Tired of Family Borrowing Money>>>

You say "NO!" That is the only way. I wouldn't give them a cent, and that's what you're doing -GIVING them money. I hope you don't actually think you're going to see it again, because it will be a miracle if you do. Just about the fastest way to ruin a relationship is to start "lending" friends or family members money. If you ever give them money, make it a gift and never intend on seeing it again.

Don't complain to people about this. Just stop loaning it. What do you expect us to think? You stop loaning it, and they'll stop using you as a bank.

Dawn

You have he ability to control this, but you aren't!! The only way to do it, and have it stick...is to say NO...and MEAN IT. Trust me, when they realize you aren't going to give them money, they will leave you alone. That's terribly sad, but it's the truth. Users only stick around when they can use.

They are skiing and drinking and you need to ask this question???

I would not lend them another cent. Like someone else said, I will be surprised if you see your money after this tax return. Regardless -- they need to learn to live on what they have, not borrow.

You say no and mean it, they don't ask after that.

You have to say No. Someone pointed out last night that it's a super simple sentence.

I would tell her, "No. You currently owe me $4300. I am not making you another loan." The fact that they already owe you THOUSANDS is enough to not give them any more.

If they can go skiing or drinking, they can repay you. You are not a bank. Let them get a credit card and deal with that, plus interest.

My sister got very upset when she was in college that I would not cosign on a lease for her and a friend I didn't like. I was in no position to pay another rent if they defaulted and the friend had stood me up on concert tickets prior (not an enormous amount, but it told me she was unreliable and not an amount I wanted to lose). Sis figured it out, got her apartment, etc. They are just using you and it's time to cut them off.

Banks are all linked. If she can't find a branch of her own bank, she needs to grow up and find a new bank where she is. If she wants to draw money from an account somewhere else, she can pay the ATM fee like everybody else. Her lack of planning is not an emergency on your part.

If you "like helping" but are frustrated in being taken advantage of, step back and think about it. WHY are you allowing them to use you? What do you get out of it and is it a healthy way to have a relationship? If your relationship is only based on what you can currently do for them, then it's not healthy.

I frankly expect them to come up with an excuse why they can't give you all their tax money - and sometimes people count on refunds they don't get (we've been caught short in the past). If that happens, you need to have a plan, but no more money TO them!

If you are financially well off and your family is not (or not as), I would advise you to start covering up your wealth, don't loan money and don't give overly generous gifts. Tell them you got hit by the stock market, or medical bills, or an old school loan. But don't get in the position of being the family benefactor because it will come back to bite you. I am a grandma that comes on this site from time to time, saw your question and had to respond. All my life I have done more for my family than anyone ever should. It disempowered them. Disempowered people than have to start striking at you in order to feel better about themselves. There were never strings attached to what I did for that, I didn't expect anything in return -except maybe their love which I ultimately lost. That's right, I became marginalized by my family after years of generous financial support and assistance. Giving or loaning people money makes them feel bad about themselves and leads to them having to attack your character to feel better about themselves. Keep your finances a secret from your family and let all the grownups in the world find their own way to deal with their lives and/or their consequences of life. Support them emotionally, not financially. My husband told me this a long time ago (he'd lost his family for the most part,too) and I thought it would never happen in my family. But it did and it does to many. Forge emotional bonds with family, not monetary binding. Good luck.

You have to say no, and given your generous track record, you are going to have to say it repeatedly for awhile.
If you give in - even once - the begging will escalate.
Eventually they will stop asking but it's not going to happen over night.
Establish a goal - something special for yourself - a vacation, a pool table - something you've always wanted.
Instead of loaning out the money, put it into your special goal account.
It's not a crime or anything to feel guilty about when it comes to saving the money you worked for and earned for your own needs and pleasures.
Your sister and other family members can go earn/save their own money and leave yours alone.

You've gotten a lot of responses so far, but I have one more that I didn't see here (though, I only sort of skimmed your answers).

First, I agree that you're probably not going to see a lot of that money come back. I never assume that any loan paid to family is ever coming back. If it does, wonderful! If it doesn't, well, that's my price for having a good relationship with my family.

Next, ask them what they need it for. A girlfriend of mine used to ask me for money. Until I started paying it directly to her power company. Suddenly, she couldn't use it to get her nails done or hit the bar anymore, and guess what? She quit asking me. This way, if you think they really do need help, then you can give them what they need. If this is just them wanting play money, the problem will probably solve itself.

Number One~it does not matter how secure you are it is their responsiblility in life to take care of themselves. They are not borrowing money to put food on the table and staying home, they are doing it to party. I would not loan them another flipping dime. Everyone has to work for what they want. Another thing.....Do you really expect the irresponsible people that borrow your hard earned money to give you that much of their tax return? If they don't pay it back, send them all 1099's for tax time next year so they can count that money as income. Good luck to you......Never a borrower or lender be.....

You are enabling them. Stop.

Say no. Let them be mad. They will have to be adults & yes, they will have to figure it out on their own.

If a family member were in DIRE need, that's one thing. If they are asking for money because they misspend it, they don't need to be borrowing anything.

You dictate how people treat you. Right now you are a sucker, plain & simple. And if you think you're getting any of that 4300 back, you're living in dream world.

This is really something that you and only you can put a stop to. Why would you loan money to someone that's skiing and drinking?

It's one thing to be generous. The bible tells us that we will reap what we sow. So giving and lending even is okay. But it is not okay to give anything you can't afford to lose. And it's not okay to give it to someone that's going to be irresponsible with it if you know them well enough to know what they are doing. You are just enabling them to live a mooching, leaching, lifestyle.

Why don't you want to say no? Have you always given your children everything they ask for? Are you afraid they will be mad at you if you don't? It doesn't sound like you are giving them money for anything important like housing or food or medical bills. Please update your "what happened" because this is confusing to most of us. As per the responses below, you JUST SAY NO and be done with it.
Your kids are using you like a human ATM machine :(
ETA: OOOPS, I just re-read your post, I misunderstood, I thought it was your grown children you were giving money to.
Either way, stop giving them any money until you are paid back in full!!!

Evidently it's hard for you to say no to family members. So you're just going to have to tie up your money. See to it that you just won't have any extra cash available. Put it in a separate savings account, or ask your husband to bank it in his name. That way you can honestly say, "I don't have any extra money. Sorry."

I've read a few responses that recommend Dave Ramsey, and I wholeheartedly agree. As Dave would say, "You aren't helping your family, but enabling them, just like giving a drunk a drink."

If I were in your place, I would forgive the debt. Let them know that you won't require them to pay back the $4300 from their tax return, PROVIDED THAT they complete Financial Peace University, within the next six months. If you don't see the certificate of completion in six months, they will not receive any more "help" from you.

Best wishes and happy new year!
M.

****Nobody can take advantage of you without your permission.**** Write that down and put it next to your phone, in your wallet and in your checkbook.

They won't love you any less when you say no. They are simply manipulating your *fear* of that. And if they actually do stop loving you - what exactly have you lost but a scam artist?

Say "No thanks, I can't do that anymore". That's not a lie - for your mental health, you cannot. And you do not owe them an explanation of YOUR finances. When they ask why not, "I wish I could, but I can't. So tell me about what's up in your life."

google dave ramsey (I love that guy). You can listen for free online at daveramsey.com I believe 1-4 (central time)

I say your New Years Resolution is to be to stop lending money. It is your money, you earned it. Are they not working, or just always a little short for the extras? Sounds like you are being taken advantage of. It is up to you if you want it to continue. Personally, they owe you a lot right now, and until they start making payments of some sort I would cut them off. Are they really going to get that much back in taxes, and then pay you back? I doubt it if they are already irresponsible.

As hard as it may be, you will have to learn to say no. I know it is hard and you want to help, but it is just enabling them and you are their "scapegoat", per say. I just came out of a situation like this and I just finally said no more money and that is that. They were not upset, but I was prepared for them to be mad, just in case.
Also, do NOT expect them to pay you back. It will be GREAT if they do pay you back, but I'm thinking they are not good with money and won't think twice about not repaying you.
Sorry. Just my two cents,
R.

I never loan money to family. The old saying goes, never mix business with pleasure. This is one way that comes into play.

You need to quit loaning them money until they repay the $4300. If they have the money to go skiing, or go drinking, then they can repay you.

C.:

I'm sorry - you are enabling them to be lax and carefree with their money and know you will take care of them.

Stop loaning them money. It will be hard. But STOP.

SHOW them how to handle their money and be responsible for it.
Show them how to budget.

I'm sorry - but if I loaned someone money and they go out skiing for the day? They don't need my money. Especially if this was a constant thing. Do I loan money out? Yes. I do. I only loan out what I cannot afford to lose because I don't EXPECT the money back....I know what it's like to be low on funds....having kids, etc. but I would be upset if they went out partying and skiing when they owe me money.

Skiing is NOT a cheap sport. Gas to get there. Lift tickets. Food.
Drinking? Not cheap either.

The best thing you can do is say NO. Show them how to handle their money responsibly and live within their means. As long as you give them money - they will not learn.

I doubt very seriously you give your children money every time they ask. Is it hard to say no to them?

I would start using my excess money and investing it - buy savings bonds that tie the funds up for at least a year...buy stocks...something so that when they call you can say - all my money is tied up right now.

Give them books by Dave Ramsey or Suze Orman...give them the tools to help them succeed so they don't have to call you every time. THAT is the best thing you can do for them!

Say "I can't afford to lend that you to right now. Money's tight for me too."

Skiing? On your dime? That'd piss me off.
Drinking? On your dime? That'd be the last time I loaned them money. I'd just say that "I can't afford your drinking habit." or "I can't afford your skiing vacation when I didn't even take a vaction myself last year."

Yes. That is the only way. And by the way. They won't be giving you much (if any) money from their returns. How do I know? They're still broke. They need the money.

Golden Rule Number One: Don't Loan What You Can't Afford to Lose. ('cause unless you loaning to the most responsible person in the universe, you're gonna lose the money).

Here are a few ways to say no:

If you're strong:

1) When you get a text, NEVER respond to it. EVER.
2) When someone asks, say, "No". Don't discuss it further.

If you feel you need to justify yourself:

3) Say, "Sorry, I do not have the money." Lie if you want about reasons why you don't have the money. But honestly, unless you're rich and have your entire retirement, emergency fund, and lifelong budget securely in place, you really don't have the money for this. And if you do, then just keep lending and don't battle yourself over it.

4) Use the fact that they will not give you their tax refund (and they won't) as your excuse to stop loaning. Stick to it. Wait for proof if you must that you're not getting re-payed, or start the "no loans until I'm paid back in full" rule now. Don't worry, you'll never have to loan again.

If you want to prevent confrontation:

5) Out of the blue, just say, or text (hee hee) "Hey, Guys, just so you know, starting NOW in the new year, I'm not loaning out anymore money. I am saving for something for myself, and I can't and I won't. So don't ask."
Don't discuss it further.

Puhleez, no one even asks me for money because they know I would never say yes. (unless it was my most trusted friends-who have yet to need the help) Likewise, I never borrow from anyone.

You're only doing this because you don't want to be made to feel bad. you know you're not helping them by doing this. They would not help you if the shoe was on the other foot.
Stop.

Start the New Year by paying down your debt. Your debt is your family. They are a drain on your finances. Just like Dave Ramsey says, cut up the cards. In YOUR case, you need to cut the chord. Just say No. No to charges on your credit cards = no to loans that won't be repaid in 1 week's time.

As for the one going skiing. If you have money to go on trips, then you shouldn't be borrowing money from family... For the one that just drinks it away, that is a whole other issue, but again, the first step is cutting off the cash.

As for them giving you their tax returns to repay the loans, GET IT IN WRITING!! Hopefully you have all of the loan information in writing. If not, get it in writing. Get the fact that they owe you $4300 as of Jan. 1, 2012 in writing.
Get them to vow to repay you within 10 business days of them depositing or cashing the refund check. Since you don't know how much their refund will be, if the refund is more than $4300 will you expect full payment? If the refund is less than $4300, will you expect their full check towards the balance? Or will say 50% or 75% be an efficient start?

Again, get everything in writing. We had family that helped part of the family move. Family A paid almost $2000 for Family B move. Family B said that when they got the tax refund, they would pay Family A back. Ok, fine. Nothing was in writing. Its family and your word is your word. Come time for the refund, Family B did NOT pay Family A a dime. Their refund would've covered the payoff. The splurged on Season Passes to the Amusement parks and a romantic trip for mom and dad. When asked about it, 'oh well we had things we wanted or needed to do with that money'. ... So did Family A. I don't know for sure that the loan hasn't been repaid, but I'm pretty sure that it hasn't.

I would be surprised if they pay you $4300 from the tax return! Never loan out money that you can't afford to lose. IMO of you continue to lend them money you will end up hurting your relationship instead of helping them. Everytime they take a trip, or buy something, tell you about outings, you will be thinking "why can't they pay me back?"

Stop being the bank.

As long as you enable them for not being responsible for their own money and you keep bailing them out.. the cycle will not stop..

If you have a family and children it is your priority to make sure YOUR family is properly cared for. What about your children's college funds, your retirement... a vacation you have saved for and deserve for your children............you are only making yourself lose here if you keep being the bank.. SAY NO You owe no explanations.

Also, don't count on them repaying with tax refund unless you have that firm and in writing. I don't know your family but sounds like you have been taken and are still being used by someone who does not appreciate your responsibility to your family.

Don't lend people money with the idea that you will get it back. If you are not living debt free, and you don't have your children and your retirement set up then you can't afford to be giving your money away. Get some courage and say NO

ETA: Just ready your SWH. SO WHAT... if they know your financial situation. You can still say no. You are being used and only you can stop it. It sounds like you are enjoying it to a point but also jealous of what they are doing with the money. They are not responsible and you are an enabler. We too, are very comfortable financially and we will not loan money to anyone. We are asked by a specific family member often and just say no. We busted our butts to get where we are on our own and financially stable and we are not giving money out to people who waste it. It would be another story if something legitimate such as a health expense were incurred.

After your SWH, I think you like the power. I do you you are repaid but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I don't think I could hand the $100's over when knowing they are skiing or drinking. If they can afford to do those, they can afford to not borrow. And I wouldn't count on them repaying you after their tax return. They've probably already wasted that away before even getting it. Sorry to be negative, but the old adage, "never loan money to friends or family in hopes of seeing it again" usually falls true in circumstances like yours. You are not a bank. Time to tell her that sentence with a follow up of how much she already owes you. It's called, "tough love". Hope you have a happy new year!

That is wonderful that you are financially able to help your family. It's not so wonderful that they expect you to. I have never expected anyone buy myself and my husband to be responsible for paying our bills. We have borrowed money twice from his father, but we have every intention of paying him back. We now are working toward being able to pay him back. If your family is not willing to make changes to be more financially stable so that don't need to borrow more money, then I don't see anything wrong with putting contingencies on lending them the money. Here are a few suggestions of things you could request:

1. If you are going to be loaning them money, you could request that they attend Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University.

2. You could see if their is any way that they could earn the money that you are lending them so it's not a loan. I know you said they live in Nevada, so that might be more difficult.

3. You could find out which bill your $100 is covering and set up online bill-pay and simply pay your money directly to their bill it is going towards. (because they should be using their own money to drink and go skiing, if you need a loan to do those things, then you probably don't need to be doing it.)

4. You could request that it goes towards a certain bill or debt. Something that will help them get out of debt and be more financially stable so they can pay you back.

5. Request to help them with their finances. Help them get it all organized in Quicken or something, and help them learn how to budget and keep things organized. If they are not comfortable with that, then they don't need your money.

That's all I can think of right now. There is nothing wrong with you making request about what they do with your money. It's YOUR money. Whenever I loan out money, I prefer to only loan it out if I am okay with it never being paid back. Especially when family is involved. Then again, my family never asks me for loans, if I loan it out, it is because I know they are struggling and need it. They have never asked me for money. It sounds like your sister and her children need to learn how to be accountable, so just forgetting the debt might not help them in the end. I hope something was helpful! Good luck!

UPDATE:

The first timeyou say no is the hardest. It's none of their business what you do with YOUR money they didn't make it. In fact tie it up in something so you can't get your hands on it. If you are that generous, I could use some of it to pay my bills since you are in the giving spirit.

Time to cut the money cord. If you have any goals and dreams of your own you will never have them as long as you keep giving your money away. Family is the worst for taking your money and then credit cards.

You tell the family no. No don't give a reason you just tell them you are sorry that you can't help them. I would never give family money for a ski trip or a bottle of booze. Nothing good will come of it.

If you itemize on income taxes perhaps you could consider them as a charitable gift or something because the money is gone and when tax time comes you are at the bottom of the repay list. My daughte found this out the hard way when she loaned a friend some money and still hasn't seen it some 15 years later

Walk away from the money fund. You wouldn't give a stranger money all the time just because. So you must do the same for family and don't let them 'guilt' you into thinking it is your duty. Your family first and then if there is something you might. I would switch banks so they have no ties to you.

Sorry for being so blunt. Are they going to be there to bail you out when you need help? I don't think so.

Have a good year.

The other S.

PS Money loaned would have to be for health reasons or a business not for fun.

You need to stop and say No, then give each person a total of what they owe you and that you expect to be repaid by May 1. (The end of tax season)

Then try hard to mentally and emotionally write off what they owe you because you may never see it again. You need to be able to consider it a gift if you don't want it to fester in your mind and eventually erode your relationships.

If someone came to you with an unavoidable and no-fault need, that is one thing. But repeat borrowing is a sign that you're simply enabling them to continue to be irresponsible and not fix their own problems.

Wow you are a wonderful Sister...but way to wonderful. I could never do this to a family member! Sry to say but I think they are taking advantage of you!

If a family member is having tough times, I think it is very appropriate to help. However, it sounds to me like your sisters are taking advantage of you. If you are so broke that you need to borrow money from your sister, you darn sure shouldn't be going skiing or drinking! That is a luxury; no one is entitled to a fun day of skiing. It's a treat; responsibilities first! You do it if you can afford it. I hate to be so harsh but this is what is wrong with our country and it's economy right now. Our society thinks they are entitled to all of the luxuries out there. It's going to get worse because these people of our generation are raising their kids to have more than they need! I have a friend who is in major debt and complains about it, yet she is on an awesome vacation this week. I have money in the bank and no debt. We treat ourselves on occasion but not nearly as fancy (or as often) as these friends....this is why we are not in debt. I want to slap these people upside the head. Why can't they see it??? If you can't afford to pay your rent or feed your kids, you shouldn't own a cell phone or go on vacation or anything else that isn't a necessity. It's as simple as that. Fun, no but it's reality. Sounds like some of your family members are making bad choices and as long as you continue to provide, they are going to continue to ask. I would stop until she pays you that $4300. That's a whole lot of money. It's going to be an uncomfortable conversation but I feel like you might be enabling them a bit (even if it is something you enjoy doing for those you love). It might be hurting them in the long run, however. You are a really kind person. I know you love your family. They shouldn't be asking you for money this often. Maybe you should encourage them to cut their spending or find a better paying job.

Of course, I don't know your family dynamic, but I feel no obligation to give money to people who aren't trying to be more financially responsible. It's not hard for me to tell them no. I really don't think that you should expect to be repaid. If they are this far behind, any tax refund should be used to get them caught up. If they give it to you, then they'll stay right where they are. Tell them to put it toward whatever bills they have and don't come back to you for money. Period. Anybody borrowing money like that is subject to a good talking to--some questions and advice regarding how they handle their finances. If they won't hear it, they don't get your money. If they are truly interested in bettering their circumstances, then teach them how to be better with their money. Otherwise, let them figure it out without you or without your money. I am fairly certain that if they had to look you in the eye every time they want to borrow money and give an account for how they are spending the money, you might not hear from them as often. Once they take all your money, they'll move on.

I understand that you want to help. If they are able to wipe out the debt with their tax refund, maybe you can set up a new system for the new year... Figure out how much money you are comfortable giving them per year. Not loaning, giving, as in add up how much you would spend on them for birthday and holiday gifts and however much in addition you can just hand over. Tell them up front that you love them but you have a strict budget for this year. Dear sister, I have taken a very hard look at my financial situation, and I am comfotable dedicating X dollars to you and your family this year. I would love to buy you gifts throughout the year, but if it is more important that I help you financially, I am happy to do that. I can make X dollars available to you in an emergency as a gift, not a loan. I believe that this will be better for both of us, as we can eliminate any worry over loan repayments.
To be honest, I have been on both sides of an arrangement like that :) I have found that it works well for both parties involved. It may even help your sister's family stick to their budget, as they know the size of their "safety net."

I never loan money to family. I give it to them. Over $50,000 in the past 20 years. If you need it back do not give it. We have not been able to "loan" for the past few years, and no problem. I would NEVER loan money to a friend or family member --- way too complicated. BUT - If you ever "loan" then get a written agreement -- interest, payment dates, etc.

The only way to stop this borrowing stuff without saying no is to simply give them the money and don't worry about them paying you back. Personally I wouldn't do it. The problem is bigger then a $100 here and $100 there. Are you really helping them by giving them the money?

Yes they will be angry with you for cutting them off and not giving them your hard earned money but that isn't your problem. Is it good for them to mismanange or swander their money and use you to bridge the gap for them to continue the same life style.

You feel stressed out by this because you know deep down inside their life needs to change and you can no longer continue to support their bad habits. Try to stop being codependent and cut them loose before you go down with them.

You give them the money and then you say it drives you crazy? You are the one who has let them know that there is an unending supply of money out there and all they have to do is ask. They know you won't say no because you have taught them that. You limit them to $100 but that just means they have to ask more often. Why shouldn't they go skiing or drinking or whatever? You have taught them that they do not have to sacrifice and make tough choices like most people. They don't even have to make the embarrassing call! They can text you and the money just appears in their bank account! Seriously? Have you bought yourself everything you have ever wanted? Why not? Probably because you have had to choose between a need and a want. Your family hasn't been taught to make those tough choices. If they want something, they just go out and buy or do whatever.

The next question is why do you like helping them out. Do you like having them owe you something? I can't figure it out. If they don't pay up when the tax refund comes in, it should be really easy for you to say that you plan to give the money elsewhere. There are a lot of non-profits out there that I love giving to that really help people, not keep them in a state of entitlement.

My husband is forever giving his family large amounts of money. I say no, he justifies it because he feels guilty as he lives far from them. If someone needs it, then it makes sense. If they need it for something in particular pay for that, do not give the person money. He still doesn't quite understand that. We have loaned them money because brother got drunk and into a car accident, mother does have money but it goes for grand children's internet and television and we have sent 'food' money and it buys new jeans. I don't often buy new jeans. I have settled for second hand things, cheap things and these people just drain us. He doesn't yet understand that they are making choices. And so are your relatives. If you cannot say no, and you worked hard to get where you are, then pay the recipient of what they claim they need. Funny how the requests stop.

If you are loaning them money for responsible reasons, that's one thing, but if you are loaning them money that allows them to act irresponsibly, shame on you! You are not helping them, and in some perverse way, you are getting a kick out of being Ms. Got-Rocks.

You have two choices here. You can either say no, or, if the money is to pay a bill, ask for the bill and pay it yourself. That way, you know exactly where the money is going and they can't waist it on booze or a ski trip. Because of those 2 things, I would personally say- if you can afford a ski trip, you don't need a loan from me.