Should It Really Take This Long?

If she falling asleep in the car, she is not getting enough sleep and is not ready to get rid of her nap. My thought is that you are waiting too long to put her down or she is so tired that she can't fall asleep on her own. My son will get more and more hyper the more sleep deprived he is until it is impossible for him to wind down. I would dump the crib, put her in a toddler bed, strip her room of toys, give her some books and tell her that this is quiet time. I say quiet time because some kids object to the word nap. Tell her she can look at her books, talk to herself, whatever, as long as she is quiet. If she falls asleep, great. If not, then at least she had some downtime. If she cries, oh well. don't get her until the time you set is up.

Well, first.... sorry you're having a rough patch. Sleeping stuff is hard!

here is my $0.02.

By 2 1/2 my daughter had completely given up all her naps. none. At all. She did have "quiet time" which meant she had to be in her room with absolutely NO NOISE for 30 minutes, or on her mat (at school) while the other kids napped.

I see a couple breakdowns in your post.......

#1
"If she doesn't fall asleep, I tranfer her to thecrib with a book/or toy and tell her that it's quiet time and mommy will come check on her. She will then scream for 15 minutes and I go back in and rock her to sleep."

Your teeny tiny terrorist has found your weak spot and is holding you hostage. it's beautifully crafted subrofuge actually..... from HER SIDE!!!!1 But when you're the mom being held hostage? Then it's maddening!!!!!!!!

#2
"Hubby on the other hand, says that I "need to be patient" and that he allows her to squirm and lets her sleep on him for 25 minutes".

At 2 years old, you and hubby can't have different rules. That just fuels the fire of your teeny tiny terrorist. The two of you have to lockstep and do the high kick. The same routine. every time. from each of you. without fail.

IF ONE OF YOU PAYS A RANSOM FOR A HOSTAGE THE TERRORIST WINS. You're back at square one. You've failed and have to start negotiations all over again..... only this time you have to go PAST the point where you gave in before and then steele yourself for irrational terrorist behavior because you have now confused her.

For an adult..... it takes 21 days of completely consistent 100% unwavering behavior to build a habit. For a kid.... sometimes more. So........ you have to BREAK her habit. That will take 21 days if, and only if, you can be 100% consistent and on the same page. THEN you start the new behavior - that's another 21 days. Sometimes there is some overlap, and you can break a habit and build a habit at the same time....depending on how much of a pushover you have been. The more you guys have given in..... the more it will take to teach her you won't give in any more.

So - the FIRST thing I would suggest is that you and hubs chat it out. Decide what you are going to do. Decide what is most important. To a TONS of parents.... harmony and easy is the most important. So, you lay down with her. For other parents, they sleep train and they are able to be consistent....regardless of her screaming.

Here is what I can tell you with 100% certainty........ THIS issue is going to set the stage for how you all parent. Potty Training. Homework. Chores. Practicing her piano or clarinet. Dating. Drinking. Friends.

Get this right..... prove to her that mom and dad are on the same page and are consistent. That you are not emotional. That she can't wear you down. That she can't win by making it so difficult for you that you give in....... Do this and you pave the way for the rest to be easy. Well, easier anyway.

it's not easy. At all. I'm only 1/2 joking when I refer to toddlers as teeny tiny terrrorists. Mostly they have the ability to make you feel like your brain is hiroshima and the atomic bomb just exploded in your head.

So, stay calm. Don't panic. figure out your game plan. Set it in motion. DON'T GIVE IN.

I wish you luck.

Stop walking back in.

I hope this is taken as some tough love - since you mentioned your previous questions, I checked. You walk back into the room when she cries every time.

You've only taught her to cry for 15 minutes and then mommy will be there. She will be fine, but you have got to let HER learn how to go to sleep, otherwise you'll be asking the same question for the next year or so.

I understand the fear you have of letting her cry/whine. I've been there. You can try a slower method - go to 20 min. then 25. then 30....

But you cannot "teach" her how to fall asleep. She needs to learn that on her own.

Or try another method - there's co-sleeping, there's rocking (my SIL does that for every nap and every bedtime), there's i don't know what else.

But letting her cry 15 and then rocking her isn't a method to anything other than her crying and you rocking - every day.

Try googling "sleep training". There's great websites out there that will walk you through just about any way that works.

Good luck. :)

No, children this age still need a nap. They do need a grown up in the family to continue the process of getting her to lay down and at least rest. She is too young physically. As you said, if she doesn't nap she will fall asleep on her own later in the day.

What are the consequences of that? Does she still go to bed on time a couple of hours later? Is she harder to get back on track with the regular bedtime routine in the evening?

If she is still going to bed on time and that part of the day is still working then you can plan on that for a little while....until she decides she is not going to go to bed and starts this same routine again. She will wear you down again and start keeping herself awake longer and longer.

I think kids need to lay down for a nap, and maybe not fall asleep but do have a good rest time, until they are 4. They will often fall asleep on their own anyway if the lights are out and the room is darkened. They get the physical ques it is time to sleep and they have an easier time doing it.

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Just my opinion, she is old enough to be out of a baby and a toddler bed and into a regular bed so if she is appearing to not rest well she is probably not liking the baby bed mattress anymore. They are not made for children her age. They are for much younger kids. They are not built to hold kids her size so the springs and stuff inside is not as comfortable as it used to be to her.

Our grand kids were in toddler beds while they were toddlers, ages 12 months up to 24 months. Once they got to about 15 months they were napping on the toddler beds. They were in them full time by 18 months. I worked child care and the babies were on cots by 11 months so that when they transitioned into the toddler room at 12 months they were used to sleeping on the cots and the transition went better. This is typically the same time I started switching the kids at home too. If they start younger they never get the idea that being on a toddler bed is play time. It is bed, you go get in bed and go to sleep.

She sounds like she is outgrowing naps. You can't change that and it's not about anything you or your husband are doing wrong. Give up the fight and regroup with a new routine for quiet time.

I know that is not what you want to hear. No parent wants that! But many kids give up naps between two and three. My daughter for that whole year really only napped in the car.

It also sounds like your routine is very long. I would do one sippy while she's being read to (just one short book) and then into the crib or just onto the floor and it's quiet time. We instituted quiet time at two. It is beneficial because it teaches kids to amuse themselves alone for a while -- critical skill! You will need to have a whole new routine and patience, though, because she will want to find you, to wander out of her room, etc. Be prepared for that so you do not get angry with her. Just keep quietly taking her back to her room and make sure she has a soft CD playing and plenty of books and safe toys around. Use a timer to signal to her the end of quiet time, if you need to (but not if you already use one for time outs -- that will confuse her and she will think of quiet time as discipline which it never should be!).

You can't make another human being sleep when you want, alas.

"I say I am more than patient and that anything past 30 minutes is superpatient."

I'm in your corner on this one. Two is not an infant. Daddy is going to have to figure out on his own that the whole "sleeping on him for 25 minutes" thing isn't so awesome. He'll eventually get to that point...

In the meantime, here's what I would do--If you feel she really still needs the naps:

Some warm milk in the sippy cup. Two or three short stories, and have the last one be the same one each day. This is a cue for her that naptime is coming. Snuggle up while you sing her two or three songs (same songs each time, again, routine) and then put her in the crib and go while she's awake.

Reassure her that 'it's time to sleep and I'll come check on you in a while'. and leave. If she plays, fine. If she cries, I'd check in after three or four minutes. Remember that she's used to getting picked up and rocked to sleep and she's going to have to learn to sleep on her own.

And you can do this. I have done it. At her age, your daughter does understand object permanence, she doesn't believe you are going to disappear forever if you don't come right away, so her frustration isn't coming from fear, but more from needing to learn a new skill (or just not being tired?). She may also be screaming because she's tired *and doesn't know how to get herself to sleep*.

At this point, you have two other options besides picking her up. One is to stand next to her crib and rub her back until she tires out on her own. Some kids actually fall asleep better once the distraction of the parent has gone, so the other is to go in, reassure her again that "It's time for sleep. Lie down." and leave again for 4-6 minutes or so. Then repeat, repeat, repeat.

If you choose to go this route, you might consider doing the naptime routine for two weeks yourself before letting your husband resume the task. I say this because you'll want her to get established with this new skill. Be aware, too, that if you both aren't on the same page, the days after Daddy puts her down for naps will be harder because you are introducing the newer expectation again.

I'd also say that you can try a later naptime if it works. Or go with no nap and an earlier bedtime. However, I'd keep offering quiet time in the crib. If she doesn't sleep, this is the perfect age to introduce a 20 minute 'Quiet Play' time. If she seems resistant to sleeping, relabeling it by this name will make it more inviting, and it will help you when she's out of the crib, outgrown her naps and YOU need her to take a quiet playtime each day.

Good luck!

I think it's perfectly fine to have a wind-down time before naps that includes a sippy and cuddle. I think you're just spending too much time trying to wind her down when she's not ready to wind down. She'll be more tired if you let her play the 45 minutes and wind-down for 15. It's become a routine for her to cry until you come back and rock her to sleep. She's used to it. If you're interested in teaching her to fall asleep on her own, I recommend reading "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child." Otherwise, put a clock in her room and shorten the wind-down time a little bit every day or every few days. Time flies when you're cuddling, but if you have a clock in there you can set a time to leave and do just that. :)

I didn't read your posts, but I will say that there is nothing wrong with requiring her to have quiet time in her room. Even some kindergartners have to lay down for quiet time, if they are full day programs.

I would institute that. Don't put her in the crib - lay a blanket on the floor just in case she wants to lay down. Do this so she will get used to quiet time.

Good luck,
Dawn

No it shouldn't take an hour for you to get to "nap time".
Be careful, because she's training you both!

My rule of thumb was that when it was THAT much of a hassle to get a nap--not worth it. Earlier bedtime. OR institute "quiet time" and let her lay down & watch a 30 minute movie or listen to a story on a CD. She might fall asleep.

Hi E.S.,

I think naps at the age of two are still good for them. Having said that, I had one that had outgrown naptime a little early (not 2), and I know the fact is that, with the exception of medicating them which is both illegal and abusive, you just can't *make* a child sleep.

You can do some things that will encourage sleeping. Have you ever noticed that in most childcare situations children go outside for playtime then come in for lunch and a nap? That's because they let them run around, wear themselves out, then fill up their little tummies and they crash at naptime. It's just setting the scene for an easy sleep.

I have never had a naptime routine like I've had a bedtime routine. I did rock my children, then I transitioned to them laying on a palet at one end of the sofa while I sat at the other end, then transitioned from there to me laying them down and walking away. There was no story, then songs, then drink and so forth. That drags it out interminably. I just said, "After you eat your lunch it's time to rest." Then we rested.

You can adjust bedtime or wake up time.

If it's not big deal to you and you don't mind letting her stay awake and it makes life easier for you and for her, then do that. But, I agree with the other posters, you do need to have a little conference with your husband so you can agree on how you do the basic things and your rules as well as consequences. If ever a child gets the notion that he/she can divide and conquer than woe unto the parents she practices on. Woe.

Sounds like it to me. (outgrowing the naps). Both of mine were ready to give up naps between ages 2 and 3. Sooner for my daughter than my son, but only because we only gave up "formal" naps. We were often running about doing errands in the early afternoon when our daughter was 2-3 yrs. Not so much when our son was that age (I was preggo with our daughter and sick, and so stayed home a lot! lol).

I found that letting our daughter get 20 minutes in her car seat for a catnap during errand running time, was usually enough to get through the rest of the day. If she dozed off before we got home, I would sometimes leave her in her car seat in the garage (with the door to the car and house open) if it wasn't too hot, and let her finish as much as she would get. Rarely did she stay asleep more than about 5 more minutes after we got home. Often, by the time I unloaded the groceries she had awakened.

She never stayed asleep if I tried to remove her from her seat upon arrival at home. :/

Do you have errands you need to run in the car in the mid-afternoon? Picking up another child from somewhere maybe? I'd let her catnap then... and see what happens.

I never let my kids sleep on me, nor did I rock them to sleep. At nap time, I just changed their diapers and plopped 'em in. If they slept, great. If not - no biggie.
At bed time, we did bath, stories, bed. No rocking, no sitting, no singing, no nothing. I'm mean, I guess.
My kids never had sleep issues.
They came home from the hospital and went right into their own cribs in their own rooms. I'm a stickler for bed times and routine. I did not go back in and rock, or pick up, or talk, or sing, or whatever. If they cried longer than five minutes, I'd go in and make sure they were safe. I did not pick up. I did not talk. I would pat them on the back and that was it.
All this said -- she's out growing her nap. Consider yourself lucky to have had this long with the naps. My youngest out grew hers at 8 mos.
YMMV
LBC

I think she's done or almost done with the naps. When you get to the point where they're doing more fighting than napping, it's pretty counter productive & no one's getting a rest. Been there, done that, and I wish I wouldn't have tried to fight about it so much.

If quiet time does not work for my DD for 30 minutes, or so, then I move on. She could be outgrowing the daily nap.