Young Kids and Practicing / Perfectionism

I'm a perfectionist, and my youngest son is, too. I also teach AP English and my classes are filled with students who are also high-achieving perfectionists. My world is filled with type-A, stressed out people.

What I keep repeating to them (and to myself) is that if we do everything perfectly than we aren't learning anything. We have to make mistakes in order to learn.

My 7 year old son just started piano lessons. We practice every night after dinner for about 10-15 minutes. He practices the songs in his piano book and then we just "play" on the piano. That part is usually really loud with music that sounds horrible, but it's fun. I enjoy sitting next to him, creating terrible music!

My expectations are simple: I don't expect "perfect" anything. I expect that after dinner he & I will spend 15 minutes or so playing piano. I want it to be a fun time we spend together. I think the more you can make an activity fun, the more success you will have with the commitment issue.

Best,
T. Y

Mistakes are not only OK, mistakes are a necessary step in the process, and fearing them is unhealthy. So is perfectionism.

One thing you need to do is stop videotaping him. You need to focus on the joy in this activity, and not make it such a serious chore by videotaping things he needs to improve upon. You should probably stay out of it, other than setting a brief practice time (15 mins., as suggested below).

You need to help him get over his fear of mistakes and need for perfectionism, right away. One of the main things you do is that you ONLY praise and reward EFFORT, and you never praise and reward innate "ability" or "intelligence."

If you want to see the very eye-opening studies on this, Google Carol Dweck. I learned about Dweck in my education classes at university. It's fascinating to watch the effects of praising effort vs. intelligence/ability, which has immediate effects on kids' performance. This is one of the most important things parents can learn.

I am copying the below from Wikipedia, but do further research on Dweck's philosophy. You will be happy you did.

From Wikipedia:
Professor Dweck has primary research interests in motivation,[2][3][4][5][6][7] personality, and development. She teaches courses in Personality and Social Development as well as Motivation. Her key contribution to social psychology relates to implicit theories of intelligence, per her 2000 book Mindset: The New Psychology of Success. According to Dweck, individuals can be placed on a continuum according to their implicit views of where ability comes from. Some believe their success is based on innate ability; these are said to have a "fixed" theory of intelligence (fixed mindset). Others, who believe their success is based on hard work, learning, training and doggedness are said to have a "growth" or an "incremental" theory of intelligence (growth mindset). Individuals may not necessarily be aware of their own mindset, but their mindset can still be discerned based on their behavior. It is especially evident in their reaction to failure. Fixed-mindset individuals dread failure because it is a negative statement on their basic abilities, while growth mindset individuals don't mind or fear failure as much because they realize their performance can be improved and learning comes from failure. These two mindsets play an important role in all aspects of a person's life. Dweck argues that the growth mindset will allow a person to live a less stressful and more successful life. Dweck's definition of fixed and growth mindsets from a 2012 interview:

"In a fixed mindset students believe their basic abilities, their intelligence, their talents, are just fixed traits. They have a certain amount and that's that, and then their goal becomes to look smart all the time and never look dumb. In a growth mindset students understand that their talents and abilities can be developed through effort, good teaching and persistence. They don't necessarily think everyone's the same or anyone can be Einstein, but they believe everyone can get smarter if they work at it."[8]

This is important because (1) individuals with a "growth" theory are more likely to continue working hard despite setbacks and (2) individuals' theories of intelligence can be affected by subtle environmental cues. For example, children given praise such as "good job, you're very smart" are much more likely to develop a fixed mindset, whereas if given compliments like "good job, you worked very hard" they are likely to develop a growth mindset. In other words, it is possible to encourage students, for example, to persist despite failure by encouraging them to think about learning in a certain way.

I agree with the suggestions about stopping the video taping, and not helping him if he gets stuck. Even if you were an accomplished pianist, he's taking lessons from someone, and it's their method that counts here.

Simply ask the teacher to clearly state what she wants him to do at home. 15 minutes a day or 30 minutes 4 times a week? A couple of scales? Learning a song? And then tell him that the practice is between him and his teacher.

My dad used to listen to me practice. He didn't know anything about music, but he'd bring his book in and sit and read, and he'd tell me that listening to me play helped him relax (even if there were some sour notes and awful chords and I'm sure that behind my back he winced a lot when I hit those wrong notes!). I enjoyed knowing that I was helping him relax. It became a very pleasant routine. You might try sitting and listening to your son, and encouraging him (don't critique, just say things like "good job" or "that sounded really nice" or "I like the way you're trying to improve that scale") or just smiling, and working on a project for those 15 or 30 minutes. Sort photos, copy recipes, file paperwork, knit, whatever. It would be great if you took that time to learn something too. Maybe you could learn a new knitting pattern, or do something that you've been putting off, like finishing a scrapbook? Do that while he's practicing, and you both might find that this could be a really helpful half hour for you both.

I have four kids, only one found something she enjoyed enough to go all in. Any kid will practice along with a group but to get to the level where they are driven the child must want to.

Of course since this child was driven enough to put in that effort she played with like minded girls. I can assure you not one girl on her team played to make her parents proud or because her parents wanted her to practice. It was 100% the choice of the player.

Every kid is different and different with each task. I have never felt okay with teaching my children for extended periods of time. I am only able to encourage. I don't understand how people are able to homeschool their kids, but it seems to work for them.

With that, I am a strong advocate for regularly scheduled lessons. Like anything else, there are good days and bad days. My daughter has a little bit of a competitive edge to her, when she wants something, so we explain that practice is how you obtain your goal.

He don't run into a problem of not wanting to go to practice, but more of a not so good practice from time to time. We don't worry so much about a bad practice unless it is disruptive. We just tell her there are good days and bad days, and that was one of the bad ones. We do most of it in fun and jabbing.

***added: I received a concerned message regarding this answer. Just for the record, my kids like playing piano, and they are free to quit when they no longer do, they just usually hate practicing, which I feel is normal.***

I have three kids in piano lessons. One is also in violin. They are varying levels of "natural" at it. One very much so. One medium. One not so much. Like me when I was a kid: The practice takes forcing. With all three. When my parents MADE me practice, I practiced.

Come hell, high water, death threats, tears, and all kinds of drama, my kids WILL PRACTICE. Once I force it. Every day. The day after lessons when they have new material is the WORST because they don't know the songs yet and make lots of mistakes (the horror)...

So, when do they settle gracefully into a smooth practice schedule and stop being sensitive about mistakes? BA HA HA!!!! Never.

Joking. Hopefully one day though.

When I hear parents say "I didn't force it because the child needs to express an interest..." I always think WTH??! What kid is interested in such a disciplined activity? Not many...also, my piano tuner told me he has no one buying pianos, my piano teacher said she has no students, because kids today do not have parents who "force them" to do lessons like back in the day. It's all about video games and entertainment now...

You're doing fine. It's not easy. It's good for him though!

As for mistakes, I never make a thing of them. I'll say, "If you could already play it why would you need to practice it? OF COURSE you'll make mistakes, everyone does.." etc. but it's normal to be frustrated by mistakes. Just don't let it derail practice.

It could have been me writing your question - my son sounds exactly the same as your son. The only difference is that I do know how to play piano and, believe me, that is not necessarily an advantage. He always wants me to come over and show him where his fingers should go rather than learning to read the notes himself, which is starting to get me a bit crazy.

My son hates practicing and, like your son, hates making mistakes. Piano is the first activity I'm really forcing him to do because 1. I firmly believe it helps with focus and learning the skill of memorization and 2. I cannot tell you how many adults have come up to me and said they wished they had learned to play piano or another musical instrument as a child.

That said, I'm probably only going to make him stick with it until he chooses an instrument at school in 4th or 5th grade for band. At least by then I'll know he has the foundation and will have learned to read music. If he chooses to continue with lessons after that, great. He should be a much better player by then and perhaps will begin to understand the value of practicing.

Stick with it, even if it seems discouraging at times. I've taken to keeping practicing fairly short (5 or 10 minutes a go) and letting him always end with a very easy, familiar song, like "Yankee Doodle" so he can get the hang of just enjoying playing for playing. He still complains, but I really do believe from personal experience that it's worth it. Maybe he'll thank me when he's 18 - ha! ;)

p.s. when I was a kid, the things I always hated about piano were scales and technical drills. Unless he's showing real aptitude, I would keep those things to an absolute minimum. Let him learn to just have fun playing at first.

I think this is his personality more than anything. Some people are harder on themselves than others, and often young children will be this way but they tend to grow out of it. All you can do is keep encouraging him and reminding him that mistakes are okay (and take a hard look at yourself and make sure you're modeling that as well, do you expect perfection, in your household, his behavior, etc?)
As far as piano, sports and practice, the key here is does he love it? When I was little I took dance classes. When I came home I twirled and tapped and practiced for hours, because I had a natural talent for it and because I LOVED it. Same was true when I was a cheerleader and actress in high school plays. I was good at those things so of course I enjoyed them and wanted to get even better.
Now when I tried playing the clarinet? Nope, I hated it, I wasn't very good and therefore lost interest quickly. I'm glad I was never forced to play a sport that required too much coordination because I was more graceful and rhythmic than athletic and I would have hated that too.
Just allow your son to do what comes naturally to him and he will thrive, it's really that simple.

I took piano lessons.
I also took violin lessons.
I hated, Hated, HATED it with a passion to the point of tears I hated it so much.

My sister plays piano, guitar and flute fairly well - she's good with the instruments.
I prefer to sing and really enjoyed being in several choral groups.
My sister never enjoyed singing.
I think when I was finally allowed to quit violin my teacher sighed with relief.

Sometimes a person has the drive and the talent to pursue something like this and sometimes they don't - and if they don't NO amount of practice/torture is going to make it any better.

Our son plays the clarinet - he started in the 6th grade (which is middle school here).
He enjoys it and is good at it.
He auditions for groups and wins positions in them.
I never had to make him practice - he has always done it on his own.

First of all, make sure you child likes the things he is involved in. Make sure if he is on a team he understands his effort is for the whole team as well as himself. Make sure that he understands if he is really trying it is what the goal is.

It is good to give things a try, but there is no reason to force a child to spend their time on an activity, they are not enjoying. There are just to many things out there for them to be passionate about in their free time.

Our daughter was never into sports. But she did end up rowing for 6 years once she was in middle school. She wanted to try fencing, but it was not available in our area. Our daughter was not interested in instruments, but she enjoyed and excelled at voice.

Our daughter is now a College admissions counselor, it has been eye opening to see how little "staying" in sports, music etc.. or years and years really counts, unless it is part of their studies.

my 2nd son is that way. oooooo, he used to get SOOOO angry and pissy if he wasn't good at something right out of the gate. and that included pretty much everything- baseball, board games, video games, horseback riding, snowboarding, frisbee, math concepts. it got to where it was exhausting just contemplating strewing that boy's path with more opportunities because i always knew it was going to result in a period of anger and meltdowns.
but what else could we do? stop allowing him to try new things?
that child taught me patience as a mother more than my first, for sure. i had to swallow my eye-rolling and impatience and let him work with the hardware he was born with, while still trying to help him develop coping tools.
now at 22 he's much more relaxed, and enjoys new things enormously. but i still have an inward giggle when i see flashes of that little stormcloud fellow as he works through a new process.
:) khairete
S.

Don't try to help him when he gets stuck. If you don't play piano, you can't help him and you shouldn't. Videotaping him is just going to make it harder.

He shouldn't practice more than 15 minutes a day. His fingers are small and being able to play requires his finger muscles to get stronger, and that takes time.

Learning piano is hard - lots of things going on. Learning notes, where the fingers go, two hands, etc. Don't push. Just 15 minutes a day, maybe 5 days a week. Be very upbeat about it. He will settle into practicing when he learns a little more and it gets easier. Either that, or he will lose interest.

I understand the thing about not wanting to make mistakes. That's hard to deal with. My son was the same way and we switched to cello so that he could play with other kids and see that they didn't mind making mistakes. That helped him. I don't know what to tell you about your son and this issue.

One thing I did when my oldest was about that age is get an electronic keyboard. I set up a music area with a screen...and headphones! Their were some music books there as well. (I am sure now there are tons of programs on line). He was not taking lessons per se, but had a LOT of fun plunking out tunes.

In school they all chose instruments (several sax, and several flutes). Most went on to sing as well.

Anyway, with the headphones (so no one could hear) and the screen (so no one could see) did allow them the privacy to pursue at their own pace.

Just a thought.

I have a son who is similar in regards to having a high natural aptitude for things, and then being sort of surprised when something isn't easy right away :) But he's gotten past that for the most part.

With piano, his teacher has instructions for 15 minutes per day of practice, but I don't have him stick to a strict time limit. I just have him go through each piece two or three times every day (on school days), which totals up to about 10-15 minutes. For him, if it's about time, he focuses on that too much. When that aspect is taken away, he focuses more on the music. But I imagine that for some kids, having a set number of times per piece could encourage them to simply rush through practice, so find what works best for him.

I play piano myself, and I can tell you that the mistakes we hear in our head are magnified by our emotional response. When I have heard a recording of myself playing, I barely notice the mistakes, or they seem much more minor than what I thought I heard when I was playing. After realizing that, my emotional response to making mistakes went way down and it doesn't bother me as much anymore.

You could talk to the teacher about the perfectionist issue as well. She could talk to him about it, or even demonstrate for him that even teachers make mistakes every once in a while. There are no perfect musicians.

ETA: I want to clarify to anyone who is interested, my son loves playing piano. When I was a kid, I preferred playing piano to anything else really. While I think it's valuable to challenge our children to grow, we should also take care to challenge them in the things they are naturally interested in learning.

I was a perfectionist, gifted child. I also took piano for many years (it's my undergraduate minor). Here were my challenges in practicing - I only wanted to practice when no one was around. So, if you can find a way to give him some kind of privacy in practicing, you might find that it goes a little better with less frustration. That way, the mistakes are his while he's learning- and he doesn't feel the pressure of others listening. Maybe some headphones would help in this situation. However, do NOT put the keyboard in an off room or hidden area. It should be in a prominent place so he remembers to practice!!
Also, there are some tools and tricks to effectively practicing piano, and can help with the frustration. The teacher should be helping him with learning the right way to practice. Learning how to practice correctly is very important!
Finally, give him a little time after he practices his assigned music to be creative. I used to love to play by ear (still do!)! I would hear something on the radio and would sit down and bang it out. My friends were always impressed. :)

If you don't play and know exactly how the teacher wants them to hold their hands, hold their body, and play then you don't help them practice or when they get stuck. You leave that to the teacher.

As for communication with the teacher ask her if she has a home to lesson notebook or does she write assignments in the books.

Our piano teacher buys each student a notebook and she writes each weeks work in it. I can go look as see if there is writing homework like counting time or putting certain notes on the right line or if it's mostly playing stuff and what pages they are supposed to practice.

Then I leave them to it. If they do it she knows. If they don't she knows. She lets them progress as they learn.

Have you been praising him all along for effort not success? It's great if you worked hard and learned a few new fractions or memorized some new addition facts. It's not "great" if you got an A on a spelling test when you already knew most of the words on Monday! praise working hard, praise persistence do not praise easy success.

Carol Dweck has an incredible book called Mindset in which she talks about having growth vs fixed mindsets. She's done a lot of research about kids and developing perseverance. One of the big things is to praise kids for effort, not smartness. "Wow, I'm really impressed with how you stuck with that tough math problem" vs "You are so smart!"

Good luck!

Why force your child to practice and turn this into something horrible. He is doing this for enjoyment and will practice on his own.

Ask him does he really want to learn piano or would he rather sit in front if the TV. Start making him think about his choices and what he really wants. Eg I have a stepson who constantly complains he has no friends, no social outlets ETC. But yet he quits everything he seemed to enjoy. I said to him yesterday what is it you want? U say u want a social lifem friends etc, but yet you choose to sit in front if the TV. The TV is not going to magically make friends for u.

So talk with him and if he says this is really what he wants show him that won't happen by not practicing, or just sitting at home doing nothing

My 6-year old is the same way. Hates making mistakes. Everyone has different personalities. Totally normal. Just try to praise the effort, not the outcome. Don't get too overly joyed when they succeed at something (because then they will be afraid of you not doing that again). Don't get upset when they get a bad grade, or do bad in something. Drill into them that it's OK to fail. Giving up is not going to help them because they won't improve in anything. Also, don't be too hard on yourself. Admit mistakes to them and let them see YOU work on stuff and trying again. Be laid back, don't be quick to respond when they spill stuff or mess up something. Nip perfectionist behavior in the bud asap, such as erasing their homework too much for reasons that are not necessary. Praise efficiency, not how perfect it is. Set time limits for homework. If it doesn't all get done in proper time, let them stop and not finish it. It's all about balance, as in life, everything is. You want to encourage hard work ethic, but you also want to be laid back to certain extent. Live it and he will move in a better direction. Part of it, may just be in his temperment. Don't fight it too much. Let him be who he is on some level.

Also, I might add that I think 7 is too young to be taking piano lessons. Because piano is one of those activities that requires daily practice. The weekdays are already filled with obligations, such as 6 hours of school, 1 hour of homework/reading, time to exercise. What's left really? How much time does he have to just be a kid and develop his imagination? In this day in age, it is easy to subscribe to the after school activities at young ages, but it is my belief that those should not be explored until at least 9 or 10. Just my thoughts. We are trying to develop our kids too much, at the sacrifice of letting them develop naturally. Just because they can handle it or they like it, doesn't mean it's best for them. Also, when you take a child's childhood away by involving them in serious activities, there may be other unforeseeable consequences that are not obvious. Please don't take offense, as this is me coming to terms with my own kid and how I am going to be. I just took her out of taekwondo and acting because I realized her childhood was being compromised. I'm learning and just sharing my opinions. Not judging. :-)