ADD OR ADHD Issues with 3Rd Grader

My recommendation is to stick with the no TV, dvds or video games, lots of outdoor time (hopefully observing, not just walking, playing, but try some intellectual/science, and art activities) and music. If there is a Roots and Shoots club near you that might be great for him. Music is great for building attention span and developing intellectual and math skills.

And be patient. It may take months to level out.

I hear this often, and it is so sad. There is no reason to wait until a certian grade level to look for a brain disfunction that makes a child miserable, and when typical dicipline fails because the issue is within the processing of the child themselves, meaning that they are bright enough to know right from wrong, want to comply, but lack the ablity to inhibit an action or apply known behavior to themselves, it is time to seek out an evaluation that will identify which processess are effected by dysfunction.

This is a real medical issue, and no ammount of punishment is going to make it better, but the continued deliberate embarrasment will cause secondary issues that will complicate his treatment, which is just about where you are, because he is at the "I don't care" phase, which could not be further from the truth. It is a common response, to say "I meant to do that" or "I choose to be bad" instead of, "I have no idea what to do to fix this, and nothing I try works, and it makes me sad and miserable..."

ADHD is a brain disfunction, but it may be one of a few other issues too, and there is no way to know until you get an evaluation. There are several ways you can go. Developmental Pediatricians are great resources and you will not have to have any ancellary evaluations, meaning everything would be evaluated, but they do take a very long time to get into see. Psychiatrists, in conjunction with an evaluation from a Neuropsycholgist, with ancellary Neurological, speech and language, OT and developmental otpomitry might be faster. Given his issue making noises, I would definetly included Nuerologist, because this sounds like more than a simple ADHD to me.

You need to know what is going on, on a private level, completly and totally on your own, so that you know as much or more than the school does about your son and what he needs. The school should also evaluate him. Write to the school and request that he get an evaluation for special education services, and list his issues. The teacher has been trying for some time to manage in class, and it is not working, so note this in your written request. He needs a behavior plan that has only positive behavioral supports and interventions as soon as possible, and he can get this through IDEA services at school. Each area that is a problem for him in school should be addressed by an IEP.

Log on to www.wrightslaw.com and learn about referal, identification, evalaution, and behavior plans. This will be very helpful to you.

Get some appointments this morning, and if it were me, I would restore his privalages until you have a diagnosis. It is kind of like punihsing a child with a congenital urinary tract issue for wetting himself. I bet he can't help what is going on until you get him the treatment that he needs, and the punishment is doing more harm than good.

M.

A couple of things to clarify, school evaluations and services do not cause children to have bad school experiences, and lables are only needed so that schools get money to educate children, they are not harmful in the least, and parents who fully educate themselves about advocacy do very well in making school experiences with IDEA services positive and successful. There is no need to fear, or delay, any involvement with schools evalautions for fear of setting a bad tone for the rest of his school years. If you do not act soon, that is going to happen anyway, and you will not like the outcome.

Secondly, what you are describing is an organic medical issue, so many people misunderstand ADHD, and that is even sayting that this is ADHD, and nobody knows, and that would not be what pops into my head first, but to say this again, as I have many, many times on this site, a child with ADHD can concentrate on some things, ADHD's diagnostic criteria does not state that a person with ADHD can't concentrate on anything at all. Quite the contrary is true. People with ADHD have a very specific pattern of processing skills that they cannot seem to manage reliably, and some people with ADHD have good days where they manage well, and it is a mistake to use good days or incomplete disfunction as a sign that someone dould not have this disorder. It just does not work that way. Kind of like saying that someone who is not in seirzure 24 hours a day cannot have epilepsy. The brain is an amayzing organ, and we find ways to use parts of our brain that were not meant to process an effected type of information and cope in that way for a great many functions. Speech can be relearned by stroke victims in areas of the brain that they have never used before, and so it is for people with ADHD, they get assistance from medications that make the basic chemical disfunction symptom better, and they get therapies that help them find ways to by pass their deficits and find a more typical function. It is important for children to be diagnosed and get treatment that helps them as early as possible, because they need a great deal of training to learn how to accomodate their information processing issues, which is what this boils down to. When left untreated, they develop depression, anxiety, and oppostional behaviors that then must be dealt with in addition to all the underlying processing issues, and this can become a snow ball rolling out of control in fewer years than you would think.

Schools have thier place, but they do not treat kids with medical issues, and that is what this is. They accomodate and educate children with medical issues that effect the way they learn, and they are required to educucate children such that they are functional, but they are not required to maximize children's potential. All parents want to maximize their children's potential, and that is why they should always know more about what their children need educationally than any school does when their child has a medical issue that causes educational needs. That is what is going on here, so get both private and public evaluations, and learn to advocate. MR

What Martha R. said. If *nothing* is working, it means it's something he cannot control consciously. He, very possibly, needs more help than just negative reinforcement. Please re-read what Martha R. said and follow her suggestions.

Obviously the teacher has had no training in teaching such brilliant children.
Punishment DOES NOT WORK.
All these letter names developmental problems run in our family of exceptionally intelligent over achievers. I self discovered dance as a way through. It saved me. I used gymnastics three times a week for one of my daughters, she used Tai Kwan Do for her son. Self discipline is what it takes and the child does not know she/he is being taught that with the physical skills they are acquiring.
TEAM SPORTS IS NO ANSWER. Tennis is but not soccer. Once the child develops the inner discipline they can be part of team sports if they wish.
Music lessons help too. This is what my niece is using for her two children. Different instruments are good for different personalities. One has taken up the piano with a passion. The other is glued to the clarinet.
My father taught me how to paint when I was 8 years old and everything moved along from there. I did metal sculpture as a young women and now cloth art is my hobby.
Try to befriend your son. He is withdrawing due to the oppression you are leveling against him at home. He is not like you. He has a different drummer inside. He is creative.
My youngest grandchild has learned how to make friends and he is at the top of his class and is still from time to time disruptive. He is also in 3rd grade but his behavior has improved markedly with these methods.
To be honest with you no one in our family has ever served in the military in 5 generations in this country. We can't do that as our lives are rich in innovation and inventiveness and creativity. We think for ourselves. We are published authors, judges, university professors, therapists, healers but not conformists.
Go with who you've got and not society's narrow channeled system.
Your son can be great or one of the throw away children we see everyday.
If you love him take all sugar out of your family's diet. It's tough but that is what I did to get my kids energies channeled so they could go to school and live in society. We absolutely never ate fast food. I cooked an organic diet and even made my own granola. Believe me it was worth it.
I wish you luck and fortitude. And, one other thing breathe deeply.

I am in agreement with Marci. I too have a boy in 3rd grade and he is very hyper and constantly does stuff to get attention (positive or negative he doesnt care). While I understand that teachers dont want to deal with a kid like this, I really dont care because my son is mostly just stubborn as can be. If he doesnt want to do his work, he wont...no amount of punishing him by making him sit out recess changes his mind plus thats the same punishment for not staying in his seat or being quiet which frankly is not the best punishment for a child like him. Once his dad spanks him, he straightens up and can sit still for hours doing the work. At least for ours its a matter of wanting to do it or not and realizing that they wont "make" him do anything.
I hope you find answers. I know it is stressful to have a child that wont be the traditional robot they want and the embarassement of it. But this shall pass with time.
Next year we hope to put ours in some sort of martial arts because I hear it helps hyper kids plus he isnt into sports and needs to be put in something since he does get bored easily and hates to play by himself. I plan to just keep putting him in things to see if he gets a passion for something other than being hyper ;)

Also the kids diet can make things worse. Most things with anything artificial or colors is known to cause reactions that would be considered "add/adhd." I know once I took out all of that, he acts better and as soon as he gets anything artificial or with dyes he runs around like a crazed person.

Well, he's in the third grade so it's time to have him tested. Sounds very much like he could have ADD or ADHD. He could have other difficulties as well. Take him to his pediatrician and ask for an evaluation or ask the school district to do one.

Federal law requires all school districts to provide an evaluation and treatment for all disorders that interfere with learning. My granddaughter was evaluated thru the school district and found to have ADHD. She is now on medication and doing much better in school. She has an IEP (Individual Education P.....) which gives her extra help with writing.

My grandson has more complex issues, was evaluated thru the school district and provided several services but still has major issues. The school district did not find he had ADD or ADHD. His mother took him to his pediatrician who evaluated him for both and found that he does. He's now on medication and doing some better. However, he still has major difficulties and the pediatrician referred him to a developmental pediatrician who is directing a more thorough and complex evaluation.

The school district program is administered thru an office separate from the school, tho the school should be able to give you the number. In OR it's called the Multnomah County Intermediate School District Office.

I urge you to start getting an evaluation RAW. The longer he goes having difficulty the harder it's going to be for him to adjust and learn in a school setting. He may not have ADD/ADHD. You need to know that so that you can look in another direction for getting the help he needs to succeed in school.

Taking everything away from him won't help him focus at school. You need to find out what will help him focus. Have you talked with his teacher. What suggestions does she have? Does he get enough sleep and nutritious food? Are you praising him for what he does do right? A child needs many more words of praise than criticism. I think it's 12 positive statements for every negative statement we have to give our child.

Taking away things at home has not connection in his mind to what is happening at school. And the result is negative feelings and discouragement. Try rewarding good behavior instead. If he's consistently getting his name on the board 5 times a day, then reward him if it's only 3 or 4 times. Make the reward something inexpensive. Temporary tatoos work for my grandchildren. Perhaps an extra cookie as an after school snack. Make a chart so that you and he can see progress.
I suggest that watching TV can be earned and can be a reward. Instead of taking TV away, add 30 minutes TV to the evening. It makes since to have no TV until he's earned it. TV should be a privilege, in my opinion.

As an ex K-1 teacher, I have a few questions:

Is he embarrassed by his behavior? Either by his peers or you?

Does he have any social peer group at all?

If he is a social out cast and not embarrassed by his behavior I think you should get him assessed as soon as possible. And if he is embarrassed and feels like a social out cast the same goes.

I think third grade is too late by the way. Some teachers say that because of academic reasons. I am concerned due to social peer group reasons. Children by the age of 8 should be in a group of some sort. If not by that age, it is really hard to break into a group.

Write a letter to the teacher requesting an evaluation by the school psychologist because you are concerned about [insert specific academic and behavioral concerns here]. That will get the ball rolling.

Well, from the little bit of information you gave, I wouldn't necessarily worry yet. With add or adhd, his mind would be scattered and racing from thought to thought so that he couldn't focus if he wanted to.

The key is, what style of teaching does this teacher do? Does she make the kids sit in their chair quietly for hours doing stuff that is either too easy or too hard? Does the school let them have recess or PE very much? Schools don't do those as often as they used to. I think your son could very well be bored and the class too easy. You may want to try switching classrooms.

I have a very, very bright nephew (I'm not just saying that) that was always in trouble when he was around that age. His name was always on the chalk board because he was noisey and wild. He was the kid whose chair was pushed up against the teacher's desk. This kid is the type who always has to be busy with something or he won't sit still. He does not have ADHD. He has high energy. At home, he was always kind of obnoxious to his mom and brothers because he always had to have a project to do and always wanted someone to pay attention to him. But he fit in socially, had lots of friends, etc.

So maybe just ask yourself these questions about your son. What is he like at home? What is he like at church or with his friends? Is he always in trouble for the same stuff? How does he act when he is really interested in something or when he is being challenged to learn something difficult. Does he get really naughty or does he do really well? That should really help you narrow down what is going on.

To add, boys are so different from girls. At his age, it is normal to not care if his teacher is pleased or not, and normal to not do his work if it is repetitive or busywork, normal to be really wiggly.

My son is 4 and has been diagnosed by a number of specialists as highly ADHD and Sensory Processing as a piggy back ... Most of the answers to the questions that help diagnose are found around 3rd grade, but do you really want him to dislike school when it has only just begun?

And ADHD/ADD is underactivity of the ceribral vortex not over activity as many mis understand.

Sounds like he is bored in class and is trying to busy himself. Have them test him, maybe his is beyond the work they are doing and needs more of a challenge. Or maybe he isn't bored but learns different and she may need to get creative.

I'm seconding Martha R. said. She nailed it.

My oldest is ADHD. When I finally hopped off my high horse and realized that ADD wasn't just a cop out for bad parenting, we had my son tested (I learn the hardway).

My son is 16 now. He refuses to take meds for his ADHD, even though they helped in the past. He isn't a straight A student, but he has a great personality and he's trying to work on focusing longer.

We discovered that regular exercise works well. As long as he runs a few miles each day he can focus enough to get through the day at school. I'm not saying exercise is a wonder cure, I'm just saying it helps just enough (for my son). We used to this tactic at home when he was younger, too. If he was uncontrollable, we would send him to run laps around the house. He would come in a bit more hyper, but within five minutes he would start to unwind and have some ability to listen and stop climbing the walls.

I'm just putting that out there. It's something that works for us (it's not the best solution, but it works well enough).

I'm sure you and your doctor will come up with a plan. My son still blurts out in class (not nearly as often anymore), but he has a big heart and tries to make people happy when he does. One of his teachers' favorite songs is Strawberry Fields...my son will sing it when he comes into the room. He gets his blurting out of the way and it's done in a positive way as well.

Guess my post doesn't really help much. I was aiming to give a little encouragement. When my son was diagnosed, all I heard were horror stories, a little positive would have gone a long way.

I have a 4th grader whom I homeschool and he too is all over the place. He can spit back Narnia, Star Wars, Harry Potter, you name it, he is always some character slaying something.
He tends to get more this way, mine literally swings form the rafters in the basement, when he is bored or the work is "stupid". or I have to work with his sister. Mine is not ADD.
I would talk to the teacher and see if he is bored. See if he can have more challenging work. My little guy would go into the 5th grade classroom for math because the 2nd grade teacher didn't have the materials in her class for him.
If you have him evaluated realize that the drug companes, many teachers and psychiatric communities lean towards medicating chilren to get them to behave.
Try a positive reinforcement at home, something easy. We did chocolate milk at dinner.
If he is truly ADD/ADHD then he doesn' need all the distractions in his room. My oldest had his dresser, a bookshelf, Lego's and a Gameboy. Too much stuff made him more nuts, he is ADHD.

Hello, get him tested by a reputible psycologist. Dr Betty Jones in Bellevue is an awesome doctor who has been around for many years and understands the difference between a social issue vs. a physical issue. There is definitely a place for certain meds that help kids focus and get them to pay attention in class. Taking things away isn't always the solution. As a parent it is up to you to take the initiative and be your childs advocate. So NOT leave it to the schools. There are too many children for any one teacher to figure out. Good luck

From what I understand, third grade is generally when learning related issues tend to rear their heads. At that point children start to read to learn (rather than learn to read as in the earlier grades).

Before I proceeded any further, I would push for a comprehensive psycho-educational evaluation. I would prefer that it be done privately (I don't want a school to know more about my child than I do), but sometimes circumstances dictate otherwise (i.e., expense).

I would be very careful how I handle this situation. What you do now may set the tone for the rest of his school years.

Good luck.