Screaming Child - Minnetonka,MN

I don't know if this will help or not. when my oldest was young and threw temper tantrums I used to ask him if he was done yet? if he would say no I would say please continue. it didn't last long it got boring cause he couldn't get a rise out of me. and still never got his way. worth a possible try if all else fails. (but he never did it in public I would do this at home and it never came out in public)

Ignoring it doesn't always help, especially since she is proving it's not working... but it is better than giving in, so you are on the right track!!

Lots of really great discipline and parenting techniques that talk about shaping the behavior of the child to avert these types of situations in the first place:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316779040/carroll...

In the meantime, here are some of his articles online that can be helpful:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/t060100.asp

I have no ideas, but will be reading with interest. I have a daughter that's three and she's been a screamer since she was born. (I have the pictures of her first bath -- she was purple from screaming so much.) We send her to her room and she screams LOUDER. I have two other kids - and have NO discipline issues with them. No screaming, no tantrums. Just our daughter runs me ragged.

I just wanted you to know - I completely sympathize. I hope you get some suggestions that help.

You're not alone, and it's no reflection on your parenting.

Well, my answer comes from my pediatrician 13 years ago. I am not telling you to try it nor do I condone it. It's just something to throw out there with all the other stuff.

My son misbehaved EVERYWHERE we went. He fussed, yelled, tried to climb over everything, stripped naked, ran away from me (WHILE screaming and stripping naked down the aisle of home depot AND the post office AND target.) It was a nightmare. How can you ignore a naked toddler screaming and crying in the aisle. I left every place I went crying and feeling like I had failed as a parent. I asked my pediatrician what to do, and he was a well-respected and well-known doctor in the Chicago-area. He told me at the back of the neck, the nape of the hairline -- take a little hair and give it a tug when he starts doing this in public. It's more of a shock-factor, get-his-attention type of thing. I've never spanked my kids, nor did I believe in being a bully mommy. BUT, I did it a couple of times -- got his attention -- gave him the I-mean-business look -- and he stopped. I think when kids reach a point of no return in the tantrum department, sometimes there's nothing you can do to grab their attention and turn them back to reality. This did the job -- at least for my kid.
(I also limited my time in public areas because I realized his attention span couldn't take a major trip through target.)

It didn't cause him any life-long trauma. In fact, he's 15 -- a straight A student, incredibly bright, still full of energy, has a great sense of humor and I'm a proud M..

Yes, that is what is mostly done to stop it.
Over time, she will learn that her screaming will not work.
So, you have to be consistent.

Also, does she talk yet? Is she verbal?
Teach her how to express herself, with words... and teach her the words for her feelings... happy/sad/grumpy/frustrated etc. This will, in the long term, go a long way, it creating an articulate child, who can discern themselves and tell you how they feel.

Next, when theses things happens, is she (a) hungry? (b) tired? Or both? These things REALLY can make a child super irritated... overall.

When my kids were young for example, I did not plan my errands/outings with them when they were tired or hungry. Once they napped or was fed, THEN we went out and I did my errands and running around.

When she screams... yes, ignore it. Tell her in a calm voice "no yelling..." or whisper to her and ask her to do that same.

It will take LOTS of repetition... but if you don't give in, she will learn that.
But then praise her when she does comply or stops screaming. I don't mean giving her a treat/reward, but just a verbal praise and hug.
Keep in mind, that if you use treats/rewards to stop her "bad" behavior, then over time, a child, any child, will then EXPECT a treat and reward for ANY little "good" deed they do. Then once they get it, they will go back to their naughty behavior.

She probably screams when at the store because she wants to be loose and not strapped in the cart. So, maybe, teach how that she has to hold your hand, when in a store??? Or, hang onto the cart with one hand, while walking along it? That is what we do with my son.

Or maybe, she just gets too overstimulated, when at the store? Some kids are like that.

all the best,
Susan

Hi Carrie-

I've been working with toddlers for more than 16 years, and today I'm a parent coach, specializing in the toddler years.

The reason your daughter is screaming is because she does not know how to communicate her feelings. In the past, if she cried (screamed), her needs were met. Now when her needs/wants are not met, she screams.

Here is what I suggest:

1) Anticipate her needs. If you can guess what she is thinking, wanting or needing you can talk to her about the need, and either meet it or tell her why she cannot have it. "I see the teddy bear, it's a pretty teddy bear, but the bear must stay here, so it's time to say bye bye to the bear."
2) Talk to your daughter, and let her know what's going on. Even young toddlers can understand what you're saying, so talk to her. Imagine you're being dragged from here to there & not able to look at what you want to & not being listened to when you try to talk. You'd be upset too
3) Give your child words. Toddlers do not have a large vocabulary, so when they want to communicate, the get frusterated but the inability. So, give your child the words. "I see you do not want to sit in the cart. Is that correct? It's the rules that you sit in the cart. It would help me if you would hold the list and help me find the _______."
4) Give your child choices. Toddlers react best when they have choices, but make the choices things you want. "Do you want to hold Mommy's hand or Daddy's?"

If you ignore your daughter's screaming, it will only get worse. Keep in mind her screaming is her way of trying to communicate.

Best of luck!

R. Magby

I wanted to second or uphold the woman who posted about her daughter being a screamer (an adult now) and they discovered she had a sensory integration problem (SPD).

So did my daughter. We didn't discover she had the problem until she was 5 years old. So we had to endure the screaming and tantrums and running away and crying and all that other jazz until we finally discovered what her issue/problem was. And then it isn't a quick fix method; it takes a lot of work and discipline. She is now 10 and we still work on issues every single day. But she's getting better, and growing up helps with the issues. As well as the fact that she's finally old enough to talk to us and work through those issues with us.

The main problem (other than the unknown sensory issue) we had when our daughter was young was the fact that due to numerous ear infections she wasn't able to hear and/or talk well. She entered Speech through the school district when she was three years old. Up until that point, it was pretty much a guess as to what she said or what she wanted, which would result in massive meltdowns because she couldn't get her wants and needs across to us. How is your daughter's hearing and her ability to communicate? The daycare taught the kids a few words in sign language, and those few words were life savers for us. Of course, we didn't know at first that was what our daughter was doing until daycare enlightened us, but just having a few signs made a world of difference.

Our daughter is now 10, as I said, and we hope Speech this fall (5th grade) will be her last year (fingers crossed). Looking back now, with everything that I know about Sensory Processing Disorder, so many things that just blew our mind when she was little make so much sense now.

We did A LOT of driving around to get our daughter to nap and/or to fall asleep. Did a lot of scenic driving, as a matter of fact.

We have to talk about things ahead of time, to include what we're going to do when we're out and about as well as discussing our eating out options and, if something comes up last minute, we need to discuss that with her as well. She gets disinterested and tired easily (I'm assuming from the constant sensory barrage she endures), so we have to take that into account as well. We even, for a while, had to stop taking her shopping with us when she was little. It was easier for one of us to stay home with her while the other one went shopping so that we didn't have to listen to the crying and screaming and the constant fighting. (She also used to hit her head with her hands and call herself stupid or bang her head against things. That terrified us; I started imagining Autism. Thank goodness, it's not any worse than SPD. Our daughter is very intelligent.).

It does get easier, but it gets a LOT easier if you know and are aware if your child has a sensory problem, because then you can figure out ways to deal with her problem areas. Our daughter started seeing a Childhood Specialist when she was 5; we had to wait a couple years while the post-doc went on to finish her degree, but since she's now a "doctor" and has her practice, our daughter is back to seeing her once a month. Her seeing someone to talk about her problems and issues and areas has been a lifesaver for our family.

Some good books to read:
**The Autism Spectrum: A Parents' Guide to Understanding and Helping Your Child, by Lorna Wing, MD
**Sensational Kids: Hope and Help for Children with Sensory Processing Disorder (SPD), by Lucy Jane Miller, PHD, OTR
**The Out-of-Sync Child: Recognizing and Coping with Sensory Processing Disorder, by Carol Stock Kranowitz, MA
**The Highly Sensitive Child: Helping Our Children Thrive When the World Overwhelms Them, by Elaine N. Aron, PhD

I have a few suggestions for you. I'm not sure what you've tried other than simply ignoring the screaming so if I'm suggesting things you've already tried, I apologize.
My first suggestion would be to let her know the rules before you go somewhere. So you mentioned you had trouble when you tried to put her in the cart at the grocery store. Tell her before you even leave the house that you're going to store, when you get there she needs to ride in the cart because you don't want her to get hurt, lost, whatever. Keep repeating that refrain and reminding her on the ride to the store. Remind her again as you get out of the car. Go get a cart and tell her she has to ride in it now just like you told her she would. Hopefully that warning about what is going to happen will either cause her to scream before you even leave the house, which gives you the option to not take her, or prevents the screaming altogether.
I liked your approach with what amounted to a timeout in the car. I wouldn't put up with that in the grocery store either. But if warning her beforehand doesn't work I would actually just leave her at home. Whether one of you does the shopping or you find a babysitter and you both go, not taking her may actually be easier on both of you in that scenario.
As for at home, I gather you've tried ignoring it and it doesn't work? She'll scream indefinitely even if you leave the room? Usually taking away the attention entirely will do the trick. But she also needs to understand that if she stops screaming you'll come back and play. My suggestion would be to discourage the behaviour with some sort of reprimand/punishment. I'm not a spanker (don't believe in it) so I typically use time outs or taking away of toys or whatever works for you.
Some kids just don't do well with grocery stores and restaurants or places where they have to be relatively quiet or sit still for an extended period of time. Usually the easiest and most stress free way to handle it is simply to leave them at home as much as possible, especially for major shopping trips and long dinners out, and wait until they are a little older and better able to sit still.
Hope that helps.

Our child has partial special needs and it took 9 years to really figure THAT out. (even with Specialists help, a top pediatrician, and more) so.
Sensory Intergration you should learn more about. We taught our child like the School did: Inside Voice and Outside Voice I think in kindergarten or first grade. What did we do about our childs screams?
We let her bring her favorite teddy bear to the store to hold.
One of use wore more than ear plugs, over the ear sound mufflers.
When the child acted up too much we took her out of the store. (not too often)
We went to stores that have special child's carts like Byerlys does that the chld can ride in the front like a driver which she loved to do with her bear.
We tried bribing her for good behavior. What another said about they will expect a treat later too is only partially true as as they grow older, rewards can change from treats to TV time, which show we watch, a movie etc. And they will grow out that too.
The child needs to learn about Mommy Time, Daddy Time and their time.
The father needs to figure out how and when he interacts with the child or children as that could be part of it.
When our child was really young the way we got her to go to bed was sticking in her carseat and driving around till she fell asleep.

How about a device to reduce your kids screaming? Like dogs have anti-barking devices now but how to make it even more "humane" for young kids. We just got a new puppy and learned about keeping dogs in balance vs out of balance. The same applies to kids: being in balance or out of it.
What doctors in some fields do is HOM or hand over mouth. Some will condone this but is does really work. It solved hearing the screaming and takes away the childs ablitiy to do it some. Is other words blocking the screaming as long it is not due to hunger, bathroom needs, health or other things but bing a "brat". (always getting things they want it) As long as they can breath through their nose. Our chlid was slightly delayed in reading but good at math. In other stores they have carts for kids to push along side the parent. When the child screams getting negative attention by the HOM method does help! They get a result but not the one they want. Good luck!
(also have / had a strong willed child, I think they are strong willed due to being different that others and need to figure it out why or get the help to do so in other words they strong will is really a cry for help! maybe) When we got the help for our child what she needed and still needs her strong will reduced and now other kids are stronger willed than her and she comments on them instead! To see a child in 4th grade being like that is really sad. I guess because they child did not learn better ways than doing anything and everything to get others attention and then blaming the others for giving her attention like they are the bad ones! If your lucky the others are not like this one and learn how bad it looks. Maybe put the child near another screaming child so they hear each other. :-) screaming maybe they will both stop! Also could give her a buzzer to use instead of screaming and eventually replace it with less and less bothersome things till they learn to verbalize their issues. And unfortunately it never ends...
It just morphs into another behavior. As you said any advice appreciated and you are absolutely right. Anything and everything that will help is needed.
http://babytoolkit.blogspot.com/2008/03/whispers-in-storm...

My 2 cents...? Have her screened for sensory integration issues. You mention it is being out in public and you mention the car seat. Both of these could indicate being overwhelmed by her environment, albeit in different ways. A 2-year-old is tough enough, but one with sensory issues is truly challenging. My little one just turned 3 and I did not realize the strain it has been on the whole family, including my marriage. We recently started working with a pediatric OT specializing in SI and it is, slowly, beginning to help. Once informed and educated, there are many things that can be done at home, etc. that help to ease her (and your) way. Good luck!!!! and hang in there :)

First off, inconvenient as it was, I think you did exactly the right thing. I've always tried to removed my daughter from the situation when she chooses to behave badly. Sometimes it just takes a few minutes for her to get it out of her system...sometimes we end up going home.

This is the age where you have to get creative. The best thing I found at this age was to find a way to give choices. I want to say that my three year old started wanting some control around 18-20 months. Getting dressed was a big issue (like almost overnight)...it was also the goal. I didn't really care if she wore the pink shirt or the purple shirt, but she did well with getting a choice. I got what I wanted and she didn't have a meltdown. Same thing with brushing her teeth...sometimes I give a choice of toothbrush, sometimes a choice of toothpaste.

Also, eliminate "okay" from the end of your sentences when you aren't actually asking a question. This was the hardest thing for me, but it also made the choices work a lot better. Some things are commands and some things are requests and some things are questions.

Depending on how much she is talking, try to avoid questions that have a yes/no answer.

Toddlers this age also REALLY like to help. My daughter loads the silverware in the dishwasher since before she was two. Grocery shopping went much easier when she chose the cart (even if they were all the same). I talk about colors and how many we are buying and let her choose between things. It keeps her involved, helps her learn something, and helps me keep my sanity.

I've had people "advise" me that I allow her to choose in too many things. But, for me, so long as the choices are healthy and she knows that the choice is only valid if she cooperates then we are all getting along better.

Now, I'll be honest, she is still a handful. Especially when she realized there were more choices than what I was giving her. Time out has always sent her into a FRENZY...after using Super Nanny "cool down" method consistently for WEEKS, she wasn't responding and I went back to what works for us. Choices and logical consequences.

Now that she is three, sometimes the choice is as simple as "do you want to listen to me...or do you want to go to time out?" and she usually straightens right up! If it escalates and we are having an outing, it is "do you want to mind me...or do you want to go home?" I have no problem with ending an outing pronto and taking her home.

You are on the right track and I think you already have a lot of good advice.
You need to determine if these tantrums and manipulative (she's screaming until she gets her way) or emotional reactions (she is frustrated/overwhelmed and doesn't know another way to tell you. Time out, whether it is a standard time out or just ignoring her, is appropriate when she is trying to manipulate you. But if she is feeling overwhelmed and doesn't know how to tell you time out does nothing to teach her how to handle her feelings.
I do not have experience with manipulative tantrums, except I know you have to have zero tolerance. I'm sure there are lots of online resources or other moms who know how to best combat these.
You need to identify what the trigger is for the tantrum. Is it the limitation of being trapped in the cart? Maybe you start out holding hands, she will tire and want to go in the cart eventually. Is it being overwhelmed by too much stimulus in the store? Bring a LeapPad or other toy to distract her and let her focus closer in. Is she frustrated because she has no control? Offer her choices, like other posters have suggested. Let her choose the reward she gets if she is good while you are preparing her for the trip. This can be as simple as one-on-one reading time when you get home to help decompress, or a teddy bear tea party at snack time, or yes even ice cream. Is she just in the seat too long and her tush is sore and she's tired and hungry? Shorter shopping trips at ideal times will give you a "clean slate" to diagnose the problem and find a solution.
Remember that it takes a month to firmly establish new habits, so you have to stick to your guns.
It sounds to me like she is screaming instead of using her words. Since she can't tell you what's wrong it's your job to figure it out.

ok I just read a few of the answers...and mine is different then what I read...Ignore the screaming. Go about what You need to do, People may stare...you may want to melt into the floor, but right now, your 21 month old is dictating what you do. My son has a lot of delays, mostly verbal, and he has had some seriously obnoxious tantrums. Even recently he sceamed all the way through Target, I ignored him, it is NOT an appropriate way to interact and tantrums do not get you what you want. The better you are at ignoring the tantrums the sooner she will realize that screaming does not work. Is there something that calms her? A blanket? A lovie, a stuffed animal? Maybe it is bribery...but Alex "works" for suckers, he ONLY gets them when he is in the cart being "nice" at Walmart when we grocery shop. This is his motivator. He has been in ABA therapy and occassionally they use a treat as motivation. I know how hard it is...if you go this route EVERYONE has to be on board...daddy, possible siblings etc, can't just have ( you) momma ignoring the screaming/tantrum. Lots of luck!
B.

Hmmm I understand a bit of what you are going through. I have a 30 month old who really likes things her way also. And she has also taken to screaming to express herself. I don 't have much in the way of solutions. I agree that you might find it easier to leave her at home with your husband and do the shopping alone. If I take my little one we keep it short and I expend a lot of extra keeping her entertained we go to a grocery store with a lot of the fun race car type carts - we talk it up before we go about how she'll get to go in a race car cart. Other than that yes if she is screaming we will leave where we are, or not go in the first place. We do try to ignore it, re-direct etc. We also try giving choices (both choices that I am ok with of course).

Good luck! I assume they grow out of it...

Rent the DVD "Happiest Toddler on the Block". It talks about how to avoid meltdowns, and how to respond when kids have a meltdown. Somewhat like what Rebecca said earlier, it focuses on helping the child express their feelings, and affirming their feelings. At this age, they are frustrated that they can't communicate but have strong opinions about everything.

And if you decide to keep your kid in the shopping cart so you can finish your shopping - I, for one, am not judging you. Anyone who has known a toddler knows what it's like. :)

Glad you asked this question. It's good to nip it in the bud now, before it gets worse.

Next time she starts screaming and there's no apparent immediate danger, calmly and quietly say, "People don't scream. When you're ready to use your words, you may join us." Then pick her up and put her in another room, shut the door, make no eye contact, and walk away. If she leaves the room, do the same thing. Keep doing it over and over until she gets the message.

Put in your earplugs if you have them. At first, the screaming may take a loooonng time (like up to an hour!) But if you--and your husband--are consistent, it should work. Screaming never killed anyone. I know it grates on your nerves. Just try to be patient and calm and model the behavior you want from her.

When she does use her words, praise the heck out of her! (just verbally, no treats.) When you see other kids use their words, smile and comment on their good behavior. Kids really want to please you, so if they see a compliment paid to another kid, they want a compliment too!

We had this problem when our daughter was younger (she's an adult now). What worked best (but took some time) was to talk to her ahead of time before you make the outing. Even a 21 month old can understand some things. Tell her your expectations ahead of time - she will riding in the grocery cart quietly, you will have a quiet time in the car riding home, etc. Remind her again just before you enter the grocery store. If she quietly gets in the cart without screaming, praise her a LOT for being such a big girl! Throughout the shopping experience, periodically praise her often when she is quiet and minding. Keep the initial shopping trips very short so that she can succeed. If she does well, reward her with a trip to the ice cream store, etc. There will be some setbacks but if you consistently prepare her ahead of time for what to expect and praise her a LOT when she isn't screaming, then reward her, she will eventually get it. When is isn't cooperative and screams, calmly tell her that if she doesn't stop (give her ONE warning) you will take her outside the store and she will have to sit on a bench, sidewalk, etc., until she is ready to stop screaming. Tell her to tell you when she is ready to go back in the store again without screaming. You have to be consistent about the punishment, also. Do it EVERY TIME she ignores your one warning. She has your undivided attention in the car and you are being punished by having to stay with her until your husband completes the shopping. Keep the punishment short by having her sit outside the store on a bench, etc., so that you can take her back in when she obeys.

I have a strong willed child too but he is only 9 months old...he does not want to be messed with and he will let you know if he doesn't like what you're doing to him! I don't know if this will work or not and you have maybe already tried it but I know I have heard that if you give your kids a job to do when you go grocery shopping that they may be more excited to go and she may be less focused on being placed in the cart and more focused on the important job that she has to do to help get the groceries! She could hold the coupons or the grocery list or you could have her help you find a certain item. Like, "You're job is to help mommy find the apples!" (or something along those lines) :) Just an idea! Good luck!

I know this would be embarrassing but its seems to be the only solution. Since taking her to the car and putting her in the seat is playtime for her. If she starts screaming while she is shopping and hates the cart seat, first if you and your husband are together, take 2 separte carts. If she starts screaming you take her out of the store but leave her in the cart, not to her carseat. If shes' screaming outside ignore her. Or take her to the car, strap her in her seat, if she screams all the way home fine. When you and your husband get home with the groceries, take the groceries inside and leave her in the vehicle just for about 3-5min. She will wonder what happened.
Either that or take her in the store, if she screams, she screams. I know its embarrassing but giving in to her is not the way either. If someone says something just say "she's having a bad day/night" and leave it at that. Its really nobody's business and in the process you are teaching her she can't have everything she wants "her way". I wish you luck and I do sincerly hope this works out for you. I would also start setting a distance between you and her at home so she is a little more independent, I don't mean all the time. It sounds like she's getting away with alot at home, getting her own way and its at home where it has to stop. Little ones' learn how to get to mommie and daddy and big brother real quick. Put a hault to it now before its to late, right now its not. Pls. don't think I'm being mean or arrogant but you have to start somewhere and I do honestly wish you all the best.

You are letting her control you by ignoring her screams. Don't ignore her...tell her to stop! When my three yo started to act this way at her age, we put a stop to it right away. You just have to be extremely firm, not mean, but firm. I'm not trying to sound better than you, but my son has never acted this way in stores, because he knows that it is unacceptable behavior. If you nip this now why she's young, she'll be an angel for you in the future(most of the time:) ). Ignoring her, is only giving her the ok, to behave this way.

My 20 month old is very much the same way right now. She is a much more demanding child than my first and sometimes I have a hard time just accepting that this is her personality and there isn't something wrong with her (don't get me wrong.. she has been checked by the Dr over and over because many times I have wondered.) If it makes you feel any better my little one gets mad and if she doesn't get her way she tends to stick her finger down her throat and throws up everywhere. :) She started this wonderful behavior at 6 months on her own. Turns out my hubby did the same thing. I understand that you cannot "just leave" sometimes and in those circumstances I usually just laugh at myself and smile at the people staring at me. I know this too will pass and things just get easier. ... at least till they are teenagers!