Seeking Advice for Handling an Independent & Controlling Screaming Fits 3.75 YO

It's unfortunate you are having trouble, but bottom line is, she is doing what she is allowed to do. It's that simple.
You are the parent, she is the child, I know you know this but, you are allowing her to be in control. She is having tantrums because it gives her attention. Let her have the tantrum with no response or action from you and it will soon cease. Good luck.

I was given this "advice" from a friend with 3 kids of his own.

"No 3yr old can do anything you don't LET them do".

I was told that when I was complaining about similar stuff with my 3.5 yr old son. My friend was right.
I'm dealing with it, too. But I've taken a much more "hard a**" approch with my DS in recent weeks, and I've noticed some good progress.

Take that for what it's worth.

You already know the answer - you put it very well in your question:

"She does very well with OTHER authority figures." paraphrased from 1st paragraph

Doesn't seem like you are much of an authority figure if she can boss you around.

Update - looking thru some of your old questions, seems like this isn't a new thing, btw.

First off, I must say that based solely on your limited post your daughter DOES NOT sound as if she has Autism as someone suggested. She does sound as if she has control of your house and is looking for boundaries. Your job is not to keep her happy and keep her from ever crying or having a tantrum. Your job is to provide boundaries and safety nets for her.

This isn't a "strong personality" issue, it's typical toddler/preschooler behavior. She's not extreme. She's lacking discipline.

She's still a very, very small child but she clearly knows that some behaviors are inappropriate. How do I know that? Because she doesn't behave inappropriately like a little beast outside of your home. She behaves well at school where there's structure and teachers are willing and able to enforce rules.

You're also forgetting that at this age, she's entered the stage of "monsters in the dark." Get her a night light and adjust the bed time routine. Reassure her and do what it takes to get her to stay in bed and be firm. It takes as long as it takes.

21 days to make a habit, 21 days to break a habit. Whatever bad habits you need to break need to be replaced with good habits, and it's going to take three full weeks of using the same method. You can't just try something for two or three nights and then give up. You have to stay at it, over and over, until you've established with her that you're serious and also that you're reassuring her that the routine and rules won't be changing. Just like at school.

Think about that. At school, there's consistency. At home there's not. As for how to carry that out, you've gotten a lot of great advice that I usually offer (charts, discipline, etc). Good luck. The only thing I would add is to take a parenting class.

I have a very strong willed child and I find that a couple well placed swats on the behind are highly effective. It has shock value and there is no room for tantruming or weaseling out of it. There is no way to pretend they are not upset by it.
Please, don't be afraid of your child. Children need boundaries to feel secure. Even though she seems to want "her way or the highway" what she really wants and needs is for you to take charge and be the boss of her.

You can't reason with her. You'll lose every time, as my husband and I came to say "no negotiation with terrorists." Accept that, and start thinking of new tactics, take back the control from her. You've given her an awful lot of power, it's time to assert yourselves more. it doesn't have to be punitive or harsh, it can be as simple as finding ways to hold your line. And it'a always a good idea to pepper a preschooler with choices so that they feel like they have control, while things happen in ways that are acceptable to you. Not about bedtime or where she sleeps, mind you, but about which socks to wear and which snack to pack and which order of books to read. Beyond that: pick places you can accommodate her and do it, but have consequences for bad behavior. They should be natural consequences (If you yell at me, I will walk away, I will come back when you have a nice tone of voice) and stick to them!

Also, underneath, remember that she is a little girl with very big feelings and she doesn't know how to manage them yet. She could use more guidance dealing with her emotions -- reflect back to her how it seems to be feeling (you are very scared, you are nervous to be alone in the dark) so she knows that you understand how she feels. Then in calm mornings, discuss all the different ways you could approach her fear to feel better -- ask her: what if you got a different nightlight? Soothing music? You can't sleep with us every night because there is no room, so what MIGHT make you feel better? Get her involved in solving the problem, so she doesn't feel so much like it's her FEELINGS that are the problem.

I hope that makes sense. Good luck, stay calm!

I have a few thoughts - take it for what it's worth...

Note: I was a nanny in college to two older, full time working parents, and have three kids of my own now.

1. Sounds like your daughter IS demanding your attention at home because you are both full time working parents...i.e. she doesn't get your attention during the day. Make sure that you are spending some quality time with her in the evenings and on the weekends where it's just about her and what she wants to do. My kids LOVE "Daddy time" or "Mommy time" even if it's helping Dad fix stuff around the house and run to Home Depot.

2. Read the book Love and Logic - quick summary, HER choices lead to consequences. You are not a "mean parent" you are not "making her mad" etc. SHE has the ability to make choices that affect the outcome. You, as her parent, will enforce consequence to her behaviors, both positive and negative. Yes, a little "deep" for a 3 1/2 yr old, but start NOW.

3. You and your husband need to have a united front - NEVER argue or change answers in front of her. Discuss things after, out of her earshot. Whoever starts handling her, ENDS handling her. Even if you disagree with how your husband is handling a situation, support him, follow through with his approach until the issue is over. This teaches your daughter that her parents are a team and she can't change what they say or do.

4. Make a little, easy chart that lists "consequences" for some of the biggest issues - talking back, getting out of bed, tantrums, etc. Follow through on them EVERY TIME. Tell her, "I'm sorry you made the choice to start screaming and throwing a tantrum, that means that you will be going to bed 3 minutes earlier tonight or you have to sit on the step for 3 minutes," whatever you decide the consequence is. Have as many REWARDS for good behavior too! Kids this age love sticker charts.

5. Do NOT have discussions with a 3 year old DURING an argument. It IS because you asked her to. Enough said. She can think whatever she wants, but she still MUST DO what you asked. If not, she made the choice to not listen...consequence!

6. Make sure that after dinner, the house gets darker, quieter, tv is off, etc. We have a rule that when PJs are on, the whole house settles down. This is "relaxing time". Snuggle up and read with her on the couch, talk about her day (highs and lows), then go brush teeth and go potty and tuck her in. THAT'S IT. Repeat EVERY night. Kids thrive on routine.

7. Make sure she's going to bed no later than 7:30-8pm. Kids get overstimulated very easily. Then it's super hard to get them to stay down.

8. If she gets out of bed/her room/screams I like the "super nanny" approach of "Good night sweetheart, it's time for bed" as your walking her back into her room. Tuck her in and leave. The next time she comes out of her room, no talking, no attention, walk her back to her room and leave. Do this 100 times if necessary - IT DOES WORK! It teaches her that no matter what she does, she will not get anymore attention and she will give up. You must stick with it EVERY time though. No yelling at her, no discussions or laying down with her or letting her into your bed - all you're teaching her then is that she CAN control this situation and get what she wants. (Note: She doesn't have to be in her bed, but she does have to stay in her room. Who cares if she falls asleep on the floor?)

My kids know, "Mom says 'Goodnight' and that's IT." I give them plenty of love, attention and hugs before bedtime. After bedtime, it's MY time. I do not play games, I do not give extra cups of water, etc. Of course there are always exceptions, like when someone's sick, but generally speaking, I do not tolerate "drama" at bedtime. For us, the consequence is earlier bedtime the next night, which usually also means missing out on some bedtime story time too then. I remind them, it's your behavior last night that means you have to go to bed earlier tonight.

Let us know how it goes!!!

Children who push to such extremes are looking for boundaries. She will continue to push until she pushes up against a boundary that doesn't give way! Children feel secure with boundaries - without them they are at a loss.

So, what I think your little one is crying out for are boundaries that do not give way! Boundaries that are strong enough to contain her! This is where she will find her security. It's up to you to give it to her.

So, I would start right away with the boundaries.

First, I would put a stop to the standing in the bathroom while she goes. Help her with the light and getting onto the toilet if she needs it, then you're done. Walk away. If she follows you around with pants at ankles, ignore her. Continue on with what you are doing. I know this is easier said than done and believe me I have a picture in my head of this extremely cute 2 year old hanging onto your pant leg screaming wildly while you try to fix dinner. Got it. But there is no easy fix. This is now ingrained in her and you will have to do the hard stuff before it gets any easier. If she gets too out of control, simply pick her up, deposit her into her room and close the door. Don't speak to her; don't let her sense that you are about to lose it (I know I would be). Just very matter of factly place her in her room. I also agree with Abbie H about a well-placed,. well-timed swat on the butt. It will definitely get her attention!

As for the coming into your bed, the only way to stop that is to consistently put her back in her bed. If you are too tired to do so after 3 a.m. she will continue to come in, eventually it will be after 3 a.m. and you'll let her stay. She doesn't know how to tell time, but she does know that at some point you give up and let her stay. She won't give up.

I don't have the titles of any books,. but I have heard on this site of books that deal with willful children. I suggest you get one and implement changes now!

Good luck to you and your hubby!

I think that some of it is putting on your parent hat and being firm. My DD had an utter meltdown over not being able to cut her own meat, but giving her a steak knife was Not An Option. Her options were to be removed from the table to go to her room so we could eat in peace, to be quiet and remain at the table, and/or to allow us to cut her meat. She did not get the option to scream and ruin our dinner. I count to 5 when she needs to quiet down. If she fails to do so, I pick her up and off she goes.

I think with the bathroom thing, let her scream. "DD, I am flossing. You do your business and I will help you wipe, but you do not get to order me when I am doing something else." If she continues to berate you, leave the room. If she is polite and asks, "Mom, will you help me?" then help her. Get her kandoo wipes and teach her to help herself. She might need some checking for a while, but encourage her to do it herself and don't listen to her freakouts.

With the bedroom thing, don't let a freak accident that happened to someone else hold you hostage. Give her a favorite stuffed animal, assure here there's nothing to fear, put on her nightlight and that's that. When she comes in, put her back as much as you need to and don't even feed the argument. "DD, there is nothing to fear. You can sleep with your light on, but you cannot sleep in our bed." Put her back and shut the door. Put her back and shut the door. When she doesn't get what she wants, she'll stop. I'm not saying don't assess her fears, but the demands and screaming need to stop. My DD (3) had a nightmare just last night and I held her on the couch for a few minutes while she dozed off again and I put her to bed. If you don't want her to join you at 3AM, then you must get up and put her back or it's just a matter of trying til you give in. Getting up at 3 is temporary, remind yourself that.

In addition, you might want to observe or talk to the daycare and find out how they handle her. It may be that they are no-nonsense and she just knows not to try it. Or maybe they use 1,2,3 Magic or something. If she misses you during the day and her control at night is to keep you in her sight, then deal with that. If she wants control, give her times she can control things. "DD, do you want to wear a skirt or pants tomorrow? Do you want beans or corn for dinner? DD, I need a helper, can you stir this for me while I measure the next thing?"

When you need to transition her to something else or you need to go away from her, give her a head's up. "DD, I am going downstairs to swap laundry. I will be back very soon. I can read you a book when I return if you are good. Please pick one out while I am gone."

I think there's also a book about the highly sensitive child or difficult child. Look on Amazon.

Stop arguing with her and giving in to her. It's your way or the highway---it's not a democracy.

I know it's wayyyyy easier for me to say that. But she is literally a dictator in your house, to you.

For her bedroom at night, set up a half door - go to Lowe's/Home Depot, and have them cut a standard door in half, and install that with the knobs only on your side. Put a potty chair in her room, with a mat underneath it (to catch "drips"), and a bottle of hand santitizer if you have worries about access to the toilet.

Regarding the toilet, she's a big girl. IF she wants help, she has to ask for it. If she doesn't ask, then no help. It's all about control. If she runs through the house chasing you, ignore her. Restate the obvious: if you want help getting wiped, you need to ask in a nice way, when you're done and you actually need help. It is her body and her responsbility, so help her own that.

There is a book that I've heard recommended, called "Parenting the strong-willed child". I would also suggest looking into parenting classes through your local Y or other local resources.

STOP GIVING IN TO HER!!!!!!! She is being a bully to her parents.

I would look into autisim. She has some behaviors. autisim.org

Look at her diet and take all MSG and yorgert out for a month or so-- if she is autistic MSG and yorgert will cause the meltdowns.

Your the boss mama! That's it no questions asked! If your worried about locking her in her room at night maybe try a video monitor so you can still watch her but she can't come out. Just stick to your guns no matter what and it wont last forever. She will eventually give up. Good luck and be strong!

Back to Basics Discipline by Janet Campbell Matson. I'm home alone with a 5, 4 and 2 year old who I have to take on EVERY errand. We have none of this. Not allowed. Period. Get the book, use it. We've never bothered with a single time out or any long drawn out power plays. My kids are happy, vibrant and well behaved, even the two more challenging ones. She should not succeed in screaming or dictating anything to you for more than three seconds before you have stopped her and taken over. Get the book and don't delay, she'll be a total nightmare by five if this continues. You have not nipped the most important habits from forming: Tantrums and disrespect (which probably started forming at age 12-18 months or at the very least 2). It will be hard to reprogram her, but it's not to late if you act NOW. NEVER EVER allow or ignore a tantrum if you want them to stop.

I teach my kids, that they have a CHOICE.
They can act like that even if they know it is obnoxious.
Or, they can act normal.... and know that they are just being normal... not being crappy just to get their way.
THEN, I teach them that: Because it is a choice, they can either have a "Nice" Mommy or a "Mean" Mommy, and it is their choice.
IF they act up and be "brats"... they know, the full spectrum of how strict (ie: "mean") I can be.
AND they know, that when they are being their normal nice selves, Mommy is very nice and very understanding.
So I tell them, it is THEIR choice. Because, I will NOT put up, with bratty behavior.
My kids are now 5 and 9... so they are totally astute in this perspective.

my daughter is strong willed also, so i understand. she is 5 now, but when she was younger i had a couple incidences at the park where i wanted to dig a hole in the sand box and crawl in. she still has her issues, but they have lessened. i would recommend a developmental psych bc even if there is no diag they seem to have to best suggestions and insight on how to manage childrens behavoir. there is a book alot of people i know are reading right now and its called The Explosive Child, i am going to read it when my friends done with it. hang in there mama, it does get better!

She can only do what you allow her to do. Children need boundaries, stop allowing her to control you and set them. You've been given some excellent advice that hopefully you will find helpful.

Okay this is a totally different answer than the others you have already, but a friend told me about his 'allergy' this weekend, and it may be an answer to you, may not be:
- My friend (24 yr old male) said that when in middle school or high school, he realized he was super-angry a lot and had a hard time controlling his mouth and attitude. A dr recommended he write down what he eats and see if there is a pattern with his anger. Come to find out that every time he ate red licorice he would get these fits of rage. So he now reads labels and avoids all foods with "RED DYE #5" in them. Strange sounding to us, but the doctor said it was totally feasible that dyes can have different effects on different people.

In your case - it's worth a try to see what foods in her diet may affect her behavior (I do find that my son gets a bit irate every time he's eaten Oreos. We avoid those at all costs).

let her sleep with you, its not that big of a deal. pick your battle with things that matter- manners and whats right and wrong. i may be very liberal but i have raised three very well behaved, polite, independent children. 3-4 is a hard age (they are trying to establish their own self-hood but still depend on their mom and dads comfort and support. all of my kids slept with us until they were ready to sleep in their own beds, and they are normal functioning people :o) it seems like she is still seeking that comfort from you (also maybe because she is seeking your attention because shes in daycare full time) perhaps part-time would be better for your family until she goes to school? as for wiping, i would wipe her behind for her until she is old enough to do a proper job (until shes in school) i think i side on her with that one- it is messy and dangerous if she gets it in her hand and happens to touch her mouth with that hand. keep plugging along, dont get frustrated or else she will also. bring out your inner buddha! you dont want to teach her the wrong way to react to a frustrating situation....

Sorry for the late response, you don't get as much computer time with screaming kids, do you?

I am also in my forties and have a 3 1/2 yo and a 2 yo. They are both very strong-willed. Here are my tactics:

I try to always stay on the positive, I try and reward good/desired behavior with praise and extra book time, etc.

When my 3 yo recently went through a phase of the same deal with the bathroom, I bribed and it has worked beatifully. He needs to be in control. So with all the Christmas candy around the house, I said he could have a piece of candy if he did everything in the bathroom by himself. After a week or so I upped it to a 'pile' of m&m's or a smarties if I didn't have to be in the bathroom with him. What a joy it was to have him push me out of the bathroom so he could get all his candy. And now that it has been a month or so, he is forgetting to ask for the candy and does most of it on his own. He still has more demanding days and I truly think he is just feeling insecure. I think the independent ones can be more insecure so I try not to be hard on him and have a lot of 'time-ins'.

The time-ins is from Harvey Karp's 'the happiest toddler on the block' I really liked this book for it's approach, a couple of the things I thought were a bit silly. In general it teaches to stay positive and most importantly validate their feelings over and over til they are calm.

Good luck, they say it starts to get easier when they are 4. I know I am a tired sometimes cranky older mom after a long day and while I treasure every moment I look forward to easy 4's!

You've had lots of advice so far, so I'll keep mine to what has worked for us. I really recommend the books "Taming Your Spirited Child" and also "The Everything Parent's Guide to the Strong-Willed Child." I have a read A LOT of parenting books, and I found a lot of good advice in those two in particular.

Re: wiping, I know that you said that your daughter started out wiping her own #2 but now she wants you to do it for her. My son was the same way. And I would suggest that maybe this is not a battle that is worth choosing at this time. It is seriously two seconds out of your day to do this for her, especially if you and she aren't confident that she is going to do a good enough job herself anyway. I know you are probably over it - I know I was - but the consequences of her doing a poor job of this herself is much worse. She's not even 4. My son didn't learn to wipe himself until he was closer to 5, and that is entirely in keeping with a lot of other children we know.

The other thing that strikes me about your post is that it's mostly about how certain punishments don't work. Have you tried more positive reinforcements? Stickers for every time she is able to use the potty by herself or get through the night by herself. Personally, I would much rather wipe her than stay with her the entire time she's in the bathroom. Maybe you can make a deal with her: you will wipe her if you don't have to stay with her anymore. Stuff like that.

I personally don't let my children scream at or argue with me. I will make them go to their room if they are throwing a fit. I don't need to deal with that. I don't want to make light of the tragedy of children dying, but I honestly have never heard of a child dying in the middle of a tantrum. You've heard of more than one person this has happened to?? Fluke bad things happen all the time, and there is nothing you can do about them. But I sincerely doubt your daughter will die in the middle of a tantrum if you leave her unattended for a few minutes. If this is something that is likely to happen, isn't it better to stop the tantrums before they start rather than hover over her while she throws them?

Good luck to you. My son was very much like your daughter at that age. It does get better.

Wow I can see you already have a lot of answers. We have a similar extreme child, who can hold it together all day at daycare but did not sleep well at night and would get stuck in melt down mode at the drop of the hat.
Please consider elimintating all petro-chemicals from your child's diet. It is hard to do, they are in many food popular with kids but we have seen such a change! He is still is passionate self but, just not so...extreme. My mom had him this weekend and she was amazed at the difference.
So the list of avoids are : Artificial food coloring-check lables-in many things you would not expect! Artificial flavor-very hard to avoid but just limiting them has helped and the one that has made the BIGGEST difference for us is the preservatives: BHT TBHQ and BTA. He is like a new kid, but if we slip up and give him something with these in it, he is back to being EXTREME. The www.feingold.org website has been helpful. Also, the Yale child study center has Dr Kazdin- he has been on the today show, etc. He has a book, I can't remember the title, but it is on amazon. Using his methods, along with the diet change has been a big help.
PS To the MOM WHO SAID THAT BECAUSE THE CHILD BEHAVES AT DAYCARE NO DIET WILL HELP- not true ! If your child is not consuming the foods that set them off, they will not act out at daycare. For my son, he always had difficult nights because of the snacks daycare was serving in the afternoon. Once we got him off of those, we saw a HUGE change

You do need to pick your battles. And the things she is doing that are unacceptable you both need to be firm and strong in how you handle it. Pick one thing to correct at a time and focus on that one thing. As far as the potty issue. when she is not in the bathroom, explain to her that potty time is private time, that you or your husband will gladly come help her wiping, but you will not stay with her when she is going. Tell her just like mommy and daddy have bathroom private time so does she. Also say that you would rather play a game or watch a favorite TV show with her, she may only be looking for a little more positive attention. Plan time as a family and as her with mom and dad each day this to may help. good luck