Would You Do This? - Garfield,WA

People who are unable to get vaccines (infants, people who are immuno-suppressed, etc) rely on the rest of us to be vaccinated. It's called herd immunity. The reason these outbreaks are happening is because people have gone bonkers and stopped getting vaccines for perfectly preventable diseases, and the people unable to be vaccinated are suffering. I, personally, would not force anyone to do this, I'd rely on hand washing as I did with my first baby, but if I had someone else request it, I would understand.

G. T you are funny!

In answer to the question--He has a right to ask. You have a right to not get the shot and wait to see the child when the danger passes.

I would get the shot if I could afford it as it would benefit my health as well.

At the end of the day, it's their kid and what they say goes. If they said that you had to be wearing a pink tutu in order to hold the baby... I guess you'd be wearing a pink tutu if you wanted to hold the baby.

I think they are right and are trying to protect their child as best they can.
Many people are contagious before they show or are aware of any symptoms (that is true for most contagious diseases).
You can call your local health department and inquire about free whooping cough vaccine shots - they are available.
You are more determined to feel hurt/insulted over their request rather than looking for a no cost way to comply.

Check with your local health dept. because of the recent resurgence or whooping cough (aka pertussis), our local departments were providing the vaccine for free. It's called Tdap and will also cover your tetanus update. We had to have our booster since we were foster parents. It's definitely worth looking into.

So you and Grandma T don't care if you expose a newborn baby to a deadly disease because you can't afford a shot. You think if you just see the baby for a day or two or if you don't feel sick, then the baby can't catch anything. I'm sure you're a nice person, but you don't know what you're talking about. We're talking about life and death here. Newborns don't have the same defenses as adults or even children. If you don't care enough to protect the child, then why do you even care if you see it. Sorry to be so harsh, but you really don't seem to understand the danger.

1) As an asthmatic child, your daughter can receive vaccinations from nearly any Children's Hospital... as most children's hospitals have a "We will see/treat any child regardless of parents' ability to pay" policy. Either straight out free (they'll arrange a med grant through their endowment), or even a $5 a month payment if you can't afford a $20 copay but have insurance. You just need to speak with the billing &/or social work department of the hospital.

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2) It only takes 2 seconds (one exhale) to infect a person. 10 minutes? Two whole days??? That's a freaking huge exposure window

3) It's a totally reasonable request, especially with the outbreak ongoing. Yes. They may have been ignorant and careless last year, but I'll bet they had their eyes opened in some fashion over this past year. Doing something out of well intentioned ignorance is one thing. Continuing to do something stupid once you KNOW it's stupid is something different. They've come to realize a past decision was reckless and possibly deadly. They've corrected for that mistake.

4) While you might not go around an infant when you feel remotely sick
a- Most people aren't as conscientious as you are. Kudos!!! Yay! (Aaaargh. Don't. Get. Me. Started. On the selfish self centered idiots who walk around knowingly sick infecting other people.)
b- One of the most infectious periods is before you actually feel sick

2+3+4 = Yup. I would absolutely do this. Both in getting vax'd and in asking others. In FACT, after my son spent 6mo in and out of the hospital (massive respiratory infections, uncontrollable bronchiospasms brought on by those infections (also asthmatic kiddo), severely hypoxic, etc.)... we followed "infant rules". It took over a year for his pneumonia to vacate, and he caught every single respiratory infection that came around because his lungs were so weakened. My friends/family were MORE THAN HAPPY to either get current on all vaccinations and stay away at the first sign of illness. They didn't want to be responsible for his death. In many cases, they got those shots comp'd, because they were going to "be around" a "medically fragile" child, infant, immunosuppressed person, etc. which are all qualifiers for free to reduced fee vaccinations.

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The vaccine you don't need because you don't have a baby in the house is faulty logic. You WILL have a baby in the house, if you go over to their house. You will be in an enclosed space with an infant. Just because it's their house, and not your house, doesn't mean that you won't be breathing. Which makes the vaccine needed.

I live in WA state and there is a HUGE outbreak of The Whooping cough...so if your brother and his family live in WA, they do indeed have reason to be paranoid.

Um, yeah, if there was a chance my baby could be exposed to a deadly disease I'm pretty sure that would take precedence over being "rude" or "hurtful" to family members.
And do you honestly not realize you could be infected/contagious without any symptoms at all? And it only takes less than a minute to contract? That's like middle school health class/science information!
Can't you still "see" the baby in other ways, email/shutterfly photos, skype, facebook? This isn't the 1800's :(

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Our local health department gives out immunizations for free, check out yours. It is also suggested for parents to receive the immunization before bringing their baby home. My daughter had a severe reaction to the shot and couldn't receive the full immunization, so at 1 she contacted whooping cough and it was terrible. If she were a tiny infant she could have died. I know you think it is extreme but whooping cough it is a serious illness and it is wise for them to protect their child, especially if there is an outbreak in their area.

Your post and SWH sound angry. Maybe there's more going on in your family than you are sharing? If there are other reasons not to be involved with this new baby, then be honest and stay away for those reasons. You can chose to "be hurt" or not. And, these parents can chose to be extra careful about risking exposing their new baby to a deadly sickness.

I would get the shot in a heartbeat to see any of my relatives. It is inexpensive and readily available. Whooping cough can take up to four weeks from exposure to show symptoms, so you could have been exposed and not know it when you are with their baby. Babies can and do die from whooping cough. If there is an outbreak where you live, this is an absolutely reasonable request from new parents.

I can completely understand their concern. My son was born 2 ears ago in California, hen they were having an outbreak. Also, my son ended up so sick he had to be rehospitalized at 5 days old because he had contracted RSV. This virus is also deadly for little ones just like pertussis. I was told that RSV does not necessarily show symptoms in otherwise healthy adults, and that my son was most likely infected by either someone on the hospital staff, or a visiting relative. My son was an otherwise healthy, full term baby, and we required everyone to wash their hands prior to holding him. A winter baby is more susceptible to diseases, especially if there is an outbreak in your area. I am sure they are just concerned parents and are acting on advice given to them by the ob or pediatrician.

Whooping cough can be fatal in infants. I made all four grandparents get it before my second child was born. It was very important to me, especially now that there have been multiple whooping cough outbreaks. Washington, in particular, has had one of the highest rates of whooping cough outbreak in the country: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57409332-10391704/...

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/07/24...

I can very much understand your brother's feelings on this matter. Sometimes, you are contagious before you show any symptoms, as you may have been exposed and not realized it.

ETA: I just read your "so what happened." Clearly, you are aware of basically everything I have written, and you can see your brother's side of the story. Obviously, no one thinks you would willingly or intentionally expose the baby to an illness, but the problem is when you have been exposed and don't realize it. I understand you are upset and disappointed and hurt, but I don't blame your brother for requiring this, especially given the high incidence of the disease where you live.

My son is 3 1/2, and I was given the shot while in the hospital. Babies cannot get the vaccine until they are at least 6 months old (I believe it's 6 months, but I know they cannot get it at birth), so the hospital wanted me to have the shot to minimize exposure.

He is now in a PreK program, and we received a letter from the school letting us know that one of his classmates hat Pertussis and the county board of health required that we be notified and encouraged to contact our doctors to be given a prescription. We did call his ped, and she gave us a script. I was surprised, as it has only been 3 years since he was vaccinated, but it is that serious and that scary.

I really would at least look into this. Ask around. Our local drug stores all have teh vaccine and are encouraging people to get it. No idea how much it costs, but it's worth making a few phone calls.

My parents, brother and his grfriend are all getting the vaccine. I'm due in March. I didn't demand this of them, but my mom read an article about how important it is and she called my brother, and me, and told us all that we needed to update our vaccines.

Find a free clinic. No one in the medical industry wants to see this outbreak get any worse. It KILLS babies, and the way sickness works, you are usually sick before you know it.

I think many new parents are extremely concerned about their baby's health.

I was never an "alarmist" mom with my own children, but I come from a generation in which all kids were just vaccinated as a matter of course. It's just what was done at whatever monthly intervals. Not just for my kids, but for me, and my parents before me. I had an elderly aunt who was crippled for life by polio before the vaccine was invented. Without question, all the children to follow were immunized against it.

I have no intention of starting a ruckus, but there seems to be a trend in which some parents don't want to immunize their children. They have their reasons, their prerogative, but they rely on others who inoculate as a means for their own children to be protected. Not only that, but working in the medical field, it was kind of shocking for me at first to realize the number of adults who've battled whooping cough in recent years. It's a serious illness, in fact, in can be deadly, especially for babies and very young children. As an adult, you certainly can choose for yourself as to whether or not you receive a vaccine, just as your brother has the choice to protect his newborn.

In this instance, I have to say that I strongly disagree with the option of lying about having the vaccine if you haven't. On one hand, you are correct....YOU may not need the vaccine because you would likely survive a bout with whooping cough. Little ones aren't often so "lucky". In this matter, if I were the parent of a newborn, I don't think I'd rely on someone else's luck.

I haven't read any of the other responses and I may be answering late, but this is just my personal opinion.

As a side note, I strongly urge people to utilize their county's Department of Public Health clinics because they have services that are free and/or charged on a sliding scale. As a single mom, I had a great relationship with my kids' pediatrician, but I took them to the Health Department for their immunizations because it was free. I didn't have to pay for the appointment, I didn't have to pay for the shots. The nurses were very sweet, very much used to dealing with children, they gave them stickers and sugarless suckers for being brave, etc. They also have many, many services for adults. They can be an invaluable resource.

Just saying.

Asthmatics, elderly, newborns, and others with compromised immune systems are at very high risk for Pertussis/Whooping Cough. It's extremely serious. YOU may not be sick often, but that doesn't mean you're not a carrier. You could very easily pass along Pertussis to your impending niece/nephew without ever showing any signs of carrying it yourself.

Vaccinations aren't only about protecting yourself, but helping to protect people in your family, your extended family, and your community. People like myself, who have Fibromyalgia and suffer from everything associated with it including things like asthma and frequent illnesses, appreciate it more than you know.

I had my own Pertussis vaccination updated over a year ago during the last outbreak not just for myself, but to help protect my very elderly grandparents and my then-newborn niece as well as one of my SIL who is very, very immune-compromised. No one had to ask me to do it.

Anyway, your brother had the right to ask. It wasn't rude, it wasn't selfish, it wasn't anything else negative you can think of. Of course, it's your right not to get vaccinated. If you don't vaccinate, your brother does have a right to refuse to allow you to be around the baby. Every action has a consequence.

Yes, I made sure that my family (myself, husband, stepkids, my mom, my dad and stepmom, mother-in-law) all had the vaccine. I actually had whooping cough WHILE pregnant, it's very serious. And as others have pointed out, it can be in your system with no symptoms. It's a very valid precaution. I understand about costs, believe me!!!! Call your local Walgreens that has the Minute Clinic in it and inquire. Or go to your local health department, they should have some reduced cost vaccinations available.
I hope you can find one and get it, I'm sure you don't want miss out on the new baby! Good luck!

If the request is due to all the outbreaks of whooping cough then I would comply with their request or not see the baby until it's older. I don't think this is just a germ phobia but there are outbreaks all over I hear. A nurse recently told me adults are now going to have to be re immunized as they have found the shot doesn't last for some people. Also many are not getting their children immunized and the disease is still out there. I don't like the idea and didn't like giving my own kids immunizations but I did so I would get it or not go see the baby.
EDIT:
I don't agree with hiding babies from illness at all and agree with some that you can't keep them in from sickness but when there is an outbreak of a disease it's a bit different. I wouldn't request this immunization but I'm just saying there is an outbreak and it is their choice and I, personally, would respect that.

You can take it personally, but this is standard procedure. I insisted that my parents and in-laws get one before coming to stay with us two years ago when my youngest was born. I let it slide for a few token cousins and then just didn't take baby out the first three months.
I agree with "B".

It sounds like you can not afford it. SO just wait until the baby is older to see them. You said yourself you would only see the baby for 10 minutes, if at all this winter. So it doesn't sound like you are that excited to be around the baby anyways, so I would just wish them well, tell them the pictures are darling, and wait until the baby is older to be around them. They deserve the right to protect their baby. Those who feel this is unreasonable and over protective, have you driven around outside (bulletin boards) or watched television lately? There are a myriad of advertisements recommending everyone who has contact with a newborn to get vaccinated. This is just normal common advice now.

My best friend did this too.. No vaccine, no baby time. It was at the urging of her ob/gyn.

There are so many cases of whooping cough gong around. One whole family in our circle of friends caught it. (And they were all vaccinated).

I know all the grandparents and great-grandparents were baffled as to why they were being so strict. And my friend actually paid for a couple of close family members to get the shot.

My cousin in a pediatric nurse and she told me they never have fewer than three newborns with whooping cough in the NICU. She has watched babies die from whooping cough.

It is a real dangerous threat. I am sorry you can't afford the shot...can you call public health and find out f they are doing free flu and whooping cough vaccine clinics?? We have free clinics for vaccinations around here all the time. HUGS!!

I would not. But when I had my kids, I did say that if the relatives or friends were sick, they need to let me know. First. This is when my kids were infants. But my relatives are pretty picky with "germs" anyway.

Pertussis, is epidemic in some States.
In my State, last year... a 6 month old baby, DIED, due to Pertussis. The family had taken a trip during the holidays. A relative was sick. She didn't know it was Pertussis. (adults display different symptoms than babies). But so their baby got sick. They thought it was just a regular "cold." But it was not, it was Pertussis. By the time they took their baby to the Doctor and then was admitted to the Hospital, it was a bit too late. Their baby, died. The parents are now, advocates of the vaccine and of getting booster shots for adults.

My daughter is 10. At her recent well child check-up, the Pediatrician told me that the vaccine she got as a baby, by now, is wearing out. Thus at this age and for Tweens, he suggests getting a Booster shot for it. And my daughter did. He said that Tweens/Teens tend to get it, because by that age their baby shots for it, is wearing out. For my daughter's age, the vaccine is called TDAP. Versus for babies, it is called DTaP.
Being that I have Asthma... I also get my booster shots too.

Again, I would not MAKE my relatives do it, but if anyone is sick, especially when my kids were infants/babies, I asked that they wait until they get better first. Before visiting. But again, most people, would not visit an infant anyway, if they know, they are sick.

Maybe last year their 6 month old was vaccinated?? I don't remember when you get that one. I get that this is frustrating but I also get where they are coming from. I really think you should take a few minutes and make some calls to see how much the shot it, especially at the health dept.

Just imagine how you would feel if you did have it, and gave it to the baby, and the baby died.

Also consider that it will be cheaper to get the shot then pay for the medical expenses of actually contracting Whopping Cough.

Do you guys qualify for state run health insurance? Especially your daughter. I think in our state all kids qualify. You could at least get insurance for your daughter and depending on your income maybe yourself.

no i would not get a vaccine based on this request.

I would not go visit a newborn if I was sick. Are these new parents going to keep the baby indoors at home for 6 months?? away from all potentially germy people??

however... I bet you can get a free vaccine for flu or whoooping cough at your local health department.

Have you had a TP shot in the last 10 years? (Not just tetanus.) If you have, you are fine.

It's wrong of your brother to do this. If you want to stand on principle, I certainly understand. However, if there is an outbreak in your area, then you might want to call the health department and ask if you can get a free shot.

There are two moms on this board who have recently written in that their children have whooping cough and are in the hospital. One is an infant and it is very serious. The other one has at least one sibling who has been exposed. It's kind of scary.

Anyway, my answer to your question is no, I didn't tell my family that they had to jump through these hoops. However, I would have had a REAL problem with a parent at daycare saying that they would not immunize their kids. That's a different scenario, of course.

I know you're hurt. However, you kind of know this about your brother and his wife, right? There's some OCD going on there, am I remembering right? It is kind of like pay the piper now or later in terms of seeing the baby, perhaps?

Try calling the health department and see what they say.

Dawn

I would make the same request during the holidays and cold/flu season. The first 6-8 wks the baby is still very young and has not received their vaccines. If the baby gets sick and has a fever they will possibly have to be hospitalized. Why it maybe frustrating you have to respect the parents for being educated and making what they feel are the right decisions for their family. They have also notified friends and family ahead of time so that it would not be a surprise.

No, I would not do it and I'm alarmed at the medical fascism that is coming.

I respect the parents' right to ask this but I would also respect your right to decline. And I guess I wouldn't be seeing the baby. That's fine (but sad).

Not to mention, there is some debate as to whether that particular vaccine is effective - i.e., whether the disease itself has mutated to a new form.

There's also debate as to whether the "cocooning" strategy actually works. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2011/12/cocooni...#

JMO.

Doctors DO recommend ANY one in contact with the baby get the vaccine - it's pertusis, right? I'd see if your local CVS or Walgreens offers it for a good price. Or just wait and see the baby a few months after he/she is born.

Personally, I agree with you.
But I have heard of people doing this & similar things.

This is right up there with people that post those "cute little poems" on the door that tell everyone to wash their hands before seeing the baby.
Puh-Leeeez! It's common sense, people!

Here is a link to a list of resources in WA state that provide free or reduced vaccinations for adults. You can also get information about free or reduced vaccinations for your kids.
http://www.immunizewa.org/Coverage-for-Adult-Vaccines
Public health officials in WA want to do everything they can to stop the epidemic so they're are lots of free vaccinations available. Don't let the cost of the vaccination be an issue.
You can be contagious before you have any symptoms so just staying away from people after you are sick won't guarantee that you you won't spread germs.
B.

I would not unless the baby was a preemie or had genetic immune system issues.

I have never had a flu shot, and I don't have my kids get the flu shot. But if it were my brother asking, I would get the whooping cough vaccine. I think everyone has a right to be a paranoid first-time parent. There are quite a few horror stories out there about newborns dying of whooping cough.

Can you get the vaccine at a Minute Clinic or county health clinic? I would imagine it can't be that expensive. Don't bring your kids around their baby. This way, you won't have to vaccinate them, and they won't pass on any other yucky bugs to the baby.

I would never ask anyone to get a vaccine to see my baby. But I wouldn't begrudge someone who did ask. If I felt very strongly about not getting the vaccine, I would just settle for pictures and then visit the baby later (when the parents are a little less uptight and too tired to even wash their hands, shower, cook, clean......)

I would not, but of course my kids are older now. If WC was going around locally, I would consider it. I had a friend that had a baby in May and she did the same thing. My 11 year old daughter was the only one who could hold the baby because she had just gotten her booster recently. I completely understood though. So I stayed clear even though I knew I was fine.

It is absolutely their choice. I don't think you should take it so personally. He is not demanding you get a shot, he is just asking you to make sure your immunizations are up to date if you want to have contact with his baby. Let's face it some people are not as considerate as you are and don't wash their hands, etc. before handling a newborn.

After you see a pic, you may reconsider!! I'd want to get my hands on my nephew, so I'd probably spring for the shot. Check your local clinics, often you can get them for almost nothing . . . Keep us posted!

I can understand their mindset. A child born in the winter cold is susseptible to colds, the flu, whooping cough, and more. While kids born in the warmer months have time to build their immunities before being at risk. Especially if the child is a newborn.

Yes, washing your hands before holding a newborn; not being around a newborn while you have a cold is common sense, but I had relatives visit that obviously were sick and got mad when I wouldn't let them near my kid.

With all that said, it is extreme to request this. Especially since the baby will be going in to a doctor's office for checkups, the grocery store, restaurants where they will have to walk through germ filled air.

Here, kids entering the 6th grade have to get a TDaP booster before they can get their class schedule in Sept.

Exteme, borders on a little nutty.

I would not get the shot just because they asked. I wouldn't get the shot to see my nephew. I wonder how many will actually do it?

Some people can be a little neurotic I guess, I swore my sister was going to have us all wear the suits they wore in the movie Outbreak when my nephew was born!

J.:

No, I wouldn't do that. I would ask that people wash their hands before handling an INFANT, but no. I would NOT demand that someone get a vaccine to see my child.

I an understand their concern - with whooping cough and pertussis making a come back. However, it's called COMMON SENSE...many people don't have that now...

When did you have your last vaccination? There are some that are good for up to 10 years. If that is the case, you are good to go. I will assume your children have been vaccinated as well. So really....it sounds like your brother is over reacting.....it's not like they are first time parents....is there a risk that they are not sharing with you?

I am really sorry. It sucks that your brother is doing this.

No I don't get vaccines. www.nvic.org check it out & send it to your brother.

IMO this is over the top. However, this is the parents choice to make and you should respect their wishes.

I'd just tell them you got the shot, they will never know. Duh.

Maybe you cut put on one of those disposable medical masks and not touch the baby?

I can see both sides of the issue. I personally wouldn't ask someone to get a vaccine to see my baby. But.....they are the parents and they make the rules about contact or no contact with their newborn. Unfortunately you can be hurt all you want, but unless you want to comply--you won't be seeing the baby.

Just wondering how they are going to "check" to see if people have gotten their vaccine??? Going to get copies of your health records??? My thought on this is that they will most likely settle down after a little bit but since you do have an outbreak, it makes total sense why they would want this. They are thinking in the best interest of their newborn--not anyone else's comfort. Good luck.

My grandson was born with Pediatric Primary Immune Deficiency Syndrome. They were all called Pedi-Pumpkins. His doctor could not figure out why he suffered from failure to thrive. It took six months before all the test results were in and they said he had IVG 2 and 4 and so on missing from his body.No one in the family was allowed around him unless they had the flu vaccine. He was hospitalized several several times and given Vancomycin (the antibiotic of last resort because it can destroy your organs) to save his life. He had to have the IV infusion once a month to build up his immune system. Things that would make others sick could have killed him. He even cannot have regular blood transfusions. Only washed red cells. I understand where your brother is coming from. Their insurance ran out after a while and they began to sell their furniture to pay for the monthly infusions, $1,265. 00 plus antibiotics and nebulizer and drugs for that. At one time they threatened divorce so my daughter could get the little guy on Medicaid. Is a whooping cough vaccine too much to ask for to save the little one's life? He is 17 now and still has to have all the aforementioned treatments.

This seems quite extreme. Did the doctor recommend this? Are your brother and SIL first time parents? Sometimes first time parents go a bit overboard being overly cautious with everything, and being overprotective with the firstborn until they get the hang of parenting and learn to relax a bit.

Never-mind. I just saw that this is there second child. Were they this overprotective with their first?

I babysit my granddaughter and got it but only because I am with her five days a week.

Their baby will have to go out eventually. I think it is a bit extreme. Wash your hands and if you think you could possibly be getting sick, sneezing, funny throat, stay away. Common sense should be used here.

I suggest that this is another example of parents over reacting. The usual and effective way to protect a baby is to ask people to not visit if they're sick. So if you have a cough then don't visit or if you've been around anyone who has been sick, don't visit.

Yes, there are several whooping cough cases reported in Washington. I live in Oregon and see this. There are very few cases overall and unless you have been exposed to whooping cough you will not be getting whooping cough. It's not like you'll be exposed by going to the grocery store.

statistics: Washington state has a population of approximately 7,725,000. That's nearly 8 million people. From mid 1911-mid1912 there have been 3,000 cases. That computes to .04 % or less than half of a percent of the population has gotten whooping cough. I suggest that it's next to impossible for you to get whooping cough.

If they won't listen to reason, I suggest that you can get a shot at your county health department for nothing or next to nothing. You can get your daughter's shot there too. I recommend that you do get her the flu shot. She needs it.