15Yo Pregnant in 4H Club...

"Bad" examples are everywhere. I think the worst example of all would be the adults campaigning to kick the girl out of 4H.

I am sad that the other parents are so fearful and close minded. Just because this girl is pregnant doesn't mean that the other kids in the group are going to think, "Hmmmm, I wish I was knocked up at age 15" and go out looking for sex. What are they afraid of? A 4H orgy? I know I am being over the top harsh about this, but REALLY, what do people really think will happen if they allow the girl to participate?

I really hope that she isn't treated harshly. She is still just a teenager. Just because she made an adult choice doesn't disqualify her from childhood.

Tell them it's none of their business and that regardless of the choices that she AND the father of the baby made, it has no bearing on 4H. Why on earth would anyone want to make a difficult situation worse by ostracizing this poor girl??

Shame on them.

They do know pregnancy isn't contagious, right?

I don't think pregnancy is contagious.
She'll go on her own when her responsibilities leave her little time for activities beyond Mommy and Me classes.

I wonder how differently those other parents would feel if one of their children made a similar mistake, and they and their children were being shunned and shut out by their friends and neighbors? Why don't you ask them that, turn it around and talk about having some compassion rather than passing judgement.
Of COURSE no one wants their teenager to become pregnant, or get their girlfriend pregnant, but if it happens I don't think that's any reason to banish them from ANYthing. That's just cruel :(

Is the boy who knocked her up in 4H as well? Would you kick HIM out?

Maybe you should make a rule that anyone engaging in sexual intercourse should be kicked out of 4H.

Be careful mama, it could easily happen to your kids, regardless of your 'teaching moments'.

So... She's 15 and pregnant. I assume that she is going to keep the baby.

She is giving up A LOT already (Friends, extra-curricular activities at school, boyfriends, future parties) and now you want to give up MORE?

I was in 4-H as soon as I was old enough to enroll. Head, heart, hands, and health. Kicking out a 15 year old because she made a stupid choice is NOT the 4-H that I remember.

I don't understand the concern. I would imagine the group has rules set up and I would also imagine that being pregnant isn't against the rules.

At my older daughter's school one of the girls got pregnant her senior year. This is an all girls, Catholic, top five percent high school. She didn't get pregnant because she was stupid, she didn't get pregnant because she was less than excellent, she didn't get pregnant because she wasn't productive or helpful. She got pregnant because she made a mistake.

Not against that high school's rules either. Now if her grades went in the crapper or she was trying to burn down the school they had rules in place to kick her out. As it was she graduated with a 3.9 went on to college where her classmates that attended the same college covered baby duty while she was in class, she went on to get her degree in organizational psychology.

What a failure, all because she got pregnant!

If you don't get my point I will spell it out, getting pregnant isn't against anything 4H, what she does going forward may. Still I would think that since she is in such a program she will show everyone how she can still be everything 4H stands for with the support system it claims to provide.

So why exactly do these parents think that support system should be removed?

I see keeping her in the program as a good thing. It provides her with the support she very much needs and it provides the other parents with a good opportunity to teach their daughters many things. To teach them not only about sex and the consequences of sexual activity but also how to manage when the negatives happen in our lives. The lessons the girls learn will help them in ways unrelated to the teen pregnancy.

The first lesson that I see as being important is how to be a friend and support someone when they've made a poor choice and are suffering the consequences of that choice. Along with that is the lesson that our choices do have consequences; many of them painful and long term.

I think more pregnant teens would successfully make this difficult journey, if adults weren't so cruel. What would they do if it were THEIR child? Would they want her kicked out? I'll bet it could never be their sweetie, right? Guess what, statistics say it could just as easily be their girl. They need to suck it up, talk with their kids, and allow this girl to accomplish something, before her entire life shifts. It's not up to you, to decide for HER when her "childhood" activities come to an end. Should mothers (no matter the age) not be able to accomplish things they've worked for?

This is a girl who has made a bad choice....or maybe a good choice she she has decided NOT to abort. I don't know.
But, what I do know is that she is a YOUTH and she NEEDS 4H now more than ever. It is about her learning how to exceed, be helpful, and productive.
You tell those other parents, "there by the grace of God" because I am sure her parents were stunned. She needs her community now more than ever.
It is not setting a bad example, it was a mistake. Our kids make mistakes all the time and we would not kick them out of clubs. I know many kids that are in 4H that have smoked pot. Illegal. I know kids that say bad words. I know kids that bully, and make fun of, and are actually not all that great. We don't kick all of those kids out, this girl shouldn't be kicked out either.
L.

I see you're concerned with the message that you're sending children by keeping this girl in your group, but I would ask this: What message are you sending if you ask her to leave (or never ask, but pressure her to leave and make her feel unwelcome)?

Mistakes shape our lives. It's important that children know that. Answer their questions honestly. They need to see and know that our choices have consequences. And they also need to see that, when we screw up, we have to make adjustments in order to be successful. And sometimes we need help to do that.

Be there for this girl who is going to need ADULT moms in her life to guide and shape her to be a good parent. She needs a mentor. 4-H is full of them. A supportive group like 4-H shouldn't just ditch a child because she screwed up. They should rally around her and give good advice, help prepare her, and set her up for success. Last I checked, 4-H isn't just about farm animals.

I think it is great that she still wants to be involved. I also think the 4H group could be a huge support system for her and her family.

Yes, you should use this life experience as a teachable moment...but is she "worse" than anyone else? No! Did she make a poor choice? Yes. Is she dealing with the very visible and life-changing consequences of that choice? Yes. Is she the ONLY teen (in the group, school, town) that has made that same poor choice? I highly doubt it! The others may be dealing with the consequences in different ways...emotional issues, STDs, possibly even abortion...and you may never know it. Just because you can see her consequence/ hurt/ etc does not mean she is bad or less than others or even alone.

Be there for her. She needs support and good influences now...not shunning.

What better example could there be than someone who is able to push through and exceed during what is likely to be a challenging time in their life? I'd certainly allow her the opportunity to try!

Whether her childhood is coming to an end yet or not depends greatly on the choices she makes once the child is born - will she be placing the child for adoption or keeping the child, will her parents be the primary caregivers or will she assume that responsibility.

I suspect her time with 4H is coming to an end either way (unless she chooses adoption). If she keeps the baby and tries to continue in school, she really won't have time for anything else.

I think the best thing you can do is support her. I can't see any way that she is going to have a negative impact on the other kids in 4H, except to discourage them for making the same choices.

Be there for her. She's going to need all the support she can get.

Hello T.. My kids (now 13 and 17) have been actively involved in 4H for years.
It is correct that asking the girl to leave 4H would be considered discrimination. She is still of age to be a youth participant and there is no rule against teen sex in 4H. Her having sex and being pregnant does not automatically contradict her ability and commitment to pledge her head for clearer thinking, her heart for greater loyalty, her hands for larger service and her health for better living, for her club, her community, her country and her world.
Setting a bad example? Sounds like some parents are having their first experience with teen sex. They'll find out that teens get pregnant and their kids will be exposed to it sometime - if not a club member, then a cousin, neighbor, babysitter, tutor, the girl who rings you up at the supermarket. It's okay for kids to know that teens have sex and get pregnant sometimes, even if their parents are uncomfortable with them knowing about it. It's a good time for the parents to bring up with their children that this is not something they are encouraging their own children to do and that it would be very disappointing to the parents if they did this. I feel like it's actually a very good example - many kids, once they see the struggles that a teenager faces with a baby, are naturally discouraged from having one themselves.
As for how to address it with the parents, simply let them know that it's a corporate decision, and that it would be discrimination to ask the girl to leave 4H. Her parents paid her membership and she has not broken any club rules. Just as the parents cannot force their next door neighbors to move just because their high schooler gets pregnant.

i would just tell them exactly how it is.. that you share their concerns but that after all she is still a child and you cant just throw her out of the group because it would be descrimination. Advise the parents to do exxactly what you did with your kids, using it as a teaching opportunity

Wondering if any of you 4 H-ers are Christian? Because if you were you would know that one of the most important things that the Lord asks of us is not to judge one another. What you are all doing to this poor girl sure as heck sounds like this to me.

To tell you the truth, her health is no ones business.

She is having the baby.. Isn't that what these people would want? or should she have aborted so the people in 4H would not be able to judge her for being pregnant?

Teach your own children not to ever judge or second guess anyone. Instead as a community, we support each other as best we can.

She is pregnant not a criminal.

We used to always talk about choices that we make and what the results could be. To take ownership of our choices, because they can have an impact on our lives forever.

We never know what may come so we need to be very careful about our behaviors.

This is a fine time to teach your girls (and adults) about compassion and sensitivity. What they need to realize is that this could happen to them at any time.

The girl who got pregnant needs support, not discrimination, and yes, it would be discrimination to have her removed from 4H. The girl made a mistake, but that doesn't mean she should be shunned.

Sometimes it's not all about you. At times like this we need to think of the needs of other first.

Who is to say that this girl was not raped - even date raped - pressured - etc into having sex and this is what happened. She is not to be made to feel shamed or that this baby is a mistake. I am sorry but if this happened and I learned that others were speaking the way your parents are about kicking her out of this program I would tell them they are the ones that were making a mistake and showing their true nasty colors.
This is a touchy subject as I had a number of friends that were in the same position when we were in school and the ones who had support have done great the ones without support are still struggling with things even today

that is my 2 cents

I find it offensive that "other parents" think she should be kicked out. And, quite honestly, your punishing words don't help - "unfortunately...childhood comes to an end quicker than planned." So, someone should go to this girl and say "You chose to have sex as a child. Now that you're pregnant we think you no longer qualify as a child, so you can't participate any more!" ? Really? How does this make sense? I think you all need to consider using it as a teaching example to your own children - that it CAN happen - and show her some compassion and support. I'm sure a child having a child has got to be beyond scared.

I think it is wonderful that this child is still involved in 4H. She is going to need a lot of support ant guidance. Making this young girl a part of such a valuable group is the important lesson the other children in 4H should be learning, not about throwing people out because they make mistakes that won't even affect you.

Frankly, I'm a little bit horrified by the other parents in your group who are thinking she should not be there. Isn't 4H a Christian organization? This girl is about to have some serious struggles in her life and, as you point out, to have to grow up quickly. She doesn't need people casting stones at her. You have handled things correctly with your children, using this as a learning opportunity.

Throwing her out would be discrimination. It would also be cruel.

There are always bad examples everywhere. IMO this is an opportunity to learn about second chances and pushing forward and overcoming adversity. This child is not the 1st 15 year old to get pregnant, neither would she be the last. I am more worried about the ramifications of excluding this child from your group. What are you teaching then?

Our children do not live in a bubble, we should be confident enough in our guidance that they will learn to act in an appropriate manner regardless of what is around them. Sure they will make mistakes along the way and we can only hope that they will pick themselves up and forge forward and continue on the path of being an outstanding adult. Someone who is hopefully tolerant, kind and productive. I least this is my hope for mine =).

I think the goals of 4H...to teach responsibility, learning to succeed, be helpful, etc...might be best served by showing these qualities to this girl. You never know what decisions she is going to make concerning this pregnancy.

She may slowly dwindle out of the program. She might keep the baby and use it, and her 4H experience to motivate her to move forward. She might give the baby up for adoption and still need the support of her 4H friends and parents to continue with moving on with her life.

I would explain how you used this opportunity as a teaching moment for your kids and model that behavior to the other parents. Good luck!!

As far as the girls in your group are concerned, this should be treated just like your treating it at home as a learning moment.

As far as the parents are concerned, explain to them that there is nothing in the 4H guidelines that indicates that she can no longer be a part of the organization.

I didn't read all of the responses, so I apologize if someone already brought this up.

Being pregnant at 15 isn't setting the best example for kids, but it has no bearing on whether or not she should be allowed to participate in 4H.

My question is whether or not a pregnant girl is at risk being around livestock due to any viruses, bacteria, or antibiotics she may be unnecessarily exposed to. This is the only issue I would address. You should not have to address anything else with the other parents, because it is none of their business.

If the parents are going to talk about the poor choices that this girl made, they should also talk about the fact that she chose not to abort this baby.

This girl as you said, is in another group, who participates, in the county fair. This is not your, group. Correct?
So that other group, has to discern what to do.
But it is all a part of the 4H.

She is still a child. Who is having a child.
Who knows what her family life is like.
The 4H group may be the only sense of normalcy or socialization for her... and to learn continued, life lessons. Especially after she has her baby.
As it is, she WILL face much hardship and even discrimination in her daily life... being a 15 year old who is pregnant. And she will encounter this, everywhere she goes. And once she has her baby. It will be hard and sad for her, being treated this way.
She should be able to continue in the group.
She is, a child after all.

Children encounter "bad examples" everywhere in society and at school, regardless if some kid is pregnant or not. And, any parent needs to guide THEIR child, in life lessons. And to teach them to discern... what they see and hear.

Even if.... this girl is kicked out of the group... the kids will still wonder about her and about her situation. The "problem" will not just go away if the girl is kicked out. Parents, will STILL need to, talk with and guide their children. And then if she is kicked out, then the adults will have to talk to the members and explain WHY. So that is another continuum, of the "problem."

Again, kicking the girl out of the group, will not solve anything.

I feel sorry for this gal.
Everyday must be... so hard for her. And she is being judged and who knows what else, everywhere and at home.
She is still, a child.

She participates in 4H and treated with kindness like you do all the other children. Just because she is pregnant does not mean all your kids will be ruined for life and be a pregnant teen. The worst thing that could happen to her is to have people ignoring her or just not being kind to her. Right now she needs to be included and supported.

i absolutely agree with the idea that IF you were to kick this girl out, you would be obligated to track down the boy, and kick him out too. if he was in 4H, would that happen? think about it.

i completely disagree with the notion of punishing this girl by kicking her out of 4H.

as someone else said, having support and love from the get-go is what separates teenage moms who make it, from those who don't. no one in that club has ANY right to judge. none. as in, at all. do NOT punish and condemn that little girl for sinning in a different way than what is "okay". that's the bottom line, and it's not opinion. it's fact. it would be hypocritical and wrong.

This is a child going to raise a child, her child hood has not come to an end mentally but she does have to grow up quick! That is where a lot of our problems stem from in society today. Our children are not being taught and raised correctly due to the parent having a arrested development.

I think if I were in the group I would fight to keep her in and use it as a level based teaching moment and help, help and help this child give her child a chance by creating a village to raise a child's child.

I would not thorw a baby shower ect... from the group but I would arrange for things to begiven. JMHO from experience...

from what i read, she isn't even in your group. i get that your group will see her at the fair but it doesnt impact your group directly and even if she was in your group, i can not believe a wonderful group like 4H would consider kicking her out. The group may be her refuge right now and nobody knows the circumstances for this pregnancy. my ex sister in law got pregnant at 14 and delivered at 15. she was and still is a very smart, focused lady. just remember to be kind, it really can happen to anyone. blessings to you

I will say that a few of the best parents I know are the same age as I am 35...and those few have children 16-18 years in age. They are respectable adults, parents. I still was friends with them even after they had kids at a young age. I waited until I was 28...no I don't agree that they are bad examples.

I agree it's discrimination of a sort that you're saying she made one bad decision that will now affect the rest of her life and she's out. WOW!

From the 4H Website : "4-H’ers across the nation are responding to challenges every day in their communities and their world."... "The 4-Hs

Head, Heart, Hands, and Health are the four Hs in 4-H, and they are the four values members work on through fun and engaging programs.

Head - Managing, Thinking
Heart - Relating, Caring
Hands - Giving, Working
Health - Being, Living"

Is not going to face more challenges than most kids? Yes she is...does not not deserve any of the 4Hs above? Sounds like she of all people needs others to be caring, giving, thinking...hmmm all of the above to help her get through a time in her life that is hard enough for an adult.

Off my soap box now!

I can understand the concerns of the parents. Too often our children see their peers making these decisions which we as adults know will have dire effects on their life for some time to come. Yet our children don't see these affects - they just see "Mary" coming around with her cute little baby and "Mary's" life going on as normal. They don't understand or see that Mary may not get to go to college, become a doctor, or travel abroad like she had always dreamed of. Even worse, they may see "Mary" doing all this despite the child because the parents have assumed primary care, and they think "Wow! Mary got that cute little baby and her life is STILL awesome! I want that!"

In this new society, having a child at 15 does not 'end your life' like it would have 40 years ago. There are so many social programs around that the mother is enabled to not only finish school but go onto college, with all her expenses taken care of. Honestly, it's to the point that other than the sleepless nights, it barely makes an impact on the mother's life plan anymore. (I know, there are a lot of costs to the child growing up without a father and the cost to the tax payer is slowly crushing the country. That's another discussion.)

At the end of the day, the best you can do is explain to your kids that her life will be much harder now and she may not acheive the goals she once set for herself. (i know, she just might. but by then maybe your kids will have forgotten about the issue.)

This girl probably could really use the support of the 4H group more so than ever. There are projects related to child care, nutrition, and home making skills. Food safety, first aid, and so on. I don't know what her support is like at home but this could be a good way for her to head in the right direction with her new child.

What an opportunity to teach both the kids and parents compassion! This girl (remember, she is still a young girl) who made a very big mistake is already being treated negatively in many areas of her life...she doesn't need it from those who, in my opinion, should continue to be supportive and encouraging. She is not a lost cause, nor is her child...though they will be if you all kick her out!
Her success is not solely on your group's shoulders, but your response will go a long way one way or another. I hope you all can hold her, and her child, up.
Good luck!

Smart kids make dumb choices and have to live with those decisions. I'd answer their questions honestly, like you have with your own children. Tell the other parents that they should discuss the situation as appropriate with their own children but that she is not going to be removed from the group. She may have to drop out anyway in the spring because of her child's needs. In the meantime, 4H can offer her a constant that she might really need right now.

You can support someone without encouraging the same behavior. When my nephew and his then-gf announced they were expecting, the family wasn't *happy* but we also didn't shun them. They needed us and so did their baby girl (who is now a vibrant 3 yr old that I adore). Her parents had to learn some tough life lessons, but I give them a LOT of credit for parenting together, even if they are no longer together. We had some frank conversations with the sks after we found out about the baby. They know we do not want the same for them and why but they also know that we will support them (as long as they pull their own weight) if they do have a surprise.

This could be a lesson for other kids about how to live up to some of the values you want them to get out of 4H, like treating others with respect.

She is a child who obviously made at least one bad decision and will now have to "grow up" and be responsible sooner than she should have to but she is still a child. I would suspect that once the baby is born, between school (I hope she continues) and being a mother, she will likely be a lot less active in 4H (if not quit completely). If she doesn't I think she should still be able to continue in whatever age category she falls in. It will be good for her to still have those community ties.

I think all can use this as a teachable moment...yes, she made bad decision but that doesn't mean she's a bad person. How she handles the backlash can say a lot about a person...as well as how others treat her.

There is no way you can kick her out or ask her to leave unless there is a clause in the bilaws stating no one in the program and become pregnant. This is probably what she needs she needs to have people supporting her even if she made a bad choice. She needs to know that bad judgement sometimes does not mean your life is over. I was not married when I had my oldest and some people turned their backs on me and I was an adult. And I remember how that felt. A teen does not need to feel that! If you are worried about other kids asking questions that's up to the parents to address how they explain to their kids but in know way do they need to be judgmental. She is probably very scared!!!

I don't think it would be fair to kick her out of the group either. I think that the other parents feel uncomfortable because it now means that they have to address questions, concerns, issues, etc. with their own child. I'm not saying it won't be hard to field those questions from kiddos, but it seems like punishing this girl. I think it sounds like you handled your kids well and you'll have to encourage the other parents to discuss their values with their children too. But, unless one of the values is to exclude others, discriminate, or not be compassionate, then I'd say keep her in the group. I know this next analogy is a bit of stretch, but honestly, if another child made a poor choice by jumping on their bed without permission, fell off and broke their arm making it difficult to participate in group activities, would they be excluded. I think not. I know pregnancy is on a MUCH bigger scale, I'm not trying to trivialize, but she made a poor choice by not using contraception...lots of kids in your group make poor choices all the time and hopefully they aren't as life changing as this one. I hope the parents and other kids can learn to be compassionate.

I also agree with Boss Fan who said that it's likely her ability to participate in the group activities will naturally dwindle as she gives birth and has to care for a new born.

I think this would be the perfect opportunity for not only you but the other 4H members to show compassion, love and acceptance with this young girl. Who knows what kind of situation this baby is coming into. Being in 4H or any other program can only help her succeed and excel in life. For people to question whether she should participate is wrong. Why shouldn't she continue? Just because of her pregnancy? Would they say she shouldn't continue if she had an abortion? I think in this situation, all parties can learn to accept the person---not the actions. This goes for all actions right or wrong.

Tell the children that even if you don't agree with someone's choices, you can still love them as a person and support them.

I hope this new mama to be has some strong support on her side....

This is a hard spot to be in. You of course don't want the other girls thinking it's "okay" that she is 15 and pregnant. But at the same time, maybe they will learn from her mistake? I also wonder if once she has the baby will she be able to continue in the group?
If any other parent addresses you, ask for their opinion and support on how to use this as a learning tool, but also not to push this girl out. She made a mistake, but she is still a child and obviously she needs guidance and support.

I like your first answer best.

I wouldn't kick her out or shun her but no way in heck i would be hosting a baby shower for her.

Even as an adult at age 24, having a baby meant that i gave up fun, recreational things to focus on my child. My guess is that the baby will keep her busy enough that you won't see much of her after it arrives. Unless grandma is super involved and raises it for her.

Even though she has ended a child hood in that one way and will be a parent she still is a child. She still needs guidance in growing and helping her baby grow and make correct choices. That's what 4h is for right? Just cuz someone made an accident and spilt something there to be taken out of a club. No ! So she screwed up she didn't have the support to help her choose correct choices doesn't mean that her only positive 4 h should be taken away.

I think that your leader is right. If anyone even suggests she should not participate then hopefully each member of this group or board has personal liability insurance to cover them if this girl's family chooses to file a discrimination suit on the group.

When I was on the Board of Directors for Habitat for Humanity in my area I always had a rider on my insurance for personal liability in the event the board was sued for one reason or another.

One woman in all the years I was active with this group threatened to file a suit. She stated that we had discriminated against her because she was low income. She didn't meet our minimum income requirements. She would have been spending over 50% or her income on her house payment alone. That is above the HUD regulations that say that about 33% of a person's income should be counted for housing. That is "supposed" to include utilities, insurance, housing payments, and all the money used for a repair fund too.

Most people spend more than 33% on housing by far though.

She didn't follow through though. When we showed her the houses and visited with her about how much her house payment would be, in general, she realized that she would not be able to afford a regular house payment.

I know that sounds mean but Habitat is not a hand out, it's a hand up and to have that one must be able to afford to pay a house payment.

The houses are bought using sweat equity, they often work over 300 hours to pay their down payment and get a house. Then they buy the house and the habitat board is basically their bank and the payments they make go into the organization to pay for more houses to be rehabbed and built for even more people.

Our houses payments started around $200 per month and the highest one, at the time I went off the board, was about $350 per month. This was for a simple home that didn't have extra spaces like large dining rooms or dens, no double car garages, nothing that was a splurge. This woman's income was only about $400 per month. She could not technically afford this high of a housing payment.

She was in a low income apartment and paying about $35 or $40 per month. Had she sued and won I would have been out nothing, my liability insurance would have covered it.

In this case she is an under aged teen that wants to be part of a group of kids her age. She is completely allowed to be there and nothing the parents can do will change that.
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I can also tell you that she will be the best deterrent for your kids having unprotected sex than anything you can say or preach to them...my daughter saw the neighbor girl get out of the car right after having her baby. She was barely able to walk. My daughter was appalled and said she was never having sex.

We all know that once she hit 18 she was a baby making machine but as for sex under age, there was not way she was going to be doing that.