Seeking Sleep Training Support

Personally, I would just go ahead and take the pacifier away if you do not want to keep going back in. If she is used to falling asleep with the pacifier, it will be hard for her to get herself back to sleep without it. It will be awhile longer before she can get it back into her mouth. If she can retrieve it, put a whole bunch of them in. Good luck!

Wow, I agree, two that close in age is a toughie. Personally I think I would choose to swaddle, or whatever helped to soothe her back to sleep when she wakes up in the middle of the night. I think 3 mos is when a routine should start, but it is still pretty young to expect them to get the hang of it right away. I think I read somewhere that the crying it out doesn't work til around 4mos in age b/c they just don't have the mentality for it. She is getting enough to eat? I know my 2nd had a hard time staying asleep b/c I was lacking a big milk supply. As soon as I started supplementing, she slept like a dream. Also, I do believe I am with you on the routine, and trying to make it start now, but as hard as it is, I think you're going to have to go with the flow for a few mos, and just do what it takes to soothe her into sleep. I will be cheering for you. My 2nd is now 8 mos, but the first 3 or 4 were pretty rough. It will get A LOT easier in a month or two. Hang in there.

I would reconsider denying her the pacifier she needs support also and that is what the pacifier is . other than that you are right to be sleep training and is not to early! let her have her comfort though

In the same way that each child is different in their daytime habits, each child is different in their nighttime sleep habits.
I have a daughter the same age as yours, and she takes a pacifier(my first daughter would not). We often roll up a cloth diaper/burp cloth, and put it near her to hold in the pacifier. She loves to sleep on her side (and will roll to her side if I don't place her there to begin with), so this has worked pretty well.
My first daughter was a horrendous sleeper. She did not sleep through the night until she was 1 1/2 (and nursed that long too), and until about six months ago (she's three), she needed to be rocked or patted to sleep. She's just a high energy kid who has a really rough time winding down. She was the same way as a baby.
Part of being a parent is sacrificing wants/needs/desires for the sake of your children. While I do not believe that children should get all that they want right away, the same can not be said for babies. She's crying because she needs you. Sleep training her this young is not only cruel, but it's teaching her that you do not care enough to tend to her needs. If she stops crying, it's not because she's calmed down, it's because she's resolved herself to the fact that you will not respond to her needs.
She's too young to be ignored like this!
If you're dead set on sleep training I would:
a) Wait until she's a bit older. Being a parent takes sacrifice!
b) Read the "No-Cry Sleep Solution". I really enjoyed the authors perspective, and it helped us a lot when we were ready to sleep train our older daughter.
You might just have a poor sleeper on your hands. Our three year old daughter is STILL more difficult to get to sleep (and still struggles to sleep through the night), when our 11 week old gets to sleep by herself quite fine.
Please don't sacrifice the needs of your daughter (security, comfort and YOU) for the sake of you needing time to yourself. that's what happens when you choose to have babies so closely in age...or children at all!

You sound really frustrated. I'm sorry it's so tough! :( High-needs babies are tough on a mama, and having another little one only complicates it.

In general, I'd say that what you're doing now isn't working, and you should look into other options. It sounds like there's more going on here, and I do not think that "sleep training" is going to be the solution. I agree with another poster who suggests there may be a physical issue, such as reflux, that is interrupting her sleep. While there are some medications available for reflux, the very best solution I've found (with three babies with reflux!) is chiropractic care. If you live in the Houston area, I can recommend some excellent chiropractors who are certified with children. If not, you should check http://www.icpa4kids.com/ to find one in your area. It has made a WORLD of difference, and very quickly, for my babies and those of friends.

I also recommend the book, "The No-Cry Sleep Solution," which can help you assess your needs, her needs, and your goals, as well as offering concrete advice and solutions to try. There is no one-size-fits-all solution, so having a host of ideas in this book is very helpful.

Do you ever "wear" your baby? Many high-needs babies find great comfort in being worn, and babywearing also leaves your hands free to tend to your toddler. Again, if you're in the Houston area I can connect you with great resources. Otherwise, check out http://www.thebabywearer.com/ for excellent information.

You may also want to reconsider swaddling with her. She's so very young still, that it may help. You say she sleeps only 30m at a time now, but slept 45m in the swaddling blanket. That sounds better, to me! :)

Another option that often helps high-needs babies to bring her into your room, and even your bed, to sleep. It's far less disturbing to anyone who does need to wake up to tend to a baby to have them nearby. As well, when nursing at night, it's much more peaceful to simply be able to nurse in bed and fall asleep again with the baby. Some safe sleeping tips: http://askdrsears.com/html/7/T070600.asp

Truly, a baby at this stage is learning to trust, and refusing to tend to her or give her a pacifier that she's fallen asleep with is not teaching her trust. She is NOT old enough to learn "consequences." I hope some of these other tools will help you deal with this frustrating situation, so that you can ALL get some more sleep!

Some more advice on sleep from Dr. Sears: http://askdrsears.com/html/7/T070100.asp

I work with neonates and infants in a hospital (and have my own little one) and can only advise you to take it easy and give the baby a little more time. After working with so many babies, it's crystal clear that the most relaxed and secure ones are those who receive a response to their little wails. After all, yours is not even 12 weeks and your expecting her to figure out not to cry when her paci falls out? Were you this impatient with your first? I know it's exhausting,but please remember you're talking about a tiny helpless baby that is depending on you - her mum - to meet her needs and make her feel secure. I'd give it a few more months yet. Besides, this is your opportunity to teach your tot that babies need lots of gentle care and attention and also the good opportunity to demonstrate and nurture patience in your children. Please reconsider leaving the little one to hash it out on her own.

I am sure that you are feeling incredibly overwhelmed right now. As most moms on here, I too have two kids. It is very hard to try to split up your time to make sure you're spending an equal amount of time with both of them. Truth of the matter is that your second, third, etc will always be a little different than your first. Don't get me wrong...you will still love all of your kids the same and just as much as the other. Your first born only had to share you with her daddy. Now you're a mom of TWO, homemaker, and a wife...the list goes on and on. I think you are being a little too hard on yourself. Take it one day at a time. Don't make your babies grow up too fast. With my first I wanted him to eat solids, crawl, talk and walk just as fast as all the other babies if not faster. Now with my second, I'm saying slow down baby! You're growing too fast!!! Cherish these moments...in 5 years, you'll do anything to have her LET you hold her to put her to sleep. Good luck, mama! Hang in there!

I am about to have my second. I am not looking forward to these nights of no sleeping again. Our son did not really ever use the paci perhaps the first month or so. This is what we did. Give him a bottle and then put him in a rocking chair to rock him to sleep. Most times we did not move him from the chair just let him sleep there. Once we did start putting him in his own crib to sleep we made his room sleep aperoperiate. only enough light to be able to walk around in there with, black out shades, noise machiene, cool temp. this seemed to help out A LOT. Our pedi said to wake our sleeping child if he sleept more than six hours in a row to feed him. There blood sugar needs it. Hang in there momma you will get to sleep again. Babies seem to completly drain you of all sleep and then give you a few nights of actuall rest then start all over with the depravation. I hope those tips help out.

Hi N.,
I did the 'cry-it-out' method with my middle daughter when she was almost 6 months and vowed it wouldn't happen again (even though at that point I didn't expect to have any more children). With my third little 'surprise gift', I was going crazy from lack of sleep--I had two older children and I was older myself! I read The No Cry Sleep Solution (great book) when she was 3 months old and realized I needed to wait another couple of months to start any sort of 'training,' so I stuck with swaddling and the paci, in addition to using whatever would work with her--the bouncy chair on 'vibrate,' the swing set on low, whatever helped her sleep for longer periods. Then at 5 months I started the recommended steps in The No Cry Sleep Solution, and by 6 months my daughter was sleeping through the night and having 2 hour naps. She is still an excellent sleeper at almost 5. I really recommend that you read that book--it will give you a sense of purpose and a 'plan,' and that is half the battle. Good luck!

Babies cry for a reason - it may not even be the pacifier falling out! She may need arms holding and rocking her - she needs to feel secure before she can trust - she may not be at that point yet. Have you tried having her sleep in a swing or vibrating chair? Hang in there and remember your older child is getting to the age of memory development, but your younger child is quite far from doing that yet, so yes, the older one needs to be a priority, but not at the risk of the baby. Blessings!

The thing about sleep training is to be cosistent. I would suggest that, if you aren't going to give the pacifier back, then don't give it to her to start. Still lots of crying, but it should just be st the beginning of the night, instead of all night. To help with the crying, the conditions when she wakes need to be the same as they are when she sleeps (imagine if you woke in the middle of the night to find your blanket or pillow gone). That makes it good for falling asleep on her own: if you were holding her when she fell asleep, she would expect to continue being held when she awoke. Extend that to the pacifier. If she has it in her mouth when she falls asleep, she will expect it to be there when she wakes up.

Hi N.,
What a challenge. I would try to keep her up more during the day if possible. And, have you considered that she could be a little hungry? I would feed her at nitetime with her last bottle of the nite.
also, if you don;t think she needs the swaddle, I would find another object she can attach to- like a little stuffed animal or a receiving blanket she can just hold onto. My children had a receiving blanket they keep close to their face at nitetime- this seemed to be the comfort they needed. Don;t really know what to say about the paci issue- but I think if you feed her just before you put her to bed at nite that might help- you might also try keeping her up a little later at nite-say an extra 30 minutes to be sure she is really sleepy.
Babies will usually "sleep train" themselves .....and I have had some nite owls as well.....
good luck and blessings

I read some of the posts and your response. I wouldn't give up yet. I have two children, ages 2 and 4 years. They have both been great night sleepers since they were about 8 or 9 weeks old. I did swaddle them as long as possible. They hated getting into the blanket, but once tucked in, they would sleep really well. I nursed my first one and she still began sleep through the night on her own at around 9 weeks. At 5 weeks she slept for about 6 hours straight for the first time. It sort of took us by surprise. I was not too hard core. Though, I never rocked either of my kids to sleep or let them fall asleep while feeding. I always made sure they were drowsy, but awake, when I lay them down. Our routine started at about 5 weeks with both. I would get them ready for bed, feed them, then rock them a little while singing. They both used a paci and it was frustrating sometimes when they would lose it. However, they usually slept on without it. They just needed it to go to sleep. I don't think it's too much to expect her to sleep through the night. I would start extending your time between the crying. Go in at 10 minutes, then extend it by a minute or two. Eventually, she will probably stop because you stopped reinforcing the crying every 10 minutes. I know this can seem cruel to some. However, I was a much better Mom when I was able to get some consistent sleep myself. And realistically the crying didn't last beyond a week. I don't even think it took 5 days. It does seem like forever, when you are hearing them cry, but in the grand scheme it is not.

Our evenings ended with the last nursing session/bottle at around 10 PM, right before I went to bed. When they were around 11 or 12 weeks, they would sleep through until close to 7 AM. Naps were not great for either of them until about 4 months. I did so much reading about naps in the early months. It was extremely exhausting dealing with their short little naps (30 to 45 min) throughout the day. Everything I read said that their nighttime sleep would get organized and extended before the naps would. That was certainly true for my kids. Most of the books/articles said that until about 4 months the babies brains are not able to organize their sleep for naps. However, they can sleep through the night.

My doctor was quite helpful and I took her advice seriously. She had pre-schooler, a toddler and a newborn herself when I had my first. So, I figured since she was going through the same things...she knew what she was talking about. Her advice was to move the baby to her own crib in her own room, she had been in the pack-n-play in our room; and suggested we turn the monitor down to the point where we couldn't hear every little gurgle or whine, but could hear her when she was crying hard. That way she didn't wake us up if she fussed while trying to get back to sleep. Even though I nursed the doctor told me that after the first month if the baby slept through the night feeding it was okay. As long as she was eating well in the AM and throughout the day, she would be fine.

Overall, just do what you feel you can deal with. Your baby will probably settle into good naps within the month. Just when I thought I couldn't take it anymore mine would finally nap. I don't think I just got lucky with my kids sleeping well early. I read as much as I could, did what I felt comfortable with and paid attention to all the advice I got. It was really hard to be consistent and not cave in, but it was soooo worth it.

I don't agree with sleep training such a young infant, but if you are set on doing so, I would suggest the book The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley. It does take work, but many people swear by it. It helps you to really analyze what's going on and what you can do about it.

I don't understand what's so wrong with swaddling? It's so comforting for them. Babies of this age need to suck. Is she hungry? I don't know about formula fed babies, but breastfed babies usually still need to eat at night (until they're 6 months and beyound usually). Babies go through a growth spurt at this age and she may be telling you that she's hungry with the additional night waking she's doing right now.

I don't know what else to say, but good luck in what you choose to do. I would love to suggest you read Happiest Baby on the Block by Dr. Harvey Karp, but though I think it would help you, it's VERY different than sleep training.

**ETA I didn't want to say too much because you seem very set on sleep training, but after reading the other responses (I always respond first, then read), I have to agree with Christa and H. B. They said what I wanted to say, but didn't know if you wanted to hear.

The first thing that came to mind was adding rice cereal to her bottle - we had to start that with one of my boys at 2 1/2 months because he needed more substance. You might also try a different type of formula (we tried similac advanced blue) and it worked great - we saw a difference in the boys. Your pediatrician should have samples if you ask. This is gonna sound sort of corny, but we also got this musical seahorse (kinda like a glowbug) from Walmart and play it each time we put the boys down from about 3 months, they are now 23 months and when they wake up at night they push it or roll against it and go right back to sleep. Hope something may help you out :)

N.,
I understand your situation. I have two boys ages 3 and 5 (19 months apart in age). I used a book called "Baby Wise" that I found very helpful in setting a schedule for both of my boys. I think the only thing that might be a problem is the paci. If she has it to start with it may be confusing when she can not get it again. Is it possible to take that away now since she is not sleeping well? Also I think it just takes time and lots of stress for us moms. I guess just be patient and consistent. Try getting that book used (I found it was only a couple of dollars used online) and let that help guide you and reassure you that your doing it right). Good luck!

Well you are already of ahead of me in the game, I only have one and one on the way:) The only thing I could think of was a possibility of reflux. Is she spitting up a lot? I had to put my boy on an angle to get him to sleep for the first few months and I took him in and had him tested and he had reflux and was on liquid prevacid until about 5 or 6 months. So if that sounds like it might apply, you might want to get her checked. A good friend of mine had to have her daughter sleep in a bouncy seat the whole first year because she just couldn't sleep well on her back due to some breathing issues. She was a healthly little girl, just got all stuffy on her back. So it may be something physical causing her to wake up and not get back to sleep. Those were the only two things I could think of, I think sleep training at her age is OK but if it isn't working, then you may have to try and figure what is waking her. Best wishes and I so hope you get some unbroken sleep soon!

I can't stand to hear my baby cry, either. We also started sleep training at 3 or 4 months and I started with night time. She used the pacifier to help her go to sleep and we encouraged her to find her thumb (we'd bring her thumb to her mouth) and sometimes she would let us and sometimes she wouldn't.
That saved us from having to go in at 2am and 4 or whenever she would stir awake.
She didn't take longer than 30 minute naps until she was 7 1/2 months old. I ended up waking her up earlier in the day (ugh) or if you put her to bed a little later, she'll wake up earlier in the day for you!
It's like nails on a chalkboard to hear her cry but if you aren't consistent, it's just mean to her to prolong the training-that's what I would tell myself anyway.
What a gift, though-to be able to put herself to sleep. So many people have sleep issues...
Good luck! Big hugs and wishes for fast training.

Sleep issues can be so difficult and frustrating.

If your daughter has such a hard time sleeping, have you ruled out medical issues like reflux which might be causing her pain?

Also, some babies really sleep best close to their mothers. Have you tried wearing her in a sling during the day so that she can sleep near you and you can still play with your older daughter.

For babies that wake a lot at night, sometimes co-sleeping works best to help everyone get rested.

I went thru this same thing... my daughter is now 3... she just would not sleep in her bassonett or her crib for more than 20 mins at a time... and the time in between was so long... but i noticed that when she was propped somewhat in her bouncy... she slept for hours... i had asked her doc if this was ok and she said that it was... that she preferred the carseat... but that she was still so little that the bouncy was fine... the doc said that her sleep was most likely disturbed due to acid reflux... yes... lol... i made a face... but babies get it too... so i placed her bouncy next to the side of my bed on the floor and there she slept... soundly... on the occaision she woke up for her binky... id roll over and hand it to her... i figured she had gone thru enough just tryin to sleep and never could... it wasnt her fault... i just wasnt aware... i thought she was bein difficult... i know better now... =)

Hi! I'm a first time mom to a six month old. I think every baby is different. The first 3 months were difficult. At three months we moved him from the bassinet to his crib. He was sleeping on this wedge thing (in the baby aisle) with adjustable sides. I think it helped him feel more secure. He was using that until he outgrew it. He drinks formula so we started slowly putting more ounces in his bottle. He went from drinking 4 ounce bottles one week to 5 ounce the next and now 6 ounces or more depending on his appetite. He napped during the day but I slowly cut them shorter and shorter and tried to play more with him. We would play then he would have a bath and a small bottle before bed (2 ounces or so). It seemed like the extra ounces during the day and the "snack" kept him statisfied longer and he slept for a longer period of time. We did not put cereal in his bottle even though everyone suggested it. We just gave him more ounces and he was satisfied with that. Before I went to bed I would check his diaper and change it. Usually I got up at least once to go to restroom and would check him again or change if needed. The pacifier would soothe him but I tried other soothing methods like the small bottle before bed and that helped. Our doctor said as long as he's getting enough ounces during the day he doesn't need a bottle at night similar to how we are when we sleep. He also said when we first had him to start a bedtime rountine because they realize that's when bedtime is. Since 4 months he has been sleeping through the night and now knows when his bedtime is and will get cranky if we keep him up past it. I don't know if you like alternative music but they make these rockabye lullaby cds and they even put me to sleep. He listens to one every night. www.whattoexpect.com has some great tips for bedtime. Hang in there!! I think of what my friend would tell me when I would get frustrated. She said, "It's only temporary, this will pass". She was right. Now he's teething and that keeps popping into my head whenever he's feeling bad. So good luck!

My kids all hated pacifiers and I was happy when they found their thumbs! They could comfort themselves & get back to sleep, and unlike pacifiers, an active baby can't play if he/she has a thumb in the mouth. A thumb in the mouth was also a useful "I'm sleepy" sign for mom or dad, too. Unless you're unalterably opposed, you might try to help her find her thumb & learn this little self-comforting technique. If she's waking up a lot at night, could she be hungry? It seems like mine had bottles at around 10pm, then maybe 2 am & 6 am until around 4 months or so. I don't think mine ever slept more than 2 or 2 1/2 hours at a time that young...but the baby's almost 21 now. Looking in the rearview mirror, I wish I'd cuddled them all more when they were tiny and cute and thought I was everything good. Good luck - I hope this helps!

I understand how very frustrating that can be. I read the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Dr. Weissbluth. It saved my life, and my kids. It didn't take long to read b/c it goes in stages by ages. He does recommend not to begin until 4-5 months of age as their system is not mature enough. Hmmm, I wonder if he had children so close in age and didn't get a moment of peace, LOL!! With my oldest (now 6) we could not go in at intervals because it only made him scream louder!! I will say it takes only 3 days of being consistent to develop the pattern. I started with bedtime, and let him cry. After a day or so we worked on naps. With my youngest (now 3) their was no need to cry it out as I was aware of the sleep signals and patterns. I was able to put him down peacefully and he would drift right off to sleep. Does she sleep if you are holding her? I was just wondering if wearing her in a carrier would help - at least for another month or so. Good luck and don't get stressed. It will all work out :)

I couldn't let my son cry it out. My son also only slept for 30 minutes at a time until very very recently. Something that helped significantly was letting him nap in the swing. I gently rock it as he's falling asleep and can pop in there and give it a push if he starts to wake. He usually goes right back to sleep. In the past week, he's been taking hour and a half long naps without the extra pushes. Yay! He never ever took a paci and hated the swaddle, so we just had to adapt. Does your little one like to be rocked? You could try the same thing but holding her and rocking at night. Is she in her own room or with you all in yours? If alone, maybe a soothing noise might help. It's so hard to know what each little one needs. I say trust your instincts. You are the expert on your baby and you should trust your instincts... I really liked Pantley's book on the no cry sleep solutions. Lots of different ideas to use and none of them include crying it out. I got the swing idea from the book and it works for us. once he started getting more rest during the day, he started sleeping much much better at night. Blessings to all of you.

I did the sleep training with my first daughter, 3years old in September. Now I have a 7 week old daughter and i completely forgot how to do it. She is younger than your daughter but I want to make sure she knows that she cant fall asleep in our arms all the time. So when i am holding her and she's getting sleepy, I lay her down ( with a paci). She does wake up and I rock her til her eyes are closed and put her down again. We do this at least 5 times. Yes, very annoying but it is for the better. At night though it does get harder and sometimes I just let her fall asleep next to me. Not good, I know but I'm just so tired sometimes. Anyway hope this helps.