When Is Enough Enough? (School Homeowork)

If he did his 9 yr old best, which isn't ever perfect, & the teacher changed the "rules" after he handed it in, I think I would thank her politely for her recommendations, tell her you'll keep them in mind for next year, but you're all proud of the work he did & it'll stay the way he originally did it. I would give him the option to change things before you talk to the teacher. My nearly 9 YO is a sensitive soul & if he worked on his break only to find out it wasn't good enough, it would crush him.
As for the conclusions, let them stand. It was his project, those are conclusions he came to-right, wrong or "wrong".

Tell the teacher how you feel and leave it at that. I would have a problem with her dictating the conclusions as well.

L.

Fix it and if he has a reason for the conclusion, present a good argument. As far as values go, have him do, it will teach him to be responsible and when he receives a good grade, he can be proud of it. Maybe her suggestions are worth while.

I would say "my son worked very hard on this through Spring Break as per the instructions we were given, and we are therefore submitting it 'as is'."

Reminds me again why I love homeschooling (my children attended traditional school for a long time though).

I'm all for respecting the teacher and going the extra mile - but it sounds like your son already did that! And you sound like a parent who supports that concept (good for you). I just think there becomes a point where the nit-pickiness starts to overwhelm a child's natural love for learning.

He's not going for a PhD for heaven's sake . . . he's 9 years old!

Good luck and great question.

Ask the Teacher and tell her the same thing you said here... because that is a very good question... and at a certain point, when does it become sabotaging for the child? And will anything ever be good enough?

I'm sure she is just presenting "suggestions"... but then does that mean if you don't do ALL of her suggestions, he will get marked down? Or what DOES she want?

I would ask her.

I agree with S H, talk to the teacher about it. Maybe you can come to an agreement over what to do together. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for the teacher to suggest that a couple of small changes to be made, but if she is asking for a lot of things that weren't named as requirements for the project, you shouldn't have to go to a lot of work to please her; after all, it is your child's project, not hers. Perhaps if you told her what you said here, especially about not wanting to change your child's conclusion, you can come to an agreement about just a couple of things to change, but not so much that your child feels that his best effort wasn't worth anything.

I think that you do it. And I think that you do it not because she is right, but because she's the teacher and in this case she makes the rules. OR you tell your son that you think he did a great job, and he doesn't need to make the changes, but that he has to be willing to live with the consequences of possibly a poor grade.

Such a huge part of being in school is learning the interpersonal communication piece - not only with students, but also with "bosses." This is a good opportunity to have the "I know it's not fair - how would you like to handle it" conversation.

I strongly caution you against doing the work yourself or "complaining" to the teacher about her expectations. Again, not because your intentions are wrong, but because I think that's sending the wrong message to your son. In this case, I think that it's wrong to teach him that he can have his cake and eat it too (i.e. not do what the teacher has asked him to do and not suffer any repercussions).

Again, I'm not saying that the teacher is right, but sometimes we have to learn constructive ways to work with people who make unreasonable requests.

Good luck.

I totally understand where you are coming from and I think I might be able to shed some light on the subject partially from experience and partially from my best friend who is a 4th grade teacher.

I will start with my experience, my son is in 4th grade and has been doing the science fairs for school since 1st grade even though it wasn't required at that age. When he hit third grade he had a teacher that openly picked on him. His science project that year was way over and above what the other kids in class did, yet she sent it home saying it needed more work. Believe me when I tell you I am not just being a mom and bragging about how great my kid was and how awful this teacher was, he did an electrical circuit that kids could test their steadiness skills and win a prize. He also built a board with color, photos and all the required hypothesis, data and conclusions required by the teacher. It was ridiculous. In short, I walked into this classroom with the project and made her show me exactly what was lacking on his project and had her show me specifically what the other kids in the class did that did not require a redo. She was unable to support her request to redo it and he got an A.

Now, this situation leads me to two comments, I do not think that all projects require a confrontation with a teacher. This teacher is a problem and has been for years. I do believe that if your son is asked to work further on something then you need to help him to clarify where the disconnect is. In short, teach him to take on the challenge and meet the requirements. Teach him to ask questions, not to just get disgruntle and angry about it.

One of the things you mentioned is that the teacher is adding requirements after the fact. I need to turn to a conversation I had with my teacher friend on this one. I went to dinner with her one night very frustrated that my son was getting what his school calls "correct and returns". Like you, I felt like my son and myself did not have the proper information to do it right the first time, like things were being changed mid-stream. My friend said that this was the biggest complaint she has from parents and she consistently finds it odd that the kids act like they are clueless on direction. Over and over again she will give the directions, tell them to write it down and over and over again they come back with their projects incomplete. In short, she feels she is being VERY clear on direction and half the kids miss it, so it is possible that this is a two-way street. The only way to find out is to talk to the teacher about your concerns.

One thing I know for sure is 3rd grade is the start of the transition from fun school to hard-core academics and 4th grade is almost brutal. You have an opportunity to teach you son a very valuable lesson. He will experience this type of situation many times in his life, even through his career life as an adult. Whether the teacher forgot to give full direction or whether he didn't remember them, the fact is this teacher has given him a chance to make his work better. I think if you have the chance to help your child learn to take what he has accomplished and push forward then you have a win win situation.

I read a book recently that covers the fact that a lot of times in our lives we settle for "good enough" and never reach our full potential. If only we stopped, looked at our accomplishments and thought "how do I make this better" will we ever really reach the excellence we know we can be.

One last thought, I know this is long, sorry, after 3rd grade and having such a horrible experience with my son's teacher I decided to pull him out of that school. This teacher had me convinced that he should repeat 3rd grade and he was too far behind (he did not demonstrate this to me at home or on his homework and had been in the GT program the year before). I had him checked by the doc and then had him tested by 4 different nationally accredited programs to see where his aptitude was. He scored across the board in the 85th percentile and higher. Not really a kid that needs to repeat 3rd grade. This year he is in a private school which was a full year ahead of the public schools on curriculum. I was horrified that this would be above his head and too much to ask of a 9 year old, but you know what? He prevailed. Finally in the 3rd quarter of this year he is on the Merit Role. Many times he has had to redo work sometimes and even work I don't think warrants a redo. Many times he is frustrated and upset that he did his best and had to redo it anyways but as the year moves on, he is getting less and less, and doing better and better work. Work I never thought he would be capable of at 9 years old.

Ya know what though, I am thrilled that I have moved forward and have told him to do it, I am so happy I am not selling him short. He may have done his best on the project but I know that he can rise to the occasion and do even better. Remember his best yesterday is not a good as he can do today. Every day these kids learn more and every day your son's teacher wants him to be the best he can be.

If you have to lose some time and help him on his project, then help him. Help him get it right, don't give him an excuse in the future for mediocrity. Teach him to do the best he can even when the person giving the direction is off a bit. Encourage him when he has to do work again, it may not be the most fun thing but his confidence and sense of accomplishment when it is over will be what sticks with him.

Good luck! Believe me I know how hard it is, sometimes I feel like I am doing 4th grade all over again. = )

I totally agre, I have major issues w/ school systems and that is one reason why after i got my degree in edu. I have decided not to teach, I also fear the day my child is in school! I would try to talk to the teacher, calmly, and explain the situation. I like that your husband said a family project, but I would not recom. doing it for him he should do as much of it as he can. Is there a way that you can pick and choose what you do, that way you dont have to work around the clock on hw? or are they all requirements? I dont understand why the rules were changed? I would deff. ask her about that as things should be clearly outlined for students and parents, that is completly unfair and if that really is the case the teacher honestly needs to plan things out better and make sure her students are better prepared so that they can be successful. If she did change things then you can tell your son that you did what she said and are now done and he will get what he gets for a grade. I know it might be hard but it is not good to down the teacher around your child bc then they might start not respecting the teacher and you will have behav problems as a result. good luck and I am glad to hear that you just want to make things better for your son.

personally, I would have my child redo and fix the things that the teacher has asked for. This is not about what you want, it is about teaching your child, that although he did his best with what he knew, he has the opportunity to learn and stretch, to grow to greater heights. It has the potential to teach him to look outside of the box, to make things better. Also, I have always taught my children, that even if they disagree with their teachers, they will do much better in school if they give their teachers what they ask for. Later on in his life, he will do better by learning to do what the boss asks him to do.

I would do what the teacher suggests. Do you want your child to start getting into the habit of questioning what his teacher says all the time? Do you want him to think that he doesn't have to do schoolwork because you say he doesn't have to? That kind of thinking won't get him very far in the real world. Of course you don't want your son to be a non-thinking sheep, but at age 9 he needs to do what his teacher (not you) expects of him.

hmmm, tough one. I read the responses and i'm not sure i agree about you as a parent contacting the teacher, I think sometimes we jump in and negoiate for our kids and take away their opportunity to learn life lessons.

I might be reaching here, but by chance did he present it to the class as sort of a rough draft sort of thing where the children as a group could give advice, and maybe the teacher just compiled the ideas???? Are you sure he had all the directions ahead of time?? Is the teacher always like this??

I guess i might change some but not all, specifically not the conclusions.
Sorry for this situation. I hope it doesn't have a negative impact on your sons learning, science projects have the potential to be soo much fun and this is pretty yucky.

Ah, science fairs, the cause of so much angst...

1) The Conclusion. I would say, "hey, let's talk about your conclusion. Why do you think it's correct?" As long as he can defend his conclusion, that's all that matters.

2) Review all the little easy changes recommended by the teacher. At least she took the time to review his work and try to help him improve. This might be a time to talk about how sometimes, even though we don't agree with people, we can compromise.

3) Then go out for ice cream and call it good! He is only 9!

P.S. Doing his work for him is totally, completely a BAD IDEA. It sends the wrong message, "we'll bail you out whenever things get tough, and you aren't capable of figuring this out yourself." Do you still want to be doing his homework in high school? Fill out his college applications? File his taxes for him when he's 25? It's a slippery slope.....LOL.

WOW...I applaud the teacher for sending it home and suggesting corrections. Soooo many teachers in our area leave kid's work alone and NEVER advise them to correct mistakes or put in a better effort. Teachers should push the kids to go above and beyond. Kudos to the teacher!!!

Also, someone posted that $8 is a lot for a poster board, or something like that...
well, raising kids cost money, so people have to look at the lives they lead and make responsible decisions on whether or not they should have kids and how many and be able to support them. Luckily, PS is free, but that is teacher instruction education, not all the "neccessities". Too many people in this country lately think that "we are owed" this or that from the gov't. It is not the governments job to take care of us--it is their job to protect us from harm and to ensure that each state can enact it's laws. Sorry to vent--but people always looking for a hand out bug me LOL!

Wow this sounds like a great opportunity to teach your son how to work together to solve a problem.

I would suggest that you contact the teacher and set up a meeting for you and your son. Take the time to explain your concerns and ask her to clarify the rules for the project. Use this meeting to show your son that you care about his life and also to keep yourself informed as to his what is going on at school. You and his teacher are a team and should be able to work as one. You are an expert on your son, but she has been assigned his education, so it is in everyone's best interest to work together.

She may have changed the rules part way through without actually realizing it or your son may not have truly understood what the project rules were from the beginning and it may have been somewhere in between, but you will never know unless you talk to the teacher.

I would strongly recommend that you talk to the teacher before you make any changes and setting it up as a meeting where you can address things calmly gives your son a great example of how to deal with a confusing situation in the future without have to "give in" or "stand his ground".

Good Luck

I'm just wondering what conclusion he had vs. the conclusion offered by the teacher. Playing Devil's Advocate, it seems to me the teacher is trying to help a student do his best. Isn't that what we all want teachers to do? Based on what you wrote it seems more like a teacher presenting a personalized teaching moment for a student.

Objectively, as an adult, what do YOU think of the conclusion? If your son had done more research/detailed experiment/etc. would he have come to a better/different conclusion, possibly one more matched to what the teacher said? At 9 years of age doing your best and coming up short is not a failure, it is a sign that an adult is needed to provide guidance and help you learn more. No one learns in a vacuum, especially 4th graders.

I think all of us mamas would offer better input if we knew more concrete details about your son's specific experience.

I suggest doing what the teacher asks. I have 3 kids and one graduating high school. the kids today have to learn to respect their teachers and authority within reason of course. But kids need to learn that life isn't always fair and sometimes they have to do what is required even if they might not agree with it. In college and in their own future jobs they will be asked to do things they are not happy about or maybe not comfortable with. But going above and beyond sometimes teaches them things about themselves and gives them self confidence. Giving them opportunity to improve on the project is a good thing. Because the teacher sees more in your child.

if you don't care about the grade for this specific project, i say, take your son out to congratulate on a job well done.
listen my kids are in kindergarten and i can already tell i will be pretty upset every time these projects come our way. what is up with 'parent' projects presented by kids? you can tell those aren't projects done by kids. they're done by parents. who is getting graded? the teacher should have been happy with what was presented to her, not change rules, and decide to go another direction. if i were you, i'd send an email to her, and explain that the project was done solely by your son, and if he were to change it now, it will be a joint project, something that you would like to avoid if possible, because your son will know this isn't his project, it's his parents' project. he won't take as much pride in it as he does now, with his original product.
i totally understand you.
good luck

Since your child did most of it independently (yay!), have him make the changes independently, and then let the results be whatever they are.

If you do it for him at this point, that will be telling him what HE did isn't good enough, and that will be a really bad message.

I learned, finally, that the work should be their own. It's all about THEIR effort.

You're on the right track.

I agree about the conclusion part, how can this chang?? If your not worried about the grade take this second assignment as constructive criticism go over the suggestions with your son and see if he agrees with the changes or is proud and content with what he has done and willing to accept a lower grade.

Well, I just want to say that the Science Project is one of the things I think is wrong with the system (ok, one of them).
First of all, you are pretty much forcing parents to go out and spend $ on something that is school related. Public school is supposed to be free, right? What about the people that do not have that extra money to spend on a $8 card board display board? I made the boards out of an old box for my 2 children - but the inclination to have to buy one is enough to get me going.
Sure, some projects can be made with household products already at the home, but still.
No, science projects should be done at school - where the TEACHER can explain what happens with the different projects (perhaps as a group exercise) - with supplies bought by the school.
My children both did their projects on their own (as noted that they should) but on the day that we brought it in - at least 80% of the projects were being set up/worked on by the parent in the room that we were setting up in.
My daughter had written her stuff by hand (she is in first grade). Yes, we have a computer, but we said to her that it is better if you write it - otherwise noone will believe you did it.
Needless to say - someone in her class that OBVIOUSLY had his mother do most of the work ended up getting the first price.
The display board was all typed up in many different fonts and colors (I mean come on!) and it was at that point I said to my children that they will NEVER have do another science project - I don't care what the grade point is.
Ridiculous! The science part should be handled at school - end of story. Enough already!

He did his best and it was primarily independent work. I would let your son make the decision, and then let him take care of the rest, entirely on his own. Allow him the opportunity to do more, or leave it the project as it is. I would not have him change his conclusion, under any circumstances, unless it is to one that he arrives at naturally on his own.

I too am a parent that does not focus on grades. I would allow this to be an exapmle of you living that out and following your son's lead and being okay with his decision.

Unfortunately, this is life. As unfair as it is to a 9 year old, look at it as a life lesson. In all of my years of school, and now work, I don't think I have ever handed anything in that hasn't been corrected to a degree. I do database work, and I am constantly running and re-running reports to meet specifications that constantly change...that's just life, and I would encourage you to allow your son to do the work not your husband. If your husband does the research you are teaching your son that he can get away with not doing work and still succeed.

With saying that I do agree with the below about talking to the teacher. Maybe next time (unfortunately at the sacrifice of your son's class) she will be more specific on how much research has to be done and so on.

Good luck!

One way to look at it is what can he learn from this? Maybe changing the conclusion isn't right unless she found something faulty in it that he needs to look at again. How many times have you taken something you worked hard on to your boss and they have asked for some things to be re-worked? In a work environment doing your best isn't always enough. Do you want your child to learn that lesson now in a caring environment or when he is an adult? Sometimes it is hard to take criticism but when someone else looks at a piece of work that you have completed and has ideas to make it better there can be a lot of lessons to learn.

Talk to the teacher, share your concerns, and come to a mutually satisfactory solution. Open communication is the best way to make sure that your son gets what he needs, and you can also understand where she's coming from. She, on the other hand, can also understand where you're coming from.

Teachers are people too, and they don't always realize what they are doing to a family. However, you may not see the whole picture, either.

ooooh, I take issue with a science project conclusion being changed, just as a matter of scientific principle. Honestly, 9yo what is that 3rd or 4th grade, I would let it go. I will never forget the fairytale castles that the 1st graders made and my son did all his work, whereas, a 90% of the castles came in so neat, beautiful, historically accurate (except where the student put in My Little Pony or Star Wars character), that it was quite obvious the parents did more than help.

Congratulate you son on a job well done and go out for ice cream.
S.