Rollercoaster Ride for a Marriage

Pride more often than not gets in the way in a marriage. One of you, I'll quote from Dr Phil, needs to be the hero in this relationship. Quit competing, you are both on the same team!

I would recommend that you read the book “What did you Expect?” by Paul David Tripp. It is an amazing book.

If you're in counseling (for 4 years?!) and nothing's changing, you might want to at least look into a legal separation, then decide how to proceed from there. I am all for keeping the family unit intact, but not under these kinds of conditions. I wish you all the best.

Find a NEW Counselor.
those 4 years of Counseling, has not helped.

Ultimately... you are both seflish/stubborn etc. (I am not saying this to be mean... but you asked if you both are being 'selfish.')
You KNOW what the problem is... but it is at a stalemate.

There has to be compromise... and a willingness to self-reflect... and then give-in at some point. That does not mean giving up yourself or your stance... it just means... compromising. And agreeing to disagree.
If both sides ALWAYS has to have their way... nothing will change. Meanwhile, your marriage and your child rearing... will always be suffering.

So of course, there is no sex. Both spouses are constantly in a "contest" with each other.
That is not what a relationship is.

Both sides... has to.... try and meet half way.
Until you can do that... nothing will change.
Not even a Therapist, can 'make' you... realize that or act upon it.

You both seem to be the SAME... in personality... and you can't stand each other. ?
And even if you were with someone else... you'd both be expecting the other person to give-in and 'change' for you. So, you would have the SAME problem... with any partner.
Vicious cycle....

all the best,
Susan

I agree with most of the ladies here that your counselor is obviously not working out, for whatever reason.

But wanted to add this - let's say you get a divorce. You'll completely devastate your child, and then if you both find new partners, you will have the exact same issues with them, but added in will be juggling your kid back and forth. So divorce would not help anything to be easier in your life.

Either both of you have a blind spot about yourself that you are not wanting to see, like you are both selfish, or a blind spot about just not getting each other, not understanding how to work out your troubles.

Is your counselor a female? If so, odds are that she does not understand men. Most counselors tend to be female and tend to go to universities with female professors where they teach from a female mindset in a feminist culture. So a lot of us women think that men are pigs for always wanting sex and that they should communicate with us like us and act all romantic all the time, have deep conversations with us, enjoy cooking and a good cry. Not knowing you or anything about you, have you gone in this direction?

Personally, our marriage was crappy for years until I was humble enough to see my own faults and until I read a book on how men tick/think.

My immediate thoughts are...you can want all you want but when do you give? I am not saying it has to be a give and take relationship, but you could compromise. Whats the problem with your sex life if you both want it? Thats a lot more then some couples experience (usually 1 partner totally doesn't want it). So if you both want it....why isn't it happening?
Same with your needs. Okay so you both have needs, neither of your needs are being met. Do you know his needs? Does he know yours? Do you try to meet his or him met yours? More then likely the lack of connection is because of the "needs" and "intimacy" issues, probably major lack of communication, and that you are both stubborn and argue and like you said most of the time you guys don't work it out. Who would want to feel connected to someone like that?
You are probably both feeling unappreciated and unloved. If you feel you have a room mate, he probably feels the same. Get a new counselor, one that doesn't take 4 years to see some results/improvements.
If you guys are really that competitive, I say you start a competition on who can satisfy the other mentally, emotionally and physically. Hey...just might work. =) Good Luck.

It does sound like neither of you are willing to give an inch to meet in the middle. Relationships are work, give and take, and figuring out what is best for you as a couple not just you as an individual. If neither of you are willing to give in then it's time to re-evaluate what you are truly looking for in a relationship.

If you both seem unhappy with the same things, then I do wonder what the issue really is. If you think that it's because you are both stubborn and neither of you is willing to bend, well guess what - marriage (like a lot of things in life) is about compromise. Sometimes you get your way - sometimes you let him have his way. You need to decide if what you are fighting about is really worth it. Sometimes I have to ask myself, "Do I want to be right, or do I want to be happy?" Sometimes being happy is not about being right all the time - it's learning to let things go in order to be on the same team.

There is a book I read sometime back, "A Grown Up Marriage" by Judith Viorst. I found it to be very helpful and would recommend checking it out. It's available on Amazon.com, with very positive reviews.

And if you are both unhappy about not having enough sex, then just have more sex! Just do it! Have someone take your son for the night and get a hotel room, or whatever. What's getting in the way?

Just a thought... For one week (or even just a few days), forget about your wants and your needs, and focus on HIS wants and needs. Try to be what he considers to be the "perfect" wife. I know it won't be easy. Maybe after he realizes that your willing to do, he'll meet you 1/2 way. Two of the most important things in marraige are communication and compromise.

Would someone please give in??? Maybe you guys need some draw cards for a kickoff party!!

You should probably give us more information. I've tried to think of how you and he could both want more sex and both of you not get more sex. Unless the zero in "to0" is not a typo and is really how you feel about sex. If he fails to get you to the big "O" and that's a problem, tell him and show him what you need to get there. (Sorry if that's TMI, but I was just trying to help. Like I said, "Give us more information".)

My wife and I are both very competitive. We each try and be the best at what we do. When we play games as a family we each try and win and so do our kids. When arguements over rules sometimes occur. I often give in or encourage others to "let it go" because , "I don't have any money bet on this game".

Brenda R. suggested the movie "Fireproof" and the book, "The Love Dare". Both of them are excellent. Also buy and read the book, "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands". Don't be put off by the title. I've never met any woman that felt neutral about the book. They either love it or hate it. It will teach women about men's feelings and why they act the way they do. It will teach men about women and why they act the way they do. My wife was surprised that I was NOT the only one that felt the way I did. I had been telling wife for years how I felt and she thought I was the only man that could possibly to feel that way.

If you have been to a marriage counselor for 4 years and are still having problems, change marriage counselors and each of you needs to quit being so self centered. You should be husband centered. Your husband needs to be wife centered. You put him and his needs first. He puts you and your needs first.

Aesop has a fable that talks about a man leadng a donkey loaded with firewood on a mountain trail. As they pass a dangerous turn in the trail next to a cliff falling off several hundred feet, the man pulls on the rope to help the donkey get around the turn in the trail. The donkey doesn't want to be pulled and so resists and starts to back up. The man fearing for the donkey's life pulls harder. The Donkey resists more and more. The donkey finally pulls hard enough and backs right over the cliff. It falls several hundred feet to its death. You and your husband should quit trying to be the donkey.

Good luck to you and yours.

Wow, that is a lot! I've gone through a similar thing recently. We both feel like we each are doing EVERYTHING and the other person is doing NOTHING. We are both overwhelmed. It took some examining but when I really thought about it, we have 2 things going for us. 1. We are still very attracted to each other-there is no wandering eye and we both want to be with each other. 2. It wasn't 'US' that was the problem. It was outside pressures that affected us as individuals and we naturally take it out on each other! Our challenges include but are not limited to deaths, finances (like everyone), having a child, moving and a few more things.

Here is my advice if you want to make it work.
1. Time. (Let me know if you already do this!) Set just 1 hour a week, turn the tv off, maybe get a fun treat from the market, like root beer float makings or a special treat for the 2 of you that your kid doesn't even get to sip! After the little one goes to bed ask Dad to turn it all off and focus & share a treat. Just 'catch up'. Since men are usually suspicious, lazy or not into new things in general approach it as 'a favor'. Or start with 'Hey I have a fun idea-let's make dessert!' Then just sit and look at each other & ask about his day. It should go from there.
2. ASK. It is so hard when you feel like you do all the work with the child. And I feel like my hubby does me a favor by watching his own son! I have grown so resentful but then I realized I haven't communicated what I need! He watches football too. I noticed I was asking in a snide way- like 'Since you got 4 hours to yourself today I want 4 hours to myself tomorrow.' That didn't work well. So now I say, hey-'What are you doing Thursday at 6pm? Will you be here to care for our child? I'd really like to go to the library.' Or get a girls night out! I have found that he isn't bright enough to pick up on the fact that I am NEVER alone so I have started to push 'Special Daddy Time' where they go for a walk or to the park, saying it's best for our kid when really it's best for me!

3. Outside help. It sounds like you have been hitting brick walls with this therapist. Drop them. IF you feel vulnerable not having that person try other methods of support and information. Use the time and money set aside for therapy for date nights! Try Dr. Oz's wife's book US by Lisa Oz. It is full of exercises meant to connect you. It allows you to talk to each other! Also the 5 love languages book. I haven't read it but the concept seems like I could apply it to my marriage. Life my husbands way of saying he loves me is by going to work-where as I see that as a given that has nothing to do with me! And for me to feel love I NEED quality time and attention from him. I think that is why I feel bad when I feel like football is stealing some of that when in reality he is totally clueless to that even being an issue!

4. Support. Do you have any other Mommy friends? Maybe join a play group or something. I know many people are private and don't talk about what goes on behind closed doors but if you are open, some of my best friends and best friends for my child have been made with a meetup.com mommy group.

I wish you luck. It is so hard. You are not alone in having so many strains on your relationship. I am still going over the bumps myself but I have tried to change my mindset and the way I communicate with my husband. I told him that we need to appreciate what the other one DOES as opposed to what they don't do! It has helped a lot. A few more thank yous, a few more random hugs. I have told him that I appreciate him so much for making me a mother! While it's been a struggle sometimes, it is awesome! good luck! Keep us posted!

p.s. I think if you are doing a few things he wants and appreciates you doing (even if you don't like them) and he does a few things you want and appreciate -- you will be more connected and have more respect for each other and the sex will correct itself!

This might sound very lame, but go purchase or rent the movie "Fireproof." Then, buy 2 copies of the book "The Love Dare."

Think about your marriage, pray about it, and work on it. You CAN make it work, but it will take a lot of work.

Change counselors already - 4 years and still no results? Either that or you are just not matched well. I think each of you should write a list of all the things you liked about each other in the beginning. Then try to find a way to bring one of those things back. Maybe alternate a "get your way tonight" trade-off, where you and he decide up front what you ideally would like to do one night and what would happen and you each get to have one of those nights? Maybe surprise him with tickets to his favorite concert or sports team and have a babysitter so you can have a date? I find that in a relationship you both have to be willing to give 100% and then you may end up with 50-50. If both parties are jealously demanding that they get "theirs" first, then you are not going to end up in a happy place.

From the brief details above I am wondering if it is just a matter of one of you making the first move to make things better. Maybe you are each too stubborn to give the other what they want. If you are also dissatisfied with your sex life, perhaps initiating something after your son is in bed is a good place to start. Maybe he will appreciate the effort and in return meet one or your needs! Perhaps you can schedule some couple time without your son where you do something you both used to enjoy together.

Also on the counseling front, if you haven't improved after 4 years of counseling, maybe you should look for a better counselor...

If you are commited to the marraige and making it work, stop being stubborn and worrying about who is 'giving in' to the other and do everything in your power to contribute to making it work. Maybe once your husband sees you trying he will try harder too and you can compete to see who can make the other the most happy :)

If you just can't find a way to re-connedt than the healthiest thing is to end it and move on.

Good marriages don't just happen, you need to make them happen and work at it each and every day. Every marriage has it's ups and downs none are perfect. In most you have a give and take that each have to work at. Yours seems you are both looking and longing for the exact same thing. I'm confused as to what the problem is if you both want sex, a connection and your needs to be meet that if you both give the other what they need you will each get what you need. You just have to take the first step in showing love and want and need for your husband and you will get back more then you would have ever thought possible. For one week wake up daily with the attitude what can I do today to make him happy and his life a little better. Really hug him and kiss him and look into his eyes. You need to get that loving feeling back. Look at the positive not negatives in situation. As an example my husband would text me from work if he knew I was having a hard time or not feeling well to see how my day was going. I told him once it really makes my day to hear from him so he did it daily. Some women would be upset that he only did it because they asked that it didnt come from them I am grateful that he is doing it because he wants to make my day and knows it make me happy. If he doesnt do it I am not going to get mad because I know he may be busy or forgot and thats ok because he is there for more more then not. Best of luck to you and will be wishing love and happiness in your marriage you both deserve it.

You say you both feel that your needs are not being met, but you've also been going to counseling for 4 yrs. Wow. That's a long time and a lot of money to not have gotten anything. Have you learned more about yourselves individually in that time? Anything that can help you better assess who you are and what's missing?

There's a great book called Soul Mate or Cell Mate by Jackie Woods (www.jackiewoods.org). In it she addresses the age old question of "Is there such a thing as a 'soul mate'." She suggests that there is not, and that we have to recognize who we are and what we want, and be willing to be that for ourselves before we can attract to us what we're looking for. She also suggests that one person cannot possibly fulfil your every need and that you have to be willing to expand your circle in order to find fulfillment. For example, if having fun is a big issue in the relationship, more than likely one of you has a bigger energy of Play than the other, then perhaps you can share the energy of Play in some areas (like bowling together twice a month), and the person who needs more can participate in other events like bowling once a week with a group, or joining a flag football team. For the energy of Communication, for example, you'd look at which of you has a bigger piece of the energy, look at all ways in which you communicate, look at how you might dismiss or misconstrue what he's communicating because you're looking for a particular form that fits with what you do and/or believe the norm is, etc. The latter applies to all energies because what you expect or hold as the norm for things like Abundance, Gratitude, Honor, Respect, Sincerity, Truth, Love...sometimes is not the same for the other person, and sometimes its true for you only because you might be so programmed to have an idealistic or romanticized perspective of the world that you fail to see reality.

The book also suggests that you try to recognize the real energy behind some needs we have. The need for more sex, for example, may translate to the need for deeper Intimacy, not just the physical act. The need for him to help with the dishes may be more about your need for Support in general, washing the dishes is only one form of that support.

And as for the sex, are you being creative and finding new places, times and ways to have sex? What about role playing and toys, and arranging meetings at random places, etc? Or actually scheduling a date if you can't seem to find the time?

It's easy to say it's time to move on but if you don't know enough about yourself to understand why your needs are not being met, then likely you'll encounter these problems again in a different package. If you're both so competitive, perhaps challenge yourselves to attack the problem from a different angle and dare yourselves to be different.

Marriage is about give and take. It sounds like you are both takers. Its not that YOU are being selfish-really it sounds like you BOTH are. Besides that though-it just doesn't sound like you are into eachother anymore. If you have been in counseling for 4 year and its not working-May be time to throw in the towel. Or try a new counselor. What was the attraction in the beginning anyhow and how long were you together before marriage and how old are you now? I would be curious to know.

if you need a kick in the pants, try reading Dr. Laura Schlessinger's books on marriage. You've got to be willing to sacrifice (for love) to truly gain from a marriage.

I am so sorry to hear you are going through this...It sounds like you need to change therapists! That would be the first thing...also, have you considered a trial separation? Maybe some time apart would be just what the dr ordered...?? I realize this is more difficult with a child, but the child feels the tension and unhappiness as well.

What really struck me is that you have been seeing the same person for help for 4 years and nothing has changed...do you both see this person together AND alone? It would seem that this would be important since as you said you are both very competitive ~ (as you said)

Wishing you the best with this, hope a new therapist can aid you in facilitating some real change in your relationship, so all 3 of you can have enjoy some true happiness.

Have you shown this to your husband? Maybe this will start a
good conversation.

Are either of you in love with someone else? It's hard to give yourself fully to a relationship if you are thinking would-have-should-have-could-have.

Your description of your relationship sounds like there is hope. I would try some of the things the others have posted. It doesn't seem like it is time to give up yet. Also, if it doesn't disrupt your child's bedtime routine too much, try taking an evening family walk... put your son in the stroller and walk and talk about your plans, dreams, goals together. There's something soothing about a nighttime walk. It's a better setting to air your thoughts than being cooped up in the house and struggling to make yourself heard without waking your child.

Best of luck to you!

Without reading any of the other responses (so pardon me if my comments are duplicates), here are my first thoughts: You are both are complaining a lot - what are either of you doing in the way of resolving any of these issues? Lack of sex? Plan a night to be together & then both of you work hard to get your child in bed, leave all the chores til tomorrow & spend some intimate time together. Needs not being met? Perhaps neither of you have expressed exactly what your needs are (in a healthy way, not yelling it at each other). Do so and then work toward meeting those needs one at a time. Marriage takes work. It's not easy, and it will never be perfect. You have to make the committment to one another that you are really going to try. THEN you BOTH also have to make the committment to SEE that the other one is trying. Instead of each of you focusing on what the other one is not doing, focus on what is being given by the other person and what each of you is giving to the other one. No, you didn't get married to have a roommate (I have heard this so many times & it is heart breaking!), so STOP being a roommate, stop allowing your husband to feel like and be a roommate. Be a wife, and lead your husband toward being a really great husband. Most of the people I know did not have super role models when it came to marriage. If you have an ideal in mind, help your husband understand it and work toward it, together. Stop waiting around; be a leader in this situation. Peace to you and your husband. PS Perhaps you should let him know how he can really help you; remember that he cannot read your mind. B.

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time together. It's important to fight for the good things in life, but I do wonder what the point is of attending four years of counseling. At some point both of you should have learned something and started applying it. Not kidding when I say that maybe you should be competitive about who treats the other better. From my admittedly long distance vantage point, it sounds like you're out-whining each other. If I were in your shoes (and believe me, your shoes look rather familiar, unfortunately), I'd start working on becoming the type of spouse *I'd* want to be married to. Chances are good, you're not (and no, I'm not there yet either... but I'm a lot closer than I was four years ago). If you take the steps to change yourself for the better, you'll likely also change how you're treating him. Then he may feel more amenable to becoming the type of spouse *he'd* like to be married to, thereby treating you and himself better, too.

Hugs and best wishes,

S. :+)

Ack and egad! I just saw your updated information, which changes my answer. I'd still stick with what I said in general, because it's the basic golden rule. I have a lot of stuff going through my head as I contemplate the new info.

The more generous part of me says maybe you should have him evaluated for depression.

The less generous part of me says maybe he needs to realize this is not 1950, but if he wants to pretend like it is, then he needs to do a better job of being the breadwinner so you're not left doing all of "your" job while also doing part of his.

Also, you're going to have to set aside time for yourself. Make it on a Sunday when he's got all those football games to watch. He can teach your son about the game while you get out. And if you've got studying to do that's keeping you from making plans, then make plans to study elsewhere. Just get out for a while.

Seriously, best wishes.

S.

Sooooo, you've been in counseling for 4 years... Basically, since you were pregnant and the 3 years since your son's birth. I'm not sure I understand how both of you want more sex/intimacy but don't do it...? You both want to connect more, but communication is strained? You either both want it or one person is actually using sex as a reward if the other person does something (as in "I want to have sex but only if certain conditions are met beforehand"-- example, help with housework, help childcare, romance/attention beforehand, etc.). The second scenario will destroy a marriage...

I'm not sure what your issues are, however 4 years of counseling without results seem like a waste of money. Maybe you need a new counselor? Or maybe it's not working because each of you have already given up? Of you both want to stay married, then both of you need to change your behavior... Otherwise, you should redirect your counseling time and money towards an amicable divorce.

What has your therapist done or suggested to you both to meet eachothers needs emotionally and sexually? If you are both feeling the same thing, it seems like you should be able to find some common ground and get that "old feeling" of whatever brought you together in the first place back. Any relationship is work, whether it's a marriage, friendship, or parental one. Every day, you have to work at it. Can you figure out a "schedule" (though it will seem contrived at first) for sex and time for each of you to do your own thing, as a way to start meeting some of those needs? Good luck, and I say that your tenacity (more positive than stubborn!) will be to your advantage if you both want to stay in the marriage, which I think would be the best thing for your son.