When Is Enough ENOUGH?! - Richmond,VA

It is enough when the children would be happier without him weighing you all down. You need to put their needs first. He either agrees to counseling or he moves out and hopefully he agrees to counseling. YOu can find free counseling

I have been in your shoes more recently than I care to remember! A few years ago, we had to relocate for my job. My husband's company had said they would continue his employment, but then as soon as we moved (and had taken on a big mortgage) the economy went south, and he was laid off. He remained jobless for more than a year. The financial strain was incredible. He became very depressed, which just made trying to find a job even worse. My nerves were shot because I felt like if anything went wrong at work and I lost MY job, we'd have to go live under a bridge. We ended up losing our home and almost declaring bankruptcy. That was 3 years ago.

It was "hitting rock bottom" and losing our house that finally woke him up. He went out and got into a different field of work (construction work, which he had resisted even though he is a good carpenter, because he'd always been in office jobs after college). He started his own business, gained a loyal clientele, and got back on his feet. His positive attitude returned. But nothing I said or did made the difference. I just let his actions (lack thereof) follow through to their natural consequence. It definitely sucked to lose our house. It still makes me want to cry just thinking about it. But it gave me my husband back, and that's worth more than a house any day in my book. Someday we will own a home again. But for now we are enjoying a scaled-back lifestyle and my husband jokes that "I've finally been promoted to a job where I get to wear my name on my shirt!" But hey - honest work is all that matters, even if it's not the same highfalutin' job he had before. ;)

Just focus on yourself for now. You are doing a great job providing for your family. You have no control over what your fiance does, so stop trying. Use that energy to keep yourself and the kids happy and healthy. Your fiance will either man up, or he won't. Decide within yourself how much you're willing to take. Don't give him ultimatums, because like I said, you can't control him, but just know what YOU need to do to keep yourself sane. If that means relegating him to roommate status, so be it. If that means kicking him to the curb, so be it. If that means telling him that he is going to be a stay at home dad (with all the cooking, cleaning, and raising children duties involved), then so be it. Think what the best way forward is for YOU and then proceed.

Hon, sometimes the more of the load YOU bear, the less your partner HAS TO bear. Place the burden for part of the financial support squarely where it belongs: his shoulders.

There ARE jobs out there. He needs to get O. asap.

If I had to make a guess, I'd say that your fiancee is feeling a like he should be the one carrying the financial burden not you. It makes a lot of men feel very emasculated to not be contributing to the family income. He might not even know that's what's making him such a sour puss. I see this question on here (and in real life) all the time.
It's time for a truthful talk. See if you can get him to open up. Make sure he knows that he's not less of a man in your eyes. Explain that you get that he's frustrated, but that it's not right for him to take that frustration out on you. Are there "manly" things he can do around the house? Build a bookshelf or fix something that's been on the "honey do" list for a long time?

Also remember, when you make those vows (even though you haven't yet, you are planning on it) it's for better or worse and richer or poorer.

As hard as this is to acknowledge, R., the man you are engaged to is the same man you will be married to. Whatever traits and negativity he exhibits now, especially before you've even established a committed relationship (and most men are still on their best behavior), is what you have to look forward to whenever you have rough patches in your marriage.

I didn't want to believe this with my first husband. He gave me fair warning, but I was blinded by love, and hope, and the pictures in my own head about how my love, generosity and support were going to change him. I lived with an absurd amount of poor treatment and unfairness for 13 dismal years before I saw my way clear to give it up. I wish, for my daughter's sake, it hadn't taken so long.

I hear that you have children (together?), and that certainly complicates matters. But please, before you marry this man, decide if this is what you are willing to face for the rest of your life. It may not be.

You may need to stop being so "upbeat" towards him- people who are experiencing true depression really don't like being around falsely upbeat people and will react negatively to them, thus perpetuating that cycle.

I would suggest sitting down and having a "reality check" conversation with him where you directly address the fact that you suspect he may be depressed and here's why (list your observations). Acknowledge the fact that he's feeling depressed most likely because he feels like he isn't contributing to the family in the way that he used to and that would like for him to just acknowledge that too (Step 1: Admit to the problem!).

Then in a non-accusatory manner tell him how you feel- make it about you, not him. "The negativity is making it difficult for me to______. I feel like we don't talk anymore and it makes me feel ______. I am feeling overwhelmed b/c _______________".

You can't make him do anything, but you can tell him the impact his depression has on the family. Asking him to look at the positives isn't going to help b/c he simply can't right now. Start talking openly about it and maybe he'll start talking too-

I'm sorry to hear of your financial troubles, and when your SO gets depressed about it, it makes it that much worse. But if you did leave, would that really release the financial problems? Especially if you take the kids?

It's hard times right now for so very many people, and I believe the economy is going to get worse before it gets better. If that happens, you're really going to need each other then. I would encourage you to be strong a while longer. Keep trying to bring him up, encourage him, keep telling him you're on his side, you're a team, you need him to be on your side too. Hopefully eventually he'll hear it. It's definitely difficult to be the only breadwinner for a family of five. Good job for being the rock your family needs right now.

well, he'll probably get a job at some point (and i'm really having a hard time with why it's taken him so long) and that will help. but it's not going to magically transform him into someone else. you've had issues for a very long time now with you always being the rock. he's a good guy in a lot of ways and a cutie! but if you think he's going to be a true partner in that he'll take financial responsibility, encourage you to go play while he watches the kids, and boost you up when you're overwhelmed and blue, i'm afraid you are setting yourself up for disappointment. when the chips are down, people show their mettle. you guys have had some rough challenges lately and it's always you who rises to the occasion. if you can do that for a lifetime, you can probably live with his shortcomings and figure out a way to be happy. but don't kid yourself that 'as soon as _________ changes' it's all going to be okay.
look this square in the face, babe. and make your decision based on reality, not romantic hopes.
you know i'm rooting for ya.
khairete
S.

Oh I just want to hug you! (((((HUGS)))))

I want to commend you for doing such an amazing job!

I also want to ask you two questions...

What does your husband say when you tell him you feel this way?

and I know times are tough, but can you see a therapist together- even once a month? They are full of great ideas and pathes that can assist you through this.
NO ONE CAN DO IT ALONE! Even in a couple, there are too many other stresses between jobs (or lack there of), money, kids, family. Embrace the idea that it can improve and add onto the already great aspects of your relationship.

My husband and I were both unemployed for 6 months and me for an additional 4 months. We were (are) broke, lost our house, and were wondering what else could go wrong! Like you, we are thankful that we are healthy and know that all the rest will repair in time.
I know how you feel and its not fun to feel this way day in and day out. I promise when things improve you will look back and be proud that you did it together.

You are really in a tough position. I totally understand where you are coming from. My husband was unemployed for a year and a half. I think for men a lot of their self esteem comes from their job and providing for their families. I know that there are some men who are comfortable to be a SAHD, but I think for the most part, men just aren't wired for that. Ultimately, my husband went back to work at an entry level position and frankly, I think it probably cost us money for him to work at first! LOL ~ He has quickly moved up and is now a supervisor. I am not really sure what your fiance is interested in doing for a job, but maybe if he can just find anything, that would help him to feel better about himself. I LOVED having my husband home all the time. I thought it was great. But he really wasn't digging it. I think that you should hang in there. This too shall pass. There are going to be lots of times in your relationship when you have to just hang in there! That is what makes a relationship strong when you can walk through the fire TOGETHER!! He may not be expressing it to you right now, but I am sure that he realizes all that you do, and I bet he appreciates you more than you know. Once he gets out of his funk, he will let you know.

Having seen up close and personally, what unemployment can do to a man, it definitely can cause depression, even clinical depression that needs to be treated with professional help.

I think you need to have a serious sit-down discussion with him. Share with him all the things you just told us, but don't be emotional. Tell him that you are concerned for your family's, his and your own emotional well-being, and that you want to work through this, but you can't be the only one who is working to hold it together. Show him empathy, and flat-out ask him what you can do to help him. Then, tell him what you see as things that need to be changed if you, as a family, are going to be able to pull yourselves out of this----that he has to make a conscious effort to avoid the negativity, and instead focus on doing something positive. That positive thing might be: he's now in charge of the grocery shopping (or other area of finance), and as such, he is responsible for finding the best prices on the foods you buy, so you can save money.

If you can turn it around and instead of getting dragged down by the money you don't have, focusing on maximizing the money you do have, your whole outlook will improve.

Then, give it some time, and revisit it again in a month or two. If you really don't see any effort to try to move past this, then, maybe it's time for counseling or calling it quits. But don't give up yet....

I highly recommend The Tightwad Gazette as an excellent resource for finding all kinds of places in your budget to pinch those pennies till they scream, and give yourselves a bit of breathing room. Some of the info (like the long distance phone info/computer info) is outdated, but 99% of what's in there is wonderful. Check it out from the library!

(hugs)

As others have said, I hope you share your post with you fiance. It might be hard but I think he needs to see/hear it. It is well written and you get your point across without anger. He needs to realize how much effort you are putting forth. As for the arguments, you've got to work on walking away. Stop arguing over stupid stuff. It's not worth the additional stress to you. That said, you need to discuss, not argue, the important issues - him leaving work, kids, home, etc. up to you; him not working; etc. Honey, McDonald's is always hiring. Time for him to man up and find a job, ANY job! If you can relieve some of the financial stress, you can start working on the other issues, hopefully via some counseling b/c clearly he is not listening to you. Maybe he will listen to a 3rd party. You really need to consider all of this BEFORE you commit to a marriage with him.

He needs to find a job, any job. You don't say what kind of work he did or what his interests are. He may be able to find something in a retail setting. The pay is usually minimum wage but retail employees get an employee discount on purchases. If he works at a large department store he could purchase all of the kids clothes, shoes ect, household needs, and as his dependent you could purchase things you need with his discount. I worked at Penney's for 3.5 yrs and was able to keep on eye on things I wanted to buy when stuff hit clearence I kept watching it, I was able to buy Christmas and birthday gifts for my granddaughters for almost nothing. I loved it.
If this doesn't interest him he could make up fliers for lawn care, snow removal ect and post them in grocery stores etc. He may not be able to find a regular job but he could start his own business. Since you have a stable job with enough income to support your family he could patiently grow his business until he making enough to really contribute to his family.

Enough, is enough, when you decide for yourself...

Here is my advice
1. Limit yourself on negative feelings each day
2. Tell him that this is what you are doing and you would like it if he tried to do the same as well
3. Ask him what he wants to do with his life at this point
4. Help him accomplish that goal (if you feel you need to give him a time frame on figuring it out like 1month)
I say these things because you both need a change from what I am reading so change it! You can only change what you can control, you can control yourself by limiting the time you wallow each day, you can not control his wallow time but you can suggest it and show him how by being an example. During this time he has probably been down about himself but not wanting to admit it (guy thing) and is thinking about what he CAN'T do not what he wants to do. Often you can take something you want to do and find something from there. Support him, help brainstorm with him AFTER he has figured out what HE wants to do what he can do with that. I suggest a time limit because if he is as down and you say he may take too long to figure it out. These are my suggestions take what you need and work it out.

Depression is hard and worse when you feel like you are not carring your weight. I know you may think it is hard on you but you have never felt worthless and as if you can't provide for your family.

I think what you wrote was pretty clear and concise. Now show to fiance and show the responses. If you are sort of spoiling him and letting "deal" with his feelings, I'm thinking maybe you haven't really verbalized your discontent. Him reading it will sink in, because he will realize you are so unhappy, stressed etc, that you took to the computer to express your angst. I've read your posts before and your reponses to other posters, you are a strong caring mom and partner. And should expect the same from your man. I was out of work for over a year and my hubs was for a few months within that year. It was tough and shocking and depressing and I was always the bread winner and hubs was "waiting" for me to find a job until I said YOU NEED TO FIND A JOB!! He did. Was it his dream job? Heck no and he hated it but he had to pick up the slack and take the stress financially off us. He in the end felt like a real contributor to our family. Your fiance will too once he finds something. Doesn't look like it now but it will get better, just tell him what you need.

Men value themselves by what they do for a living. Their role in life is to be provider for the family. Your fiance isn't able to do that so he feels worthless, of course he's depressed.
Continue to encourage him, don't even think about leaving when you have 3 kids together!

Oh, bleck.

But this is the part in marriage they call 'for worse'. It's NEVER gonna be 50/50.

I can tell by your post that you have strength and substance BEYOND what he has and you WILL continue to carry that weight emotionally AND financially. You sound pretty vested.

I wish the best for your fam, and pretty sure This Too Shall Pass, and that you WILL find the open window that ALWAYS goes with the CLOSED door.

:)