids when the house was just easier to clean for the 2 of us. However now I DO clean every day for about 1.5 or two hours. I take a room (or rooms) and do them really well.
What I do not do is I dont take out all the clothes and put the clean ones on the bottom. that is like saying the bottom ones are now dirty because they have been sitting in a drawer.
You say that you dont see anything wrong with it (your OCD) but the statement that you said "its exausting" is like you saying there is nothing wrong with being exausted.
I think every woman on here will say their house feels like its a disaster. i always feel like mine is. However, something to get me over that is I look at my house as a home. Its lived in and everyone is healthy and happy (even if I am not because its not clean...there could be worse things right). I do not clean on the weekends because since I work full time, those 2 days are MINE and my families and I am not going to let a structure get inbetween that.
Mondays- clean dust windex the rooms we dont live in (Formal dining room, basement and family room)
Tuesday clean kitchen, straighten the pantry, organize the tupperware, dishes, pots and pans and clean the floor
Wednesday clean the bedrooms, office and living room...that means dusting, strip sheets
Thursday- Vacuum entire house, do laundry and clean bathrooms (this day takes me a while)
I will tell you that I take off one day from work every 3 months and I will come home and ONLY Clean the deep stuff. That is time time I wash baseboards, the blinds clean the inside of the fridge and stove. Noone is to bother me that day while i clean and I usually am sooo excited to get it all cleaned up I start around 530 or 6 am.
Im not saying you have an issue with cleaning, but you need to get it organized..map it out. It makes it alot easier on yourself
Good luck
if that doesnt work, hire a cleaning service to do the basic cleaning but then you can then focus more on the drawers ( I still think pulling out all the clothes and refolding them is crazy...if you want to do that for you, then fine but let the other people Hubby and kids, do that for themselves)

go to www.flylady.net
talks about taking 15 minutes at a time
focusing on small things at a time
taking baby steps
doing it right the first time etc.
may help with your anxiety

You have got to reach a happy medium here somehow.
I am happy if my house is straight, and it wasn't that way often when our six children were here.
I did not have time to stress about it, my focus was always on my children, and/or my own mental health.
I wanted my home to be comfortable and it was.
Any housework will still be there to do after you and your family do something more important, or if you take the time to get the rest you need.
You did not say the ages of your children, but they should be helping you pick up the house before bed for example, even if they are little.
My daughter has three children, ages 1,3,and 6, and they help to at the least pick up their toys.
Make yourself clean ONLY one room at a time. If it is at night, turn off the lights in the other rooms and go to bed. Even better, leave the furniture moving and baseboards for another day. Train yourself to concentrate only on what you can see, and do deep cleaning at a later date.
Most men appreciate a straightened house when they return home, it does not have to be spotless.
If you don't take care of this now it will only get worse.
You need your rest so that you will be available to your family and not just a worn out shadow of yourself.
I hope you can reach that happy medium.

I know exactly how you feel. And like a few others on here, www.flylady.net helped me tremendously to learn to just do what I can and not obsess!

I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I like a clean and tidy home. BUT with a kid, it's not going to be "perfect" all of the time. I've accepted that. Before child, I did y house top to bottom once per week, did all laundry, etc. in O. weekend day. Then it pretty much stayed clean until the next week. No more. I had to adjust to doing O. room at a time, picking up but not "digging in" so much.
It really sounds to me like you might just have anxiety disorder/OCD as these people are generally perfectionists but as a result--the place goes to the dos because they cannot do it "completely right." Talk to your therapist about treatment options for OCD.

oh my gosh... this is totally me (to a lesser degree though)... either mega clean freak and doing a million things at once, or the total reverse opposite.

I think counseling may help a bit, help you focus on prioritizing and following a list. For example, light spot cleaning to be done on x day, and deep cleaning in this room for x day...

I think the flylady program would help you immensely!!

http://www.flylady.com/

I'm a spot cleaner so I can't relate. But I do have a few suggestions...

See if someone can watch the kids so you'll have time to clean the way you want to. Maybe they can visit Grandma or you can hire a mother's helper for one afternoon a week.

Focus on one room or task at a time. Say to yourself, today I'm going to focus on toys. I'll pick them all up, make sure they're clean, maybe rotate some of them. So if you start in the morning and do a little bit thoughout the day, focusing only on toys, then you can finish up after the kids go to bed and get into bed early yourself knowing that you completed your "assigned" task for the day.

Good luck.

I saw this mentioned in another post, but I just had to reiterate... go to www.flylady.net! Her program is just what you're asking us for, I think.

Hi Shaun,

Shira is absolutely right on absolutely everything she said. I don't have her experiences but I have my own I can share. I am from the other side of the marriage on this issue. I feel such compassion for you, just as I do for my husband. His OCD-like tendencies made themselves evident after a tour in Iraq. I think it was always there to a small degree, but I think it being combined with some PTSD has made his anxiety skyrocket and his compulsions worse. He feels powerless to stop it, powerless to change it because he is afraid to get help for fear of it ruining what is an incredible career and the thing that most identifies him - the military.

If you don't want to change therapists (this can be hard if you have developed a strong relationship and can't even fathom starting over) ask for a referral to someone - a therapist or psychiatrist - that you can see specifically and only for this issue.

Anxiety disorders seem to be like this giant whirlwind in your mind. It's going so fast and you want to get off, get out, slow down but it's going too fast to stop. Like a mental and emotional tilt-a-whirl. I know sometimes I get frustrated with my husband because it seems like we all get dragged onto that tilt-a-whirl with him from time to time, but I remind myself if this is what it feels like on the OUTSIDE, I can't imagine how it must feel on the inside.

Get a second opinion. If it was cancer you would. If it was heart disease you would. You would also see a specialist who treated those conditions. This is no different.

It's my prayer that above all things you have peace.

L.

I am a bit OCD or perhaps just neurotic about cleaning up. I hear you about the do it the right way the first time. Sometimes I feel crazy following my kid around picking up after her. I started telling my 5 year old at about age 2 that she can play with one thing at a time. Also, she can only play in certain areas, like her room or the living room. If she is done with a toy, she puts it away and gets a new one. I conditioned her so that I didn't have to walk into a disaster area and go into an OCD fit. Seriously, I get grumpy and anxious when there is a mess to clean up. Now that I have a 11 month old and 5 year old, there are more toys in the area to spread around. I keep them all contained in the room. And, my 5 year old has to help me clean up after both kids. Babies can't clean up, I cleaned up after her when she was a baby. My point, enlist help. I realize your oldest is in preschool, but start having them help out.
As for the cleaning craze, you mentally have to change, and you know that already. I love lists and charts. I have a calendar, I mark the specific days that I clean specific things. Set aside that time, and do the big long chores at given time. For example, I clean the living room (dust, vacuum, organize) for 2 hours on Mondays. Change the sheet, and do bedding laundry on Tuesdays. Etc.
Sit down and give yourself time to organize the chores on paper. Once you figure out a schedule, the anxiety should subside. If you notice something needs attention, look at the calendar and see when you are scheduled to clean that area. Rearrange if necessary. I sometime have time to do extra cleaning, so I add it to the calendar. Keep track of it and you will see how often you actually do those chores. Also, after you have a months worth of chores, talk with your husband, enlist his help with one chore he doesn't despise. My husband will vacuum for me if I pick up all of the small movable furniture, but he REFUSES to do dishes or clean the bathroom.
Hope that helps!