Sleeping Habits - Kent,WA

My doctor once told me that any habit will take 3 night of misery, then get better. It has always proven true with my kids. (Taking away the passifier, bettime routine, etc.) I think you just need to let him cry it out for a few nights. My daughter had the same problem. 3 nights of crying it out was all it took. Now, she stays in bed and falls asleep on her own. Might sound a little mean, but it is better for him in the long run. We put a fan in the hall, right outside my other daughters bedroom to drown out the noise. In the 3 days, the crying only woke her up once.

Wow, I am always so amazed at all of the "manipulation" fears that moms are so insistent upon passing on down the line to others. Try not to fall into this outdated and damaging idea that seems to be so pervasive in our culture. Other cultures don't have this hangup, but then other cultures also don't have the same attachment disorders and behavioral issues that our culture has, either. I believe that it starts a lot earlier than people imagine, this separation we impose upon our children in order to schedule our lives and fit in with our backwards social norm. With these archaic ideas carried over from the victorian era, and the fifties era, perpetuated by the male medical model of "don't trust your intuition, listen to your doctor instead", we have moved away from the beneficial wonders of breastfeeding, family bed, and respect for your child as a being who needs listening to and understanding until he is old enough to communicate these things on his own in a verbally articulate manner.
You have an 18 month old who is crying out for the NORMAL reason of developmentally appropriate separation anxiety, compounded by the new addition to your household. 18 months is still developmentally an age where you need to be very conscious of the anxiety and fear that comes along with the sought after independence, and if it is met without comfort and fulfillment of those needs for your touch and your reassurance of your nearness, the issue will not go away, nor get better on its own, it will repeat itself more dysfunctionally at a later date and time, even if it seems to go away without response to the communicated need. Obviously, what works for the family as a whole is the best sleeping arrangement. Throw out any fears of making your children wierd by sleeping with them or having them in the same room, open your heart to the very real need that your child is trying to communicate to you. It is not a real solution to ignore your gut, and force your child to cry it out with sleep "training" methods, esp. during a separation anxiety time, and a new family addition time. if you feel like your family sleeps better in separate rooms, fine, just open your mind to the idea that a temporary solution of having a mattress in your room for your older child might be a possibility until he/she feels like he can try to sleep in his own room again. We have a crib that we took one side off of and shoved between the wall and our bed, so it works as a sidecar arrangement for the older child. In your situation I would talk to my husband and share the importance of fulfilling this temporary need, and together brainstorm some ideas that fulfill everyone's need for sleep. We love the extra family time we get together, especially since my husband works so much and doesn't get the kind of quality time with the kids he wants. Sometimes I really need privacy and intimacy with him, but we both know the needs of our kids come first and we make time for that elsewhere. It has actually saved our family and our marriage, because we all get cuddle time as a family, and we get spontanaeous "adult time" in situations and places we wouldn't have tried otherwise! My oldest is ten and fondly remembers her time in the sidecar, and her subsequent graduation to her own special room at 2 and a half. She still would come in and sleep on the floor next to us sometimes, during hard times, or needy times, but overall, she was and is more independent than most kids I know, and is more loving and thoughtful and gentle than most other kids I know, without ever having any serious nightitme fears or issues like some kids have. I attribute that to our efforts with her at an early age to meet all of her developemntal needs beyond what was culturally dictated at the time. I cannot imagine having a young baby in another room, and having to get up multiple times in the night and let the baby cry, and go through getting everyone back to bed over and over. I thank god on a regular basis for having parents that raised me with attachment parenting, and have never regretted practicing it with my kids. The best books on the subject out there are the Sears books, and they are like bibles to me. The Nighttime Parenting book by Dr. Sears is AMAZING and every parent should read it. Plus, its short!
This is also a great opportunity for dad to start getting more involved with the older child and the bedtime routines. Do yourself a favor and don't take it all on yourself!

My daughter is now 30 years old. I hope my insights are of some assistance to you.
As you have a NEW 4-wk old in YOUR bedroom, my first thoughts go to the trauma of your 18 mo. feeling insecure in his importance in the family structure. Also some jealousy about having to sleep in a different room, while the newborn is in with you. Where does the 8 year old sleep? Same room with 18 mo. old?
My husband and I made the pre-goodnight time a constant procedure. One of us stayed in the bathroom as our daughter enjoyed her bath, played with toys, and interacted with Mom or Dad. Then drying her hair (tangles galore) and getting her dressed for bed was her "beauty time". After she was gowned and diapered for bedtime, both parents held her and kissed her goodnight. When she was put in the crib, at first Dad (or Mom) had to stand there, gently patting her back while Mom read the (one only) bedtime story (she usually fell asleep during this time. The parent doing the back patting carefully transitioned from his hand softly on her back to replacing it with a folded receiving blanket. Soft lights were left on, as we backed out of the room. She did already have a special stuffed bunny to hold at night. It took weeks of consistency to get her to understand the process, but it did work. If she awoke again, she was comforted but did not leave that room (unless bodily functions required cleaning).
Now I understand today they have babies placed on their backs for sleep, so that complicates the back patting/replacement with folded light blanket. But I believe if you establish this time as "his bed time routine" while other family members take over the care of the 4 wk old, it should help.
Consistency of location (it is special, it is his alone, etc.) should make a big difference.
If the 8 year old is sleeping in the same room, perhaps that child would enjoy assisting in this special attention time for the 18 mo. old. God bless you all, hope this helps.

Hi M.! Earth's rhythms are in a time of transition, and as we humans are a part of earth, so are we attune to those same rhythms. The younger they are, the more closely connected with the Source children are. It sounds like your little one is transitioning along with the seasons. My children go through this as well, as do I and most other people that I know. Bears are coming out of hibernation, birds are returning from warmer places, etc.

Of course, you could stick with your same routine, but that seems to be going *against* what your child is inherently feeling, against the rhythms of life! Spring and summer are typically times when people begin to move around more, to have more energy, to become more active after a more sedentary winter-time. Babies are not immune to this.

When the days start to get longer here, we typically stay up later. Sometimes we sleep in to recuperate from our late nights, or sometimes we even rise earlier as well, and have naps during the day. Sometimes, we just end up sleeping less.

Over the years, my ideas about consistency have evolved greatly. I used to think that to be consistent I had to do things the same every time, no matter what the cost. After having two children and being a mother for almost 6 years, I have come to realize that life is dynamic, not static. The only consistency is that things change. Especially when our little ones are so little...they are growing and changing at a very rapid rate.

I have learned through many trials and tribulations regarding sleeping, that while it is sometimes a challenge for *me* to deal with late nights, waking up in the middle of the night, long, drawn-out bedtime routines, it is much easier to work within the rhythms of the earth, to work *with* my children, rather than aginst them. To expect that they will need the same things each and every night, and to expect that one will be just like the other, is to expect they are not human. Just as on some nights I have lots of energy and am up for a long playful bedtime, on other nights I am exhausted and have enough in me for a short book and a quick kiss on the head. I've found that the more in tune with my own body and natural rhythms I am, the more they learn to listen to what their bodies tell them.

What has worked for us is this: We have a bedtime ritual that has evolved over time. It involves teeth-brushing, tidying up, playing, massage, songs and stories, prayers and blessings, and sometimes just hanging out and talking about our day, with a curve-ball or two thrown in every once in awhile for good measure. In its entirety, when everything is smooth and everyone is feeling good, it takes anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half. On nights when the kids have an abundance of energy or typically in the summer when there is more light, it may take even longer because there is a lot of playing along the way. On the nights when I am tired, we do bits and pieces, and on the nights when I am completely tapped out, the kids look at books or do puzzles or some other quiet activity, and they play until they fall asleep. They have adapted to this quite well, and regardless of age, have really seemed to intuit and understand when I am just not up for it. Sometimes my oldest will even recommend that I go have some time to myself downstairs while they play because I'm so worn out. They are three and five, we all sleep in the family bed, and there is no pressure on them to move out or sleep without us, until *they* are ready. I trust that they'll know when the time is right. They are little for such a short amount of time and I know that the phases they go through will not last forever. I find that there is really no reason to rush them!

I have found that there are ways to make bedtime work for all of us, it just takes some time and creative thinking. I have realized that the less I try to control the situation, the smoother it is. Someone recently told me that "when there is no forcing, there is nothing for them to push against." I have also learned that what works for me will not necessarily work for them, and it just doesn't sit right in my heart to force my kids into a routine that *only* works for me. What I hope for my children is that they learn to trust the wisdom of nature and the wisdom within themselves, and learn to flow with the current, rather than against it. Kids *will* eventually fall asleep! I know if someone *forced* me to go to sleep before I was ready, no matter how many calm, relaxing things they tried, it just wouldn't happen until I was ready. And I might even get pretty angry, too!

In conclusion, I would say that you aren't *missing* anything! I think you have a little boy who is doing what most little ones at his age do! So many parents seem to find bedtime challenging, and I think it's less about our little ones falling asleep and staying asleep, and more about *us* being exhausted and just wanting time to rest and recover for the next day. My tip for you would be to think about what it is you need, and find ways to meet those needs, enlisting the help of other family members or friends if need be. It may involve thinking outside of the box. Do you need more pampering? More time to rest? More time alone? More time with the new baby? What do each of your children need? How can *all* of your needs be met? What are you willing to compromise on? What is most important to you? What is most important to your kids? Enlist the help of your oldest child. Does s/he have any ideas? Can s/he help out?

And...you have a brand new baby!!! Of course you are tired, and of course your older little one is needing more of you! There's a new one in the house now, and not only is he adjusting to the seasonal changes, but to the big changes that are afoot right in his own home! Be gentle with yourselves and with each other. This is a time of great change for all of you. You may just want to let go of "routine" all together and see what happens! You might be surprised! I find that the more I learn to let go, the more sweet life seems to be. It's a hard lesson at times, but one that brings much more flow and joy into our lives.

Best wishes, and congrats on the new babe!

You have a newborn and an 18 mo. old!!! The toddler is competing for your time and attention. You transitioned him from your bed to his room, he's feeling displaced, so he's needing and wanting more than you can do at the same time with two babies. He's still a baby and you're sleep deprived. Are the cribs for both babies in the same nursery, so you can multi-task? Feed the newborn and be in the room to comfort the older baby? Use a baby monitor in reverse, so the monitor is in his room by the bed so you can sing to him, talk to him while taking care of the new baby. Get him a snuggle buddy, a big teddy bear to snuggle up to. Have Dad share the bedtime routine. Read a book, snuggle him down and dim the lights. (Dimmer switches in nurseries are great things) Separation and displacement, you're stretched very thin. Take a deep breath. Let the toddler help get things for you during the day, involve him as much as possible with mini-tasks to help with the new baby. Picking up toys, bringing you a diaper. Practing quiet time. Have him sit and look at book while, 'reading' to the baby and you while you're feeding the new one. But you need to take the time, make the time as hard as it may be, to give this little guy what he needs. Dad needs to step up and help with both babies when he's home from work. It will be better for all of you.

put the crib, blanket on the floor what ever, (just get some sleep your self) back in your room and let him grow up some befor U take his securty away.Give him a small toy (baby or bear) have him put it to sleep. Just because U have a new baby dosn't mean he is'nt a baby (he thinks).so treet him like U did before the new one came along. them let him know constantly that babys can't do what ever he likes to do as age apropate for him. exam. I guss that U arn't a baby, babys can't drink from a sippy cup,eat on there own use the potty,ect. every thing that he dose that the baby can't do and he can. he will get it that babys can't sleep by them selves.

M.,
Bless your heart for being such a caring mom and spending SO MUCH time with your son and this transition in his life and to have a newborn on top of this! How do you do it?

I am surprised at some of the mom's responses. If you try the SLOW APPROACH you will get SLOW RESULTS. Kids need consistency and a routine. It helps them feel safe and secure. He is old enough to sleep on his own. By you staying in the room he is still getting his way and having the control and he is NOT learning to FALL ASLEEP ON HIS OWN because you are still physically there. For sanity sake especially with having a newborn, you just need to make a firm decision to GET OUT OF HIS ROOM as soon as the bedtime routine is over and stick with it NO MATTER WHAT! Even if he does cry.

His bedtime routine does not have to be over an hour long either. I have stuck with this same routine for the last 2 years with my 3 yr old. This is how it goes: Say "Time to go to Bed", change diaper, put on Pj's, brush teeth, sit on the rocking chair, read 1 book, pray, sing 1 song, give a kiss and a hug, help her in her bed, put on her blanket, give her her sleeping bear, say "night night", turn off the lights, leave the room with the hall light on and the door cracked. This takes maybe up to 15 minutes max and usually within 5 minutes after we leave the room she is already sound asleep all on her own.

When we 1st started this routine we introduced the sleeping bear to her. This may sound strange but I put the little bear in my shirt/cleavage and wore it for a while so it would get my scent and so she could smell me next to her when she'd sleep at night. After the routine we left the room and of course she cried and cried. We would go in from time to time to remind her to go to sleep and we would quickly leave the room. It took a few days of this and in the last 2 years she falls asleep on her own.

I know it may sound harsh but this can work. You may have a rough week ahead of you but after a week or so you should have a 18 month old sleeping on his own. Wouldn't that be amazing and so much needed for you since you have a little one to still take care of. Bless your heart.

Now I know that you are concerned about your newborn waking up from the 18 mo old crying. I think a couple of nights of dealing with this is much better than spending hour after hour for who knows how many more months trying to get your 18 month to go to sleep. Maybe during this transition you can have the baby in another part of the house or drown out the noise with music or a fan etc.. until he stops crying and starts sleeping on his own. You might be surprised at how quickly this can happen.

There was another mom who had a question similar to yours on the same day of yours titled "How to get a 15 month old to sleep through the night". I highly recommend you read the responses she got. There are some great tips. Here is the link:
http://www.mamasource.com/request/10800414312775024641

I will copy and paste the same message I gave her to you. Here it is below...

"Jenn,
I am so happy to hear that many other mom's have tried the cry it out method and have had success because I too have had success with it and BELIEVE ME a couple of "CRY IT OUT" nights is so worth it in the long run when you have many peaceful nights of "SLEEPING THROUGH THE NIGHT" for years to come.

My daughter has been successfully sleeping through the night for almost 2 years now. It was very hard to hear my daughter cry when we 1st started the bedtime routine. I know that some moms think it is hurtful and damaging to the child and they also would have a hard time hearing their child cry and don't know if they could handle it, but we would go QUICKLY in her room every 5 minutes to remind her to go to sleep in a very NEUTRAL tone of voice WITHOUT picking her up. By doing this we would reassure her that we had not abandoned her and would let her know that we were serious about this. We would eventually start spreading this out to 10 minutes and then 15 minutes etc...

Now I am not saying this was easy to do. My husband was a great support and the book "Sleeping Through The Night" by Jodi A Mindell helped us out a lot. Once it became too hard for me to handle I left the house and had my hubby take over. It seriously only took a few days and I am so glad we stuck it out because the last 2 years of her sleeping through the night have been great for all of us.

I liked what Anissa had to say; "It seems very harsh, and for 3 or 4 days you are going crazy, but after that it is a miracle!!" I also like what Heidi had to say; "crying it out is not the only one, it's the most extreme (and fastest), and he shows a lot of research that shows that it is NOT damaging to the child as many "experts" claim"

We justed started implementing this with our 8 month old son and though he fought it for 1 hr and 45 minutes the 1st time within days he was sleeping on his own and was no longer waking up 5 times a night like he use to. All I can say is that I feel like a better mom now that I have gotten better sleep. This will help everyone in the long run and will help your son for the rest of his life. Many studies have link sleeping disorders in adults to their childhood sleeping habits.

Good luck with everything. J."

M., Although my son is now seven, I remember clearly the nights I took to wean him from being nursed to sleep to teaching him to fall asleep on his own. I completely agree with Julie's response. When my son was 7 mos old I realized I'd better teach him to fall asleep by himself or I would end up spending way too much time working to get him to sleep each night. You have your hands full with a brand new baby. It's definitly time, for your sanity's sake, to teach your 18-mo-old to sleep on his own.

This was my experience: I was still nursing him so as part of our normal routine I nursed him shortly before bedtime but didn't allow him to fall asleep. While he was still awake I tucked him in, kissed him goodnight, turned off the light and closed the door. It took about as long as a very deep breath for the first angry scream. I walked down the hall and rocked myself in my recliner and waited. About every 15 minutes I went back to his room, kissed him and laid him back down without picking him up into my arms. I reasured him that Mommy was still here and left the room. This went on for 2 hrs and a full refrigerator cleaning at 1am! Then he was asleep.

The second night, we went through the same routine, but it only lasted about 1 hr. Within a few nights, he was quietly laying down and going to sleep.

It may take a little longer for your little guy since he's a bit older and more set in his ways. He can only "manipulate" your response to his crying as long as you let him. He will get the idea very soon that Mommy hasn't left, you still love him and it's ok to sleep on his own. I promise, it works. This process will be much harder on you than him (or the baby!) But you can do it and you're nighttime routine will be so much easier.

Good luck and keep us posted!

T.

What you are missing is recognizing the strong will of a toddler to get what he wants and to get it NOW! I understand not leaving him alone in his room feeling neglected, abandoned, and heart broken, but that does not mean you have to be in his bed. He knows what makes you give in (screaming loud enough to wake up baby), and he will do it every time because it made you give in last time. It will get worse before it gets better because you are going to tick him off and he is going to persist as much as he can. Sit in the chair and ignore him!!! Do your normal bed time routine, and then sit in the chair and let him scream it out if he wants. You can temporarily move your baby to the other side of the house while he screams, or set up a loud fan, noise machine, or music to help drown out his screams. Each night, he will get the message that no matter what he does you will not give in and he will protest less and less. With you in the room, he will not feel lonely or scared or anything, just ANGRY that he can’t make you do what he wants. Once you get into a fairly consistent routine of him knowing you are only going to sit in the chair, I’d leave every time he tried screaming at you to get in bed with him. I’d say “I don’t want to be in here while you scream, I’ll come back later and we can try again”. A few minutes late, come back and ask him if he is ready to lie down and be quiet. Then sit in the chair again. I would not recommend trying to sneak farther out of his room too soon because you will make him regress. He’ll feel like he compromised by letting you sit in the chair, and now you are breaking your end of the bargain by trying to sneak out. Give it a month or two so it really becomes a routine and then leave for short amounts of time. Tell him you need to go potty and you’ll be right back. Leave for a minute and come back. Every night, add a minute or so. Always tell him what you need to do (potty, dishes, laundry, wash the counter, etc) and that you will come back and always come back. After a while, he will begin falling asleep while you are gone. A toddler that age can learn very easily what “I’ll be right back” means with practice and honesty.

Good luck! I hope this helps.

Hi M.,
I'm a mom to 4 kids and 2 step kids. Each one of mine was a little different but one thing that worked with my third child was to put some Kenny G on in her room very softly. It is so mellow and soft. My older two had no problems sleeping and my youngest one was a pain LOL. nothing seemed to work for her, I didn't get a good nights sleep until she was nearly 4 years old... I don't have a sure fired answer but maybe some soft music might help. They also have these cool night lights that have many different colors that twirl around on the walls..totally entertaining to small kids to watch, try soft music with the night lights...see if that helps. Good luck :)

Hi, now you may have already tried these things but what I found helped with our 5 yr old when he was younger was the same routine every night and some soothing calming activities right before bed. Try giving him a warm bath everynight (even if your not washing) right before bed. Its calming and relaxing and quality one on one time. Then maybe a small snack and then lay in bed together a read one or two books to him. By this time he should feel one of two things, so relaxed and tired and fall right asleep, or so comforted and connected with mom, that he won't feel the need of her by his side.
One thing that I read once, was to try telling him you need to go do something and you'll be right back. Only be gone for a few min. and then come back to see him. Then go again for 5 min. and then come back and see him. Each time you leave make it a bit longer but always come back when you promise you will. (if he cried during that time just let him, but he will see that you always come back when you say you will) and eventually (is the hope) he will go to sleep. and that seems to be a process not necessarily one night.
anyway, hope that helps, I know how frustrating this can be for a mom!
Good Luck

M.,
I feel your pain! When I moved my older daughter to a toddler bed from her crib when she was 2, bedtime routine suddenly took on a whole new meaning. She would get up many times or just cry. So, I started a new routine of reading her ONE book while we rocked (turned out she missed the rocking bit) and then I would lay down beside her on the bed, say our prayers and sing a song. Usually by this point she would have calmed down enough and would be drifting off. I started out with one song, but then she got wise and I had to add another song and then later another song, but all in all, the prayers and three songs would take about 3 minutes( I eventually faded out the rocking thing). I would then lay there for a couple more minutes. I did this every night until she feel asleep for about a month, and then one night I announced to her that when Mommy was done singing the songs I would have to leave right away because I had to go do something (I think the first few times I told her I had to go potty!). She completely accepted it and would go to sleep on her own. She is now three, almost four. We still sing the three songs and say prayers but then I just give her hugs and kisses and go. Something else that we've added to the routine (because now she's really wise to finding ways to not go to sleep!) is she asks what we're going to do the next day. I tell her one or two things and tell her to think about those things. Or I ask her what she did that was fun that day and tell her to think about that while she relaxes. Usually she's out within 10 minutes, but I'm not in there to help her!
Good luck!
M.

This is such a tough thing, putting kids to bed. It's so hard to figure out what works for your own sometimes. I always tried to keep the same night time routine. So they know what to expect. Whether it be a bath, a book a small cuddle and then to bed. Or ice cream then bed. It's going to take atleast 3-4 nights, which I know totally stinks, for him to get the hang of "mom's leaving and not coming back". Try finding a favorite something, no matter what it is, a big giant airplane or a cuddly teddy and tell him he can only have it if he goes nite nite like a big boy. He's still young though and he will eventually out grow it. I know in the moment it doesn't seem like it. Best wishes to you and happy sleeping,
W.