2Nd Bad Parent or Bad Kids?

Here's the way I look at it...take it how you will....
3 young adults, 24, 21, and 18 are having some SERIOUS trouble adjusting. They ALL have a common denominator...you.

Someone once shared a quote with me and I don't remember the author:

"Guilt is Anger We Don't Feel We Have A Right To."

I'm sorry, S., it's difficult to know what kind of response you're looking for, for either question.

Would you like a little empathy from other mothers because your three adult children have turned out awful although you feel you've been a "stable parent"? While there are red flags all over BOTH posts that suggest your parenting techniques DO have a lot to do with that?

Nobody here WANTS to be mean and say you're a terrible mother, but it's almost like you WANT us to.

Obviously it is WAAAY too late for us to offer you tips on how you MIGHT'VE done something, things you could CHANGE for a better outcome.....

At the risk of sounding dramatic, I think your story is tragically sad. I wish you had sought help (lots and LOTS of help of all kinds!) 20 years ago.

So really, all I can say NOW, is maybe put it behind you? Start fresh with your life and your new man and move on? Allow your children to move on as well?

I wish you the best, and your children too, especially. Perhaps you'll someday seek professional help and start at the beginning? Maybe they will too, before starting their own dysfunctional families and continuing the cycle.

What else is there to be done?

:(

I responded to your other post, and my opinion hasn't changed: You are the common denominator.

And, to add to that, your priorities were clearly screwed up during your kids' childhoods.

You basically told your kids that you don't accept them. Skipping birthdays and Christmas? Those days aren't about "rewarding behavior," they're about reminding us all that FAMILY love and accepts us no matter what.

You might have provided for those kids financially, but you did not provide for them emotionally.

The reason your kids are so messed up? Because you didn't give them the two things kids need the very most when they are growing up: Love and acceptance.

Don't get confused; acceptance doesn't mean putting up with unacceptable behavior....but you have to realize, each of those situations and how you dealt with them shaped the future. YOU shaped their futures by choosing to punish, react, or discipline them in a certain way.

Now you're looking to place the blame and your guilt elsewhere. But you can't. Your choices then molded THEIR choices today. You don't get to wash your hands of it. You SHOULD feel guilty for it...and you should try to do something to help yourself and your relationship with your kids.

Get counseling. Find a church. Pray for God's forgiveness and healing. Forgive yourself and forgive your kids...and ask for God's guidance to move forward in a HEALTHY way, not an angry, hurtful way.

I'm sorry my post sounds mean....but don't be one of those old ladies years from now who are angry and hateful. Find the love you have in your heart for your kids and ask God to guide you on how to show it. Live the rest of your life with OPEN arms and wise counsel.

God bless you.

ETA: Just to clarify, God doesn't love us because of what we've done, or because of what we will do...he loves us JUST for us. He loves me for me. THAT is what acceptance means, and that is the way parents are supposed to love their kids.

Your kids DO need to get their acts together. But they need God and you to do that. It sounds like you need God too. God loves you, not despite you mistakes, but because of how they have shaped you. I hope that you can accept His love and learn to love your kids in a godly way.

My last, I promise. What was your childhood like? I was discussing this with friends and I said that the thing that that strikes me is how easily you separate yourself from the role of mom. You don't seem to have any "mom guilt". You lay out your life like a script and you feel you played your role well. I say this because if you never bonded (attachment) with your kids that would explain a lot. That your mother and father never bonded with you would explain why it seems normal. If that is the case, you need to seek help for you and your kids or the pattern will repeat. You can't change the past but you can heal the future.

Is there a history of mental illness somewhere in your family or their father's? I assume that's 3 men, right? You're right it doesn't sound like you were very unstable or a bad mother but odds also seem low that 100% of children in a family turn out poorly and there's no fault of the parents - unless there's a genetic driver. Maybe accept some blame and move on, see what you can do from here...

I'm sorry, but I know I must have missed something..I'm really confused as to how to give you a response to your question..Genetics and environmental factors play a huge role in how we are parents, and how our children turn out.

I think that mistakes that you make in your own life, should serve as a lesson of responsibility for how well you parent your own children.

In any case, from reading your SWH, I can tell you that I am not all that surprised that you are even in this situation. It's erratic at best. I don't find this to be a stable situation at all. It's quite the opposite.

What Ina G. said. You're not an "unstable" parent - but the description of your children's life shows a LOT of instability as young children. You're not seeing the forest for the trees. Yes, you did good things, BUT, the foundation was shaky for years - you didn't see it then, and you're not seeing it now. What you are doing now re. stability is good, but it doesn't change the past. Until you can stop and look at the first 10 years or so of their lives and see how NOT stable they were, and admit that your choices THEN have had an impact on how your children deal with the world, you will not understand what happened. You will not understand how to deal with it, and you won't understand how to fix it. Stop pretending everything was fine and it's all their fault. Stability now has NOTHING to do with it.

S., I don't think it's a matter of bad parents at all. As parents we are all very far from perfect but really, once kids reach a certain age (I believe it is somewhere around 12 - 13), they very clearly know right from wrong. At that point, they either have the desire for a successful life or the desires of this world become a driving force in the choices they make. So, you were divorced. So is more than half the population, not an excuse for criminal behavior. So they got some spankings, again, never an excuse for stealing, selling drugs, etc. At some point, we all have to make the decision to care about others (often times more than ourselves) and show common kindness to those around us. Sounds like your kids have chosen self over others, will make for a very destructive and bitter life.
I've seen this played out in my own family significantly. My grandparents had three children...my mother, my aunt and my uncle. My mother and my uncle, well let's just say they didn't bring much joy to their family for much of the same reasons you have listed. My aunt, though, did it all right. She is a devout Christian and has been married to her husband for over 30 years, has three adult kids. Again, not a perfect parent but she did everything most of us would consider right in raising her kids. All three of them have brought pure heartache into her life. They were raised better than that but unfortunately wanted something much different for themselves than their parents did.
I think you have done all you can do. Your kids are adults now and they have to either make good choices for their lives or deal with the consequences. Right now, one consequence may be that you have to step away from their destructive behavior but you have to make sure you can live with whatever comes out of that. So sorry, I can only imagine how broken hearted you are.

Oh, and before I hit send, I just want to say that my husband is also a good example of a not so stable parent but a kid who CHOSE to not use it as an excuse. His mother was 17 when he was born in 1970. Raised him around abusive men, and in bars and even took him on the road with a traveling carnival when he was 5 or 6. As a teenager, he was allowed to run wild and I will admit he did underage drink, smoke pot and have sex. But just before his 18th birthday and just before my 16th, by divine design, our paths crossed at our jobs in the local grocery store. My husband made the decision at that point to forgo all that stuff and commit himself to a better life. We married two years later, went through and paid for our own college degrees together at Auburn University and have three kids (14, 7,7). He has a very sucessful career and we live very comfortably. Not saying any of that to brag, just pointing out that it does (in my opinion) boil down to what each individual desires for his life. If you desire chaos, you will have it. If you desire peace, that's not too hard to find.

Hope with time and maturity, your kids will turn this around before it's too late.

Me,me,me,I, I, I People? The bottom line is, some people who are ideal parents, try to do everything right, etc.etc., have some great kids, good kids and disaster kids. Some people who do everything wrong have kids who turn out to be succesful beyond their wildest dreams.

We work as hard as we can and sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't.

For me, I just keep my faith, keep praying and do the best I can. I have a pretty good son...but he, like me, is far from perfect.

So give yourself a break!

Your question is very odd, in that the structure has no real questions in it. Did you edit the original question in order to respond to people by taking out the original question rather than simply add to it?

By "functioning" addict, do you mean that they're not currently succumbing to the addiction? Because honestly if someone is currently engaged in abusing alcohol or drugs then they're not functioning well. They're still abusing their substance of choice, and that makes them an unfit parent especially if they use when they're responsible for children/minors and in the presence of other actual functioning adults.

If your fiancé is also an addict, then why in the world did you introduce that back into your childrens lives willingly? If you didn't know at first then why did you allow him to stick around and be a father figure?

Your "question" is vague, and so is the background information you chose to include. I'm sorry. Maybe it's my lack of coffee today.

EDIT: Whew, so it's not lack of coffee. You did some serious editing of crucial information. I sound like a misinformed whacknut because, well, you did some serious editing.

Do you have a question for us? I think if you are asking us to judge where you or you or your kids went wrong, you are going to feel judged by us no matter what we answer. All people make mistakes, especially with the people they live with. I agree with Jill's last sentence.

Both. You were responsible for their well-being (physical and emotional) when they were children. Obviously, something was wrong in the childhoods - that's your fault along with their respective fathers.

As adults, they are responsible for themselves, but since they are obviously stunted emotionally, they'll keep blaming you.

I think you all just need to move on with your lives.

I can always accept responsibility. I remember years ago when my oldest was around 14, a friend of mine had a son that was 16 and staring an extreme amount of bad behavior. And I told her my kids will never do that I will raise the right and I have raised them right. She said to me "until you walk in my shoes you don't know". Today I stand corrected and she was right. To see these responses was great today. It let me know that these are the reason kids act the way they do. That its parents think that it's ok to start illegal disrespectful behavior because they blamed themselves (me)In looking to some answers I called my ex husband who helped raise my kids. He told me he just talked to my 21 year old about a month ago. He said my son told him that he wished he listened to him. So we laughed. I asked him did we beat the kids and I forgot? Again he laughed. He said no S. we didn't. I asked did we not try our best. He reminded me of the football games he would organize for the neighbor and monthly family dinners I organized. We talked about when they started stealing from me, him, and from their father. And yes I stand firm I don't accept it. He even laughed cause divorced him cause I thought he was being too harsh on my boys. He told me they had turned to gangs and I didn't believe him. Unstable I stand and say no! Yes I've been married twice but unstable no. My second husband and I are still friends. They still call him Pops My children have only known two men in my life how many single moms can say that? They have no excuse. My children and I are like night and day and we should move on. Some say I should give them love and acceptance. Well I can't and will not accept using drugs, stealing, gang activity and guns. So if not accepting this behavior makes it my fault. Then I accept! It's all my fault. (Joking). What is my fault was not getting them counseling When I saw the signs when they were younger.

I did not read all of the responses. But this situation with your children must be very painful for you. I have no idea if this is "your fault" or not. As someone said, you can do everything right and the kids turn out to be a disaster anyway. They are humans with free will and you can't change that. And some parents are horrible, yet they manage to have their children turn out to be successful and on the right track. I don't think, at this point, beating yourself up over any of it will help. Unless you're planning in raising more kids, I would just put all of this behind you. Pray for your kids and just make sure you don't enable them (easier said than done, right?) I hope you find peace and I hope they straighten themselves out.

i answerd your other question so ill say something on this one too .. as far as your boys go, iv seen plenty of people with the greatest parents turn into drug addicts, some turn their lives around, some dont. (maybe theres somethign in the water here in jersey - just kidding).. im still confused about what happened with your daughter that you kicked her out though?

Okay, let's say you're right. You're a good mom. They're bad kids. Now, what are you going to do to help these bad kids of yours?

Because, bad kids need more than good moms. They need selfless super-moms. And you are the only person who can play that role.

People who've made bad choices, people who've been caught up in the criminal justice system, they can still turn their lives around. Sometimes this takes years and years. Wild young men have to get all the hormones and impulsiveness out of their system, and they can turn into wise, regretful middle-aged men who can go out there and do a world of good. But for that to happen, they need a light at the end of the tunnel. You -- you, and only you -- can be that light.

I have no interest in arguing over whether you've been a good mom or not. The past is past. What's important is the future. Your kids need you to take all that goodness and be better than good -- to be a fierce, forgiving, unflinching advocate for them. Apparently, someone up there thought you were up for a challenge. Now is your time to rise up and meet it.