Sunday School Teachers and Health/Safety Issues

It doesn't sound like he's learning anything - it seems more like an unorganized babysitter. Does he ever show you any work or proof that he's learning anything (except how many sweets you can eat in an hour?)? Are you completely settled at this church, or can you find another one that actually watches the kids and takes your concerns seriously? If this was a daycare while you were at work, or a MDO and had to leave the facility, would you still leave your child there?

The hygiene thing grosses me out too.

I see the quantity of junk the kids are given as a HUGE issue (to me). It's nice they provide food for the kids, but wouldn't it be cheaper to pick up a sack of apples/oranges for the kids and offer them ice water instead?

I seriously limit sugar in my house and I wouldn't want to pick up my sugar jacked kids or deal with the behavior that would follow such a "treat"...

My biggest concern in your post is the lack of room control the teacher seems to have. I would also suggest to the pastor et al, that they inact a SERIOUS check-in/check-out system with the daycare teacher. With the way she is keeping tabs on the kids some weirdo could come into that church snag a kid and no one would be the wiser till it was too late.

Best wishes-

Absolutely legitimate.

Are you too attached to your church to find another one?

First, I would pack my children their own healthy snack for snack time, along with some antibacterial Wet Ones to wash their hands before they eat. I wouldn't worry about the yucky play-doh, because there are worse things! I would just wash their hands after they got out of Sunday School.

Now, as far as the teacher not properly supervising the children in her care........Here is something mean, that I wouldn't really do, but I like to think about: Next time my son was out wandering the halls alone, I'd get him without anyone seeing me, and stash him with my husband or somewhere safe. Then I'd go back to the class and tell the teacher I'm there to pick him up. Then I'd pretend to freak out when she told me she didn't know where he was, and I'd demand that she find him, all the while threatening her with calling the police and negligence and such.

Like I said - I wouldn't ever do it, but I think, boy would THAT teach her a lesson! : ) I guess what I WOULD do is meet with her, and ask her why she consistently allows any child to go out the door. What can she say that is not going to make her look totally inept? Sorry, but I've been a preschool teacher and a Sunday School teacher, and I never had any trouble keeping track of every child in my classes. If she doesn't hear one of them open the door, perhaps a cow bell hung on the knob would be helpful!

I work in our church nursery. Sometimes parents will send their children (7 or 8 years old) to pick up the toddler/preschooler from the nursery. Um, I don't think so! Not on my watch! So I will tell the older child that mom or dad needs to come to the nursery before I release the younger one. And I have had parents get angry with me over this! Really? You'd rather I DIDN'T do my best to protect your little one? We have people wander in from the streets frequently (because our church participates in a homeless shelter program) and any of them could snatch both children and head out any one of the 20 doors that lead outside! I don't understand the way some people think!

Good luck!

You are not all all hypercritical. You have very valid concerns that should be addressed.

Set up a meeting with your pastor and explain as nicely as you can that it is their responsibility to keep your child safe. Just say that under no circumstance is your child to be out roaming the halls (where is her common sense???). And, there should always be 2 (TWO) teachers in a classroom.

Ask what the sterilization processes are (I bet churches are also required to adhere to cleanliness standards). If none in place, ask that they start immediatey and that the playdo be removed.

As far as snacks go, ask that the children receive a sugar-free snack. Every church I've been to has cheerios as their snack of choice.

I am also a Sunday School teacher, and have been for many years. A few weeks ago, in Primary, a very drunk man carrying a large back pack walked in and sat down in the middle of the children's Primary service. It was scary and horrifying and he started behaving in a scary manner, standing up, waving arms shouting about Abraham Lincoln and all sorts of weird things. We had to get a few men to get him to leave. I didn't know if this guy was going to pull a gun out of his bag or what, I mean, it does happen, so I was ready to jump on him.

Also, last year a man from a local apartment complex came into the church, and molested a little boy in the bathroom, and a few years back, a teen girl was confronted by another person in a bathroom. We are a very open and friendly church and do not turn people away who are not members, but we have to be careful and protect the children at all costs.

For these reasons, we do NOT allow children to wander halls. Parents or a much older sibling (like 18 and up) must pick the children up at the classroom. Teachers stay with the child until the child is picked up. If a parent is very late, we will take the child directly to the parent. Children are not allowed to go to bathrooms alone. We get a Sunday school supervisor to escort the child to the bathroom.

I would seriously consider finding a new church. Especially 3 years old, he could be kidnapped, he could get lost, he could wander into the parking lot and get hit by a car. And really, a donut? No, I would not give my 3 year old a donut at church.

For snacks for the young children (4 and under, older kids do not get snacks), they sit at the snack table. We prepare snacks and bring them to them. They get a cup of water, and usually some sort of cracker, fruit gummies, raisins, banana slices... the parents take turns bring snacks so some of them are healthy while others not so much. We try and balance it out.

We have 2 hours of class time for children. It rotates between lessons, music time, and a large group lesson. For nursery (children 18 months through 3 years), they play, do bubbles, color and also have a music and scriptural lesson time.

As for toy hygiene, we do clean the toys with lysol and we got rid of soft toys that cannot be cleaned in that way, kept a few babies or soft toys, but bring them home and wash them. We still use playdough, but not very frequently.

I think the play-doh and some of the snacks are things I would not be concerned about. Your kids will share germs with kids in school, too, or at friends' houses.

I would be *mildly* concerned at all the snacks, but if it's just once a week...maybe teach them that they can only have one. I used to watch a little girl who calmly and clearly told me that she could not drink soda. I am currently teaching my 3 yr old "No, thank you, I'm allergic to apples." (I have told all the staff this, too, but it's good for her to learn).

HOWEVER, the repeated unsupervision of small kids would bother me. If they just assumed that my DD ran off with her sister and no one confirmed it...you should not be finding your young child wandering the building.

It's hard to work with volunteers sometimes. If she is the only one stepping up to do the class, they may be reluctant to ask her to leave. Your options are to find something else for your son during that time (could he, for example, go to the nursery vs the class if that's better supervised?) or to hold off classes for both of you until he's more able to take care of himself.

I kept being told by little old ladies to just leave DD in the nursery, she'd get over it. I refused and sometimes missed church because I didn't want DD to just cry and the nursery lady refused to "bother" me during the service. If no one was going to tell me my daughter never calmed down, then it was no benefit to either of us. I recognized that the nursery lady was not going to change, so I did. Now that DD is older, she goes to her class just fine and is not unhappy when I pick her up in the nursery at the end (the little guys end up there at the end).

If anyone asks why the kid(s) are no longer in class, you can be honest that it doesn't seem to be a good fit right now.

I think you have legitimate concerns. Does the church have a governing body to which you could take them? Individuals, such as those you've already talked with are probably not organized enough to make a difference. You need to have a written policy that covers hygiene, snacks, and supervision.

Many, if not most, day care facilities do not allow sweets for snacks. It's standard policy that can be put in place in your Sunday School.

And letting a young child out of a room without visual confirmation that a parent/approved adult is taking charge is a huge deal to my way of thinking. I would address this issue first. I would be very direct and state to the teacher and the Sunday School Superintendent that your child is to not leave the room without your presence. If she continues to let him leave, I would take it to the church governing board. If something were to happen to your son you would have grounds for a law suit. That might get their attention.

In churches that I've been a member of, we had deacons and deaconesses who made policy for the church. An Alter guild who managed setting up the alter. That sort of thing. I would think that your church has something in their organization that manages church policy. Go to them and insist that some changes be made.

I was a Sunday School teacher at two different churches. I didn't fit with their policy on religious instruction (must use their curriculum as written) and was asked to resign. So I understand that policy is important and must be enforced. It's sad when there isn't a good fit but children's safety is of the utmost importance. She should be given the choice of monitoring the children more closely or resigning. When put that way to her she is likely to understand. She should be praised for her volunteering and teaching but made aware that this is a serious concern.

Set some priorities. Take your post and make a list of the actual issues. The lack of supervision, particularly the letting a child wander out of the room unattended, is clearly priority one.

If this had happened once, it could be put down to one time the teacher looked away, but it has happened repeatedly, you say. And she blithely comments that she "assumed" he had been picked up. This is frankly an incident just waiting to happen. Then it will be a lawsuit against the church. Not pretty for anyone.

First, have you directly talked to this teacher at at time when there are no kids around? Don't address it with her at the start or end of class, or if there are other adults or the pastors standing there. Arrange to meet with her just about this. Briing another supportive parent if there is one -- have other parents found their kids outside the classroom? (I'd leave out the sugary snack problem for now -- pick your battles, set your priorities.) I'd try first having a calm talk with her along the lines of "On X number of occasions I've found my son wandering outside the classroom with no adult in sight. That really worried me. You said on (date Y) that you assumed we'd picked him up. It's pretty dangerous to assume that, don't you think? He could easily wander right out of the building. All these times I found him, but what if there is a time I don't find him in the halls?" Giving her the number of times it's happened and the date she said something puts her on notice that you are paying very close attention. Tell her you are concerned for your son's safety and are considering pulling him out of the class entirely, even if it means you have to give up your adult class (sorry, you may have to play this card and you may have to MEAN it) and even if it means he must sit with you during worship. Then ask her if you can offer some positive changes to her -- Can she can commit to keeping the classroom door shut and locked from the inside so kids can't get out? Would she like to to start a "sign-out" process where no child leaves until a parent enters the classroom, signs initials on a class list in her presence, and she signs off that the child has been picked up by a parent or approved adult? This is done in some camps and classes and other situations. She may get defensive and upset; be prepared for that so YOU do not get defensive and upset; that helps neither of you. If she is very resistant and says "No one values my volunteering," do reassure her you value what she does but you are concerned that this is a REPEATED problem.

If she is very balky you may have to go to the Sunday school board or whoever coordinates things over her head. I would not "throw her under the bus" but would present it as, let's get a better system for ensuring our kids are picked up in an orderly way.

This sounds pretty serious stuff to toss at her but if you arent' raving and yelling, it could give her a wake-up call. Yes, it is very hard to get volunteers and they are just that -- volunteers, not professional teachers. However, this is a matter of child safety.

One other thing -- I think the popped balloon in a nursery is a HUGE problem. I would ask that all balloons be banned if you have mixed ages in the church. Balloons are just not necessary for them to have fun.

Do you have any idea how many children die each year from getting a piece of balloon in their mouth? I take first aid and cpr classes for professional for child care and I can tell you the stories the firemen and police officers tell are not pretty. I don't even allow balloons in my home and the kids are 4 1/2 and 7 1/2.

The piece of balloon is stretchy and if it goes down the throat the first responders can't do anything. NOTHING!!!! The tools only push it further down and the tools they have just slide off the rubber. I think that is a deal breaker for me.

I would ask the kitchen people to make sure all the food is eaten in the food area, these carpets must be nasty...then to make sure all the kids, ALL the kids hands are washed in warm water and using soap before they go to class.

Your concerns are legitimate. I'd start with the most dangerous one, which is probably kids left to wander in the halls, then go down the list (balloons around babies), allergy & sugar/junk food issues etc. I doubt you can change anything unless you are in the inside loop of folks who work with the children and have the pastor on your side. I saw my church change things slowly over time as we got a children's pastor who was educated on these issues. Church workers feel they are making the ultimate sacrifice just being there and want the kids to be happy without too much strain on themselves. People who have been in the system awhile are hard to change. If you had a rules list backed by the pastor and his wife & whoever runs the kiddie programs, a meeting could be called to educate the teachers and parents. Some volunteers might quit but there may be others (probably are) who are also upset by the lax way things have been done. The world is different today and that may be the underlying statement that will push a change. Good luck!

Your concerns are all valid. I helped develop a safety manual for our church and most of the things you listed are addressed in the manual. The most serious one is how your son's teacher always "assumes" that someone picked him up. That's insane! There is NO good excuse.

If you would like a copy of our manual (it's in brochure form), you can private message me and I can e-mail you the specifics. It would be in your pastor's best interests to develop a safety plan for his church. A few of the things you listed are a HUGE liability.

I'm wondering how much learning is going on? My kids stay with me at Church. I teach them on my own about their faith. The older ones go to a Youth Group affiliated with our Church but even then I am there. We have an awesome training program for those that want to teach, but even then there are times I don't care for what happens so I make sure my kids are cared for by the best, their Mom.

Managing volunteers is always tricky...
There's not much that can be done about the play doh, that's just one of those things (like community playground equipment) that will always have an "ick" factor.
The food made me laugh, because I remember going to a church as a kid that we called the "candy" church, they were constantly giving out huge amounts of candy to all the kids, I guess to keep us coming back! Probably your church is doing the same thing, enticing the little ones with sweets. Not cool, but I probably wouldn't make a fuss over it.
I WOULD have a problem with my kids being unsupervised. Does this person not have kids? Instead of going through the director speak with the teacher directly, I think that would be more effective.

Anymore, you can't be too careful about the safety...most churches have some sort of check in/out in the childcare. At our church, the kids get a sticker (on their backs) with a number on them and the parents get the same. There are NO open doors. It is ridiculous that the kids are getting such large doses of sugar, they are unattended and the play-doh...germ heaven! I don't think you are over reacting. Maybe you should volunteer to help fix it. Maybe attend another church that has a good program...we go to Kensington in Troy and love it, to see what they do and take the ideas back to your church...or you could change churches.

I have gone through this exact same issue...and the only way I was able to resolve these issues was volunteering my own time to sit in the Sunday school class and lead by example. However, as annoying as these instances are, 12 ounces of juice probably isn't going hurt. I would suggest to the teachers/director of children's ministries that maybe something "heathier" would be better (and it would help them sit better in my opinion!). If you prefer them NOT have it at all...bring them a healthy snack. That is exactly what I do with all 3 of my children (one has allergies) and I allow them to get water from the drinking fountain. Just go to class with him for a couple of weeks and get a feel for things...Pray about it! You will come to an answer in His time! :)